Fixed Wing Flight Model (dev branch)

[roberthammer 582]

VTOLs in general are OKish ,but i would like to see some more power and speed in VTOL mode because atm they are rather slow and sluggish

[x3kj 1247]

this is due to the artificial degradation of controll effectiveness at slow speed. lift-off-speed is determined by the vtol token in the configs (you can use higher numbers than 1 for this).

[razor6014 35]

look i understand that in foward back direction the aircraft is slughish .. but left right and up down  roll and yaw should be a bit better ... pitch is understandably slugish due to the position of the rotors

[oukej 2910]

this is due to the artificial degradation of controll effectiveness at slow speed. lift-off-speed is determined by the vtol token in the configs (you can use higher numbers than 1 for this).

Not exactly.

The aileron/elevator/rudderCoef are configured to roughly reflect what happens to control surface authority with lower/higher airspeed, more/less drag and lift.

But for VTOLs these are not really taken into account when in the hover mode.

So there were 3 new properties added that say how agile the airplane will be in the hover mode. They are probably self-explanatory.

   VTOLYawInfluence = 9.0;
   VTOLPitchInfluence = 3.0;
   VTOLRollInfluence = 11.0;

(For now) We had to limit the VTOL responsiveness in pitch due to some AI issues. But otherwise it allowed us to do VTOLs more interesting than ever before (just give the old A2 Osprey a shot, you'll feel the difference immediately) ;)

Also there's an old vtol property which says what kind of take-off or landing the airplane can perform.

1.     VTOL - normal takeoff by default, vertical takeoff with autohover on
2.     STOVL - normal takeoff by default, short takeoff with authover on
3.     VTOL (with forced vectoring near ground) - short takeoff by default, vertical takeoff with authover on.

In real life (or Arma 2 :D) you'd want to use 1 for F-35 (some variants...without much load), 2 for Harrier and 3 for Osprey (that needs to keep the nacelles up in STOL). Just fyi vtol=1 got borken, so it doesn't work atm as it should.

The lift-off speed can be slightly influenced by thrustCoef and also by the mass of the vehicle itself, but there's no property so far to have direct control over the vertical speed in hover.

Talking about these... here's a promise for flight model documentation on wiki soon(ish) ;)

[MrFies 20]

Not exactly.

The aileron/elevator/rudderCoef are configured to roughly reflect what happens to control surface authority with lower/higher airspeed, more/less drag and lift.

But for VTOLs these are not really taken into account when in the hover mode.

So there were 3 new properties added that say how agile the airplane will be in the hover mode. They are probably self-explanatory.

   VTOLYawInfluence = 9.0;
   VTOLPitchInfluence = 3.0;
   VTOLRollInfluence = 11.0;

(For now) We had to limit the VTOL responsiveness in pitch due to some AI issues. But otherwise it allowed us to do VTOLs more interesting than ever before (just give the old A2 Osprey a shot, you'll feel the difference immediately) ;)

Also there's an old vtol property which says what kind of take-off or landing the airplane can perform.

1.     VTOL - normal takeoff by default, vertical takeoff with autohover on
2.     STOVL - normal takeoff by default, short takeoff with authover on
3.     VTOL (with forced vectoring near ground) - short takeoff by default, vertical takeoff with authover on.

In real life (or Arma 2 :D) you'd want to use 1 for F-35 (some variants...without much load), 2 for Harrier and 3 for Osprey (that needs to keep the nacelles up in STOL). Just fyi vtol=1 got borken, so it doesn't work atm as it should.

The lift-off speed can be slightly influenced by thrustCoef and also by the mass of the vehicle itself, but there's no property so far to have direct control over the vertical speed in hover.

Talking about these... here's a promise for flight model documentation on wiki soon(ish) ;)

so in other words the VTOL Performance will get improved ?

[NoPOW 59]

'Autohover'-indicator is missing from the HUD of the VTOL's...

[Jnr4817 215]

The Caesar TBB Propeller Plane stalls to easy, needs to go about 20% faster(atleast ingame how it feels when flying), and needs better handling at all phases of flight. Landing lights would be awesome, if they are available I couldn't get it to work. Collision lights either. Autopilot would be helpful and so would adding forced trim.

