The Blackfish is not powerful enough

[Grumpy Old Man 3540]

37 minutes ago, Wiki said:

Thx for the tip, very useful.

 

However, my point was just that, the blast of a 105mm shell, HEAT or not, should be sufficient enough to kill 1 man within 2 or 3 radius.

 

If it's a hollywood movie, maybe.

Same myth for the .50cal that "can kill a person without hitting it".

A HEAT round causes the tiniest amount of drag possible to maximize kinetic energy hitting the target,

it doesn't move enough air around it to make it lethal to anyone within 2-3m.

If a HEAT round would impact near you into a concrete wall, the concrete fragments would probably harm you more than the actual HEAT round.

You would end up deaf most likely, but other than that? Doubt it.

 

Cheers

[Harzach 2505]

There is no "blast" as you are thinking of it. Not sure how I can make this any more clear.

[Wiki 1558]

33 minutes ago, Harzach said:

There is no "blast" as you are thinking of it. Not sure how I can make this any more clear.

Yeah, I get that.

 

I was just saying that is what I believed before you explained it to me ;)

 

Now, it's all clear, don't worry.

Thx for the explanation ^^

[lugiahua 26]

You might be confused with HEDP or MP rounds.

Some HEAT has fragment rings built into it such as M830A1 or FGM-148F (later Javelin) to give a limited anti-personal ability.

[reconteam 19]

It is listed as HEAT-MP so it should have a respectable lethal radius. Right now it seems pretty worthless against infantry.

 

Why would a gunship be flying around with a 105mm howitzer that has nothing but HEAT ammo anyway? It doesn't make sense.

[Ex3B 265]

On 4/17/2018 at 9:41 PM, lugiahua said:

You might be confused with HEDP or MP rounds.

Some HEAT has fragment rings built into it such as M830A1 or FGM-148F (later Javelin) to give a limited anti-personal ability.

Isn't the MP in the HEAT-MP supposed to mean multipurpose?

 

Anywya, this seems to be an unintended side effect of the tanks DLC and the modelling of HEAT penetrators. The blackfish clearly needs (by default) a HE fragmentation round for its 105mm gun. The blackfish isn't really an anti-armor platform, but as I see it, it is mainly for use against soft targets (MRAPs, technicals, infantry)... I'd much rather see dedicated HE-frag rounds than HEAT rounds, but true MP heat rounds would be fine.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-explosive_anti-tank_warhead#High-explosive_dual-purpose

Quote

These are sometimes referred to as high-explosive dual-purpose (HEDP) warheads. In some cases, this is merely a side effect of the armor-piercing design. In other cases, this dual role ability is a specific part of the design.

Even without being designed for the purpose, it seems that many HEAT designs will still have a significant lethal radius. Again, the MP means multipurpose, no? They need a larger blast radius.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-explosive_anti-tank_warhead#Variants

Quote

 a class of HEAT rounds termed high-explosive anti-tank multi-purpose, or HEAT-MP, has become more popular. These are HEAT rounds that are effective against older tanks and light armored vehicles but have improved fragmentation, blast and fuzing. This gives the projectiles an overall reasonable light armor and anti-personnel/material effect so that they can be used in place of conventional high-explosive rounds against infantry and other battlefield targets. This reduces the total number of rounds that need to be carried for different roles

The performance of HEAT-MP seen in that video is pathetic/

[dragon01 902]

Do remember that Blackfish now has a perfectly serviceable 20mm cannon. It was a joke before, but 20mm rounds were buffed and now can actually kill infantry with decent efficiency. That doesn't change the fact that HEAT-MP should have a better blast radius (it currently seems like pure HEAT), but it does mitigate the issue with the gunship overall.

 

Really wish AI could use it properly, but with player as the gunner it's good enough that I've started thinking about setting up a mission using it (currently figuring out how to script a seat change). 

[cas 41]

WOW

 

Gave the Blackfish another try after the tank addon:

 

Waypoint: careless, speed slow, loiter left, radius 1000m, altitude 800m

Put a spotter on the ground and group all the other positions in the Blackfish to the ground spotter. Make them all playable.

