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this is epic. hope to see the 'more hitpoints' and 'not exploding by default on crashing' in helis as well.

 

 

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3 hours ago, twisted said:

'not exploding by default on crashing'

 

 

 

this would be my number one wish concerning the damage model - especially for helicopters!

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Well I tested it out on the Wipeout and I think it needs some work. Took a few 12.7  to the end of the tail section and the plane went completely crazy and started banking to the right like half of the wing was gone, started leeking fuel like a broken bottle and lost most of the power to the engines. I think that a plane like this should be able to take more damage or at least make the damage region specific, so that only hits to the wings affect the banking control 

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Is there a wip documentation how to use this? I would like to play around with this features / start updating since i have >50 aircraft to update : )

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On 18.12.2016 at 0:16 AM, nodunit said:

Possible yes, probable no.  That technique at current involves a lot of limitaitons in terms of what you can do with the texture but even more in terms of making it work ingame.  Scripting is a must and a lot of it at that, and sometimes the physic can get a bit janky in multiplayer.

 

While it's all the truth, still achieving similar destruction effects (not the same tho) is possible within just RV's engine capability, with no scripting involved. You may look here to see how it looks in Arma3 (IFA3Lite), yet without new HitPoints that were implemented into the engine recently. Additional info in the description of the linked movie.

 

 

EDIT: the required knowledge behind those effects shown on the movie is covered entirely here: http://ram.wikia.com/wiki/Modding_Tutorials/Damage_Hide   
and here: https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/Arma_3_Damage_Description

 

EDIT2: And another linked movie is the proof that lost of either gear of a plane was always possible since an introduction of HitPoints. In this case, it has actual impact on the aircraft's behavior on landing unlike a lost of elevators or any other parts of an aircraft that usually causes shift of CoG. By the way, BI how hard would be to add CoG shifting to a HitPoint of specific part, like part of a wing, assuming that that part of the wing has its own Geo/PhysX representation with its own mass allocated? Has it been already implemented?
Video at which the plane had been damaged and lost its left gear due AAA fire and I attempted to land (please, note that the addon is heavy WIP):
 

 

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changing center of gravity to "simulate" lack of lift from a missing wing will make the aircraft behave wrong when on the ground.

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Yes, if it's all there's to it. However, COM should definitely shift when the plane missing a wing - after all, that wing probably contributed to the overall mass a fair bit. Centers of lift and pressure should change as well for a proper simulation.

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An option for mouse-to-joystick without auto-centering would be great for Jet DLC, so we can hold the stick to counteract damaged flight surfaces without having to keep the mouse moving at a constant velocity.

 

Currently doable with 3rd party software tools, but native implementation would be awesome.

 

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23 hours ago, ampersand38 said:

An option for mouse-to-joystick without auto-centering would be great for Jet DLC, so we can hold the stick to counteract damaged flight surfaces without having to keep the mouse moving at a constant velocity.

 

Currently doable with 3rd party software tools, but native implementation would be awesome.

 

 

 

+1 one hell yeah, even if I fly with a Stick and throttle this is awesome!

 

@oukej Regarding hit points, does this also mean VTOLs will have full damage module support? 

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On 24.12.2016 at 8:57 PM, x3kj said:

changing center of gravity to "simulate" lack of lift from a missing wing will make the aircraft behave wrong when on the ground.

 

Well, the aircraft with no wing on either side would never reach the earth safely again, so no issue here I guess ;) It might be a problem for those planes that got its wing damaged while taxiing or just parking on the ground tho. In the meantime, I was working on the damage system (please, note the damage taken was exaggerated for the presentation purpose): 
 

 

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17 hours ago, NightIntruder said:

 

Well, the aircraft with no wing on either side would never reach the earth safely again, so no issue here I guess ;) It might be a problem for those planes that got its wing damaged while taxiing or just parking on the ground tho. In the meantime, I was working on the damage system (please, note the damage taken was exaggerated for the presentation purpose): 
 

 

 

If this aint in Arma 4 when it eventually comes out I'll be really disappointed!

 

Though great work! Impressive as fuck this is

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Thanks for the kind words. Actually, I just ported an IL-2 addon already made by others (HS123 by TeamDaidalos and PZL P.7 by Luka) and used the RV engine which allows such system to happen without scripting. Below you can see another effect of the system: lost of landing gear due to accidental hit of the ground and then belly landing at an airstrip with getting no severe damage.
 

