Generation Gap? Multi-play for Old Guys & Arma 3 or Arma 2

[Francois_L 5]

As title implies, wondering if I might be facing a generation gap, and have a few questions.

A little background first to let members here know where I'm coming from.  Am not boasting or anything.

Friend & I are in our 50's, and growing up, we played 'sandbox' games in the literal sense-- Napoleonic miniatures.  Then came 'cardboard' games like "Squad Leader."   Favorite PC games were sims like Falcon 3.0 & IL-2 IL-2 Sturmovik.  We got fragging out of our system while playing Doom II for Windows 3.11...

So on to the questions.

1.) Is multi-player safe, or a hacker's paradise?  (Am thinking of the old Diablo & B-net)    On steam, do most players take the sim seriously, or just there for laughs?  (Lobbing grenades at comrades, shooting them in the back, etc.) 

2.) Historical mods for Arma-3 or cut losses & go with Arma-2?

Can't seem to find cold war, or Vietnam era vehicles for Arma-3.  Everything seems to come up as Arma-2.

For scenarios, need vehicles such as: M151 'jeep', M-113, M-48, BMP-1, BTR-60, T-54/55... Arma-3 has mods for them, or SoL?

Same might apply to weapons.  Arma-3 seems to have 21st century or futuristic weapons.  Suppose that's a matter of taste, but in making my own scenarios, was hoping to find a mod that might offer M-16 (without bolt assist) M-60 LMG, & M-79 along with their Soviet made counterparts.  (One mod did have rail version of M-60, but no bi-pod, etc.  Not the one used in Vietnam)

 

3.) Game mechanics & AI.  Still learning to use the  editor, so hope it's just me.  Does the AI have much of a 'bound / over-watch' algorithm?  (While one actor or actors are moving, the others give suppressing fire or are ready to do so.)  Does it have a kind of 'morale' setting?  (Militia or recruits will break and run; elite or fanatical units will fight even when surrounded, etc.)

 

Notice waypoint attributes have a place for 'scripted.'  Is it possible to program ideas like this?  Surrounded, out of ammo, cover the guys dashing across street, etc.

 

Thanks for reading
 

[ineptaphid 6413]

Can't help you regarding multiplayer servers as I am strictly an SP player, but most private servers and groups take the game seriously-I recommend joining a group. I do know there are several comprised entirely of people over the age of 30 :) 

 

Regarding Vietnam era assets, this is what you need. http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=29948   Infantry,air,map...all Vietnam and all great :)

 

Regarding the ai, I would advise having a look at an ai enhancing mod such as ASR_AI  http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=24080  and also chatting to the people who use it on it's BI forum thread. 

[Rich_R 1087]

Francois, you and I are the same age and I understand your concerns.

Having played on mp servers, being a member of a large group and starting two of my own here's what I learned.

Stick with Arma 3, it's better for more realistic gameplay. Yes there are a ton of mods for Arma 2, but the number for 3 continues to grow and it's just a much better game.

As far as I know, It's rare to get hackers on the public servers. There are plenty of frustrating and annoying players but not really the hacker types.

For what you guys seem to be looking for, I agree with Ineptaphid, join a group or clan. However, do your homework! Watch their videos, read through their website and make sure it's a good fit. You want to make sure that they play the way you to play as well as use the mods you're looking for.

Good luck!

[jarrad96 1940]

Ok, MP varies depending on what kind of gamemode you play- generally there are more casual, drop-in, drop-out modes that have a possibility of hackers, but either I have absurdly good luck or there isn't many hackers around- I think in the ~550 hours or so I have played in public, open MP games I've had 2 hackers, but both were kicked by admins within about 20-30 mins. Private servers, hacking is something I have never had happen to me or to the groups I have played in, simply because it's harder to get in (mod requirements) so no-one goes to the effort to join a group and download whatever mods may be required to play, just to be a dick and hack people. I've played a total of 3,500 hours of A3 if you combine public and unit play, according to Steam. As far as age goes, I've met people from 10 to 65. 

