Helicopter camera

[Misconduct 99]

9 hours ago, oukej said:

This seems like a misunderstanding. At no point I've implied that we no longer care about the issue.

Please understand that solving this issue is different from fixing a bug. We've made what we believed was an improvement to the camera tech - a less rigid, smoother camera, with better awareness of the vehicle's flight vector, sensation of its motion and a bit more of a "physical" feel. We've staged in on Dev-branch for 2 months, 14 days as a Release candidate. We've released it with 1.70. We've received negative feedback, got data and we've rushed in with another small update to solve the primary objection - the lost awareness when landing.

We do acknowledge the other feedback too - be it seasickness or just the change itself altering perception of the motion within perfected, pinpoint accurate maneuvering routines. We don't have a resolution for that yet. Please bear with us.
 

I have to say that this makes me feel a LOT better, perhaps we just needed to hear that you are going to fix it, from our (my) perspective BI seemed kinda quiet on the fix commitment - for a while there.

Thanks in advance for fixing it devs.

 

edit: Priority # 1 please

[Highlight Frosty 6]

give us the old choppers

 

[alohaa 17]

1 hour ago, Highlight Frosty said:

give us the old choppers

 

 

yes sir.

and nothing like half the old camera.

i want it exactly as it was before 1.70.

- no shaking, wobbeling, seasickness or "i do what i want"- camera...

- no oversteering in slowflight..

- no inputlag..

 

i want the " pinpoint accurate maneuvering routines " back...!!

[RacerX 55]

11 hours ago, pooroldspike said:

 

Yes, the original 1.70 update made them almost unflyable and people were puking over their keyboards with airsickness, but to their credit Boh released a 1.70 hotfix which improved things a lot, so make sure you've got the hotfix installed and you can cut right down on the airsick pills..:)

However, some chopper pilots (including you) prefer the old 1.68 view, but Bohemia seem to be saying it's gone forever and that's what most of the angry complaints in this thread are about, so unless Boh change their minds, 1.70 hotfixed is going to be the only view in town.

The obvious solution would be to revert back to 1.68 camera,break the jets,then fix the jets since the update was about JETS!  But nope BI decided to instead to work around the heli problem then double down,then triple down on on fixing the helicopters instead of going back to the source of the problem which was the jets update and appeasing the jet users. Which btw most jets users that I talk to on my server say the blackfish among other things are all screwed up and they are unhappy with the changes. 

[teabagginpeople 398]

2 hours ago, RacerX said:

The obvious solution would be to revert back to 1.68 camera,break the jets,then fix the jets since the update was  about JETS!.

This is so obvious.  I cannot believe that bis have not done this already. well thought out response. :-S 

Quote

  Which btw most jets users that I talk to on my server say the blackfish among other things are all screwed up and they are unhappy with the changes. 

Are we still talking about the camera here.Because I believe this is the discussion here.haven't  seen any complaints aimed at the dlc jets assets, vanilla jets or vtols regarding the CAMERA change let alone "most" jets users. Imo Jets camera has been very much improved.  

 

Are you purposely confusing  the blackfish vtol issues being raised due to the addition of manual /automatic vectoring to try make a point about the camera of all jets. Because this would be dishonest. 

[RacerX 55]

4 hours ago, teabagginpeople said:

This is so obvious.  I cannot believe that bis have not done this already. well thought out response. :-S 

Thank you glad you agree

4 hours ago, teabagginpeople said:

Are we still talking about the camera here.Because I believe this is the discussion here.haven't  seen any complaints aimed at the dlc jets assets, vanilla jets or vtols regarding the CAMERA change let alone "most" jets users. Imo Jets camera has been very much improved.  

 

Are you purposely confusing  the blackfish vtol issues being raised due to the addition of manual /automatic vectoring to try make a point about the camera of all jets. Because this would be dishonest. 

Yeah I am purposely confusing it with the blackfish VTOL issues because I am dishonest! Good call! What was I thinking? :-S

[Firebird-B4L 51]

The problem (according to previous reports in this thread from Oukej) is that BI (Bohemia Interactive) does not have the manpower to address this issue timely and properly (we have the temporary hotfix in place to hold us over until something can be decided upon and put into place).  

