Helicopter camera

[gsg94490 10]

@Misconduct

You are 100% right. Your Above Post is a perfect example of why it shouldnt happen. The fundamentals have been changed with no warning and without proper testing and evaluation. 

[PistFlyBoy 15]

12 hours ago, Misconduct said:

I would say that the unpredicted and unintended change to the 3 year old camera should be priority number one, it shouldn't matter what the general feel of the feedback is, BI fundamentally changed the game and its appearance, I for one bought Arma because of its long range beauty, I simply cant look at it anymore, and it frustrates me to no end to hear people suggest that we get used to it or adapt, because we simply shouldn't HAVE to.

 

My full dedication to this game was thrown away overnight by a massive oversight and under response to our pleas (not to mention those who roll over and take it, while suggesting that everyone else rollover and take it). Im not saying my opinion matters more than others but I just want people to understand more of the impact, which is that every single 3rd person video on youtube advertising this game for Bohemia is now an outdated and meaningless video.

 

Maybe I'm just bitchy because my loyalty to this game - (i.e. my game time and youtube channel) - means nothing now. Re-learn? I can, but I'm more inclined to find a game developer that respects their own product enough not to shit on it, and if they do, fix it for those who gave their time and money to them.

 

He said it, the same exact thing is happening to me, but 1st person wise.

 

On 6/2/2017 at 4:38 AM, oukej said:

I'm sorry but atm we won't be reintroducing the FoV changes with speed. The change has been based on numerous complains about induced sickness, loosing perception of speed, distance, sometimes zooming out too far that the instruments become unreadable.

 

And the excuse of people getting sick, its a poor excuse, I have a friend myself who is getting sick with ur 3rd person, after a couple of hours of adapting he is now fine.

Please link me some of those complaints of  getting sick, I looked around on the forums i couldn't find them, I would love to see the arguments of those people.

 

Instrument wise, you could move ur head to see them just like you have to do now,

Plus the fact that you removed it, not even true, its still there its just been adapted to jet, so in the helicopters that have a small acceleration its not moving that much anymore.

 

The fact that you clearly deny to make it a feature just makes me even more upset towards you.

 

I AGREE AND UNDERSTAND ON THE FACT THAT SOME PEOPLE MAY NOT LIKE THE FOV CHANGE, but you cannot deny other people who likes it from using it.

 

You have tons of config options, and those option is one more thing that makes ur game amazing, what big of a deal is making this one too? please.

 

[oukej 2910]

35 minutes ago, PistFlyBoy said:

You have tons of config options, and those option is one more thing that makes ur game amazing, what big of a deal is making this one too? please.

It is a config option already ;)

 

9 hours ago, gsg94490 said:

@Misconduct

You are 100% right. Your Above Post is a perfect example of why it shouldnt happen. The fundamentals have been changed with no warning and without proper testing and evaluation. 

 

 

[PistFlyBoy 15]

10 minutes ago, oukej said:

It is a config option already ;)

 

Oh nice! where do i find it in my game option menu so i can go back to my normal fov changing with speed?

[oukej 2910]

new properties in viewPilot (and other viewXY) are
speedZoomMaxSpeed
speedZoomMaxFOV
 

[pooroldspike 128]

13 hours ago, Misconduct said:

I would say that the unpredicted and unintended change to the 3 year old camera should be priority number one..

 

And let's not forget that two other important issues should also rank up there in the top priority slot, namely-

Firstly the new Titan AA missile lockon routine needs fixing, as it's now almost impossible to stay locked on to a fast-flying jet,

and secondly the new Blackfish VTOL vectoring keys need fixing because they don't work for me and I'm grounded.

To sum up, the 1.70 upgrade has messed up some things real bad.

 

[PistFlyBoy 15]

1 minute ago, oukej said:

new properties in viewPilot (and other viewXY) are
speedZoomMaxSpeed
speedZoomMaxFOV
 

 

Bruh... I fly helicopters I don't script them... Gimme an option in the game menu, just like you did for the AFM...

[Misconduct 99]

2 minutes ago, oukej said:

new properties in viewPilot (and other viewXY) are
speedZoomMaxSpeed
speedZoomMaxFOV
 

to people who don't script - this doesn't mean much. we bought a game & it worked for 3 years and now its broken.