 

Vietnam/ Cold War era assets- PLENY of them around, off the top of my head for Vietnam in particular you have Unsung (as above) , Air Cav Vietnam (Unsung's competitor right now) http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=550873311, and for general Cold War assets- the 90's mod- http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=30004 which covers the 1980's / 1990's US forces, Some parts of RHS (depends on what you want, as it covers gear from few decades) and for Soviet Block you have- http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=31346 for eariler soviet Army, or http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=30119 as an alternative. 

 

In regards to players, it's impossible to cover the 30-40,000 players in a big group, so in general you have 3 main 'playerbases' -

 

Player/Group Type 1- Survival, Life or more 'Casual' Gamemodes. 

You have the survival/ construction/ free-roam and more casual players (Generalising here, Wasteland, Exile, Breaking Point, and other survival modes, as well as the less-co-ordinated COOP modes like Invade and Annex and Patrol Ops, but these can often be half-way between this group and the next ) Life is a kind of civilian roleplay gamemode, but can also veer into more GTA style servers. 

 

Player/Group Type 2- 'Tactical', generally called 'Milsim', but I split Milsim into 2 parts, Tactical and the 3rd group below. 

You have what I like to call 'Tactical' groups- they can either be a more organised public server or a private one, and they can often use mods to add equipment, weapons or maps that suit their group's preference. They in general may have some form of military structure, with some roles (for example, X is a squad leader, Y is a machinegunner) and use real-life military tactics, generally formations, flanking, bounding and peels. They will in almost all cases use TFAR or ACRE radio, which adds real-life radio communication, with channels and radio types, to Arma. This is generally where you first start seeing ex-Military members or people who were formerly soldiers in real life, and they also appear in the next type. This group is generally referred to as 'Mil-Sim' , because they attempt to emulate the real-life military in some way. I personally am an admin in this group type. 

 

Player/Group Type 3- 'Hard Mil-Sim' , which varies from groups that are blurred 'Tactical Milsim' all the way up to the extreme of 'Military Roleplay'. 

The final group is what I refer to as 'Hard Mil-Sim' - They are focused on a even more accurate representation of the Military of their respective nation or unit, and do everything the 'tactical' groups do but moreso- They may have a rank system in place for promotion courses, they will use both section/ fireteam level and higher command such as Platoon or HQ elements, and may have support roles such EOD, MEDEVAC/Corpsman/Medical teams and Logistic squads, who have their defined role. Some groups in this may simulate a 'Deployment' or rotation of the larger units, where one platoon or so is 'Deployed' to operations while the other is doing training or somesuch. These units sometimes have dedicated mod-makers who build exclusive mods for their group. 

This is the only type that may have actual rank enforcement, including rank name calling, but despite what people say this is very, very rare, and is often on the more extreme units who go from Hard Mil-sim into almost military Role-Play, which is NOT common. 

 

AI will automatically bound from cover-to cover when in 'Combat' mode with the base game AI, but I would recommend an AI mod in the event you play against AI as a COOP group regularly. 

 

Arma 2 is pretty sparse in regards to groups- I know of only a single unit that still regularly plays A2 instead of A3. (Edited here, I haven't played A2 in a year or so, but Beagle says guys are still around, so I changed this text)

[milosv123344 37]

Can't seem to find cold war, or Vietnam era vehicles for Arma-3.  Everything seems to come up as Arma-2. 

For scenarios, need vehicles such as: M151 'jeep', M-113, M-48, BMP-1, BTR-60, T-54/55... Arma-3 has mods for them, or SoL?

Same might apply to weapons.  Arma-3 seems to have 21st century or futuristic weapons.  Suppose that's a matter of taste, but in making my own scenarios, was hoping to find a mod that might offer M-16 (without bolt assist) M-60 LMG, & M-79 along with their Soviet made counterparts.  (One mod did have rail version of M-60, but no bi-pod, etc.  Not the one used in Vietnam)

 

3.) Game mechanics & AI.  Still learning to use the  editor, so hope it's just me.  Does the AI have much of a 'bound / over-watch' algorithm?  (While one actor or actors are moving, the others give suppressing fire or are ready to do so.)  Does it have a kind of 'morale' setting?  (Militia or recruits will break and run; elite or fanatical units will fight even when surrounded, etc.)

