ADV - ACE CPR

[SnakeDocc 72]

Yea I'm finding it very odd as well, and its rare enough that recreating it is difficult, next time it happens ill attempt to get all that info for you.

The only other thing I can think of is the part where they wake up for half a second during wound treatment is maybe Zeus toggling unconsciousness (for whatever reason) and that's messing with CPR when you do successfully stabilize them. 

[Belbo 461]

22 minutes ago, SnakeDocc said:

Yea im finding it very odd as well, and its rare enough that recreating it is difficult, next time it happens ill attempt to get all that info for you,

the only other thing i can think of is the part were they wake up for half a second during wound treatment is maybe its Zeus toggling unconsciousness (for whatever reason) and that's messing with cpr when you do successfully stabilise them. 

That might be. In that case probably the curator only toggles their unconscious-state without resetting their inRevive-state. Thus the revive timer still ticks down and kills them off somehow. That sounds like a problem that has to be a general ace problem then. Ask your curator to not do that (it's not good behaviour anyway).

Another possible cause might be that ace_medical_preventInstaDeath is set to false and patients simply die from some other kind of damage source during treatment. Waking up during wound treatment would suggest that the unconscious player is not (yet) in reviveState anyway. You can't wake up during reviveState at all - unless someone fiddles manually (or via script) with the unconscious-state.

What are your settings for ace_medical_maxReviveTime and adv_aceCPR_maxTime?

[SnakeDocc 72]

Yea I've talked to my Zeus's and checked on our settings which we set through the CBA settings user config PBO on the server ace med and cpr settings are all forced.

force ace_medical_preventInstaDeath = true;

force ace_medical_maxReviveTime = 800;

force adv_aceCPR_maxTime = 800;

 

On the note of damage source doing it, nothing shot, but he was on a staircase, and I think the other cases of it happening might of been in odd positions, possibly terrain/objects eating/killing the player when their state changes after successful CPR, I think I've had something with AEM a while ago, were sometimes you would get eaten by a wall so hard that even with instadeath off you still got sent to spec

[Belbo 461]

1 minute ago, SnakeDocc said:

On the note of damage source doing it, nothing shot, but he was on a staircase, and I think the other cases of it happening might of been in odd positions, possibly terrain/objects eating/killing the player when their state changes after successful CPR, I think I've had something with AEM a while ago, were sometimes you would get eaten by a wall so hard that even with instadeath off you still got sent to spec

That sounds by far the most reasonable explanation. I'd be grateful if you could try to recreate the problem and look into the specific factors that correlate to frequency of this behaviour occurring.

[MK84 42]

Would it be possible to limit AED usage to medical facility or vehicle only?

[Belbo 461]

22 minutes ago, MK84 said:

Would it be possible to limit AED usage to medical facility or vehicle only?

That should be no problem. For now I would just tie it to the ace_medical_useLocation_PAK setting or maybe even create a setting for that.

[Belbo 461]

Updated to version 1.5.2: https://github.com/Pergor/ADV_Medical/releases/download/1.5.2/adv_aceCPR.zip

ADDED: setting to enable AED usage only in medical facilities/medical vehicles/both/all.

[MK84 42]

8 hours ago, Belbo said:

Updated to version 1.5.2: https://github.com/Pergor/ADV_Medical/releases/download/1.5.2/adv_aceCPR.zip

ADDED: setting to enable AED usage only in medical facilities/medical vehicles/both/all.

Awesome! Thanks for the quick update. :D

[dannyinter1 0]

what i do when the patient has pulse?

[Belbo 461]

Then you'd better continue your treatment.

 

Take a look at https://ace3mod.com/wiki/feature/medical-system.html to know what to do.

[TheNightstalk3r 6]

Quick question,

 

In my unit, the question rose whether the ADV CPR / AED is active even when the ACE revive is disabled in enforced ACE3 Settings (CBA). One person claims it works with revive on or off and one claims it doesn't work with revive off. Could you shed some light on this?