 

Thanks,

Reed

[dragon01 902]

Flying the VTOLs looks fine, though I do have a complaint. When I spawned the CSAT infantry transport VTOL (AI controlled) off the coast of Stratis and ordered it (via the "transport unload" waypoint) to land on the airfield next to me and unload infantry it had onboard, it overshot and had to circle around for a short time until it finally aligned itself well enough to land. It would be preferable if it just slowed down and landed on the first pass. Note, that was the preview branch, not the devbranch (didn't test on that yet).

[five_seven5-7 56]

maybe im making confusion, but in Arma 2 there weren't controls to switch the vectored thrust, instead of using the auto-hover function cant find in the plane controls section. 

 

The STOVL are better flying than the fixed wing, got chills flying the Caesar BTT.

[dragon01 902]

ArmA2 was pretty much the same as ArmA3, except perhaps in how granular the control was. "Autohover" (either from the action menu or helicopter controls keybinds) in VTOLs has always meant VTOL mode. You can control rotor/jet angle with the "flaps up/down" keys or actions. I recall being able to do that in A2 as well (though it might have been a mod).

[x3kj 1247]

 

You can control rotor/jet angle with the "flaps up/down" keys or actions. I recall being able to do that in A2 as well (though it might have been a mod).

No that's not true (unless they changed it just today?).

 

You have 2 options with vtol:

Enabled autohover -> This puts you into 100% VTOL mode (rotors go to "up" position in case of blackfish or MV-22).

Disabled autohover -> this is the automatic mode. When you slow down to a certain amount, the VTOL gradually kicks in. The slower, the more vtol amount. If you accelerate, at a certain speed it will automatically transition to full forward flight. For heavy VTOL vehicles this can be a bit of a problem, as you spend quite a while in "vtol limbo" where you have to pitch forward alot and drop altitude to be able to quickly transition to full forward flight. Would be good if there was a command to enforce a transition to forward flight.

[Max255 59]

It is true, it's just doesn't work right away from what  I saw. After the first takeoff it should work fine in autohover mode with full range of motion for manual control if not on ground.

[x3kj 1247]

Doesn't matter if full flaps, half, or no flaps. I have flown such a long time with my own vtols by now, i should have noticed if there was any connection between vtol and flaps, but i didn't...  unless they changed anything in the last 24h, that's where it's at.

[Beagle 684]

ArmA2 was pretty much the same as ArmA3, except perhaps in how granular the control was. "Autohover" (either from the action menu or helicopter controls keybinds) in VTOLs has always meant VTOL mode. You can control rotor/jet angle with the "flaps up/down" keys or actions. I recall being able to do that in A2 as well (though it might have been a mod).

That's right once you activate auto hover the nozzles or engine gondolas are controlled instead of the flaps in ArmA II. It's not a mod.

[NoPOW 59]

 

Tweaked: The vectoring and auto-hover actions are now separated for VTOLs

 

I'm a little confused here:

 

The options for Thrust Vector Control are on or off; and when it's on, you have the option to auto-hover?

If so, how does one activate auto-hover?

There is no entry in the context menu, and mapped keys do not respond...

 

And a small request:

I'm fairly sure this is already on your to-do list, but at the moment there is no possibility to map TVC on/off to a key.

[xxgetbuck123 945]

Doesn't matter if full flaps, half, or no flaps. I have flown such a long time with my own vtols by now, i should have noticed if there was any connection between vtol and flaps, but i didn't...  unless they changed anything in the last 24h, that's where it's at.

 

Even in Arma 2 I've been able to change the angle tilt of the prop on any VTOL aircraft using the flaps. I've been using the Thrustmaster A10 HOTAS and its always been the case. Hope they don't change it cause its an awesome feature to manually change angle. 

[Rich_R 1087]

Been away for a week but was pleased to find the VTOL set up. Huge improvement and loving it!

 

Using the vectoring option, take off, switch off the Vectoring and fly around like a helo on steroids. I noticed a few people wanting the auto hover to land or commenting they couldn't land with the vectoring. Bearing in mind I've only played with it for about an hour I found the vectoring has made the NATO VTOL a perfect aircraft for lightning insertions.

 

Even with my limited flying abilities I was able to go from full forward flight, switch on vectoring, and using the joystick to steer (nose down for forward etc) and power to reduce height and flare, was able to land nearly as quickly as a helo, bearing in mind this is a VTOL aircraft and its size.

 

I've also read some people were concerned about the responsiveness. Having never flown in real life, it felt like an aircraft of this size would handle.I loved how the aircraft jutters when in 1st person if you bank too hard...very nice effect.

