Feedback Thread

[Apollyanna 54]

So, does anyone else having this issue when one of your teammates does not have a friendly marker? I already killed 4 innocent people because of that. Not too many but it's still annoying.

 

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A love the La Trinite's clash area!

 

It feels like you reduced machine-gun's abilities? It was my only weapon and now I'm total noob with it lol. But I like how AK-12 feels, I think it will be my fave now.

 

I see a lot of people mastered Scout playing already, but I just can't get used to his weapon's scope.

[esfumato 75]

So, does anyone else having this issue when one of your teammates does not have a friendly marker? I already killed 4 innocent people because of that. Not too many but it's still annoying.

 

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Yes it happened to me yesterday and it was in RAID game mode. So i had to wait 5 miutes until the end of the match to respawn. A complete game destroyer bug.

[suiside 95]

i have seen the opposite happen, team mates flicker once or twice but i also then see markers of the other team.

it is like 10 seconds and then it is normal again,

 

[Locklear 214]

If a player gets too close to an enemy sector in Clash, he is revealed this way. There is a warning for the trespasser, so the reveal can be avoided.

[suiside 95]

even if the flag is white in the picture ? (or can spectators see the other side ?)

and when i noticed it first it was not close to a sector that was not the target

[subject319 25]

Can I just say the new Clash area is amazing.

 

Both incredible fun to play and absolutely beautiful.

[subject319 25]

 

Also, I think you forgot something guys.

[Janitor Sanchez 2]

I came here to agree with subject319. Current clash map is awesome. Link has also been quite enjoyable in terms of layout.

 

On another note, has anyone else been thinking the AK12 is really strong? I realize it shoots 7.62 but I feel like I'm dropping people faster than I have with any other Rifleman or Grenadier class (which typically carries 5.56).

[subject319 25]

On another note, has anyone else been thinking the AK12 is really strong? I realize it shoots 7.62 but I feel like I'm dropping people faster than I have with any other Rifleman or Grenadier class (which typically carries 5.56).

 

I think it's because all damage has been upped to more realistic/ARMA levels, so you don't need 5 bullets to kill anymore, so rifles in general are actually useful again because of their maneuverability.

[suiside 95]

maybe they should have a battle rifle class rather than just rifleman, to reflect the caliber, and tweak the balance with less ammo or something.

[subject319 25]

maybe they should have a battle rifle class rather than just rifleman, to reflect the caliber, and tweak the balance with less ammo or something.

7.62x39mm has basically the same muzzle energy as 5.56, the reason it feels so much more powerful than previous rifles is because they lowered overall health so rifles are actually viable now.

[Brady_The_1 31]

I can't say too much about the location, because I haven't played enough to give any valid feedback. Even though the Clash location seems already far better than the last ones. Link seems to be alright. Raid I cannot say much about just yet.

 

While we are talking about weapons I will give my 2 cents to this topic, at the example of this weeks weapon rotation.

• Ak-12 GL - Calibre too high, especially in combination with UGL. Too OP.
• Zafir - Calibre too high in combination with belt capacity. Too OP.
• Rahim - Can't say anything about it, I am not sure if I even came across anyone using it (haven't played too much though). Could be an interesting Rifleman weapon.
• Type 115 - Assault rifle combined with a semi-automatic sniper rifle. Already its .50 cal aspect alone would be way too OP.
• ASP-1 - Silenced marksman rifle with a 12.7 mm calibre, using sub-sonic bullets with an effective range of 100 to 200 meters, which pretty much covers all game modes in Argo. Way too OP.

Regarding the loadouts I have a couple of ideas, even though it probably goes against everything you have planned for the meta game.

 

Grenadier:
- Max 6.5 Calibre, maybe 5.56 | 1 (- 2) 40mm grenades | RCO/ARCO/MRCO
= Nerf the abuse of grenade spam by reducing the ammunition count and making its usage more tactical (In my playtime I have never experienced any player using 40mm grenades to target a deliberate spot. It's always spam and forget). Mid range sights to balance the lower calibre.

Machine Gunner
- Max 5.56 Calibre | Iron sights
= Nerf the ammunition count of 100 - 200 per belt by lower calibre, iron sights, and potentially restriction to 1 - 2 belts (depending on ammo count).

Marksman
- Bolt-action rifle | Scope without secondary optics (LRPS for example)
= Nerf the "run and gun" usability of such weapons. Make it up by a higher calibre, preferably bolt-action, not semi-automatic.

Rifleman
- Max 7.62 Calibre, maybe 6.5 | Iron sights - RD sights

- Maybe equip the class with one Medkit for self-medication to give it a reason to exist?

= Depending on calibre nerf its stopping power by sights restrictions

Scout
- SMG/PDW (For example) | Silencer | RD sights

= Give it unique characteristics by equipping the weapon(s) with a silencer, thus making it a valuable stealth character.