[Belbo 461]

ADV - ACE CPR is active as long as you don't disable it via CBA settings. The CPR action however will just execute the standard ACE-function, if revive is not enabled. The AED can't be used if ace_medical_enableRevive == 0. So even though the mod is 'active' in itself, it's as if it wasn't there, as long ace_medical_enableRevive == 0.

https://github.com/Pergor/ADV_Medical/blob/master/adv_aceCPR/functions/fn_CPR_action.sqf

[Nichols 243]

First off @Belbo thanks for taking the time to make this and the other stuff you do for the Arma community. I have used your undercover script and I love the simplicity of it.  I have not used any of the medical stuff you made before and would like to know a little more about this before I just jump right in. In reading the thread and searching for the answers to my questions I am at a loss of how to implement them in a setting like what we have with our group. So let me lay a little groundwork here.

 

In our group we play with ACE medical on the advanced side; we don't use revive systems at all; and we have a medical area setup back at base with the express reason to transport critically wounded back to base for full treatment. Generally if we are out on an op and someone gets hit by enemy fire or they get blown up or seriously injured by an IED or mortar/artillery rounds our medics go into full medic mode; AFTER the firefight has died down. Which means that as the wounded person you are on your own to treat yourself as you are able and if you are mobile then to make your way to cover. If not then stay down and out of the fight but let us know when you gain consciousness again.

 

So now questions:

1. Can it work without revive timers? If so what settings do I need to adjust? If not would it be possible to make it work without revive timers?
2. Did I read correctly that you can set the max revive time to 20 minutes (aka 1200 seconds)?
3. How does this differentiate when you have a player that is down due to unconscious state due to severe wounds but they have been stabilized and are waiting on transport? Meaning what if someone has a tremendously low heart rate and BP due to severity of wounds received and the only way they are going to be brought back up is at a medical facility?
4. Does the animation lock the medic into the CPR functionality and not allow them to move on to other patients that might need help as well?

Thanks in advance for your reply.

[Nichols 243]

On 5/21/2018 at 12:01 PM, MK84 said:

Would it be possible to limit AED usage to medical facility or vehicle only?

 

@MK84 quick question mainly because I am just curious about the request you made to make it where you can only use an AED in a medical setting or vehicle? An AED is meant to be used ANYWHERE without the need for medical facility or medical vehicles. 

[Belbo 461]

37 minutes ago, Nichols said:

So now questions:

1. Can it work without revive timers? If so what settings do I need to adjust? If not would it be possible to make it work without revive timers?
2. Did I read correctly that you can set the max revive time to 20 minutes (aka 1200 seconds)?
3. How does this differentiate when you have a player that is down due to unconscious state due to severe wounds but they have been stabilized and are waiting on transport? Meaning what if someone has a tremendously low heart rate and BP due to severity of wounds received and the only way they are going to be brought back up is at a medical facility?
4. Does the animation lock the medic into the CPR functionality and not allow them to move on to other patients that might need help as well?

Thanks in advance for your reply.

1. No. The sole purpose of ADV - ACE CPR is to be able to get players out of ace_medical_inReviveState. ace_medical_inReviveState is not available as long as ace_medical_enableRevive == 0. With ace_medical_enableRevive > 0 comes ace_medical_maxReviveTime automatically. Default value for that is 120 seconds. Without ace_medical_enableRevive there's absolutely no point in using ADV - ACE CPR. If you're dead, you're dead, nothing CPR can do about that. Only ace_medical_inReviveState can mitigate deadness, as long as ace_medical_maxReviveTime hasn't run out.

2. You can set the adv_aceCPR_maxTime with cba settings to 3600 sec. max. However after postInit you can change it via missionnamespace setVariable ["adv_aceCPR_maxTime",VALUE,true]; to any value you want. Doesn't make much sense though if it's higher than ace_medical_maxReviveTime. So maybe missionnamespace setVariable ["adv_aceCPR_maxTime",VALUE min (missionNamespace getVariable ["ace_medica_maxReviveTime",120]),true]; would be the way to go.

3. As long as they're not in ace_medical_inReviveState there's nothing that ADV - ACE CPR does to a patient. And neither does ACE. Players in unconscious state might die or go into ace_medical_inReviveState (if available), depending on their blood loss or the medication used, though. adv_aceCPR_maxTime is only relevant if patient is in ace_medical_inReviveState. Next update will make this setting also work for ace_medical_inCardiacArrest, which it doesn't right now because I overlooked that possibility. In that case if your patient is not in ace_medical_inReviveState, but in ace_medical_inCardiacArrest, you can get him out of ace_medical_inCardiacArrest as long as adv_aceCPR_maxTime hasn't passed. ace_medical_enableRevive still has to be > 0.