 

The things I would personally change or add,

• the rotors start to tilt up if you fly to close to the ground (NAP of the earth stuff) losing speed - Not sure if this can change
• The ability to drop one vehicle at a time (mentioned before I know)
• The option to move from the loaded aircraft into the cockpit (any of the seats)
• Activate a mode for dropping vehicles, when activated this gives an indication on the HUD where the cargo would land at the given height and speed. Sort of like bombing telemetry
• A tracking radar for where vehicles dropped, this can be done by forcing the view onto the parachutes or on the aircraft radar itself
• More a sound issue, but the NATO VTOL suffers from the same sound config, when in 3rd person the engine sounds are barely minimal but when inside, they're pretty loud

Nice work!

[dragon01 902]

That's right once you activate auto hover the nozzles or engine gondolas are controlled instead of the flaps in ArmA II. It's not a mod.

Thanks. I remember it not being so, too, so I wondered. It was probably an early version (my first ArmA experience was AII demo).

[phunkmaz 3]

Haven't flown the VTOL yet but regarding the Caesar BTT and all the other fixed wings: The FM hasn't changed. It still feels unrealistic, unnatural and not right in many aspects. A simple example:

 

What i would expect: Banking a straight flying plane to the left or right -> The plane starts slipping to the roll-direction and also starts to pull its nose slightly down (if it is trimmed neutral).

What i actualy get: The plane just keeps flying its old straight direction. That's it. No Side-slip. A fundamental part of flight-physics not existing.

 

What i would expect: In a final approach i lower the flaps to full, plane decelerates, i raise the throttle to maintain a clean approach-speed.

What i actualy get: Doesn't matter if i lower flaps to half or full, they have no effect. It's also almost impossible to maintain a speed. Throttle (i have the Warthog HOTAS Throttle Unit) is to imprecisely.

 

What i would expect: I push my throttle to 25% (Throttle (Analog)) -> Plane starts accellerating slightly.

What i actualy get: Throttle-Axis starts at 50%, have to push it to 100% that it even starts rolling. Most of the time i'm instantly at 100km/h and more.

 

Speaking for myself, i don't want a complex FM like in X-Plane, DCS or even WT Sim-Mode. It just should feel more intuitive and natural. Even a Fly-By-Wire controlled plane wouldn't do what we actually have in A3.

And it doesn't matter if i use mouse/keyboard or my full simulator-setup, the result is the same.

 

And please, don't think that Auto-Rudder whould do the magic. It doesn't change the FM but the way you control the plane with mouse/keyboard. The result with stick, throttle and rudder whould be the same.

 

Cheers

[x3kj 1247]

 

What i actualy get: Throttle-Axis starts at 50%, have to push it to 100% that it even starts rolling. Most of the time i'm instantly at 100km/h and more.

that is actually a goof of the controll settings. Supposedly you can bind the forward axis to both accelerate and decelerate for planes, then it uses the fully throttle range (iirc).

[Retch 15]

I reall like the idea of an advanced flight model for FW, so keep up the good ideas.

My question is what do you guys think about the auto-vortexing? Is there a way to disable it?

Would greatly apreciate any help and comments.

 

Retch

[NoPOW 59]

Bug on today's DEV:

 

The context menu shows 'vectoring off' while 'off', and vise versa...

 

It's not supposed to be an indication, but an action.

[sammael 366]

I would like to ask a question about UAV. When choosing the automatic flight altitude  2000 meters - it is not possible to see  anything through  camera (see and then direct the laser at the target) because the clouds close review. Even when exposed to the maximum view distance in option (12000). If the way to fix this?

[Retch 15]

I would like to ask a question about UAV. When choosing the automatic flight altitude  2000 meters - it is not possible to see  anything through  camera (see and then direct the laser at the target) because the clouds close review. Even when exposed to the maximum view distance in option (12000). If the way to fix this?

I'm afraid you can't unless you change the weather, clouds are usually at about 1-2km height and if you fly above them you obiviously can't look at the ground.

Same for any Aircraft but there for, depending against what Kind of enemy you fight, you can use the clouds for cover.

 

Retch

[oukej 2910]

In the recent dev-branch updates there has been quite a few changes to flight model of VTOLs, Caesar BTT and Fenghuang drone and AI handling of the airplanes.

While the changes still don't make it perfect and flawless, we're interested to hear your feedback. Please give it a try and let us know, how you like flying these beasts now and what issues you've encountered!

Thanks a lot!

Ceaser BTT racing variant received some custom performance upgrades...check it out ;)