Can you at least give us some clear instructions as to where and how this script can be used? Will it work for multiplayer games?

 

[Greenfist 1863]

53 minutes ago, Misconduct said:

to people who don't script - this doesn't mean much. we bought a game & it worked for 3 years and now its broken.

Can you at least give us some clear instructions as to where and how this script can be used? Will it work for multiplayer games?

 

It's not scripting actually. These are config properties for a vehicle, like that 'extCameraParams' for the vertical camera movement. So you'd need a mod to change it.

And it will work in multiplayer if the server allows that particular mod made of these configs. But right now it would only work on development build servers because these properties don't exist in the current 1.70 version.

 

 

[Misconduct 99]

53 minutes ago, Greenfist said:

It's not scripting actually. These are config properties for a vehicle, like that 'extCameraParams' for the vertical camera movement. So you'd need a mod to change it.

And it will work in multiplayer if the server allows that particular mod made of these configs. But right now it would only work on development build servers because these properties don't exist in the current 1.70 version.

 

 

I apreciate the feedback, but I still don't understand where/how I can actually do that.

 

edit:

Its strange that the best/only answers come from other players and never from BI.

 

[Misconduct 99]

SITREP #00194

 

"...After the release of Update 1.70, we discovered some issues that had slipped past our QA defenses and ended up on Main Branch. To address these, we published a hotfix shortly after the update. For example, after evaluating the feedback on the helicopter external camera, we came up with a universal solution to make flying helicopters enjoyable again. We hope to revisit the configuration again in future updates by tailoring the camera to specific vehicles or vehicle types for an even better experience. "

 

So where is the universal solution to make helicopters enjoyable again?

 

WE STILL NEED A FIX, 1.70 is NOT the game we have played for years!!!!

[_Reyve_ 1]

I still don´t understand why they changed it... It was soooo good, so why would you change it ? 

I miss the old camera - In fact it was a reason why I played Arma; to fly helicopters. 

 

The hotfix made helicopters flyable again, but not realy enjoyable. I hope we´ll get the 1.68 camera back, it just was so nice and you could exactly see what´s beneath you, while still seeing what´s infront of you.

37 minutes ago, Misconduct said:

SITREP #00194

 

"...After the release of Update 1.70, we discovered some issues that had slipped past our QA defenses and ended up on Main Branch. To address these, we published a hotfix shortly after the update. For example, after evaluating the feedback on the helicopter external camera, we came up with a universal solution to make flying helicopters enjoyable again. We hope to revisit the configuration again in future updates by tailoring the camera to specific vehicles or vehicle types for an even better experience. "

 

I just hope we´ll get the option to use the 1.68 camera... 

[pooroldspike 128]

On 26/05/2017 at 1:45 PM, oukej said:

Valid complains that 3rd person camera used to be "suboptimal" (and sim industry non-standard-ish) for aircraft control and flight vector awareness is what triggered the changes in the first place :)

 

As a flight simmer for 34 years, I can tell you the sim industry standard is to have at least two 3rd-person view options (usually corresponding to Arma3's 1.68 fixed-horizon view and the 1.70 hotfixed fluid-horizon view).

In fact most flight sims have more than those two 3rd-p views, they also have a variety of views such as "Spot", "Fixed spot", "Chase", Padlock", "Camera movement", "Moveable eyeballs " etc. 

So compared to them Arma3 is sub-optimal and lags behind the industry standard because it only has a single view (1.70 hotfixed).

I'm not a computer expert but presumably the programming for the 1.68 view still exists in a drawer in Boh's office, so if it can be fished out and slotted into Arma3 to give us the option of using it or the 1.70 hotfixed view, it'd solve the problem at a stroke and put a smile on our faces bigger than a wave on a slop bucket..:)

[teabagginpeople 398]

9 hours ago, pooroldspike said:

I'm not a computer expert but presumably the programming for the 1.68 view still exists in a drawer in Boh's office, so if it can be fished out and slotted into Arma3 to give us the option of using it or the 1.70 hotfixed view, it'd solve the problem at a stroke and put a smile on our faces bigger than a wave on a slop bucket..:)

Often you're suggesting an ingame option - tbh we'd like to avoid that. It would increase the required manpower on the issue quite a bit (maintenance across sandbox, testing) and we don't have that. 