 

This implies that the manpower at BI is not being assigned to fix the heli camera issue due to other things/projects/DLCs being on BI's prioritized agenda (future DLC with a deadline?$$$?).  Understandable from a business perspective, but not from a customer service one.    

 

Oukej of BI stated that they have not come up with a solution yet and for us to bear with them.  

 

We as players and payers appreciate the honesty and the feedback from headquarters, as much as you can afford to provide.

 

In my opinion, BI has to come up with a solution for the old camera to be back on the table.   

 

Also, while we are bearing with BI, there are heli pilot players (the percentage would be hard to accurately state) that are using and liking the hotfix camera.  

 

If the new, hotfix camera goes away to bring back the 1.68 (which would be fine with me and quite a few others based on feedback) you possibley create a new situation, similar to the one your facing now--an unknown number of players wanting the hotfix camera back .  Do they love the hotfix camera so much that they'd complain as much as we have who love the old 1.68 so much?  Highly doubtful because we've been with our old camera for years.  

 

But these are unknowns BI is faced with and I'm positive they are aware of this.

 

With that said, it makes sense to address this correctly and put into place an intelligent solution for the long run that allows for both cameras to be available.  

 

If this is not currently an option (allowing for both cameras), get the manpower, temporarily hire some manpower, and get an in-game menu option going, and do it quickly.  

 

Piloting is an extremely important part of this game and the camera is our eyes, sight being one of the most important parts of flying.  The helis did not need new eyes, but the jets apparently did.  

 

We want our eyes back.  For the guys who like wearing the new glasses, they want to keep them.

 

BI should narrow their solution for this problem to include both cameras and eventually the in-game menu option to customize the camera, or have choices of camera styles to choose from that don't remove the original flight camera that worked so well for so long.

 

 

 

 

[pooroldspike 128]

11 hours ago, RacerX said:

...most jets users that I talk to on my server say the blackfish among other things are all screwed up and they are unhappy with the changes. 

 

Me too..:)

I've been pouting and sulking like crazy because 1.70 introduced a new set of Blackfish vectoring control key combos which won't bloody work for me and I've been grounded ever since, and so are a lot of other people. The KOTH server skies are now almost empty of Blackfishes because people won't spend hard-earned game-cash on something they can't fly. Some brave souls try it now and again but usually end up hung up on telephone wires or in treetops.

PS- and for good measure 1.70 also introduced new lockon parameters for the Titan AA missile launcher which buggered that up too, as it's now almost impossible to lock onto fast-flying jest and choppers, I actually abandoned a KOTH game yesterday because jets were trashing everything in sight and there was nothing we could do to stop them, so I went and did myself a couple of rounds of cheese on toast and sat down to watch a 'Women on Death Row'  TV documentary instead.

[Firebird-B4L 51]

2 hours ago, pooroldspike said:

so I went and did myself a couple of rounds of cheese on toast and sat down to watch a 'Women on Death Row'  TV documentary instead.

 

Just hearing that makes me zoom out and realize that this thread is such a minor and microscopic problem in the US and the world.  I could go on, but this is not the place for that.

[teabagginpeople 398]

15 hours ago, romille1 said:

 

Just hearing that makes me zoom out and realize that this thread is such a minor and microscopic problem in the US and the world.  I could go on, but this is not the place for that.

Yeah the problem is Like tear drops in the rain. 

 

Yeah and when you do zoom out you see  alot of ridiculous shit. 

 

You suggest hey maybe try being reasonable giving new camera a fair chance see if you can adapt .. Get told you must not be a supa fly guy in humming bird you wouldn't understand :D 

 

Some imaginary jets vs helis pissing contest,  statements like bis are favoring jets over helis. 

 

When reality is. It's not a helis vs jets thing. they're trying to find a cost effective universal solution that won't mean high mantainance and stretch their already thinning resources. 

 

Then there is a situation here were Some people seem genuinely unable to distinguish between the BIS product Arma 3 and the game mode someone else created king of the hill. 

 

It's the same as Altis life players demanding bis make the vanilla hunters less armored because their cops cars can't catch them all the time.

 

 

[Firebird-B4L 51]

When you zoom out just a little bit, way before you're able to actually envision someone sitting on a couch, eating a cheese sandwich, and watching a documentary on TV, you can see and envision Arma 3 as a whole.  The helicopter stands out as a major and popular element of the gaming experience; that's a no-brainer. 