 

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Thanks for the inspiration Nightintruder.

I never bothered working with damage effects other than materials - but hiding parts of the gear is super easy and quite effective: )

 

?interpolation=lanczos-none&output-forma

 

?interpolation=lanczos-none&output-forma

 

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On 27.12.2016 at 8:30 PM, NightIntruder said:

Well, the aircraft with no wing on either side would never reach the earth safely again, so no issue here I guess ;) 

Not really. From Wikipedia:

Quote

1 May 1983: during an Israeli Air Force training dogfight, 106 Squadron F-15D 957 Markia Schakim (Sky Blazer) collided with an A-4 Skyhawk. Unknown to pilot Zivi Nedivi and his copilot, the right wing of the Eagle was sheared off roughly two feet (60 cm) from the fuselage. The F-15 entered a controllable spin after the collision. Zivi decided to attempt recovery and engaged afterburner to increase speed, allowing him to regain control of the aircraft. The pilot was able to prevent stalling and maintain control because of the lift generated by the large horizontal surface area of the fuselage, the stabilators and remaining wing areas. The F-15 landed at twice the normal speed to maintain the necessary lift, and its tailhook was torn off completely during the landing during a failed attempt at using the emergency arresting gear installed on the runway to bring the aircraft to a halt. Zivi managed to bring his F-15 to a complete stop approximately 20 ft (6 m) from the end of the runway. He was later quoted as saying "(I) probably would have ejected if I knew what had happened."[85][86] The A-4 was destroyed in the collision.

F-15 can land just fine without a wing. :) Some carrier-based aircraft can fly with their wingtips folded, so they'd probably be able to land with one shot off, as well.

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52 minutes ago, dragon01 said:

F-15 can land just fine without a wing. :) Some carrier-based aircraft can fly with their wingtips folded, so they'd probably be able to land with one shot off, as well.

 

There were 123 Eagles lost in various mishaps and accidents throughout its service life, very few in combat. There's only one case where it survived lost of one wing so it seems to be within margin of an statistical error ;) 

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It was the only case when F-15 lost a wing like this, period. Only one F-15s was actually lost to (friendly) weapons fire, all other losses were accidents which generally involved the aircraft crashing into something. Being able to fly without a wing doesn't do you much good if you fly into the ground at half the speed of sound.

 

Here's a link to the article about the collision:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983_Negev_mid-air_collision

It's the only time this happened to F-15, but I remember an A-10 successfully going back to base without a large part of one of its wings, among other damage (the plane looked as if it has been through a shredder). So yes, you can land with a wing shot off. Another F-15 survived a hit from a Sidewinder missile (also friendly fire) and landed safely, though there's no mention of whether anything broke off in that case.

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To be precise - 34 Eagles have been lost due to midair collisions and 2 were lost during Desert Storm from enemy fire: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_F-15_losses
I do not have reliable data to say that it was the only case when F-15 lost a wing. Every accident is different. What I wanted to say is that such scenario is extremely rare in real life. In the game, it would happen very often. We can debate here for a long time, but in fact there is no flight model supporting complex plane aerodynamics in the game. I am not gonna give an AI a chance to fly a damaged plane for a long time with its one wing torn off. It looks silly, believe me, I have already tested it.

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Generally, AI should automatically eject when it loses a single component (this is, in fact, the current behavior for tanks). However, a human player should be able to maintain control (assuming nothing else is busted) and even land, if so inclined. It's usually a good idea to eject anyway, but realistic handling (both on the ground and in the air) under such heavy damage is not to be disregarded. Given how antiaircraft weapons work, I don't think this would happen often in ArmA. Usually, a good hit from a missile would result in losing the engines, both wings or the pilot getting killed. AA guns could cause localized damage, but a gun isn't going to stop firing after only a couple of hits unless the target was running from it anyway. The situations in which wings or rudders could be torn off, but the plane still salvaged would be CAS missions gone wrong, getting caught in flak and maybe heated gun dogfights, where upon seeing the opponent's wing fly off you instantly switch targets. Given that I don't think ability to fly despite missing parts of the wing would be determinal to gameplay.