 

Weapon choices within classes potentially would need balancing, depending on the weapon damage (50 bullets in ADR-97 despite low calibre maybe too much, especially in combination with a high ROF, for example), etc.

Classes could be made more distinct and balanced by using different calibres (Grenadier: 5.56, Rifleman: 6.5, Marksman: 7.62 (single fire, potentially semi-auto), for example).

[subject319 25]

While we are talking about weapons I will give my 2 cents to this topic, at the example of this weeks weapon rotation.

• Ak-12 GL - Calibre too high, especially in combination with UGL. Too OP.
• Zafir - Calibre too high in combination with belt capacity. Too OP.
• Rahim - Can't say anything about it, I am not sure if I even came across anyone using it (haven't played too much though). Could be an interesting Rifleman weapon.
• Type 115 - Assault rifle combined with a semi-automatic sniper rifle. Already its .50 cal aspect alone would be way too OP.
• ASP-1 - Silenced marksman rifle with a 12.7 mm calibre, using sub-sonic bullets with an effective range of 100 to 200 meters, which pretty much covers all game modes in Argo. Way too OP.

Regarding the loadouts I have a couple of ideas, even though it probably goes against everything you have planned for the meta game.

I'm 98% sure this is the result of just changes to the health of players, as even pistols seem to do more damage, and not OP weapons.

 

Also, calibre doesn't have a linear relation to lethality of the round. 7.62x39mm (the AK47/AKM/AK12 round) has less than half the energy of 7.62x54R, which has the exact same calibre, but is a totally different round.

 

The 7.62x39mm this new AK has has basically the same muzzle energy as 5.56, it's just a fatter round, and is a directly comparable round in terms of balance.

[subject319 25]

(ignore this I misread your post about the marksman rifle)

[subject319 25]

deleted

[Brady_The_1 31]

I'm 98% sure this is the result of just changes to the health of players, as even pistols seem to do more damage, and not OP weapons.

 

Also, calibre doesn't have a linear relation to lethality of the round. 7.62x39mm (the AK47/AKM/AK12 round) has less than half the energy of 7.62x54R, which has the exact same calibre, but is a totally different round.

 

The 7.62x39mm this new AK has has basically the same muzzle energy as 5.56, it's just a fatter round, and is a directly comparable round in terms of balance.

 

 

Weapon choices within classes potentially would need balancing, depending on the weapon damage

 

I thought my wording would indicate that my feedback was supposed to be rather broad and general. I guess I failed. If you want to expand on it by weighting every single existing round against each other, please feel free to do so.

 

Anyway, I do think that the TTK currently is too low. I had the impression from their ADS blog that they wanted to simplify the whole process.

[JojoTheSlayer 35]

Not totally sure what style this game is going for, apart from action, but the game is very hip fire like. It actually gives a good indication why vanilla Arma 3 should get a more RO (Red Orchestra) weapon sway while side strafing and hip firing without ADSing. Not a return to OPflash, but more RO like.

 

Project Argo feedback:

 