 

Even if you don't fly a lot, don't fly well, or can't fly hardly at all, or are in a jet shooting at a helicopter, in some way you are affected by the helicopter camera, good or bad.

 

It's good for the guys who fly jets and bought the DLC to have some time to enjoy the jets while the enemy heli cams are broken and the lock on AA man pads are screwed up and the OP armed Blackfish no longer threaten the skies.  I'm not starting a conspiracy theory, I'm stating a fact. 

 

But in the meantime we are bearing with BI.... and hopefully all our time spent awaiting the solution will be worth the wait and the energy invested in providing objective feedback.

 

 

Edited June 7, 2017 by romille1
punk punk punk, punk punctuation (and spelling)

[Misconduct 99]

4 hours ago, teabagginpeople said:

Yeah the problem is Like tear drops in the rain. 

 

Yeah and when you do zoom out you see  alot of ridiculous shit. 

 

You suggest hey maybe try being reasonable giving new camera a fair chance see if you can adapt .. Get told you must not be a supa fly guy in humming bird you wouldn't understand :D 

 

Some imaginary jets vs helis pissing contest,  statements like bis are favoring jets over helis. 

 

When reality is. It's not a helis vs jets thing. they're trying to find a cost effective universal solution that won't mean high mantainance and stretch their already thinning resources. 

 

Then there is a situation here were Some people seem genuinely unable to distinguish between the BIS product Arma 3 and the game mode someone else created king of the hill. 

 

It's the same as Altis life players demanding bis make the vanilla hunters less armored because their cops cars can't catch them all the time.

 

 

Giving the camera a fair chance isn't even the issue, its that the camera we had for 3 years isn't even an option. We shouldn't have to give the new camera a chance. Please stop suggesting that others roll over and take it just because you gave up or never cared.

 

I'd say the influx of money BI just received by selling Jets should be allocated to fixing the damage that the Jets dlc created, BI has admitted it was a mistake and that it slipped through their defenses, Priority #1 on the to do list.

 

The game mode issue is irrelevant when you talk about this update, because it affects the vanilla game, basically if servers offer a vanilla only experience then BI cant expect us to rewrite the heli config to be able to play as we have been for the last 3 years, if the servers even allow it.

 

It is not the same as Altis life demands to BI, THEY have an issue within the scope of their scenario, the helicopter viewpoint changed for the whole game overnight, by accident.

[Firebird-B4L 51]

6 hours ago, teabagginpeople said:

You suggest hey maybe try being reasonable giving new camera a fair chance see if you can adapt .. Get told you must not be a supa fly guy in humming bird you wouldn't understand :D 

 

We have given the 1.70 hotfix camera a chance, and we don't like it like some of the other guys.

 

It's pretty simple and a very legitimate request: please repair what we purchased three years ago after you admittedly broke it.

 

Sorry, but WTF is so hard to understand about that?

[RacerX 55]

31 minutes ago, romille1 said:

 

We have given the 1.70 hotfix camera a chance, and we don't like it like some of the other guys.

 

It's pretty simple and a very legitimate request: please repair what we purchased three years ago after you admittedly broke it.

 

Sorry, but WTF is so hard to understand about that?

@teabagginpeople is there a reason you are following this thread? You obviously don't have any issues with the camera. Are you just here to troll? 

[teabagginpeople 398]

59 minutes ago, RacerX said:

@teabagginpeople is there a reason you are following this thread? You obviously don't have any issues with the camera. Are you just here to troll? 

Ha am I here to troll??. I have multiple posts. the vast majority of them are not for some self agenda.no they are from dev branch.  testing and reporting game breaking bugs so yall don't have to suffer them on stable.  My free time. Piss bag. So piss off with that troll crap.

 

I fly alot.  I bought a track ir.  My money.I fly helis and jets. Helis more so. So I felt I deserved an opinion in the heli camera tread is that alright with you? It's feedback for both positive and negative.  It isn't the broken helicopter camera negative feedback thread .  It's helicopter camera. 

 

Are you triggered??  Do you need a safe space to complain?  so nobody will have a different opinion.

