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Do you prefer Vanilla AI?

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So i had a mod/script conflict recently and realised my AI mod of choice which i have used since day 1, BCombat,was messing up a revive script for SP.

 

After narrowing down the issue,and being unable to remedy it,i decided i would have to do without BCombat.(Also Vcom as it wasnt compatible for me at least,with advanced AI command mod)

 

so i went into a premade mission,which i had playtested numerous times one particular firefight,so i could see how bad my AI were going to be now that i couldnt use a mod for them...

 

To my total suprise,the vanilla AI were fairly good,better than good.They were bounding,using smoke,grenades,moving from cover to cover,group members were not going MIA 50 meters away from group leader for the most part....They even managed upon a seek and destroy WP to send one or two units from a group into a building and clear it out(probably luck)....but it happened none the less. More importantly they did not take ten years under fire to move 10meters!! But they didnt rush kamikaze style toward the enemy either(AI courage at 50)

 

I really love what each AI mod i have tried has brought through the years,but i believe i will stick with vanilla from here on out.

 

The pros: 

Better performance

more compatibility

no worries about unsupported mods being broke by Arma3 updates

and a proud feeling for BIS ;) Good job

 

cons:

Mods like this and modders who make them are innovitave,they can think outside the box and appeal to players with features the devs overlook

 

whats your opinion of the AI these days?

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For SP, I use BIS AI due to significant performance reduction if I use other AI.

 

But if I had the cpu power or online, I prefer Vcom AI or ASR AI PE edition. With multiple headclients offloading AI, it is really a better combat experience especially with coop gameplay.

 

I just wish there was a headclient mod for SP missions without having the user to modify missions to make it from SP to MP then add HC code on top and run HC connected to a listen server. That would probably solve my #1 gripe about ARMA and lack of official females.

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My community and I used to load bCombat or ASR AI as well before. But nowadays we basically just use vanilla AI with specific setSkill[] values.

That way we have the performance of vanilla AI combined with the now good behaviour of AI and interesting firefights that result from the setSkill values.

Right now I don't really see the tradeoff of most AI mods - unless they really add something unique that isn't already present or tweakable.

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Just now, belbo said:

My community and I used to load bCombat or ASR AI as well before. But nowadays we basically just use vanilla AI with specific setSkill[] values.

That way we have the performance of vanilla AI combined with the now good behaviour of AI and interesting firefights that result from the setSkill values.

Right now I don't really see the tradeoff of most AI mods - unless they really add something unique that isn't already present or tweakable.

Yes i know what you mean.I also set skill for AI,for example,giving insurgents 100 to courage made them feel and act very differently to special forces.They still used cover but would alternate from one piece to the next extremely quickly.Add in GAIA for a reactive force with WP's,and that type of AI you face reminds me of the scene in Black hawk down where the entire city and militia all descend upon the crashed Helo :)

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I always play (SP) with vanilla AI and am pretty happy with its performance. I especially like the discipline and patience they display in sending squad members in large circles around you to outflank. Can be devastating if your own group is small and staying in one place too long.

 

When I play as a SPECOPS team I usually set the skill-level of all my own team members to 1 to increase their performance and compensate for the inevitable AI screw-ups that sometimes happen. So maybe effective house clearing is not doable with AI, but street clearing is a lot of fun, and many inside enemies can be neutralized from outside through windows. I make the AI stand guard at corners, while I 'mop up' by going through the houses.

 

I use a couple of - as simple as possible - scripts to support the vanilla AI. For instance to make squads spread out at a destination, it's functional and looks better than standing around in wedge formation. I also use a 'flee' script to make enemies leave the area when enemy's left < x . This will prevent a 'hunt for the last enemy'. A cool emergent property is that you get an extra spike in the combat. When you have almost defeated the enemy they start moving! Coming out of houses, leaving vehicles etc they will try to fight their way to the flee waypoint in CARELESS mode but still shooting!

 

Also use some random patrol scripts, transport scripts etc. I'm trying to keep everything as simple as possible and rely on vanilla AI for the most part.

 

If it's tactical, fun and somewhat realistic, I'm good! :-)

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7 minutes ago, joostsidy said:

I always play (SP) with vanilla AI and am pretty happy with its performance. I especially like the discipline and patience they display in sending squad members in large circles around you to outflank. Can be devastating if your own group is small and staying in one place too long.

 

When I play as a SPECOPS team I usually set the skill-level of all my own team members to 1 to increase their performance and compensate for the inevitable AI screw-ups that sometimes happen. So maybe effective house clearing is not doable with AI, but street clearing is a lot of fun, and many inside enemies can be neutralized from outside through windows. I make the AI stand guard at corners, while I 'mop up' by going through the houses.

 

I use a couple of - as simple as possible - scripts to support the vanilla AI. For instance to make squads spread out at a destination, it's functional and looks better than standing around in wedge formation. I also use a 'flee' script to make enemies leave the area when enemy's left < x . This will prevent a 'hunt for the last enemy'. A cool emergent property is that you get an extra spike in the combat. When you have almost defeated the enemy they start moving! Coming out of houses, leaving vehicles etc they will try to fight their way to the flee waypoint in CARELESS mode but still shooting!

