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Pfff, the white helmets.. the same ones the Us gave an oscar to... sums it up perfectly.

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@Delta Hawk No, peshmerga is iraqi kurdistan army and pkk(kurdistan workers party) is a terror group, but there are so many connections between them. They exchange supplies and men, and work together in iraq, just their leaders are different. One is an organized army other is a terrorist group. Pkk use the name YPG when they cross the border, same fighters with different uniforms. There might be people who want to defend their home in iraq, but there are also shit loads of terrorists with them

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19 hours ago, katipo66 said:

 

Right, thats why the 911 families are wanting to sue the Saudi Government for being the principal financier of those couple of terrorists.. and the logic to go invade and destroy another country on fabricated lies murdering innocent civilians is criminal.

 

9/11 didn't have much to do with the Invasion of Iraq.  It was a catalysis for reasons you probably refuse to consider, but two different situations.  It also doesn't make any sense to bomb Saudi Arabia.  That's like us bomb Pakistan just because they let osama hide in their country.  Also should we bomb ourselves since we support osama and saddam back in the 80s?

 

7 hours ago, spooky lynx said:

Maybe. Or maybe not. We still don't have any investigation as I've said.

*pictures*

 

By showing these pictures you're trying to do one of two things, implying that the chemical attack was fabricate or trying to elicit anger towards America and encourage tin foil hat loonies who believe in every conspiracy theory that is anti-American.  For the sake of this debate I'll assume it's the first.

 

Every single civilized nation, and Syria and Russia, and the humanitarian aid groups involved in this, and the United Nations, is saying about 86 people died from chemical weapons.  So...basically, you found a bunch of unfounded and unverified photos on the internet that you don't know where they came from and drew your own conclusion that certain aspects of this incident were fabricated...despite what everyone else is saying.

 

Reread that slowly and tell me if anyone should take those photos seriously.  Also, how does the photo of the old man add to your point?  Just because he's missing a head scarf?  And the people using a water hose to wash off bodies, as if sarin can't be washed off?  And for reference here is an article on a factchecker website about the RFS staged photo, which has nothing to do with America http://www.fakenewschecker.com/fake-news/british-govt-funded-outlet-offered-journalist-17000-month-produce-propaganda-syrian-0

 

5 hours ago, Ltf said:

@Delta Hawk No, peshmerga is iraqi kurdistan army and pkk(kurdistan workers party) is a terror group, but there are so many connections between them. They exchange supplies and men, and work together in iraq, just their leaders are different. One is an organized army other is a terrorist group. Pkk use the name YPG when they cross the border, same fighters with different uniforms. There might be people who want to defend their home in iraq, but there are also shit loads of terrorists with them

 

That's unfortunate the hear.  I wish you all could reconcile your differences.  The Peshmerga seems to be the only people in Iraq willing to fight and would be a good ally for Turkey fighting against ISIS.

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@Delta HawkYou know I see the spin going on here and I do understand. But he is right to a certain degree. We DONT know for sure who launched the chem attack if you think about it. I mean we have a pretty good idea based on Asad's track record. But think about it has our govt released any evidence of who did it? What happend to the intel about the plane being loaded and the same syrian plane using CW's over that civ village. The same night as we launched the airstikes our media said they had this intel. I have yet to see it have you? I am not say spooky is right I am saying if somebody wanted the US involved in Syria what better way then to use CW knowing Asad would take the blame and the US would respond. The possibility of us being hoodwinked here ,with out this hard intel of that syrian plane, does exist

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14 minutes ago, Delta Hawk said:

That's unfortunate the hear.  I wish you all could reconcile your differences.  The Peshmerga seems to be the only people in Iraq willing to fight and would be a good ally for Turkey fighting against ISIS.

That will not be possible as long as they don't stop helping terrorists and I don't think they have enough power or desire to get rid of them

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18 minutes ago, Delta Hawk said:

 

9/11 didn't have much to do with the Invasion of Iraq.  It was a catalysis for reasons you probably refuse to consider, but two different situations.  It also doesn't make any sense to bomb Saudi Arabia.  That's like us bomb Pakistan just because they let osama hide in their country.  Also should we bomb ourselves since we support osama and saddam back in the 80s?

 

 

By showing these pictures you're trying to do one of two things, implying that the chemical attack was fabricate or trying to elicit anger towards America and encourage tin foil hat loonies who believe in every conspiracy theory that is anti-American.  For the sake of this debate I'll assume it's the first.

 

Every single civilized nation, and Syria and Russia, and the humanitarian aid groups involved in this, and the United Nations, is saying about 86 people died from chemical weapons.  So...basically, you found a bunch of unfounded and unverified photos on the internet that you don't know where they came from and drew your own conclusion that certain aspects of this incident were fabricated...despite what everyone else is saying.

