Dynamic Vehicle Loadouts feedback

[jone_kone 158]

 

Would it be possible to add checkbox optics option to the Vehicles Dynamic Loadout too (NV, TI, Normal, etc.)? It´s pretty easy to modify already now with scripts, but having it ready in the editor would be even easier. :)

[darkChozo 133]

 

11 hours ago, oukej said:

So far the idea was that we'll leave the responsibility for the mission maker not to add insane loadouts ;)
There are no restrictions when using scripts and some restrictions when setting up a vehicle in Eden editor.

 

Do we have an idea of what scripting support for this new system will look like? I played around with addMagazineTurret/addWeaponTurret and it didn't appear to use the new pylons even when using the Pylon_etc magazines. Being able to specifically assign things to particular pylons (by index, maybe?) would certainly be nice.

 

When you say no restrictions, do you mean that every pylon magazine/weapon will be compatible with every pylon? No pylon type restrictions? If so, that's great.

[Imperator[TFD] 444]

7 hours ago, darkChozo said:

 

 

Do we have an idea of what scripting support for this new system will look like? I played around with addMagazineTurret/addWeaponTurret and it didn't appear to use the new pylons even when using the Pylon_etc magazines. Being able to specifically assign things to particular pylons (by index, maybe?) would certainly be nice.

 

When you say no restrictions, do you mean that every pylon magazine/weapon will be compatible with every pylon? No pylon type restrictions? If so, that's great.

 

Agreed it's fantastic.

The rivet-counters who will no doubt pipe up about how those outer wing pylons shouldn't be able to carry X can just make sure they don't put X on said pylons when making a mission.

[dragon01 902]

I agree that in Eden there should be no restrictions, as it's all under mission maker's control. However, this will be something to think about when allowing the players to fiddle with their loadouts.

[chortles 263]

16 hours ago, darkChozo said:

Do we have an idea of what scripting support for this new system will look like? I played around with addMagazineTurret/addWeaponTurret and it didn't appear to use the new pylons even when using the Pylon_etc magazines. Being able to specifically assign things to particular pylons (by index, maybe?) would certainly be nice.

 

When you say no restrictions, do you mean that every pylon magazine/weapon will be compatible with every pylon? No pylon type restrictions? If so, that's great.

From the BIKI where you can find further details and commands:

vehicle setPylonLoadOut [pylonID, magazine name, forced = false, turret path = []]

• adds missile to vehicle pylon; TransportPylonsComponent in config is required
• pylonID can be number/index corresponding to order in config or string name of pylon in config

16 hours ago, darkChozo said:

When you say no restrictions, do you mean that every pylon magazine/weapon will be compatible with every pylon? No pylon type restrictions? If so, that's great.

Also per the BIKI, compatibility is based on both of the following being true:

• Magazine mass value < the pylon's maxWeight value
• Magazine config class' hardpoint array* and the pylon's hardpoints array have at least one entry in common

It would appear that all of the Wipeout (Dynamic loadout) pylons and all compatible magazines have B_BOMB_PYLON in their respective arrays while the pylons' maxWeight values are high enough/the magazines' mass values are low enough, whereas the Blackfoot (Dynamic loadout) config is restricted via maxWeight and/or arrays (single ASRAAMs or Skalpels possible on all six stations but DAGRs exclusive to the innermost).

* @oukej Maybe make this hardpoint or hardpoints for both magazine and pylon instead of one-for-mag and one-for-pylon? After all, the view distance limit typo in sensor configs was corrected...

[darkChozo 133]

Oh, cool, hadn't realized that there's documentation already. The scripting framework seems very robust, happy about that. Only complaint I had is that it looks like the turret parameter isn't working, I set it to [0] but the weapons/magazines were still assigned to the pilot.

 

I think it mostly makes sense to restrict what a mission maker can do regarding loadouts in the 3d editor. Gives newer mission makers a guideline for what loadouts make sense, while letting more experienced mission makers do wacky things via script. Though it could also make sense to have a "Use Pylon Restrictions" checkbox or something.

 

Also, I'm sure BI's aware of this already, but the current loadout UI doesn't really play nicely with the limitations of the 3den property boxes. Specifically, 3den really doesn't like it when you have things scrolling out the bottom of the window, so in order to set some settings you have to do it via keyboard.

[x3kj 1247]

Could we get sample models of some pylons and bombs (simplified)? And updated plane sample and configs for the whole dynamic loadout (as soon as its release ready) ? 

A3 doesnt have ordonance model samples, and when using A2 ones it can cause this issue, with no fix found yet.

"51.998: c:\w\dev\futura\lib\shapedraw.cpp(375)(func: ShapeBank::New)  [AssertRLS]  MainThread=19924 Flags of shape "\weapons\proxies\agm114hellfire.p3d" do not correspond to requested flags. This could cause serious errors. Please rebinarize the model."