 

Notice waypoint attributes have a place for 'scripted.'  Is it possible to program ideas like this?  Surrounded, out of ammo, cover the guys dashing across street, etc.

 

Thanks for reading

 

 For cold war and vietnam specifically best bet is to go with arma 2 CWR2 mod ,it has most of the things you need regarding cold war , and a lot more coop missions in different settings , even snow: http://cwr2.arma2.fr/downloads/

 There are also mods for arma 3 but with modern setting only as far as i know, i'll puta few here:

- Highest quality eastern side units and weapons, best sound, recoil, ballistics, realistic AI, muzzle flashes, dragging, medical system etc. Needs a VTN zoom fix mod because it disables right click zoom by default. Lacks many vehicles but has basic ones and they are top quality, work in progress mod : http://vtnmod.com/download/

- If you are looking for well rounded mod with most content , then check out CUP series , it has all content from previous arma games including all maps, its insane : http://cup-arma3.org/download

- RHS is what most tactical communities use, its quality being somewhere between CUP and VTN, has most vehicles and aircraft, units and weapons

Also, regarding whether people take the game seriously or not, depends where you play, you wont find much tactics in public servers as its usually populated with King of the hill/zombies/wasteland crap, try communities and apply at United Operations , Shacktac, and many others, which ever fits your play style.

Edit : I also forgot, arma 2 has a world war 2 mod called I44, adds new, well done maps, units and vehicles, i think i'll reinstall arma 2 just for that and CWR

 

[Beagle 684]

ArmA II is far from dead, especially in the CTI "Warfare" scene that is much stronger than the one in ArmA III. I guess thats is due to the lack of native support for "Warfare" in ArmA III.

But ArmA II is showing it's age, both in graphical as well as the playability and feature aspect.

[Francois_L 5]

Thanks for replies. 

@ineptaphid

Very good suggestions!  Plenty of goodies in "Unsung" for Indo-China & Algerian conflicts.  (Since of French Canadian descent, enjoy scenarios for those theaters.) 

Unless my imagination, ASR_AI *really* a game changer. Enemy seems to try to flank & counterattack now!  Enemies still don't seem to provide covering fire for their comrades, but probably just as well.  If they did that, would get slaughtered.  ; )

@jarrad96

Will keep Air Cav Vietnam in mind too.  

That's interesting about play styles.  From flight sims--esp. Falcon-- we were pretty serious about it with HOTAS rigs, pedals, NATO brevity codes, etc.  Didn't have a command or rank system though.  Newcomers either learned it's not a good idea to go off by yourself & might be good idea to follow advice, or they got shot down.  

Probably silly question, but assume TFAR or ACRE are comm mods?  Every sim-- esp. military one will have its alphabet soup I suppose.

@milosv123344

Will check out RHS, but not sure I understand about VTN.   Right mouse is remapped by RHS so you need VTN, or it improves zooming in?

Brings up a question about programming 4 button trackball (Kensington Expert Mouse) but better not multi-thread.  ; )

As for Arma 2-- real King Solomon decision.  Maybe get it & see which one we like the best.  How's the editor for Arma-2?

@Beagle

Join date of 2001.  Wow... You should have a longevity ribbon or something under your avator.  : )

(Newcomer FAQ:  What do those ribbons under member names mean anyway?)

CTI = capture the island?  In doing a little homework, one site mentions building factories for more advanced vehicles & so on.  So Arma 2 has a strategic element to it that Arma 3 might not have?

If so, perfect excuse to try them both.  ; )

Thanks again everyone, for replies, tips & advice.

[jarrad96 1940]

Yep, TFAR (Task Force Arrowhead Radio) and ACRE (Advanced Combat Radio Environment) both do radio comms when linked with Teamspeak- they do it slightly differently, so it comes down to more personal preference. 

 

On VTN- It disables the 'zoom' ability that by default is hold right mouse (supposed to be an abstraction of focusing your eyes on an object) and if you want that option back you can download a small fix mod for it. 