 

Reread that slowly and tell me if anyone should take those photos seriously.  Also, how does the photo of the old man add to your point?  Just because he's missing a head scarf?  And the people using a water hose to wash off bodies, as if sarin can't be washed off?  And for reference here is an article on a factchecker website about the RFS staged photo, which has nothing to do with America http://www.fakenewschecker.com/fake-news/british-govt-funded-outlet-offered-journalist-17000-month-produce-propaganda-syrian-0

 

 

That's unfortunate the hear.  I wish you all could reconcile your differences.  The Peshmerga seems to be the only people in Iraq willing to fight and would be a good ally for Turkey fighting against ISIS.

Except that Turkey is controlled by a tyrannical leader who has threatened to kill all Europeans if they dont allow him to campaign in their countries for his country to re-write thier constitution and give him all the power he wants. He specifically stated that all Europeans would not be safe in their own streets.... Also, the Kurds are the ONLY group that isnt out there mass murdering all Christians.

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4 minutes ago, RacerX said:

@Delta HawkYou know I see the spin going on here and I do understand. But he is right to a certain degree. We DONT know for sure who launched the chem attack if you think about it. I mean we have a pretty good idea based on Asad's track record. But think about it has our govt released any evidence of who did it? What happend to the intel about the plane being loaded and the same syrian plane using CW's over that civ village. The same night as we launched the airstikes our media said they had this intel. I have yet to see it have you? I am not say spooky is right I am saying if somebody wanted the US involved in Syria what better way then to use CW knowing Asad would take the blame and the US would respond. The possibility of us being hoodwinked here ,with out this hard intel of that syrian plane, does exist

Also, why would Assad risk Russia's vengeance by using Chemical Weapons? Russia is assisting Assad in this war  by his request. Do you not find it odd that Assad would do something that could incite Russia's Ire?

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2 minutes ago, linuxmaster9 said:

Also, why would Assad risk Russia's vengeance by using Chemical Weapons? Russia is assisting Assad in this war  by his request. Do you not find it odd that Assad would do something that could incite Russia's Ire?

well yes I do see it happening. Asad would do it if he knows Putin would be complacent. When Asad used CW the first time what did Putin do? And by complacent here is an example....Russia removed and destroyed all CW from Syria. Did they?

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9 minutes ago, RacerX said:

@Delta HawkYou know I see the spin going on here and I do understand. But he is right to a certain degree. We DONT know for sure who launched the chem attack if you think about it. I mean we have a pretty good idea based on Asad's track record. But think about it has our govt released any evidence of who did it? What happend to the intel about the plane being loaded and the same syrian plane using CW's over that civ village. The same night as we launched the airstikes our media said they had this intel. I have yet to see it have you? I am not say spooky is right I am saying if somebody wanted the US involved in Syria what better way then to use CW knowing Asad would take the blame and the US would respond. The possibility of us being hoodwinked here ,with out this hard intel of that syrian plane, does exist

 

Well seeing as both Russia and Syria have said Syria dropped a bomb that accidentally exploded a chemical weapon cache that somehow killed 86 people which they inadvertently admitted to indeed launching an attack and every single civilized country has said Assad order a chemical weapons attack, knowing the sick and demented history the Middle East has with WMDs and chemical weapons, and (nail in the coffin) chemical weapons need to be disperse, usually by air burst, to effectively kill people I have at this point in time, no reason to doubt that a Syrian attack jet did drop chemical weapons on a civilian population.  I'll admit it's not a fact, but rather an inference based on facts.

 

I do not believe Russia or Syria, despite their track record of being untrustyworthy, simply because of my basic understanding of how chemical weapons work. 

 

14 minutes ago, linuxmaster9 said:

Also, why would Assad risk Russia's vengeance by using Chemical Weapons? Russia is assisting Assad in this war  by his request. Do you not find it odd that Assad would do something that could incite Russia's Ire?

 

Yes, it seems really stupid for Assad to use chemical weapons and put Russia in that position.  It was also stupid for Syria to use chemical weapons in the first place.  It's also stupid and barbaric the middle east's use of chemical weapons on innocent civilians for the past few decades.  But did that stop them?

 

I don't know why Assad ordered the strike.  Maybe Assad ordered the strike to discourage remaining fighters, similar to how the US dropped the two atom bombs on Japan to discourage Japan from continuing the war or to simply test the new US administration.

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2 minutes ago, Delta Hawk said:

 

Well seeing as both Russia and Syria have said Syria dropped a bomb that accidentally exploded a chemical weapon cache that somehow killed 86 people which they inadvertently admitted to indeed launching an attack and every single civilized country has said Assad order a chemical weapons attack, knowing the sick and demented history the Middle East has with WMDs and chemical weapons, and (nail in the coffin) chemical weapons need to be disperse, usually by air burst, to effectively kill people I have at this point in time, no reason to doubt that a Syrian attack jet did drop chemical weapons on a civilian population.  I'll admit it's not a fact, but rather an inference based on facts.