4. The animation for CPR is 15 seconds, the animation for AED is 8 seconds. Every ACE action can be interrupted by pressing the ESC-key. The action will not be completed then. You can't move around while any ACE action is executed, unless you interrupt it.

[Nichols 243]

1 minute ago, Belbo said:

1. No. The sole purpose of ADV - ACE CPR is to be able to get players out of ace_medical_inReviveState. ace_medical_inReviveState is not available as long as ace_medical_enableRevive == 0. With ace_medical_enableRevive > 0 comes ace_medical_maxReviveTime automatically. Default value for that is 120 seconds. Without ace_medical_enableRevive there's absolutely no point in using ADV - ACE CPR. If you're dead, you're dead, nothing CPR can do about that. Only ace_medical_inReviveState can mitigate deadness, as long as ace_medical_maxReviveTime hasn't run out.

2. You can set the adv_aceCPR_maxTime with cba settings to 3600 sec. max. However after postInit you can change it via missionnamespace setVariable ["adv_aceCPR_maxTime",VALUE,true]; to any value you want. Doesn't make much sense though if it's higher than ace_medical_maxReviveTime. So maybe missionnamespace setVariable ["adv_aceCPR_maxTime",VALUE min (missionNamespace getVariable ["ace_medica_maxReviveTime",120]),true]; would be the way to go.

3. As long as they're not in ace_medical_inReviveState there's nothing that ADV - ACE CPR does to a patient. And neither does ACE. Players in unconscious state might die or go into ace_medical_inReviveState (if available), depending on their blood loss or the medication used, though. adv_aceCPR_maxTime is only relevant if patient is in ace_medical_inReviveState. Next update will make this setting also work for ace_medical_inCardiacArrest, which it doesn't right now because I overlooked that possibility. In that case if your patient is not in ace_medical_inReviveState, but in ace_medical_inCardiacArrest though, you can't get him out of ace_medical_inCardiacArrest after adv_aceCPR_maxTime. ace_medical_enableRevive still has to be > 0.

4. The animation for CPR is 15 seconds, the animation for AED is 8 seconds. Every ACE action can be interrupted by pressing the ESC-key. The action will not be completed then. You can't move around while any ACE action is executed, unless you interrupt it.

 

Thanks for the quick answer. The answer on the first question pretty much covered what I was thinking. Wish we could use something like this but due to the way we play with our medical settings its a non-starter for us.

[Belbo 461]

I noticed a couple of superfluous checks for ace_medical_enableRevive, that don't really add anything. I will remove a couple of them with the next update. That way you can use the ADV - ACE CPR version of CPR (with all the probabilites and settings) or the AED to get someone out of ace_medical_inCardiacArrest even if ace_medical_enableRevive == 0. Just keep in mind that if a patient is longer than between 120 and 720 seconds in ace_medical_inCardiacArrest, he will die, if ace_medical_enableRevive == 0. That's hard-coded in https://github.com/acemod/ACE3/blob/master/addons/medical/functions/fnc_setCardiacArrest.sqf

[Nichols 243]

3 hours ago, Belbo said:

I noticed a couple of superfluous checks for ace_medical_enableRevive, that don't really add anything. I will remove a couple of them with the next update. That way you can use the ADV - ACE CPR version of CPR (with all the probabilites and settings) or the AED to get someone out of ace_medical_inCardiacArrest even if ace_medical_enableRevive == 0. Just keep in mind that if a patient is longer than between 120 and 720 seconds in ace_medical_inCardiacArrest, he will die, if ace_medical_enableRevive == 0. That's hard-coded in https://github.com/acemod/ACE3/blob/master/addons/medical/functions/fnc_setCardiacArrest.sqf

 

Sounds good to me @Belbo we'll give it a try once you get that update pushed out. Till then we can wait.

 

[MK84 42]

22 hours ago, Nichols said:

 

@MK84 quick question mainly because I am just curious about the request you made to make it where you can only use an AED in a medical setting or vehicle? An AED is meant to be used ANYWHERE without the need for medical facility or medical vehicles. 

It's for game balancing. :)

[kOepi 10]

Great mod, thank you very much.

4 suggestions:

1. add another ruler "maximum time for successfull AED"
because the time frame for CPR and AED survivial is different (3% success rate difference per minute -wikipedia)

2. change amount editable in "seconds to be added with each successful CPR",
values below 15 seconds are not enterable ( I want to enter "1" second ).
because CPR and AED usage is not increasing the time frame IRL, it is just increasing the success rate
in the same time frame.