 

Ribbons generally just show if you participated in events or things like that- for example a common one is 'Make Arma Not War' which was a mission/ mod building contest a year or so ago- if you voted in the contest with your BI account or submitted an entry you got the ribbon. As far as I know they serve no practical purpose, and are just aesthetic. 

 

On CTI- By default Arma 2 had a base-building gamemode that wasn't in A3. It's simpler to use it in A2 due to being incorporated into the base game, but there is a whole bunch of mods around for A3 that replicate  base-building/ logistical systems (examples include ALiVE, Extended Base Mod (and the majority of Exile/ survival modes have it in some form) , iBuild and a few other ones- I've used ALiVE to construct FOB's and forward recon posts and things like that, but have not used the others, so can't comment on them. 

 

Both A2 and A3 have a 'High Command' mode that is on more of a strategic level, with command of entire squads, platoons or larger groups of units at once- you can get combined arms going with CAS, motor/ mechanised/ infantry and heavy armor units as long as the mission is built for it, as the 'High Command' module needs to be supported by the maker of the mission. 

[djotacon 190]

 

1.) Is multi-player safe, or a hacker's paradise?  (Am thinking of the old Diablo & B-net)    On steam, do most players take the sim seriously, or just there for laughs?  (Lobbing grenades at comrades, shooting them in the back, etc.)

 

Sadly not.

 

If you go to the PVP you can find a lot cheaters  - KOTH is a nest of this kind of "people" -, but in the COOP modes you can play perflecty - avoiding some "trolls" -

 

I suggest you try coop modes like DOMINATION, LIBERATION, OPS, etc before suffering the horrible PVP where every internet game is infested right now with those "rats".

 

I think create your own clan - with you friends -  or join to one will be a better experience that jump in the "cheaters hell".

[Francois_L 5]

@jarrad96

Haven't figured out how to make a FOB, but thanks for tip about ALiVE.  Looks like another good one.

Is the idea of digging in or fortifying a position out of date?  Military Science & college ROTC was 30 years ago. Surely they'd have sandbags or something.

Not sure I understand about Arma2 & building a base, but ended up getting one of those package deals with Arma Cold War, and Arma2 with some DLCs.  Perhaps option will come later?  Played 1st mission, but keyboard a bit different, so went back to Arma3 editor.

All of them definitely worth price of admission tho.  :)

@djotacon

PVP I can guess, but had never heard of KOTH until I looked it up.  Sounds like that's one we don't need. Trolls... Cheaters... Rats...

 

Children (chronological age irrelevant-- some people never seem to grow up)  Thanks for the warning.  

Reassuring to know there are other people around who just want the reward & satisfaction of a pulling off a challenging mission.

Best

[ineptaphid 6413]

Another suggestion I would give-play the SP campaign and some of the higher rated missions on the workshop-this is a really good way of getting to grips with all of the controls and systems available in Arma.

[jarrad96 1940]

Digging in, as in literally creating slit trenches and such, is technically possible in Arma but it often turns out not working well or looking hideous due to the inablity to deform the terrain properly to create the ditches needed, so above ground construction often is better, and in that just as a generality sandbag walls are quick and easy to set up, but Hesco barriers are superior if you want a more permanent base and have the space, as Arma has penetration modelling- Sandbags are fine for 5.56 rounds and maybe 7.62 as long as your back isn't against the wall itself, but larger calibers tend to have the occasional round penetrate or deflect inside the sand bagged area, which is often bad for the people inside. It doesn't happen often, but you'll know when it does. 

 

In regards to the use of dug in fortifications in the modern day, real life military, I cannot say with certainty if they are used often- I was not standing military, but in a JROTC (I think) equivalent thing, and most of the fortification related stuff we were taught revolved around VCP's (vehicle Checkpoints) and how to inspect vehicles passing through them- I'm sure someone with more experience IRL can help you out more than me. I've asked a current US mil guy I'm friends with, will update when I get a reply from him. 

EDIT- The guy got back to me- He says that that kind of hasty fighting position is still used, mainly by his unit (SF ODA) due to their role in training militia forces- It's easier to teach irregular forces hasty defences and things like that for ambushes (E-tool and sandbags) , it does still differ from Vietnam era use, but there are some similarities. Any of the various building mods should allow you to place sandbag walls and similar fortifications, and at least one mod (ACE) lets you fill and place individual sand bags, rather than the usual pre-selected length of walls. 