[RacerX 55]

24 minutes ago, teabagginpeople said:

Ha am I here to troll??. I have multiple posts. the vast majority of them are not for some self agenda.no they are from dev branch.  testing and reporting game breaking bugs so yall don't have to suffer them on stable.  My free time. Piss bag. So piss off with that troll crap.

 

I fly alot.  I bought a track ir.  My money.I fly helis and jets. Helis more so. So I felt I deserved an opinion in the heli camera tread is that alright with you? It's feedback for both positive and negative.  It isn't the broken helicopter camera negative feedback thread .  It's helicopter camera. 

well so far all you have done in this whole entire thread is to take a condescending attitude to those of us that ARE having problems and have shown your true colors and maturity with that last post of yours.  

[Firebird-B4L 51]

37 minutes ago, teabagginpeople said:

Ha am I here to troll??. I have multiple posts. the vast majority of them are not for some self agenda.no they are from dev branch.  testing and reporting game breaking bugs so yall don't have to suffer them on stable.  My free time. Piss bag. So piss off with that troll crap.

 

I fly alot.

 

How did you miss the pre-hotfix camera when 1.70 was on Dev branch?

[pooroldspike 128]

There's a lovely young woman who works in our local supermarket, so I used to make a point of shopping there so that I could spy on her between the cans of baked beans and stewed steak, but recently she's pinned her hair up into one of them awful bun things and it looks terrible, so I've completely lost interest in her and now go and spy on a woman in WH Smiths bookshop instead.

Same with Arma3, it looked lovely in 1.68, but then Boh brought out the 1.70 upgrade which makes it look awful by messing up the Titan AA launcher lockon routine and the Blackfish VTOL controls, and some chopper pilots hate the new "fluid camera" view.   

Obviously Boh have made the policy decision to continually try to "improve" Arma3 at regular intervals which sounds good on paper, but as we've seen, the changes are not always liked by the community, so maybe Boh should review their policy and ONLY make changes/fixes when there's an OVERWHELMING demand from the community.

But as far as I know there was NO such overwhelming demand for 1.70, as the majority of players were quite happy with the way the Titan AA, Blackfish and helis worked before. 

In other words Boh tried to fix something that wasn't broken.

When I was a paid developer at Cases in the 1980's we used to bring out games as a finished product, and turn our attention to bringing out the next game, we didn't keep going back to needlessly tweak earlier games, and the community seemed to like our "leave well alone" approach..:)-

 

   

[Firebird-B4L 51]

My spying days are over, both Arma and at supermarkets (at least they are supposed to be).  Lightning has ended one virtual relationship and marriage has sealed a real one.  

 

But if I were a single, studly, colorful old guy, full of humor, life, and great jokes, i'd be getting out from behind the cans of beans and engaging in conversation with said bookshop employee.  Life is too short.

 

And if I were the HNIC (street slang for Boss) over at BI, I'd be doing things a whole lot differently.  

 

But talk is cheap and that's all I'm doing here....

[pooroldspike 128]

1 hour ago, romille1 said:

..if I were a single, studly, colorful old guy, full of humor, life, and great jokes, i'd be getting out from behind the cans of beans and engaging in conversation with said bookshop employee.  Life is too short.

And if I were the HNIC (street slang for Boss) over at BI, I'd be doing things a whole lot differently.

 

1- Sadly the bookshop employee seemed to give me the cold shoulder in the street the other day, we were walking towards each other and I was hurriedly trying to think of some witty funny remark to hit her with, but before I had the chance she'd whipped out her mobile phone and started talking into it to pretend she hadn't seen me, and we passed without a word (sniffle).

I'll try my luck with the young lady in the Co-op next, she says hello to me with a sweet smile every time I go in. Clever girl, she knows we old farts are the ones with the brains AND the money..;)

2- Yes mate, born leaders such as you and me like to run shows, I personally can't stand being second fiddle to anybody!

In fact I've just walked out of an Arma3 WW2 mod development team because it's being run at an indecisive snail's pace and it's boring me out of my skull. Below are a few of the dozens of units we've been working on and I've been screaming "RELEASE, RELEASE!" for months, but the Big Boss is dragging his feet, so I jumped ship-

 

 

 

 

[PistFlyBoy 15]

2 hours ago, pooroldspike said:

There's a lovely young woman who works in our local supermarket, so I used to make a point of shopping there so that I could spy on her between the cans of baked beans and stewed steak, but recently she's pinned her hair up into one of them awful bun things and it looks terrible, so I've completely lost interest in her and now go and spy on a woman in WH Smiths bookshop instead.