3. add ruler "splints can be applied by"
4. add ruler "AED can be applied by"

 

thank you for your attention

[Belbo 461]

12 minutes ago, kOepi said:

1. add another ruler "maximum time for successfull AED"
because the time frame for CPR and AED survivial is different (3% success rate difference per minute -wikipedia)

2. change amount editable in "seconds to be added with each successful CPR",
values below 15 seconds are not enterable ( I want to enter "1" second ).
because CPR and AED usage is not increasing the time frame IRL, it is just increasing the success rate
in the same time frame.

1. No. In my view this doesn't serve any game play purpose. The adv_aceCPR_maxTime is solely implemented out of balancing reasons, so you can implement a higher ace_medical_maxReviveTime if you want to have specific medevac units that can heal a player even after CPR or AED are no longer usable. RL time frames have no value for me and aren't a reference of any kind. Additionally a single settings is better to handle and easier to explain.

2. Setting a value of 15 will add between +/-3 seconds to your revive counter. The animation takes 15 seconds, so the random factor may add or substract from your resulting time remaining. Again, realism has nothing to do with CPR in Arma 3. If you want realism, disable revive.

[kOepi 10]

2 minutes ago, Belbo said:

1. ...  if you want to have specific medevac units that can heal a player even after CPR or AED are no longer usable. RL time frames have no value for me and aren't a reference of any kind.

2. Setting a value of 15 will add between +/-3 seconds to your revive counter. The animation takes 15 seconds, so the random factor may add or substract from your resulting time remaining. Again, realism has nothing to do with CPR in Arma 3. If you want realism, disable revive.

1. The same way you wanted to balance and distinct the time value between MEDEVAC and soldiers, I suggest to distinct between MEDEVAC, soldiers and medics. RL references are the truest frame for balancing. And that is all that ACE does, balancing according to real life and you started this mod, because even that ACE mod is insufficiently balanced for you (as you stated it).
2. If I could set it to 1 or 5 seconds, it would need one person to continously perform CPR, while the other one is treating the patient or getting a doctor => enforces teamwork.
It would also allow for a work-around to set a fixed timeframe. I dont want absolute realism, I want balancing, teamwork, different roles with different abilities in the same relation as it exists in the real world.

[Belbo 461]

1 minute ago, kOepi said:

1. The same way you wanted to balance and distinct the time value between MEDEVAC and soldiers, I suggest to distinct between MEDEVAC, soldiers and medics. RL references are the truest frame for balancing. And that is all that ACE does, balancing according to real life and you started this mod, because even that ACE mod is insufficiently balanced for you (as you stated it).
2. If I could set it to 1 or 5 seconds, it would need one person to continously perform CPR, while the other one is treating the patient or getting a doctor => enforces teamwork.
It would also allow for a work-around to set a fixed timeframe. I dont want absolute realism, I want balancing, teamwork, different roles with different abilities in the same relation as it exists in the real world.

1. RL references, as mentioned, have no value for me. If that were the case, I would have set a fixed time for adv_aceCPR_maxTime of just a couple of minutes, AED or no, and made sure that CPR will fail if you don't start it right after the start of the revive timer. But realism is in no way a goal of mine. AED and CPR serve the same game play purpose, putting players back on their feet. That's why there's just one value for adv_aceCPR_maxTime. The only differences between the two things are the fluff (like the AED object and the sounds) and the probability for success (so medics don't have to put in hours).

2. If you set the value below 15, your players will lose time with every CPR. That's why I specifically set 15 as the minimum value. If you want to do that, just set adv_aceCPR_addTime after postInit to any value you want. I won't change the easily accessible values.

[Belbo 461]

Updated to version 1.5.3: https://github.com/Pergor/ADV_Medical/releases/download/1.5.3/adv_aceCPR.zip

• IMPROVED: isResurrectable should always return true if only ace_medical_inCardiacArrest is true.
• IMPROVED: removed superfluous check for ace_medical_enableRevive.
• IMPROVED: variables will be set to nil instead of false. Might mitigate issues. Don't know...
• IMPROVED: added check for inReviveState OR inCardiacArrest.

[Guest]

Many thanks for the headsup about the update mate!

The Armaholic mirror has been updated with the new version:

ADV - ACE CPR v1.5.3