 

In Arma 2/ A2 Operation Arrowhead, the base building aspects of it are in the Showcase category, I think 2 of the missions there have it incorporated-it's more a RTS like contruction mode, compared to ALiVE's slower paced (presumably, depends how you set the server up), and is pre-created blocks of construction, compared to the free-form ALiVE, DUWS (Singleplayer Scenario with base building) or assorted Survival type construction mods. On KOTH, this quote pretty much sums up my feelings of it- " It's the places players go when they hear of ARMA, get the game, and then shit themselves at the difficulty, tactics and learning curve. They just want a rambo run and gun shooter. KoTH servers keep them all in a nice place. "

[DieselJC 196]

For me..and I'm in my early 50's I ended up having my own server so I could control the Mods and missions..also I find that with more Mods the less chance of people not really interested in truly playing the game generally leave you alone. As of now I play a lot of the CTI in Arma 3..especially on Tanoa..the updated version is very well done I think. The Moda and missions for Arma 3 are almost endless with possibilities for anything you want.

 

Diesel

[R0adki11 3945]

Sadly not.

 

If you go to the PVP you can find a lot cheaters  - KOTH is a nest of this kind of "people" -, but in the COOP modes you can play perflecty - avoiding some "trolls" -

 

I suggest you try coop modes like DOMINATION, LIBERATION, OPS, etc before suffering the horrible PVP where every internet game is infested right now with those "rats".

 

I think create your own clan - with you friends -  or join to one will be a better experience that jump in the "cheaters hell".

i would have to disagree regarding your comments regarding PvP. If you play public PvP you may find this, but there is an number of Arma3 squads who play organised PvP and we have no issues with this sort of behaviour. Alot of the squads have been playing PvP for some time. My own squad/group 'FUSION' has been playing since Operation Flashpoint.

 

Also regarding KOTH and such modes, ive played on these sort of servers. But usually do so with 4 or more of squad mates, where we put our teamwork to use.

[Francois_L 5]

Thanks again for replies.  Hadn't really expected any, but will take all the advice I can get.  ; )

 

Playing campaign or user made missions sounds like sage advice.  

 

Unfortunately, both of us are stuck in Arma-3 campaign because it wants to freeze shortly after "signal lost" where you have to cross a checkpoint.  (Or more likely, we're missing something.)

 

If Apex Protocol (single player) is any indication, we're definitely not ready for MP.   : 0 !   

 

Can take bandits out at first location, but simply too many at second target-- "New York" if remember correctly.  They do give you a vehicle, so we're guessing that must be part of the strategy.

 

Hate to keep referring to flight sims, but learning curve is what I like about Arma so far.  Took about a year to survive campaign or MP in Falcon 3 (set at realistic flight model, avionics, etc.)  Am guessing Arma will probably take about as long to get any good at it.  Right now at regular difficulty, AI can pick us off at 400m with iron sights or RCO.  That's almost BVR... Dang! 

 

As for server, hadn't thought of that.  User friendly, or more for IT folks?  Tweaking Windows 10 & setting up home network about the limits of my ability.

 

Best

 

Edit:

 

Just occurred to me about vehicle AI.  An update claims to have fixed things like running into trees & walls, but still happens when making scenarios in Editor.  Worse...  AI driver will hit his own infantry!  They are driving a Range Rover or an aptly named KIA?  Is there a way to suggest improvements, or dev's already well aware of this issue?

 

 

[jarrad96 1940]

The Default AI use rather strange settings- For Regular I would recommend making a custom AI under 'difficulty settings', with about 0.7 'Skill' value, which in general controls the tactics level and intelligence- the higher the value, the more they use cover, smoke, bound and covering fire.