 

I do not believe Russia or Syria, despite their track record of being untrustyworthy, simply because of my basic understanding of how chemical weapons work. 

 

 

Yes, it seems really stupid for Assad to use chemical weapons and put Russia in that position.  It was also stupid for Syria to use chemical weapons in the first place.  It's also stupid and barbaric the middle east's use of chemical weapons on innocent civilians for the past few decades.  But did that stop them?

 

I don't know why Assad ordered the strike.  Maybe Assad ordered the strike to discourage remaining fighters, similar to how the US dropped the two atom bombs on Japan to discourage Japan from continuing the war or to simply test the new US administration.

im thinking that perhaps Assad didnt actually order a chemical weapons strike. While I dont think Russia is the most amazing country on the planet......I also dont believe the MSM when they claim Russia is trying to take over the world and that we need to surround Russia with weapons and tanks and armies. Because that TOTALLY will calm down Russia when they see they are being surrounded and having Missiles pointed at them on their borders.

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29 minutes ago, linuxmaster9 said:

Except that Turkey is controlled by a tyrannical leader who has threatened to kill all Europeans if they dont allow him to campaign in their countries for his country to re-write thier constitution and give him all the power he wants. He specifically stated that all Europeans would not be safe in their own streets.... Also, the Kurds are the ONLY group that isnt out there mass murdering all Christians.

Right, everyone thinks like erdogan in Turkey just like how everyone thinks like trump in United States(dont take it wrong, I have no problems with Trump being president). He is just running out of votes and coming to an end, these are hopefully his last tries. And yeah, the so called "kurds" don't kill christians, they just take syrian people's houses and force them to fight together(doesn't matter against who) or move. I know that fsa is all about jihad against others in Syria and personally, I don't like people using religions as a fighting cause, but if we let the terrorists take the Syria-Turkey borders, everything will be worse for us. They are already shelling Turkey from there. Also I can't see any difference between your thought about sdf is good because they don't kill christians and a jihadist's thoughts. I'm sorry but you can't expect Turkey to sit there and wait it's turn

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17 minutes ago, Ltf said:

Right, everyone thinks like erdogan in Turkey just like how everyone thinks like trump in United States(dont take it wrong, I have no problems with Trump being president). He is just running out of votes and coming to an end, these are hopefully his last tries. And yeah, the so called "kurds" don't kill christians, they just take syrian people's houses and force them to fight together(doesn't matter against who) or move. I know that fsa is all about jihad against others in Syria and personally, I don't like people using religions as a fighting cause, but if we let the terrorists take the Syria-Turkey borders, everything will be worse for us. They are already shelling Turkey from there. Also I can't see any difference between your thought about sdf is good because they don't kill christians and a jihadist's thoughts. I'm sorry but you can't expect Turkey to sit there and wait it's turn

who is the SDF?

 

Syriac Military Council (MFS) is the major resistance faction in Syria outside of the YPG and PKK.

Syria has been for the longest time, the most accepting of Christians in the Arab nations. There are even huge Catholic monuments in Syria.

Christians in Syria make up about 11.2% of the population. The country's largest Christian denomination is the Orthodox Church of Antioch.

The city of Aleppo is believed to have the largest number of Christians in Syria. <-- fun fact.

In addition to their daily work, Syrian Christians also participate in volunteer activities in the less developed areas of Syria. As a result, Syrian Christians are generally viewed by other Syrians as an asset to the larger community. There were many Popes from Syria in fact.

 

Many Christian fighters are women as it is seen as a threat to ISIS and the FSA  because if they are killed by girls they believe “they won’t go to heaven”. 

By backing the "rebel forces" (ISIS and the FSA), we are supporting the Rape, Murder and mass genocide of Syrian Christians. Man, Woman and Child.

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25 minutes ago, linuxmaster9 said:

Many Christian fighters are women as it is seen as a threat to ISIS and the FSA  because if they are killed by girls they believe “they won’t go to heaven”. 

By backing the "rebel forces" (ISIS and the FSA), we are supporting the Rape, Murder and mass genocide of Syrian Christians. Man, Woman and Child.