 

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

When can we expect to see the Dynamic Loudout on more vehicles? Curious, because i notice there's the stock Wipeout, and then the new standard, which gives the impression a new model has to be updated in order to use it?

[chortles 263]

4 hours ago, darksidesixofficial said:

When can we expect to see the Dynamic Loudout on more vehicles? Curious, because i notice there's the stock Wipeout, and then the new standard, which gives the impression a new model has to be updated in order to use it?

At last check both Editor-visible ( scope = 2; ) Wipeout classes were calling the same model* A3\Air_F_EPC\Plane_CAS_01\Plane_cas_01_F.p3d so if updating the model was necessary then the 'stock' Wipeout is also ready in theory and the difference should purely be config-based... a recurring theme with the Jets DLC-promoting engine changes.

 

* Curiously enough the base class Plane_cas_01_base_F calls the non-existent model A3\Air_F_Gamma\Plane_CAS_01\Plane_cas_01_F.p3d -- non-existent in the sense that there is no plane_cas_01 folder in the air_f_gamma.pbo, only plane_fighter_03 (Buzzard), which could mean that at one point the Wipeout was expected to be ready in time for Arma 3's launch.

[dragon01 902]

Well, I'm not surprised that they want to test the new systems on a handful of aircraft before they commit to reconfiguring all of them. It's better to iron out issues on one plane and then implement the "final" variant on the rest, than implementing the first version on everything and then have to fix every issue in triplicate.

[celludriel 79]

Since this would be possible, Could you also make it possible to dynamically alter any property of the CfgXXXXX ?  For example maximumload to alter the inventory size of vehicles on the fly by scripting ?

 

This would be a well welcomed feature !

[Strike_NOR 898]

Dynamic loadouts are such a great idea.

 

No more A-10 (GBU), A-10 (CAS), A-10 (Multi-Role), A-10 (LAU) etc... just One plane, multiple loadouts. 

 

Absolutely whole-heartedly support this idea for jets, helicopters and even tanks.

 

Fully supported in 3DEN for easy mission config.

 

Fully supported in-game by use of ammotruck and editor placeable module (sync to ammo truck/crate etc)

 

Fully supported in Virtual Arsenal.

 

That would be awesome.

 

 

A whole other level of awesome would be if you could build the dynamic loadout system as a hierarchy that respects following rules and order:

 

- Vehicle max capacity (weight or ammo count - a HUGE plus would be adjustable fuel, but I see that may be difficult. Would be nice to sacrifice fuel for extra payload)

 

- Hardpoints (how many weapon slots does the vehicle have, and which type is allowed per slot)

 

- Launcher/Pylon/Pod style weapon adapters. Depending on vehicle, certain weapon mounts only support certain mount types. Launchers for missiles, Pylons for bombs or dropped missiles, and finally pod adapters for TGP or gunpods/jammer etc)

 

- Weapon (The final level in the hierarchy, where the actual weapon capabilities are determined by addon makers)

 

 

This essentially means that an addon maker now sets the maximum capacity of the vehicle (be it weight for an aircraft or shell/magazine capacity for a tank) and then how many hardpoints it has and what type can be used. For an F-16 with 9 (+2) hardpoints it would look something like this:

 

L = launcher

P = pylon

F = fuel

PD = pod

G = gun

 

 

Hardpoint#    1          2          3          4          5a          5          5b          6          7          8          9                       M-61 Vulcan 20mm

                      L         L         L/P     L/P/F       PD       PD/F*     PD        L/P/F    L/P        L          L                                   G           

 

 

Finally the addon maker sets up available options like so:

 

L: AIM-9, AIM-120, AIM-7, AIM-2000

P: GBU-12, GBU-12 triple ejector rack, AGM-65, LAU-60, Mk-82, Mk-84 etc..

F: 370Gal Tank, *300 Gal tank

PD: ALQ-131 Jammer, Lantirn TGP, Pantera TGP, FLIR pod

G: 512x 20mm HE, HE-T, MP-T, AP, etc...

 

 

 

That would be sweet. Would allow addon makers to utilize already made weapons and pylons for other aircraft too, also add mod support.

 

If this is what you are going for then please accept my virtual high five!

 

Edited February 27, 2017 by Strike_NOR
Blurting out stuff before thoroughly investigating after I get back to latest dev branch update.

[chortles 263]

@Strike_NOR Could have saved yourself a lot of time and checked out what was actually done on dev branch or at least read the dev branch trip reports from those of us who did in this very thread... not cool at all.

 

EDIT: I can however compile such a 'trip report' for you later if you'd like to request one.

[Strike_NOR 898]

15 minutes ago, chortles said:

@Strike_NOR Could have saved yourself a lot of time and checked out what was actually done on dev branch or at least read the dev branch trip reports from those of us who did in this very thread... not cool at all.

 

EDIT: I can however compile such a 'trip report' for you later if you'd like to request one.