For AI 'Precision' values, I use 0.3 for most situations, which is below the default setting- annoyingly the precision controls both pure accuracy of the enemy fire, but also rate of fire- meaning with a high skill they will nail you easily, but fire less often- I like 0.3 because it's a good balance between accurate fire and the enemy actively suppressing you. Note that any AI with magnified optics also have an accuracy bonus as well, so you can prioritise squad leaders as well to make then enemy less effective at long range. 

EDIT- Vehicle AI was improved for convoys and road travel, and for wheeled vehicles only, not tracked. it is significantly better than before when traveling in convoys or when having the AI follow roads, but yes, offroad they often suck at avoiding things. 

[road runner 4344]

being in your 50's rocks!! till people you know start dying!! :(

[willithappen 194]

being in your 50's rocks!! till people you know start dying!! :(

Then they become the ones that 'rock' :D

 

I'll see myself out.

[Francois_L 5]

@jarrad96

 

Thanks again.  Really appreciate the tips you & others have given me.  If you're ever stateside, beverage of your choice.  ; )

Suggestion made a real difference in Apex campaign which I'd thought was a bit of a stretch.  Have a suppressor, scope & NVGs and I'm *still* getting pinned down & picked off.  

Setting you suggested seems much more realistic as they'd probably just blindly fire into the darkness while other elements attempt to circle & locate.  Second mission, if they don't have a clear shot, just fire I might be?  Also seems much better.  ; )

Vehicle AI:

"VCOM AI Driving Mod" any good?  Nice clip at armaholic, but modded AI might still takes turns too fast & crashes into buildings. Also noticed his demo didn't involve combat. 

 

What was disappointing in a scenario I made, was AI driver seemed to 'panic.'  In trying to get his vehicle's HMG into position to take out enemy sniper, he clipped & killed the grenadier!  He's kind of important since haven't learned how to set up calling in 105mm or OCAS yet.  ; )  

 

@road runner & willithappen

Yep.  Burying people makes you think, and heck I'm only 51.  Now I might have a clue about how the "Great Generation" must feel.

[jarrad96 1940]

Yes, in your example- night fighting- the enemy will fire upon muzzle flash, sound or just suppress in areas they suspect you may be, even if they have no direct visual. The enemy will scan areas for you over time, and focus on a direction of of where the predicted fire was from- you'll want to move from cover to cover when you can, and ideally take out whole patrols as fast you can, so they don't narrow down your location.

 

Ideally try to get on the flank of the AI before engaging, or even if they are in a patrol pattern line them all up for a single burst or 40mm GL round- it's also one of the few times full-auto is useful on an infantry rifle, or just rapid semi-auto, as Arma has body cover- IE if you shoot a guy in a line the bullet will usually be stopped by his body mass and not penetrate to the rest, unless you are using a 50. or something. If the enemy have guys with flashlights, they act as a kind of spotter, and will illuminate targets for the rest of the AI squad- same with night vision in a squad, if only a single guy in the team has NVG's targets he spots will be communicated to the rest of the team, who then will start engaging that area with some fire.

 

AI also react to movement and sound, so simple things like moving while crouched whenever possible, freezing when AI look in your direction, and using soft cover like bushes can help conceal you from an enemy without NVG's - I've had situations where AI would walk past me at night from about 3-5M away as I was prone and silent in a bush, but that would be unlikely if they were in 'alert' or 'combat mode', as they search more thoroughly for you than when they are in 'safe' mode. 

 

In your vehicle scenario, I have been able to have a Hunter/ MATV convoy ( 1X Hunter HMG, 1x truck, 1X Hunter HMG at rear) do a route through sporadic (fireteam sized) contacts on the roadside usually fine- Open areas are usually fine, but ambushes in tight, urban areas can cause the AI to want to break from the convoy route. Set convoy speed to 'slow' or 'regular', not fast, to get more consistent movement.

You said that a HMG hit a friendly? Was the OPFOR unit killed part-way through the HMG burst? The AI fire heavy weapons like a HMG or GMG in bursts often, but what happens is if it starts to fire and kills the target, it needs to 'finish' the 5 round burst or so before they hold fire again- as a result what can happen is the target is killed and the gunner want's to 'reset' to scanning for targets rather than engaging, but he's still holding the trigger till the burst ends, so it may pass over allies in that time. I can't say about V-Com driving, haven't used it, but I don't extensively play with allied vehicles, so maybe you want to see if someone who does can give better feedback. 