You know, the SDF, syrian democratic forces which is combination of all these groups. And by backing SDF, United States supports the same crimes in another country. It doesn't matter if these groups are seperate, if they help to ypg and pkk, they are a threat to Turkey. As I said before, if they want to create a kurdistan there or defend their lives it's ok, but they can't attack Turkey or support attackers when doing it. Funny thing is, I'm a muslim and I had never heard that getting killed by females part before syrian war started. And you say "of Syrian Christians", you think only they are getting killed or raped? This war has nothing to do with religions, every side is being used by someone else, it's not a civil war anymore

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The outrage over this is California is hilarious honestly. It's like people here just completely ignore the fact we have been using very fine knives to influence things in Syria (and other places too), but as soon as we bring out a relatively small hammer, California goes nuts and wants to leave the US all over again... I love the casual American attitude of "well if it wasn't on the evening news, then it didn't happen" to our forces conducting operations all over the world silently. Too busy worrying about veganism here than actual world events in the big picture sense. I hate this state.

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2 hours ago, Delta Hawk said:

By showing these pictures you're trying to do one of two things, implying that the chemical attack was fabricate or trying to elicit anger towards America and encourage tin foil hat loonies who believe in every conspiracy theory that is anti-American.  For the sake of this debate I'll assume it's the first.

By showing this pictures I'm trying to show that it's naive to take all the info coming from anti-Asad side without the grain of salt. Asad isn't saint at all but he's also not stupid maniac as he's being portrayed by western media.

2 hours ago, Delta Hawk said:

Every single civilized nation, and Syria and Russia, and the humanitarian aid groups involved in this, and the United Nations, is saying about 86 people died from chemical weapons.

They would be alive if some countries did not try to intervene in the inner Syrian affairs and topple Asad.

2 hours ago, Delta Hawk said:

So...basically, you found a bunch of unfounded and unverified photos on the internet that you don't know where they came from and drew your own conclusion that certain aspects of this incident were fabricated...despite what everyone else is saying.

Missile strike had been ordered just this way so why are you surprised? Even the governments of certain countries made the accusation or Syrian regime based on some unverified info or some 'top secret' intel that will never be shown to the world. And this had happened for several times during the whole Syrian mess.

2 hours ago, Delta Hawk said:

Reread that slowly and tell me if anyone should take those photos seriously.

It is up to every user to choose what info does he prefer. I just bring another side.

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15 minutes ago, Mynock said:

The outrage over this is California is hilarious honestly. It's like people here just completely ignore the fact we have been using very fine knives to influence things in Syria (and other places too), but as soon as we bring out a relatively small hammer, California goes nuts and wants to leave the US all over again... I love the casual American attitude of "well if it wasn't on the evening news, then it didn't happen" to our forces conducting operations all over the world silently. Too busy worrying about veganism here than actual world events in the big picture sense. I hate this state.

Those same loons voted for the loon who wanted to establish a no-fly zone and strike Assad. I literally hate that state.

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If you think us sprinkling Shayrat Airbase with Tomahawks is the United States' entry into the Syrian war, then you haven't been paying attention for the last 6 years. 

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Folks, I know this is a very complex and emotive topic, and there is some fantastic and passionate debate happening here. Let's just make sure to keep it on topic and civil where possible. Please don't descend into attacking people of differing political views or using crude terminology to describe them as a couple of the last posts did ( these posts have been removed). Also this is not a thread to discuss climate change, the American electoral system, or anything else except the current situation in Syria.

 

I'm not issuing any warnings etc, as these discussions need to be had-but keep it civil guys and girls.

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12 hours ago, Delta Hawk said:

9/11 didn't have much to do with the Invasion of Iraq.  It was a catalysis for reasons you probably refuse to consider, but two different situations.  It also doesn't make any sense to bomb Saudi Arabia.  That's like us bomb Pakistan just because they let osama hide in their country.  Also should we bomb ourselves since we support osama and saddam back in the 80s?

 

Id consider perhaps Saddam dropping the dollar had a lot to do with it, same goes for Gaddafi,  the thing that gets my back up is the US got a hard on for "going after the terroists" where ever they are!! and formed coalitions getting other nations to also go and invade a country that had nothing to do with 911...  but when the 911 families who want to sue the the Saudi government for being the principal financier of the 911 attackers, the US govt is like... ahh yeah, were going to keep some potential evidence from you for as long as possible (some pesky 29 page report).

 

It seems to me, bullshit at its finest.

 

And now you have this guy in control of the most powerful military in the world getting all emotional about seeing dead Syrian babies (the same ones he banned from the country) he felt the needed to rain down $60 million worth of tomahawks and kill a few more Syrians, 9 of them civilians, 4 of them kids!? and potentially ignite the region to whole new level of pew pew.. all this on a theory, because there is still no evidence Assad used chemical weapons on his own people, it goes against all logic... its the same war drums, Iraq all over again.

 

And no im not anti American, i have great admiration for the Apache and also the Sioux :)

 

 

 

 

 

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I'm very eager to read all alternative theories coming from Russia explaining what happened there, as much as i found very entertaining the MH17's Russian theories.

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