 

Works perfect: after ranging targets with T all shots are spot on! 20 and 40mm are very effective against soft targets.

You can also switch to the spotter on the ground and the AI in the Blackfish will engage, including soldiers.

 

Nice fireworks!

 

 

[Wiki 1558]

7 minutes ago, cas said:

WOW

 

Gave the Blackfish another try after the tank addon:

 

Waypoint: careless, loiter left, radius 1000m, altitude 800m

Put a spotter on the ground and group all the other positions in the Blackfish to the ground spotter. Make them all playable.

 

Works perfect: after ranging targets with T all shots are spot on! 20 and 40mm are very effective against soft targets.

You can also switch to the spotter on the ground and the AI in the Blackfish will engage, including soldiers.

 

Nice fireworks!

 

 

Interesting to know.

I'll give it a try.

 

EDIT: so the spotter was the group leader of the Blackfish?

[cas 41]

4 hours ago, Wiki said:

Interesting to know.

I'll give it a try.

 

EDIT: so the spotter was the group leader of the Blackfish?

No, only the teamleader of the other crew members, not the pilot!

[Wiki 1558]

Hey BI, can you please improve the HEAT-MP ammo?

 

For the moment, it's really not useful against infantry.

[stanhope 409]

2 hours ago, Wiki said:

Hey BI, can you please improve the HEAT-MP ammo?

 

For the moment, it's really not useful against infantry.

That's probably because that round isn't designed to take out infantry. (At least not in real life anyways, see this)

[Wiki 1558]

5 minutes ago, stanhope said:

That's probably because that round isn't designed to take out infantry. (At least not in real life anyways, see this)

 

Here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-explosive_anti-tank_warhead

 

Quote

With the effectiveness of gun-fired single charge HEAT rounds being lessened, or even negated by increasingly sophisticated armoring techniques, a class of HEAT rounds termed high-explosive anti-tank multi-purpose, or HEAT-MP, has become more popular. These are HEAT rounds that are effective against older tanks and light armored vehicles but have improved fragmentation, blast and fuzing. This gives the projectiles an overall reasonable light armor and anti-personnel/material effect so that they can be used in place of conventional high-explosive rounds against infantry and other battlefield targets. This reduces the total number of rounds that need to be carried for different roles

 

[Grumpy Old Man 3540]

After looking into the config for the indirectHitRange of the 105mm HEAT-MP ammo, found in:
 

configfile >> "CfgAmmo" >> "Sh_105mm_HEAT_MP"

the indirectHitRange is set to 1.5m, which seems like a joke for a 105mm MP projectile.

1.5m means, within 1.5m it will deal the full damage, after that the damage falls off and reaches 0 at 4x the initial distance.

Anything further away than 6m will receive no indirect damage from the 105mm HEAT-MP round.

 

Formula and further reading on indirectHitRange.

 

Cheers

[Wiki 1558]

3 hours ago, Grumpy Old Man said:

After looking into the config for the indirectHitRange of the 105mm HEAT-MP ammo, found in:
 

configfile >> "CfgAmmo" >> "Sh_105mm_HEAT_MP"

the indirectHitRange is set to 1.5m, which seems like a joke for a 105mm MP projectile.

1.5m means, within 1.5m it will deal the full damage, after that the damage falls off and reaches 0 at 4x the initial distance.

Anything further away than 6m will receive no indirect damage from the 105mm HEAT-MP round.

 

Formula and further reading on indirectHitRange.

 

Cheers

Thx.

So, it's not just me then ^^

[R0adki11 3945]

17 minutes ago, Wiki said:

Thx.

So, it's not just me then ^^

 

Have you logged it on the feedback tracker?

[Grumpy Old Man 3540]

24 minutes ago, R0adki11 said:

 

Have you logged it on the feedback tracker?

No idea if this is something for the feedback tracker, since it seems to be in line with every other MP round.