[lucius esox 13]

Hi Francois,

 

Can add nothing to this topic other than I am roughly the same age and got into wargaming the same way, i.e. Napoleonic miniatures on a Sandtable followed by Avalon Hill stuff, Squad Leader, Panzerblitz (had over thirty AH titles until my ex decided to give them all away to a charity shop :( ) and then came pc games

 

Just saying hello mate.

 

 

 

You dont stop playing because you grow old, you grow old because you stop playing.

 

 

[Francois_L 5]

@jarrad96

Didn't notice your edit of earlier post where active duty friend got back to you.  Glad to know tactics or 'doctrines' I remember aren't completely out of date.  ; )

 

Vehicle AI running over its own infantry: might sound long, but maybe a little background will help clarify.

 

What we're trying to do is have 'recapturing' a land rover from rebels as an initial objective.  Kind of a reward & allows exploring map inside game.  Then we can setup other ambush sites, etc.  (Share files via cloud, so between us-- never know what to expect in a town, possible choke point, etc.)

Wish I had a recording or screen shot, but didn't think of it.  Anyway, entered town & took fire.  Vickers & M2 gunners made short work of closest ones.

Meanwhile, AI leader orders two soldiers to dismount.  They immediately go prone on the road.

Vehicle AI backs up to presumably get a shot at the remaining sniper.  In doing so, 'friendly' AI seems to have clipped, or run over one of it's own men.  Fratricide?

 

I don't think the sniper had a clear shot at prone infantry behind a row of buildings, but that's the only other explanation that comes to mind.  Grenadier picked off by enemy sniper & vehicle backing up at same time was just a coincidence.

 

Anyway, that's good to know about staying concealed & flashlights or NVG having 'radio contact' & alerting others.  In Apex, one group of four must have been in 'careless' or 'safe' mode in going down a road single file...  Satisfying to setup bi-pod & full auto behind them.  Before that, would probably have picked them off at range with scope.  : )

@Lucius

That's great!  Pleasure to 'meet' you as it were.

 

Got me curious, and found some AH games in the attic.  Squad Leader, Cross of Iron, Panzer Leader, Panzer-Blitz... great stuff!

Don't want to get too nostalgic on you, but was also very pleased to find some 15 & 25mm miniatures along with a big 70mm of MacBeth.  Thought to myself, "Wow... I painted those?  No way I'd have the eyes to do that now!"  : 0 !

So I owe you one I guess.  Proverbial beverage of choice.   If you hadn't posted about Napoleonic & AH games, would've never have checked.  Now 'toy soldiers' are in a nice display case. :)

Kind regards,

 

François

[jarrad96 1940]

So if the guys had dropped to prone and the vehicle in front took some form of heavy fire such as machineguns, AT weapons/ RPG fire or 40MM GL, then yes, the AI is totally stupid enough that It would would prioritise 'get out of line of fire' over 'check behind me for friendlies.' 

Here's a mod that fixes it, and has the bonus of a great mod name. http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=27485

 

In Arma, the AI are 'assumed' to have radios at all times for inter-team communication, even if they are militia or some such- that's the purpose of the 

'radio' inventory item for AI. As a result of this, AI within the squad often change combat mode or detect contacts as a group, as the leader ommands his guys over radio-this is also how AI squads with separated members can go alert at the same time- for simplicity sake it assumes all AI have radios.

Higher command such as between different teams and squads of AI is less easily explained, but it appears to, this is just going on what I've seen, be limited to flanking around a contact's known or suspected position with additional teams of soldiers.

 

For flashlights and NVG's, think of the user within the squad as having a laser designator, marking targets for the rest of the team to engage when the other team members lack a clear visual. By default, no base Arma 3 factions have NVG's to a mixed degree, but I've designed custom factions that make use of this- for example a militia force can be lead by a veteran squad leader who can be ID'ed by having night vision googles, which helps to improve the night fighting ability of the squad, but also serves to make him a high-priority target to be taken out. You would be correct about the casual patrols on Apex- most are in a non-alert state, meaning that sneaking by them is possible, and even in some cases prefered to engaging them. 