Same with Arma3, it looked lovely in 1.68, but then Boh brought out the 1.70 upgrade which makes it look awful by messing up the Titan AA launcher lockon routine and the Blackfish VTOL controls, and some chopper pilots hate the new "fluid camera" view.   

 

 

 

   

 

This was probably the BEST analogy on this thread so far.

 

For the regards of the camera discussion and the rest.

As I have expressed some disappointment towards @oukej response, If you weren't mocking us, well my apologies but that's how my little community following this thread and me, perceived it.

Anyway in that answer you gave was totally out of question, let me quote myself here:

 

On 6/3/2017 at 1:34 PM, PistFlyBoy said:

Oh nice! where do i find it in my game option menu so i can go back to my normal fov changing with speed?

 

Keywords here was "IN MY GAME OPTION MENU". And the answer is: there is not one.  But its fine, we working towards the solution here.

 

The fact of people liking the 1.70 camera of helicopters, (Must agree with jets the camera does a good job). its something that i can Understand, lots of people with different points of view, but its somewhat kinda disturbing, we had literally people puking all over the place with that camera, BUT THEN, YOU ARE TELLING ME, that the FOV movement in 1st person (PRE JET-DLC) was making people sick, I looked around, found NOTHING, never heard any feedback about it EVER.    Please provide.

 

The solution here is easy said,  give Us an option for the PRE-JET dlc both 1st/3rd person camera.

Easy done? maybe not, You guys must certainly have an amount of resource to allocate, and again, this is me, and friends of mine, we went from playing 50hours a week of flying to 0h cause of your new 1st person/3rd person.  Lost interest.

 

----- Little off-topic----

Now personally i barely play King of the hill, so i don't know how flying works there,i imagine being a jet fest, we mainly just playing hosting a server flying around, killing each other off, maybe some wasteland or whatever.  (thats how we have fun and relive stress  after work,  talking crap to each other and pawneeing each other down or playing follow the leader with helicopter and what not.)

Why am i saying this? I`m trying to prove a point, you can say all you want about people playing Altis Life, Koth and those "arcadish" way of playing the game, ok we are not Mil-simmer, but this game is this famous because of those Arcadish mods, when Streamer like Lirik played altis life and had 40k viewer and arma 3 was the first game on twitch, you wouldn't see ANY stream on milsim with more then 500 viewer.

 

So yea you can alter the vanilla game for the Simulation, but im pretty sure the biggest population of this game is all other mods that have nothing to deal with Vanilla arma 3, but the part of arma which is more arcadish, MAYBE im wrong, WOULD LOVE to see the actual data.

 

Anyway hoping you guys can bring arma back.

Regard

 

 

[Misconduct 99]

3 hours ago, teabagginpeople said:

Ha am I here to troll??. I have multiple posts. the vast majority of them are not for some self agenda.no they are from dev branch.  testing and reporting game breaking bugs so yall don't have to suffer them on stable.  My free time. Piss bag. So piss off with that troll crap.

 

I fly alot.  I bought a track ir.  My money.I fly helis and jets. Helis more so. So I felt I deserved an opinion in the heli camera tread is that alright with you? It's feedback for both positive and negative.  It isn't the broken helicopter camera negative feedback thread .  It's helicopter camera. 

 

Are you triggered??  Do you need a safe space to complain?  so nobody will have a different opinion.

This is in fact the broken helicopter negative feedback thread (see below for thread starters post), not that you don't have an opinion but it does beg the question of how you found yourself here. It seems more like you are finding hot topics on which to play devils advocate, while we are trying to convince the devs to fix something they admit is broken.

 

Also, if you are on the volunteer squad to prevent exactly this type of thing from happening, you failed.

 

 

 

Hey Dev-Guys,

 

I hope this is the right section to post this.

 

I am having serious trouble flying choppers with the new camera settings. Right now the camera is following the choppers movements. If I pull the nose up the camera will go under the chopper and if I tilt the nose down it goes over it. This is causing an issue for people that fly with mouse and keyboard because the chopper will always try to right itself. This means I have to constantly tap W (Nose down) to pick up/keep the speed. With the new settings the camera will bob downwards every time I hit W. That camera bobbing effect is causing me to get dizzy after a few minutes. This was not an issue before since the camera remained somewhat stable.