 

Also use some random patrol scripts, transport scripts etc. I'm trying to keep everything as simple as possible and rely on vanilla AI for the most part.

 

If it's tactical, fun and somewhat realistic, I'm good! :-)

Just a quick tip,if you want AI (only applies to player led group) download WWAI mod.All it does is add certain features like extra commands you can issue your team...including "clear/garrison building"

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I honestly think that the vanilla AI are just fine. 

No need to improve them unless you want a certain functionality from them, in turn which you could script yourself.

 

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Like I scripted an AI script that stalked the player, and relayed info back and forth from different FOB's. Which obviously isn't in the game by default unless they are in the same group. 

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So the biggest gripe I have with current AI mods. Is they simply go to far in attempt to modify the AI. BI has been filling in the gaps slowly. Such as suppression, use of smoke, ect. However most AI mods still seem to want to add there own skill levels, accuracy, etc.

 

I like Vcom because it lets AI use recon, heavy weapons, etc. But seldom even feel the AI needs accuracy and scripted suppression stuff. Sounds nice vanilla now covers these aspects.

 

I think the next greatest AI mod won't be a overhaul but simply a more gap filler that provides the Vanilla AI with more tools.

 

 

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A good AI modification really needs to be fitted to the mission.

 

I do several things like change formations based on what terrain the squad is moving over (file/diamond in jungle, staggered column on roads, etc), and also some supports integration (allowing AI leaders to call for CAS/indirect fire, etc), target info sharing, etc...

 

But generic AI modifications often come at big performance cost.

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Vanilla AI is pretty decent but only as infantry.  I still use ASR_AI(Pooters) to add some extra little tweaks however.  I've not found AI mods to be very heavy on FPS in the main.

 

As with Turing's test, the best AI should be indistinguishable from human players .... we're not too far off that for infantry but driving and flying are still DIRE !

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As far as formations go, only thing I'd like to really see is a spacing increase/decrease control. Maybe the possibility to define new formations too.

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I can get a mod to affect formation spacing? Wow, great news :) can you give me the name of it please?

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I'm happy with BI AI starting from 2016,they made some good progress in an area that I felt it was always at the back of their priorities.As infantry they're good,as driving and flying they're "acceptable".Infantry fights are more interesting now,but I still don't know if they act like a team when they flank you or their leader is ordering them to flank as individuals.

I sometimes see 3-5 enemies close together trying to flank me or a lone poor bastard.

 

I also use a very essential mod for me that still works and makes mechanized combat in cities a real pleasure.It's Rydygier's Liability Insurance,basically makes a team or squad invulnerable if their apcs,tanks or ifvs are deciding to go on a rampage and drive over their own people.I had some very good Fever Claw(GR1)type of missions with this little gold nugget.

 

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6 hours ago, dmarkwick said:

As far as formations go, only thing I'd like to really see is a spacing increase/decrease control. Maybe the possibility to define new formations too.

 

So much this ^^

 

As far as answering the OP, vanilla AI (infantry) is good enough for me, but I agree with krem, AI driving and flying could use a lot of work.

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I do want to point out the differences between a regularly placed unit and a agent.

Agents are very easy to command. 

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3 hours ago, Evil Organ said:

 

So much this ^^

 

As far as answering the OP, vanilla AI (infantry) is good enough for me, but I agree with krem, AI driving and flying could use a lot of work.

Funny you mention flying...i just had my mind blown in a test a moment ago...

 

so i set a ten man group down,gave a helo hellcat a S&D WP,set skill of pilots to have good spot skills.They spotted infantry and used guns,the infantry lost about three men on the first run.But what happened next was something i did NOT expect...

 

The AI ran,about a mile down the street to a house which had friendly forces garrisoned inside,and actually went inside to take shelter/cover! That is the smartest thing i have yet to see the AI do,i never knew they could do that.it was not coincidence they chose building with friendly units either as there were dozens of houses with positions available.

 

Regarding AI helo intelligence i agree to an extent.If you use advanced AI command you can make that helo loiter at specific height,circling in a variety of radius you can define.

 

And i will add that the infantry running,never used cover along the way.Im assuming this is a vanilla retreat behaviour? I always thought retreat just ran them off the map LOL

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Ok so this is the second time in the thread I've read an account on AI taking cover in a house. This is actually why I came in to post.

 

I really like the vanilla AI. I gave up on AI mods several months back and don't regret it at all. I use a lowered skill and precision basically just to prolong firefights, but otherwise it's all default values and it does impress me.

 

My main issue with infantry AI is the fact that they won't hardly ever go inside or use the exterior of buildings as cover. I've seen countless instances of us patrolling a village and suddenly getting engaged, and most of the AI just hits the dirt (or worse, charges the enemy!), when a perfectly viable house they could garrison from and shoot out of, or even use as cover from the exterior, is right there! Right next to them.