 

That seems to be the official response. In case you missed it spike. 

[pooroldspike 128]

4 hours ago, teabagginpeople said:

Often you're suggesting an ingame option - tbh we'd like to avoid that. It would increase the required manpower on the issue quite a bit (maintenance across sandbox, testing) and we don't have that. 

That seems to be the official response. In case you missed it spike. 

 

Thanks mate, I saw it when Oukej posted it, but that doesn't mean we have to roll over and accept it..;)

Hey Bohemia I'm retired and spend 10 hours a day on the computer 24/7, so if you want to send me stuff to playtest let me know. I'm currently on the 'Towards Berlin' wargame development team and am also helping develop the Airport Madness 3D air traffic game but have got plenty of time to test anything else.  And I've been wargaming/flight simming for 34 years at various clubs, I've been around..:)

My credentials-

BLITZKRIEG CLUB

 

 

 

 

RUGGED DEFENSE CLUB

 

 

 

 
 

[b501 7]

Just logged onto Arma for the first time in 30 days, thanks Bohemia for making the jet bias more obvious than ever. Happy to see some familiar faces in this thread though, glad my feeling of dejection is shared by many. Fix this shit, old camera or Im tapping out.

[SharpWave 9]

Just wanted to add another vote for the option to revert to 1.68 3rd person camera.

[Firebird-B4L 51]

@Spike

 

Nice collection of awards.  In your honest opinion, which camera option makes most sense based on your current understanding of the situation and what should BI do in this situation?

[RacerX 55]

On 6/3/2017 at 2:42 PM, oukej said:

new properties in viewPilot (and other viewXY) are
speedZoomMaxSpeed
speedZoomMaxFOV
 

Quote

from misconducts youtube channel: no they said they have unlocked the configuration of the camera and that WE could fix it and provide feedback. Basically they dumped the problem in our lap and said "here...you fix it!"

Ondřej Kužel4 days ago (edited)

@RacerX Well... no.

 

Well yes! Like @PistFlyBoy said We fly em we don't script them. So yeah THIS WAS dumped in our lap "You want the camera fixed? Write a mod and fix it yourself!" What kind of crap is that? We aren't the developers you guys are. And the config options are there so why hasn't there been a 1.68 like hotfix released yet? I shouldn't have to run a mod to get a correct camera. My server doesn't allow us to run just any mods. So what I have to go find another server also? Let me guess "ask the admins to allow the mod right?" All these problems because you guys wont fix the problem correctly

EDIT: so what are the correct settings for the camera to make it like 1.68? Have you guys tested that yet?

[PistFlyBoy 15]

Really sad, as a customer  to be treated like this.

@RacerX @Misconductsummed it up pretty well.

 

You have a bunch of unhappy LOYAL customer, who bought your products not even for the 3 jets or for the couple of extra weapon or helicopters, cause this game runs on MODS,

but TO SUPPORT YOU AND YOUR DEVELOPMENT!

 

And this is what we get, a slap to the face, consisting in some sarcasm of putting 2 lines of codes and basically say good luck.

We coming to your website giving you some negative feedback in the interest of the game, and our game experience.

Negative feedback isn’t always easy to deal with, I get it, while it’s much more comfortable dealing with compliments. Even if feedback is negative, customers are engaging with you. If they didn’t care, or it didn’t matter, they wouldn’t bother.

Also, the fact that people leave negative feedback doesn’t necessarily mean that you are in the wrong.

But if you are wrong, you’ve been handed a golden opportunity to get it right next time.

Just look at Star Citizen development, look how open and involving their player base into feedback.

 

Anyway this is going beyond the Camera, because this doesn't only consist into the camera, we talk about a lot of stuff, VTOL, Lunchers and so on and going totally off-topic, but some friends that i speak to on a daily basis and we used to fly EVERY SINGLE DAY, and we didn't touch arma since the update, showed me how this is getting upsetting.

 

My best Regards

And Good luck.

