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Balschoiw

Spyjobs

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Hi !

Just wondered if anybody else of you has

ever been asked to do such "spyjobs" ?

It happened to me whilst logical training

in a german BW camp. A man came up to

me and asked me in flowered words if I

had interests to join BND , the german secret

service. WOW. Was really shocked but at all

that I heard about BND was not good.

So I chose not to do it. Whatever...

Has this happened to anyone else here ?

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"Spy job?" biggrin.gif

You mean intelligence.

The last months of my tour of duty I was assigned (against my will at the time) to MUST (Militära underrättelse- och säkerhetstjänsten) - Swedish military intelligence as an analyst dealing with submarine intel.

When I was in Kosovo I was with the department for international deployment intelligence. It was a cooperation with several other countries in KFOR to produce an intelligence estimate of the Yugoslav military capabilities before and after Operation Allied Force (the NATO attack on Serbia).

My current placement (in the reserves) is back with an amphibious unit. The details are I'm afraid classified smile.gif

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Nov. 12 2002,17:33)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">"Spy job?" biggrin.gif

You mean intelligence.

The last months of my tour of duty I was assigned (against my will at the time) to MUST (Militära underrättelse- och säkerhetstjänsten) - Swedish military intelligence as an analyst dealing with submarine intel.

When I was in Kosovo I was with the department for international deployment intelligence. It was a cooperation with several other countries in KFOR to produce an intelligence estimate of the Yugoslav military capabilities before and after Operation Allied Force (the NATO attack on Serbia).

My current placement (in the reserves) is back with an amphibious unit. The details are I'm afraid classified smile.gif<span id='postcolor'>

Too bad for them since the concept of operational security obviously eludes you.

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Othin @ Nov. 13 2002,02:40)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Too bad for them since the concept of operational security obviously eludes you.<span id='postcolor'>

Not really. These are all public records. smile.gif

Nothing classifed here.

Do you really think that I would say something on an internet forum that I am not allowed to by national security laws?

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Nov. 12 2002,20:51)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Do you really think that I would say something on an internet forum that I am not allowed to by national security laws?<span id='postcolor'>

Yes

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (advocatexxx @ Nov. 13 2002,03:27)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Nov. 12 2002,20:51)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Do you really think that I would say something on an internet forum that I am not allowed to by national security laws?<span id='postcolor'>

Yes<span id='postcolor'>

Then I can advise you not to pursue a career in intelligence. For all you know I could be a 12 year old girl from Kansas smile.gif

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Nov. 12 2002,21:35)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (advocatexxx @ Nov. 13 2002,03:27)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Nov. 12 2002,20:51)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Do you really think that I would say something on an internet forum that I am not allowed to by national security laws?<span id='postcolor'>

Yes<span id='postcolor'>

Then I can advise you not to pursue a career in intelligence. For all you know I could be a 12 year old girl from Kansas smile.gif<span id='postcolor'>

LOL, seriously people, get a gip!

No one is going to tell you any classified national information on a forum. You have to realize some people would have to be tortured to get the info out (drastic eh). And when you get some sort of secret clearance you treat everything on a "need to know" basis, even with people of equal or higher clearance than yourself.

So, Denoir spilling secret national info here: not very likely biggrin.gif

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Nov. 12 2002,04:35)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (advocatexxx @ Nov. 13 2002,03:27)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Nov. 12 2002,20:51)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Do you really think that I would say something on an internet forum that I am not allowed to by national security laws?<span id='postcolor'>

Yes<span id='postcolor'>

Then I can advise you not to pursue a career in intelligence. For all you know I could be a 12 year old girl from Kansas smile.gif<span id='postcolor'>

I thought you just turned 11confused.gif

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (advocatexxx @ Nov. 13 2002,03:27)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Nov. 12 2002,20:51)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Do you really think that I would say something on an internet forum that I am not allowed to by national security laws?<span id='postcolor'>

Yes<span id='postcolor'>

we're talking about military intelligence , not general stupidity

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actually the west german BND had a secret unit. this unit's job was to stay behind the enemy lines and to send radio transmissions about the enemy's actions in case of war and an attack of warsaw pact forces on GFR territory. but the east german radio intelligence found a way to intercept some transmissions and they almost menaged to find out the identity of an agent. they already knew his last name and the place where he lived when the GDR suddenly collapsed in 1989. biggrin.gif the agents were just average civilians in positions that couldn't be replaced by others in case of a soviet occupation. jobs like engineers who had to maintain important bridges (don't know the proper english word for that smile.gif ).

i first heard about this yesternday night on TV. biggrin.gif

personaly i wasn't asked to be a spy. tounge.gif

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I think what is interesting on the BND is that it first came to exist in 1956. After WW2 the allies used the "Gehlen Organization" which was made up of SS officers who were experts on anti-Soviet intelligence operations.

In '56 the BND was created but General Reinhard Gehlen was still in charge of it until '68 (or '69, I don't remember).

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Nov. 13 2002,04:35)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">For all you know I could be a 12 year old girl from Kansas smile.gif<span id='postcolor'>

I simply adore your slippers!

18.jpg

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Guest BratZ

I was in the US Military and during basic training you get drilled about the fact that you might get asked by the enemy.

I wasn't in any top level operations but I would never give out information that could hurt my country.Who cares if they paid me a million dollars, what good would it be because if our govt had any thoughts about or found out I would be sitting in the slammer even if it was as small as explaining how a dime was made.