 

I see this over and over. And it makes AI get killed very fast. Sometimes I'll use the take cover order and it basically just guarantees they'll hit the dirt.

 

This is one area I'd love to see tinkered with so you can see why it surprises me to read stories of AI using buildings in any facet, let alone strategically as described (twice) here.

 

Can anyone recommend any difficulty tweaks so I can see this too?

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9 hours ago, HeroesandvillainsOS said:

Ok so this is the second time in the thread I've read an account on AI taking cover in a house. This is actually why I came in to post.

 

I really like the vanilla AI. I gave up on AI mods several months back and don't regret it at all. I use a lowered skill and precision basically just to prolong firefights, but otherwise it's all default values and it does impress me.

 

My main issue with infantry AI is the fact that they won't hardly ever go inside or use the exterior of buildings as cover. I've seen countless instances of us patrolling a village and suddenly getting engaged, and most of the AI just hits the dirt (or worse, charges the enemy!), when a perfectly viable house they could garrison from and shoot out of, or even use as cover from the exterior, is right there! Right next to them.

 

I see this over and over. And it makes AI get killed very fast. Sometimes I'll use the take cover order and it basically just guarantees they'll hit the dirt.

 

This is one area I'd love to see tinkered with so you can see why it surprises me to read stories of AI using buildings in any facet, let alone strategically as described (twice) here.

 

Can anyone recommend any difficulty tweaks so I can see this too?

I will point out i tested this on CUP Takistan.Those houses have alot of positions available in them,it may be a contributing factor.

 

Another thing to note about AI going into cover...if the direction they are facing,is towards a piece of cover,they will take that cover..if they are in lets say,a staggered formation walking through a street with houses on both their left and right,they are more likely to go prone.This is what i have discovered in alot of testing lately.

 

When the AI actually go into a house where an enemy is,is rare,and i belive its something to do with the squad leader of that AI having eyes on the ai inside,but not being able to get the angle to shoot,and ordering a subordinate to engage freely,thus making that subordinate move to the enemy position,and if the house has valid positions,it will traverse the house. This is why is believe it is a rare thing to see them do it...

 

As for AI skill,tweak their courage up a bit,it has a higher probability of making them move to target faster,which in turn will put them in contact with hard cover along the way,and they will use it...but only briefly before moving again.

 

Auto combat is also something worth checking out.Try these things out.

 

Hope it helps

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Another vote for vanilla AI from my group. I spent a lot of time going through AI threads here before coming to this conclusion. I tried VCOM but felt like it was doing too much, it pays to keep thing simple IMO. The only thing you really need to do is lower their accuracy to something like 0.20, otherwise it's just not fun.

 

After playing Zeus for a while you start to realize that nowadays the AI is already pretty good, especially in CQC they can do some pretty convincing maneuvers. Peeking around corners, flanking, etc. There's a few outliers when they see a sliver of you through some branches and start shooting but on average they're pretty good.

 

Vehicle AI on the other hand is still pretty hit-and-miss. Sometimes they get stuck in place or drive off roads for no reason. Tanks are the worst offenders, it seems their AI has been significantly downgraded since OFP. I'm hoping BIS will address this in time for the Tanks DLC.

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I am using Advanced AI command as well and I can't live without it as I play mostly SP.  But I've gotten used to using it together with vcom, with all its werid behaviour and error messages. 

 

Inspired from this thread, I may give vanilla AI a chance after all. But, there are a few features in vcom that make it really useful that I'd want to keep. 

Such as AI calling in support from nearby units and calling for arty. And other things such as using and deploying static weapons, flanking etc. 

 

Is it maybe possible to use only those features or thoae that doesn't conflict with advanced AI command? Both are available in script form so maybe someone skilled at scripting might know.

 

But if only using vanilla, are there any other mods scripts that lets AI call for support? 

Someone mentioned GAIA. Does it work well with mods like ALiVE and/or Zeus? 

Another mod I saw was AISS, might be an option but I looks like that I also has some AI behaviour features. And hasn't been updated for a while. 

 

Edit: I should note that I, as any self respecting arma player should, almost always play with ALiVE

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16 hours ago, Nablatidis said:

But if only using vanilla, are there any other mods scripts that lets AI call for support?

 

I use DAC, and AI will call for support.

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Vanilla AI = Arma III.  Modded AI != Arma III, and can create problems with missions and other mods.  I play Arma III (SP only, 1236 hours), and have never used an AI mod.  Same goes for Arma II.  If vanilla AI sucked so bad, I wouldn't play Arma at all.  While not perfect, gameplay with vanilla AI is very satisfying for me.  Even AI driving has improved a lot.  Flipping ("cardboard") tanks is more of a problem for me than AI.

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The vanilla AI used to be really bad a couple years ago when I bought the game, now it's pretty decent I think. Only improvements I'd like to see infantry-wise is better ability to navigate close quarters areas without clipping or walking through objects.

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