 

[Harrison Clark 3]

Hey guys I have not read through the entire thread and was just wondering what the hell has happened to the helicopter physics and camera. I have 2160 hours almost entirely spent flying and this recent update has made helicopters so unbearable for me that I have actually had to stop playing for the time being. They feel really awkward to fly now as they feel really unresponsive (Most obvious when flying the humming bird - a helicopter that used to be incredibly manoeuvrable) and the camera is doing a load of wacky things. Its a real shame because I've been playing this game since day one and have opted to pay for all the dlcs that I never even use just to support the developers only to be hit with such a massive change without any warning or explanation.

[oukej 2910]

2 hours ago, PistFlyBoy said:

a slap to the face, consisting in some sarcasm of putting 2 lines of codes and basically say good luck

This seems like a misunderstanding. At no point I've implied that we no longer care about the issue.

Please understand that solving this issue is different from fixing a bug. We've made what we believed was an improvement to the camera tech - a less rigid, smoother camera, with better awareness of the vehicle's flight vector, sensation of its motion and a bit more of a "physical" feel. We've staged in on Dev-branch for 2 months, 14 days as a Release candidate. We've released it with 1.70. We've received negative feedback, got data and we've rushed in with another small update to solve the primary objection - the lost awareness when landing.

We do acknowledge the other feedback too - be it seasickness or just the change itself altering perception of the motion within perfected, pinpoint accurate maneuvering routines. We don't have a resolution for that yet. Please bear with us.
 

[Harrison Clark 3]

32 minutes ago, oukej said:

This seems like a misunderstanding. At no point I've implied that we no longer care about the issue.

Please understand that solving this issue is different from fixing a bug. We've made what we believed was an improvement to the camera tech - a less rigid, smoother camera, with better awareness of the vehicle's flight vector, sensation of its motion and a bit more of a "physical" feel. We've staged in on Dev-branch for 2 months, 14 days as a Release candidate. We've released it with 1.70. We've received negative feedback, got data and we've rushed in with another small update to solve the primary objection - the lost awareness when landing.

We do acknowledge the other feedback too - be it seasickness or just the change itself altering perception of the motion within perfected, pinpoint accurate maneuvering routines. We don't have a resolution for that yet. Please bear with us.
 

The solution is to just to make an option for users to switch back to the old camera system, pretty simple. This has literally ruined the game for me and I can't believe that the dev team would do something like this without giving an option for people to revert back to the old system. 

[pooroldspike 128]

20 hours ago, romille1 said:

@Spike

 

Nice collection of awards.  In your honest opinion, which camera option makes most sense based on your current understanding of the situation and what should BI do in this situation?

 

Well some people will want to lynch me for saying so, but I like the 1.70 hotfixed 3rd-p 'fluid horizon' view because it gives a realistic sense of g-force, mass and inertia. 

Oukej said earlier that the feedback from jet jocks indicates they like it too.

At a guess I'd estimate about half of all chopper pilots also like it.

The only people who don't like it are the fast and low chopper flyers who preferred the way they could thread choppers like a needle through trees etc with absolute precision with 1.68, but they're in a minority.

So on the whole, the majority of Arma3 jet/heli pilots like1.70 hotfixed, and Boh knows it makes good business sense to give the majority what they want.

But as me and a bunch of other people have said before, the ideal solution would be for Boh to slot 1.68 back into the game alongside 1.70 hotfixed and give us a menu preference option to use whichever of the 2 views we liked, but surprisingly they say it can't be done, maybe their programmers are not the all-knowing gods we once thought they were..;)

Pity because every flight sim I've seen has at least 2 camera views, so by only having 1, Arma3 is lagging far behind the rest.

 

 

[pooroldspike 128]

3 hours ago, Harrison Clark said:

..I have 2160 hours almost entirely spent flying and this recent update has made helicopters so unbearable for me that I have actually had to stop playing for the time being.

 

Yes, the original 1.70 update made them almost unflyable and people were puking over their keyboards with airsickness, but to their credit Boh released a 1.70 hotfix which improved things a lot, so make sure you've got the hotfix installed and you can cut right down on the airsick pills..:)

However, some chopper pilots (including you) prefer the old 1.68 view, but Bohemia seem to be saying it's gone forever and that's what most of the angry complaints in this thread are about, so unless Boh change their minds, 1.70 hotfixed is going to be the only view in town.