1. I think hold lean left/right should be removed as default QE and instead toggle lean should be QE and that lean speed needs to be increased to the same as hip fire walking speed. That would make it much more useful in a game like this.
2. Hip fire should have some penalty over range. Like maybe earlier bullet drop or something. Giving people the natural feel in the game to still ADS long range.
3. Sniper rifle optics should NOT have dual sights. They should be forced to use a pistol for short range.
4. Both in Arma and PA. MGs seem unbalanced. They basically have dead on hip fire and little more recoil than an assault rifle with the added upside of not needing to reload. In PA I dont really think they should have red dot or optics at all. Forcing them to use iron sights would at least give them some limitation over the other setups.
5. AK with 40mm seems fine, but suicide range needs to be increased to avoid noob tubing. Its not tactical or even skill based when you can side strafe around a corner and shoot someone at unrealistic short range and still not die yourself doing so. Its just cheap. In a game like this I would rather see more self dmg than enemy dmg close range to avoid it being too viable for that tactic. At range however it seems weak enough to not have a huge impact.
6. Even with only 10 players in a smallish area. The netcode seems too "arma wonkey". I would actually like to see if the "feel" of the game felt more fair at times if all dmg short range (except pistols to negate OP snipers) was instant kill. Currently there are just to many you shoot, he dies, but he shot you as well so you die, situations. Heck, I even had one kill (both sub 100ms) where I was prefiring a door he was coming out for ca 1-2sec and he still had the time to open the door and walk out while shooting and getting me. BI wont get "away" with using Arma excuses in a short range game like PA. A perfect example would be R6S where people are getting upset about 0.1-0.2sec hitbox out of place. Netcode issues is really noticeable in PA, clearly indicating that its not just about a large battle space and a ton of stuff happening.
7. Time can be reduced overall and 10 sec count down could be 5 instead. After a few games, because of the speed of the game, the 10 sec "get ready" timer just seems too long.
8. Performance in general. No matter what setting. I get sub 50fps (4770K, GTX780).
9. GPS should function more like maps do in RO1, BF2 or Squad. Basically a half the screen map that comes out on toggle or hold to see while you can move around. The current tiny box or default Arma 3 see through isnt really that useful. You already know where most of the stuff is locally and going into the M map isnt something one wants to waste time on in order to get a "larger picture".
10. Cap point placement are too open. Making it hard for 1on1 or even 2on2 to go for it without getting side sniped. Ergo, one go for the kills instead of pushing/forcing a cap or house clearing and so on. The inability to really start capping without getting headshot instantly really make the game slow when 4 people die within the 1st min and the last guy sneaks for 3 mins more because he cant stay in the capzone because there is so little cover. Putting more of the cap zones inside houses or similar might avoid this. Doesnt mean every capzone has to be "safe", but currently all of them are pretty much open.
11. Raid gameplay needs to be much more clear when the enemy is capping. Some times one barley notice its getting captured and at others you kill the guy capping. Think its clear only to have the game be over a few seconds later because someone else was there. The taking of the points in Raid are not informative at all.
12. Supply drop capture should be the same button as your "use default action" button. For me at least its awkward pressing space because I dont use WASD keys to move etc.
13. The "walk over" broken wall parts needs addressed. There are several places on the map where you character seemingly cant lift hes feet 10cm to get over something that shouldnt even need a "step over" animation.
14. Global voice should be removed. While its not bad in beta because few play. I highly doubt it would be great in a retail game with 5vs5.
15. Sitting stance seems out of place. I dont think it will be missed if removed because the only thing you notice with it is its severely reduced strafe speed.
16. I would increase default crawl speed and going prone speed while also giving it a bit more "forward motion". To make it more urgent.

Overall, I am not sure how I feel about PA. The hip fire kinda dominates the game play feel and I am not sure that is a benefit because everything else does not feel like a hip fire type game. That and the netcode is an ongoing issue it seems even when there are few players.

[subject319 25]

The "walk over" broken wall parts needs addressed. There are several places on the map where you character seemingly cant lift hes feet 10cm to get over something that shouldnt even need a "step over" animation.

This is an issue I have as well, and would pitch the incredibly simple solution of just adding back the Arma vault.

[subject319 25]

In fact, I was just playing and saw further evidence of why we need a vault again.

 

Both of these points are currently, infuriatingly untraversable. and you have to run all the way around the wall.

 

[Janitor Sanchez 2]

Could you really not get over that wall? I feel like I've gotten through breaks in the wall that are even higher than that. Maybe just wonky side strafing. It can be frustrating when you run into those types of wall breaks, but I do think on a whole they've done a wonderful job in placing the openings in walls. Even if I am not familiar with an area in the map, you can almost always guess where the wall breaks will be based on typical placement. The placement is very fluid and you can run into an area blind and still be able to find your way through. Some spots need to be ironed out.

 

RE: Jojo

 

1. Why must it be a default change? Just change it in settings, if there isn't an option then I agree there should be one, but it doesn't have to be default. I personally hate toggle lean.

2. This is an interesting area. In arma you are never actually in a hip fire mode the gun is always shouldered "ADS" just puts your head over the gun. It is very accurate and feels realistic enough to me, but might be a little too accurate for Argo. I haven't felt much issue with it though so we'll see where that goes in the future.

3. I agree the marksmen should never have a dual optic. For scouts it really depends on the direction Argo heads. I am biased though; I love the scout class and would be very sad to see dual optics go, but when a good gun is in that class I do notice the majority of people will use it. 

6. Definitely needs work here. I notice a significant delay between killing shot landing and the person actually dying.

9. The map is not that useful in Argo and I don't see the need to emulate other games when it already has 2 perfectly functional options. When you look at your map it will take your attention from your surroundings.

10. The openness is easy to work around if you actually play as a team. You can even 1v4 when on attack if you play tactically. I don't feel this needs any change at all. Attacking should be hard.

15. Why remove a stance? If you don't like it don't use it. I love the sitting stance for low walls and small rocks. Tailor your gameplay around the controls, not controls around your gameplay. Sort of like number 1.

 

Overall there are some interesting ideas in there. It's a research game so I'd love to see big changes, like some of what you suggested, just to see how it plays out. I only disagree with you completely on points 1, 9, and 15. While I personally disagree with point 10, I think it would be fun to try out some capture points that are easier to attack and hold without getting sniped.

[war_lord 934]

I think this is a huge change of the goal...

 

 

Again they change the objectives...