 

All MP ammo I could find at first glance:

_ammo = "toUpper configName _x find 'MP' >= 0" configClasses (configfile >> "CfgAmmo");
_result = _ammo apply {
	_indirectHitRange = getNumber (configfile >> "CfgAmmo" >> configName _x >> "indirectHitRange");
	_indirectHitDamage = getNumber (configfile >> "CfgAmmo" >> configName _x >> "indirectHit");
	_indirectHitMaxRange = _indirectHitRange * 4;
	[configName _x,format ["Damage: %1",_indirectHitDamage],format ["Range: %1",_indirectHitRange],format ["Max Range: %1",_indirectHitMaxRange]]
};
copyToClipboard str _result;

//_result
[
["B_30mm_MP","Damage: 4","Range: 2","Max Range: 8"],
["B_30mm_MP_Tracer_Red","Damage: 4","Range: 2","Max Range: 8"],
["B_30mm_MP_Tracer_Green","Damage: 4","Range: 2","Max Range: 8"],
["B_30mm_MP_Tracer_Yellow","Damage: 4","Range: 2","Max Range: 8"],
["Sh_120mm_HEAT_MP","Damage: 30","Range: 2.6","Max Range: 10.4"],
["Sh_120mm_HEAT_MP_T_Red","Damage: 30","Range: 2.6","Max Range: 10.4"],
["Sh_120mm_HEAT_MP_T_Green","Damage: 30","Range: 2.6","Max Range: 10.4"],
["Sh_120mm_HEAT_MP_T_Yellow","Damage: 30","Range: 2.6","Max Range: 10.4"],
["Sh_105mm_HEAT_MP","Damage: 24","Range: 1.5","Max Range: 6"],
["Sh_105mm_HEAT_MP_T_Red","Damage: 24","Range: 1.5","Max Range: 6"],
["Sh_105mm_HEAT_MP_T_Green","Damage: 24","Range: 1.5","Max Range: 6"],
["Sh_105mm_HEAT_MP_T_Yellow","Damage: 24","Range: 1.5","Max Range: 6"]
]

Maybe they're all in need of a tweak, who knows.

 

Cheers

[stburr91 994]

On 4/16/2018 at 12:05 PM, Grumpy Old Man said:

As stated by @Harzach, the default loaded ammo in the blackfish 105mm cannon is a HEAT round, without HE or MP.

These are all available magazines for that 105mm cannon:

["40Rnd_105mm_APFSDS","40Rnd_105mm_APFSDS_T_Red","40Rnd_105mm_APFSDS_T_Green","40Rnd_105mm_APFSDS_T_Yellow","100Rnd_105mm_HEAT_MP","20Rnd_105mm_HEAT_MP","20Rnd_105mm_HEAT_MP_T_Red","20Rnd_105mm_HEAT_MP_T_Green","20Rnd_105mm_HEAT_MP_T_Yellow"]

This will add 10 of every compatible magazine to the blackfish:

{vehicle player addMagazines [_x,10]} forEach ["40Rnd_105mm_APFSDS","40Rnd_105mm_APFSDS_T_Red","40Rnd_105mm_APFSDS_T_Green","40Rnd_105mm_APFSDS_T_Yellow","100Rnd_105mm_HEAT_MP","20Rnd_105mm_HEAT_MP","20Rnd_105mm_HEAT_MP_T_Red","20Rnd_105mm_HEAT_MP_T_Green","20Rnd_105mm_HEAT_MP_T_Yellow"]

 

Go wild.

 

Cheers

 

 

Where do I put this code to add the other rounds?

[Grumpy Old Man 3540]

12 hours ago, stburr91 said:

Where do I put this code to add the other rounds?

 

Best bet would be into the init field of the blackfish with you as crew of it.

For a more general use you can put this into the init field:

{this addMagazines [_x,10]} forEach ["40Rnd_105mm_APFSDS","40Rnd_105mm_APFSDS_T_Red","40Rnd_105mm_APFSDS_T_Green","40Rnd_105mm_APFSDS_T_Yellow","100Rnd_105mm_HEAT_MP","20Rnd_105mm_HEAT_MP","20Rnd_105mm_HEAT_MP_T_Red","20Rnd_105mm_HEAT_MP_T_Green","20Rnd_105mm_HEAT_MP_T_Yellow"]

 

Cheers