[lucius esox 13]

@jarrad96

Didn't notice your edit of earlier post where active duty friend got back to you.  Glad to know tactics or 'doctrines' I remember aren't completely out of date.  ; )

 

Vehicle AI running over its own infantry: might sound long, but maybe a little background will help clarify.

 

What we're trying to do is have 'recapturing' a land rover from rebels as an initial objective.  Kind of a reward & allows exploring map inside game.  Then we can setup other ambush sites, etc.  (Share files via cloud, so between us-- never know what to expect in a town, possible choke point, etc.)

Wish I had a recording or screen shot, but didn't think of it.  Anyway, entered town & took fire.  Vickers & M2 gunners made short work of closest ones.

Meanwhile, AI leader orders two soldiers to dismount.  They immediately go prone on the road.

Vehicle AI backs up to presumably get a shot at the remaining sniper.  In doing so, 'friendly' AI seems to have clipped, or run over one of it's own men.  Fratricide?

 

I don't think the sniper had a clear shot at prone infantry behind a row of buildings, but that's the only other explanation that comes to mind.  Grenadier picked off by enemy sniper & vehicle backing up at same time was just a coincidence.

 

Anyway, that's good to know about staying concealed & flashlights or NVG having 'radio contact' & alerting others.  In Apex, one group of four must have been in 'careless' or 'safe' mode in going down a road single file...  Satisfying to setup bi-pod & full auto behind them.  Before that, would probably have picked them off at range with scope.  : )

@Lucius

That's great!  Pleasure to 'meet' you as it were.

 

Got me curious, and found some AH games in the attic.  Squad Leader, Cross of Iron, Panzer Leader, Panzer-Blitz... great stuff!

Don't want to get too nostalgic on you, but was also very pleased to find some 15 & 25mm miniatures along with a big 70mm of MacBeth.  Thought to myself, "Wow... I painted those?  No way I'd have the eyes to do that now!"  : 0 !

So I owe you one I guess.  Proverbial beverage of choice.   If you hadn't posted about Napoleonic & AH games, would've never have checked.  Now 'toy soldiers' are in a nice display case. :)

Kind regards,

 

François

Yeah, I used to paint 25mm Napoleonic stuff and as you say I look at things like that now and think,, How ??

 

Good idea about putting them out on display.  Wonder if the old AH games are worth anything now ?

 

Blows me away to think of the size of the rulebooks and how the game was even played keeping all that stuff in your head without the aid of a computer.. lol... sorry old git warning there I think..

 

Me and my mates could only dream about how good pc gaming would get and I remember reading an article in the General (AH magazine I think) about the future role of pc's in wargaming, blown away by his predictions and couldn't wait. 

 

Anyone remember Kampfgruppe on the C64 ?  When that came out it basically fulfilled all the predictions, Oh boy what would that guy have made of ARMA ?  

 

Makes you wonder what in heaven's name wargaming will be like on computers in another 30 plus years time ?

 

Anyway Francois, nice one :)

[pooroldspike 128]

Generation Gap? Multi-play for Old Guys & Arma 3 or Arma 2

 

 

I'm 68 years old for my sins and have racked up over 1000 hours so far on the multiplayer Arma 3 King of the Hill servers this year and they're great fun as long as you don't take them too seriously.. :)

What I like about them is that everybody is free to do their own thing without any commanders trying to boss you about.

All age groups are in there from snot-nosed kids to old farts like me, I've been playing wargames with miniatures, boards and computers for 40 years.

If you pop into a KOTH server and see me, say hello and we can team up.

Even better, drop me an email first and I'll give you an outline of how KOTH is structured (objectives, scoring, victory conditions etc) so you won't be going in blind.

Same with anybody else thinking of going in, drop me a mail to pooroldspike (at) aol (dotcom)

 

Below- my character in KOTH suitably tooled up with rifle, grenade launcher, AA launcher and a ruck full of goodies including grenades (HE and smoke), spare ammo and a demolition charge etc, I'd feel naked without that little lot-