 

I would really appreciate it if you could give us the option to use the flight model from before the update. I really love flying in this game but I dont love to throw up over my keyboard.

 

Thank you and sorry if my English is not so good.

[Firebird-B4L 51]

I'm finding with age, leadership starts setting in more.  The older I get, the wiser I find myself, or maybe I should just say "less foolish"?  I guess it depends on which side of the coin of life you look at it from and how you view the half-empty or half-full glass.

 

If I could go back in time, there are a lot of things I would like to do differently (me smacking my forehead). If the world was honest, I think most people would say the same thing, because hindsight is 20/20 and we make mistakes along the way, some bigger than others.

 

Maybe that's why parenthood is such an attempt to get your kids to realize the pitfalls that are potentially ahead. "If you ever grow up and work for a gaming company, don't start getting fancy and mess up the helicopter camera.  All you're going to do is piss a lot of people off and create a forum full of strife"  what?  Nevermind, just make intelligent choices, and you won't have to deal with angry people. what?  Just go play your video game.  

 

Is this a helicopter camera forum?  Any moment the Dev will step in and politely remind us to stay on topic.  But, while we are bearing with them, why not enjoy ourselves in conversation rather than continue to "go in circles", which seems to be life's theme, the cycle of life, the rotation of the planet, the repeating of time, day after day, tick after tick, second after second, step after step.

 

Hindsight is 20/20, the present is real and here now, and the future is unknown and unpredictable and history repeats itself--there's nothing new under the sun.  Yes there's technology, but inventing is as old as the wheel.  

 

Arguments, thoughts, these same ideas, have been repeated for millennia untold.  There are those who welcome change for the sake change itself, and then there's the guys who like the comfortable, the known, the old camera: enter the great debate.

 

What am I saying?  I have no idea really.  I just had a glass of wine, heard some fantastic thoughts from a recorded program on a DVD, and Arma is a thing of the past for me.  Why do I even care what happens to this camera anymore--I won't even be able to use it?  Maybe forums are addictive too.l  Hmmmmm, I better be careful.

 

Anyways, good luck with your courting and that WWII mod looks awesome.  As far as flashing a Benjamin Franklin or two to catch the eye of a young gold digger, maybe it would be best to stay behind the beans.  Something tells me that's not the kind of thing you want in your life.  If it is, just find one that is for sale and go home alone, relieved, and without all the drama.  No, that's bad advice.  I guess no matter what side of the beans your on, the grass will always appear greener on the other side.

 

As far as leadership goes, it's a lonely place I hear.  The King's head doesn't rest well on the pillow at night.

 

Speaking of a good night sleep, goodnight.

 

 

[BohemiaBeck 305]

No name calling, flame-baiting or offtopic. Users that do will continue to get warnings and possible restrictions or suspension from the forums.

[teabagginpeople 398]

8 hours ago, RacerX said:

well so far all you have done in this whole entire thread is to take a condescending attitude to those of us that ARE having problems and have shown your true colors and maturity with that last post of yours.  

 I am showing true colours and immaturity? weren't you the guy going around screeching bis said it's your problem ,you fix the camera. and a bis dev had to pull you up and say....well... no... why would they?you know why they pulled you up?because it was untrue. you know who I don't lose sleep over telling me I'm immature. people who exaggerate or twist words so they can faux outrage. 

 

8 hours ago, romille1 said:

 

How did you miss the pre-hotfix camera when 1.70 was on Dev branch?

I didn't miss it. I actually caught it and never reported. how this happen?it  happened as it collided with real world stuff and forgot then probably due to a hangover or not going on Arma. shit happens . I caught a nice shoot buildings with a heli and it crashes arma to desktop bug yippie ky yay. not many were testing heli stuff be it players and probably the QA team it was a blip. hell I didn't even know they had done anything with the camera till like I said when I noticed it(flying the KA in the showcase gunship when I was rearming) .even then I was not testing camera stuff. I was seeing if heli sensors/radars  worked properly so one could Noe.

 

anyways going around in circles here. Devs have stated they are working on something. be sure and drop into dev branch if changes are made. so you can give an opinion before it hits stable.