 

Hey. I'm keeping tabs on the forums while away from my ARMA 3 PC for a few weeks. I sometimes forget how fluid dev-branch can be (this isn't the first time I've blurted out things). Apologies.

 

Thanks for the lesson.

[dragon01 902]

I have some more testing feedback, mostly from my recent flights on the Buzzard.

1. Unguided bombs are dropped in pairs. I don't know if it's intentional, but I think that in context of ArmA, it isn't a good idea.

2. 20mm gunpods only fire in pairs. They should fire all at once. 

3. 20mm gunpods are missing fire sounds and muzzle FX.

4. Centerline mount on the Buzzard can only mount the 20mm gunpod. It should be possible to put other weapons there.

[Flax 397]

1 hour ago, dragon01 said:

2. 20mm gunpods only fire in pairs. They should fire all at once. 

1

 

This! I was just testing with the picture below - looks great but functions unexpectedly. 

[dragon01 902]

It was actually one of the first things I did when Dynamic Loadout was implemented. Didn't work then, either. I want my dakka! :) 

[eggbeast 3673]

i imagine rocket pods and gunpods will be very hard to implement in dynamic loadouts.

i managed it in arma 2 rangemaster mod, but you have to pre-specify the memory points, and have the muzzle-flashes on the model already, and then also you cant move them to other pylons, but that you can live with. oh and selectionfireanim has a lot to answer for lol. means you need to hard-code your classes with gunpods fixed, though rockets can be moved so long as you have config access to adjust the rocket mem point.classes (assuming your bird has a selection of points on it)

i remember myke showing me this amazing concept model back in the day of integrated rocket and gunpod pylon proxies, but sadly that experiment never came to fruition.

 

anyway, i'm stoked for this dlc. i'll be redoing all the unsung aircraft and then looking again at the FRL and rangemaster missilebox we built in arma 2.

i'm busy until after may on unsung, but then will get going. if any config gurus out there want to lend a hand in the meantime i have this lot on our SVN already half-ported.

If anyone out there has any newer models and/or would like to work with me on it please drop me a PM.

it's gonna mostly be a week of configging and a month or two of testing/ debugging.

[da12thMonkey 1943]

33 minutes ago, eggbeast said:

i imagine rocket pods and gunpods will be very hard to implement in dynamic loadouts.

i managed it in arma 2 rangemaster mod, but you have to pre-specify the memory points, and have the muzzle-flashes on the model already, and then also you cant move them to other pylons

 

The muffleflash (zasleh) proxy muzzlePos/muzzleEnd memory points are in the pod model, so the dynamic loadouts system allows them to move to wherever the pylon is located.

	class PylonWeapon_300Rnd_20mm_shells : 300Rnd_20mm_shells {
		displayName = "$STR_A3_twin_cannon_20mm";
		model = "\A3\Weapons_F\DynamicLoadout\PylonPod_Twin_Cannon_20mm.p3d";
		muzzlePos = "muzzlePos";	// position and direction of muzzle
		muzzleEnd = "muzzleEnd";
		hardpoints[] = {B_BOMB_PYLON, B_A143_BUZZARD_CENTER_PYLON};
		pylonWeapon = "Twin_Cannon_20mm";
		mass = 230;
	};

Memory point selection names present in the ODOL file

 

Muzzle flash anim appears to be controlled by the reload animation source as mentioned here https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/Arma_3_Vehicle_Loadouts#Animation_sources

 

Seems easy peasy and lacking most of the limitations we had on gun and rocket positions in A2

[eggbeast 3673]

i dont see an entry in that mag that connects to selectionfireanim?

 

[da12thMonkey 1943]

As I said; it doesn't appear to use selectionFireanim to show/hide the muzzle flash, it uses the reload source

[eggbeast 3673]

ah sorry i didn't get that first time around. well that's groovy. i have a ton of pods from A2.

[john111 76]

Pods from A2 would look amazing and would really cut the workload for a ton of aircraft.Wouldn`t mind see a mod with these options for planes in Arma 3.

[eggbeast 3673]

we were making these back in the day.

the middle one, UPK 23 is done and ready but the GUV pods on the outside got lost.

will try to revive them in A3 as part of mod i linked above.

[chortles 263]

On 3/23/2017 at 0:48 PM, dragon01 said:

4. Centerline mount on the Buzzard can only mount the 20mm gunpod. It should be possible to put other weapons there.

This last one is possibly by design since the Buzzard's centerline station only has "B_A143_BUZZARD_CENTER_PYLON" in its hardpoints array, and the only magazine with that in its own hardpoints array is the aforementioned PylonWeapon_300Rnd_20mm_shells whose config class da12thMonkey posted earlier on this page; said magazine having "B_BOMB_PYLON" in its array as well is why it can currently fit on the Buzzard's inboard/midboard stations (its mass value of 230 however exceeds the outboard stations' maxweight value of 200) as well as on every one of the Wipeout's stations.