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At the moment, plane has "ejection" threshold, usually something around 85 % of "global" health of an aircraft. It would be cool if they make it so AI eject after losing both engines or all control surfaces. And speaking about probability of severe wing damage, one should take into consideration other war eras existed in our beloved sandbox game, like WW2 (movies above). By the way, I did several tests with dogfights and AAA in the game (WW2). The results were like wings were getting 70-90% of overall hits, which doesn't surprise me as they are biggest planes of an aircraft, easier to hit with non-precision weapon than a fuselage. Perhaps, the layout of hits may change in case of modern planes using missiles but I wouldn't turn a blind eye to the fact that wings and engines are most vulnerable to enemy fire, and the wings are structurally the weakest part of an aircraft. If they can model such complex damage system, I am all to it but honestly speaking I would love to see better plane FM above all.

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BIS definitely shouldn't concern themselves with WWII-era fighter planes, this is mod stuff. Today's air combat is something completely different. Back then, wings tended to get peppered (hence why I mentioned gun dogfights as a possible source of wing damage), but now we use guided weapons that generally aim for the hull or the engines. Gun combat is very rare nowadays and even gun-based AA is not commonly used against fighters (mostly against CAS planes and helos). Planes are generally countered using missiles.

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1 hour ago, dragon01 said:

BIS definitely shouldn't concern themselves with WWII-era fighter planes, this is mod stuff. Today's air combat is something completely different. Back then, wings tended to get peppered (hence why I mentioned gun dogfights as a possible source of wing damage), but now we use guided weapons that generally aim for the hull or the engines. Gun combat is very rare nowadays and even gun-based AA is not commonly used against fighters (mostly against CAS planes and helos). Planes are generally countered using missiles.

 You can't compare jet planes with CAS(VTOL and low speed plane config.). CAS are more prone to bullets, hit points should be different in each case but devs maybe put all in the same bag (missile explosions and bullets damage)

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7 hours ago, dragon01 said:

now we use guided weapons that generally aim for the hull or the engines. Gun combat is very rare nowadays and even gun-based AA is not commonly used against fighters (mostly against CAS planes and helos). Planes are generally countered using missiles.

 

The DLC is supposed to bring a new standard of damage system among planes in the whole game, which is sandbox that contains other DLCs, vast range of external addons and so on. What I would love to see (apart from what already was implemented) within the new damage system is:

  • lost of one or both elevators 
  • lost of rudder
  • lost of either wing with related unstability of the plane (tailspin?) OR lost of convex component of the wing with its mass (and its CoG) should be taken into account at least (currently, you can lost a wing and its convex component as well, but it doesn't change overall mass and its distribution in the plane)
  • either control surface jammed in random position due to damage taken/failure
  • structural damage (break) of the fuselage that doesn't result in instant pilot death BUT instead causes fire and as a result - pilot death after brief time
  • possible break (or shooting off) of either landing gear and belly landing
  • an engine overheating resulting in engine fire
  • bigger range of default destructionEffects that simulate fuel / oil leakage, thin smoke of small fire etc.
  • additional class in HitPoint classes that allows for automatic respawn proxied copy of the part that was just destroyed (ie. a tail shoot off of the aircraft)

It's a fair set of HitPoints and damage features that can cover whole aviation history without sacrificing realism of contemporary air war, I hope ;) 

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Couldn't agree more with NightIntruder. Along side hoping for a better flight model in the DLC, the points he brought up are desperately needed. The aircraft should be affected regarding CoG and it's all-around maneuverability in flight along side the visual aspect. I'd love to see fire effects from the engines, something better than the one I made for Sabre's and my aircraft. And, I suppose stoking the fire, not always are the aircraft brought down by missiles, but small arms and cannons from aircraft alike. I second the motion to give some love to wing destruction, as said before they are the biggest surface on an aircraft and are the most commonly damaged. CAS aside, close dogfights employ the use of an aircraft's cannons and air-to-air combat aircraft are all outfitted with cannons, even in the modern age (As was proved to the U.S. government by the lack of cannons on the F-4 and since then have required air combat aircraft to have cannons). Besides the fact of air to air, surface to air missiles usually hit wings as that again is the biggest surface area of the aircraft. Just my two cents. Can't wait for the DLC :smile_o:

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