 

 

So again, Its obvious that for a fast paced shooter you need shorter maps to make the action almost instantaneous. So in my opinion here it is another incongruity betwen the goals and the process. Using an engine that is mostly done with huge terrains in mind why are you trying to do a shooter with it?

 

 

I suppose that this is only to ovoid the complaints about making arma 3 more casual. Ok they have released it as a standalone game. and this is my question... What's the point in project argo? it is not going to satisfy arma players and is not going to bring new casual players to it ...

The point of Project Argo is be a test bed for a possible future title, it's not a pre-alpha for something they plan to sell, and it's not an attempt to "replace" Arma 3. It's just an experiment to gather data that can be applied to future projects. Bohemia doesn't just make Arma you know.  

[JojoTheSlayer 35]

RE: Jojo

 

1. Why must it be a default change? Just change it in settings, if there isn't an option then I agree there should be one, but it doesn't have to be default. I personally hate toggle lean.

 

15. Why remove a stance? If you don't like it don't use it. I love the sitting stance for low walls and small rocks. Tailor your gameplay around the controls, not controls around your gameplay. Sort of like number 1.

 

re 1: Because I dont think the majority of people would use it at all if its not defaulted to toggle. Doesnt mean I think people shouldnt have the option to reBind it back to hold though... Secondly, an aspect that is missing, sprinting should reset lean back to normal instead of how it is now. Just like in R6S. If lean strafe speed was faster in this game. It would be useful.

 

re 2: Gameplay in Argo is faster. So it would make sense to have dynamic movement be faster in that regards as well. The sitting stance does not aid that happening. It would be better if wasnt there so people could play more dynamically with the stance in a fire fight without keeping in mind the "cant strafe while still kneeling" stance before prone.

 

re hipfire: While I agree that the model is technically shouldering the weapon. What I mean by hip fire is that you are not really aiming and since its a video game you always have a perfect leveled hold on the weapon etc. Making shooting like that very unrealistic IF that is not one is going for. I would actually want to see this address in Arma 3 as well. Because originally back in Operation Flash days. That aspect of unrealistic was why they had the "partially move weapon before model would move" type system. While I agree that wasnt ideal. I think the static isnt that much better since it creates other issues, but a good system that works is the one RO uses in my view. That said, I actually think adding such a system to both Argo and Arma would be nice. It would lower the none ADS (medium to long), but still make hip fire doable short range in Argo because of the "zero movement penalty" it has.

[war_lord 934]

Ubisoft Montreal have seen a lot on unexpected success with their own 5v5 semi-realistic tactical shooter, it's not at all surprising that Bohemia Interactive would want to do some research into the possibility of doing a very similar title at some point in the future. All Argo is research, thus why it's all being done as cheap as possible, on a pre-existing playerbase, with a pre-existing engine, with pre-existing assets. A company that says "we only develop this one series of games, that's all we do, that's all we'll ever do" is a company putting themselves at risk. Being willing to try out experiments like Argo is a good sign.   

[Killjoyy 170]

So far I am thoroughly enjoying Project Argo, however having spent most of my time playing Link hosted at the airfield I find it very displeasing that people can climb onto the barracks and snipe into the other teams spawns. I don't know if this is intended but it's seems a little counterintuitive if the goal is intending on making players want to do the objectives instead of camp the enemy spawn from their spawn. 

I intend on doing a thorough review of Argo once I put in more hours and play more Raid/Clash. Most of my vested time on Argo is with Link, so far it's my favorite game type. :D

[Janitor Sanchez 2]

My biggest impressions from the latest update are:

 

1. Please shorten the music at the start of a round. I am mostly speaking from the perspective of Clash, but when points are within 130m you can run straight into an enemies advance. Then you're left sitting there, wishing you could hear footsteps, but all you can hear is the loud music for 10 more seconds. For a game that aims to be competitive this certainly gets in the way. (Never noticed it being a problem when points were 200m apart as the music would stop around the same time I would settle into my first position)

         1a. In clash the points being 200m away from each other lead to more fulfilling and tactical gameplay from what I saw. Recently I just see everyone run at each other, even if you are meant to be defending I still see people rush out to the enemy anyway knowing they will clash with them in a second or two.

 

2. I don't know if it's just me or maybe the connection to the servers, but hit registry seems to be at its weakest point. Unfortunately I haven't been recording, but countless times I have seen bullets hit the head (even with blood splatter but not always) and the enemy doesn't die. The worst case I saw was a spray around the head 2-3 blood splatters on head, no death. By that point the recoil was getting away from me so I sprayed the legs and got 2 more blood splatters in the knees and the guy dies. The kicker is the killfeed showed a headshot and I was thoroughly confused. This is anecdotal I know, but hit registry has been a big issue for me this update. I can see my bullets hitting and it doesn't seem like they do anything, or the damage is taking too long to register. (I can't play on EU anymore because this issue leads to a lot of death trades that shouldn't be happening)