Especially after 9-11 , even giving someone a ride could hurt thousands of people In our country.I wouldn't want that on my shoulders.If ever asked please do whatever you can to mess up their intentions.

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"> I would never give out information that could hurt my country.<span id='postcolor'>

Can you judge what is important for another nation to know about your country ? I doubt that. Most of the things intel is trying to get do not appear as obvious "spying". They do it puzzleways. They collect a big piece of info from different sources and combine them to get a complete pic afterwards. So they wont come up to you and ask you for details on B2 bombers. They will ask you if you ever had been near one. Nothing else. If you say yes they have to dive into your troop history and find out where these B2´s are. Get the idea ? It´s often not obvious what people want to know from you.

Also military interrogations differ from the thread title a lot.

You would tell all that you know plus give me your credit card when I ´d be ready with you with "interrogation". Every man has it´s breaking point, how well trained he is anyway.

EDIT: Hurray 300 posts biggrin.gif

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Balschoiw @ Nov. 13 2002,09:43)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"> I would never give out information that could hurt my country.<span id='postcolor'>

Can you judge what is important for another nation to know about your country ? I doubt that. Most of the things intel is trying to get do not appear as obvious "spying". They do it puzzleways. They collect a big piece of info from different sources and combine them to get a complete pic afterwards. So they wont come up to you and ask you for details on B2 bombers. They will ask you if you ever had been near one. Nothing else. If you say yes they have to dive into your troop history and find out where these B2´s are. Get the idea ? It´s often not obvious what people want to know from you.

Also military interrogations differ from the thread title a lot.

You would tell all that you know plus give me your credit card when I ´d be ready with you with "interrogation". Every man has it´s breaking point, how well trained he is anyway.

EDIT: Hurray 300 posts biggrin.gif<span id='postcolor'>

Yes exactly, also if you are exposed to information from different security levels you might not be aware of what is actually secret. Rule of thumb is if you are not sure treat it as top secret info. Feel that a question is a tiny bit odd, then say you are not sure or can't remember. smile.gif

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The nature of secret information has changed a lot since the cold war. What people were in jail or got shot for you can now read on the internet. Say for the example with the B2 bomber: its locations are not classified. Its performance is largely public information.

The secrets that are currently more and more important are industrial and commercial secrets. The few real military secrets left are exact systems performance, signal intelligence etc.

What millitary intelligence deals most with is operational intelligence. That's not secret spy stuff but battle field information. Coordinating information from signals, satellite imagery, reconnaissance etc. That information is aquired in realtime and does not exist before the actual battle evolves. So any attmpt of interrogation before are futile because the information does not exist yet.

If you want to get solid information about somebody, you don't snatch an intelligence officer. They know shit except for how to process and aquire data. They don't know anything about the secrets of the own military (well, depends a bit on position, rank and job).

If you want the enemy's radar performance then you snatch and interrogate a radar operator. Gives you much more information.

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (bn880 @ Nov. 13 2002,04:45)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Nov. 12 2002,21:35)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (advocatexxx @ Nov. 13 2002,03:27)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Nov. 12 2002,20:51)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Do you really think that I would say something on an internet forum that I am not allowed to by national security laws?<span id='postcolor'>

Yes<span id='postcolor'>

Then I can advise you not to pursue a career in intelligence. For all you know I could be a 12 year old girl from Kansas smile.gif<span id='postcolor'>

LOL, seriously people, get a gip!

No one is going to tell you any classified national information on a forum.  You have to realize some people would have to be tortured to get the info out (drastic eh).  And when you get some sort of secret clearance you treat everything on a "need to know" basis, even with people of equal or higher clearance than yourself.

So, Denoir spilling secret national info here: not very likely  biggrin.gif<span id='postcolor'>

OR an 18 year old blond swedish chick!!!!!!! smile.gif I'm still looking for one of those tounge.gif

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (supah @ Nov. 13 2002,12:43)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">OR an 18 year old blond swedish chick!!!!!!! smile.gif I'm still looking for one of those tounge.gif<span id='postcolor'>

Oh man, I thought you were an 18 year old Swedish "chick". tounge.gif You would have to die your hair, I'm not too eager for blonds.

To unspam this, what Denoir says is right, snatching a person like that is mostly useles, however if you can get them to work for you and attempt to gather some information, they would be useful. smile.gif

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (bn880 @ Nov. 13 2002,19:09)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">To unspam this, what Denoir says is right, snatching a person like that is mostly useles, however if you can get them to work for you and attempt to gather some information, they would be useful.  smile.gif<span id='postcolor'>

Yepp, and you can't get somebody to your side with physical torture. And during peace time you can't even snatch anybody if you wanted to.

So what they try to do is to buy off (money or ideology) high ranking officers that have access to classified material.

I want to point out one thing more: The concept of spying and intelligence is very twisted in the public mind. The espionage/contra espionage is a very very small part of intelligence agencies. Intelligence is simply about information and in 99% of the cases it is not classified information. Most information is collected from newspapers, books, TV etc. That is what HQ intelligence does. Operational intelligence is even less secret. The job of an intelligence officer say on company level is to coordinate information for the company. If platoon A saw five tanks at point X and platoon B saw four tanks at point Y then it is the IO's job to put that information on a map and present it to the company commander.

Nothing secret. Just organization of information.

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