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TAC-OPS DLC discussion (speculation and hopes)

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16 hours ago, yxman said:

 (there are 100+ good sp missions in workshop even with voice acting)

No there is not and here is why:

- most content is just garbage. No reason to pretend otherwise.

- majority of the content is highly unpolished, which is the biggest turn-off.

- most, especially older missions, are buggy as hell due to regular game updates over the years and no further support by the creators.

- majority of the content is coop and coop is NOT singleplayer. Most of these missions also simply aren't made for a fun solo experience.

- so many user made missions require a truckton of mods, which I am not willing to download.

 

If you are looking for *really well done* story driven singleplayer content, then you're about to have a hard time on the workshop.

 

Some of these user made sandbox missions toolkit thingies are cool and quite clever, but it's not the kind of content I am carving for. 

 

Tl;dr - there is not as much really good sp content on the workshop as people like to imagine.

 

 

Regarding Tac-Ops... srsly, some folks went haywire with completely unrealistic suggestions and expectations. Imo, BI should have shot these thoughts down as soon as they appeard. This happened with every DLC so far, and I'm pretty sure with the tanks DLC it will be the same as well.

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1 hour ago, lexx said:

- majority of the content is coop and coop is NOT singleplayer. Most of these missions also simply aren't made for a fun solo experience.

But let's be honest: Most of BIs SP missions are just coop without an option to opt in. The whole east wind campaign (aside from some intro missions) was you running around commanding stupid AI.

A true SP mission should be something that you can play without AI in your team. But they haven't even really done that before - and Arma doesn't really provide gameplay to be a lone SP player, so that's perfectly fine.

So any coop mission is actually a SP mission if you put team AI in it.

 

I grant you that no more than 5% of the missions you find online are actually crafted well enough to be considered to be played, and that is valid for both SP- and COOP-scenarios. So official missions are always welcome - but it's hardly anything I'd consider to be good sole content for a DLC.

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Was very pleased when I read the Tac Ops will contain 3 SINGLEplayer missions. It felt like the sp community had been quite neglected over the past few years.

 

However, I was kinda disappointed at the same time. I hoped for some new additions to Eden (modules, etc) to make building missions easier.

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@lexx

Orange DLC (Altis Life DLC) got a 5+ hours singleplayer campaign, so at least a bit of sp stuff for the sp ppl, else what belbo said, there are a lot of sp/ai(coop) missions out there.

 

i hoped for squad radar(minimal plattform update), a few assets etc, something... 3 SP missions feels like a real ripoff, like the whole dlc package (compared to dlc bundle #1) but thats my personal opinion.

 

i'm disappointed @BI

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And I explained above why "a lot sp/ai(coop) missions out there" are crap.

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To be honest I'm torn...

 

I was expecting something AT LEAST LIKE Apex, instead, us singleplayer fanatics (I've stopped playing MP some time ago, rubber banding etc. Arma can be enjoyed in an offline environment) were looking for something interesting to come from tac ops. Instead we get another mini-campaign which will probably be the last addition of SP to this title. And also, no new assets, literally retextures would be something to look forward to...

 

Callsign Minotaur for example that @lexx put together is fucking fabulous campaign with no BIS budget, development team or direct engine resources that our beloved BIS has. This isn't just a "I want to play this" post, I and many others want a more developed story to create community scenarios from, and I personally want to see more of the ArmA newcomers to get struck into SP action/hype like previous BIS games. I'm not going to lie, the first season of the East Wind was great but its agreeable that development and story interest was lost on the following seasons. 

 

Yes, I've played Orange DLC, but has anyone realized that most of it is another

Spoiler

cliffhanger

?

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First off, my only real hopes for this was missions (ideally COOP, but SP will do fine since I normally only play with one other person anyway) and the possibility of generic voice clips similar to how the objectives worked in Delta Force 2. Essentially I just wanted generic audio with things like "Approaching Objective Vampire", "Objective destroyed", and other voice clips that could be used by community mission makers to improve their missions. That being said I rarely make polished missions or play community missions so no huge loss for me I guess but I think it would have been a nice step forward for the community. Maybe there are already enough of those present. Never really looked.

I responded to a bunch of people in this comment  below. Mostly people who were complaining about Tac-Ops. I don't want to suggest that you don't have the right to complain, God knows you had to put up with enough of my complaining since ArmA 3 was announced, but I do think some of you are being overly pessimistic or had your hopes set a little too high. They literally promised you nothing other than a name. However, I can understand the disappointment. I imagine it feels how I felt when I realized that the map (which I can't find anymore, can a BI Dev help with that?) uncovered in "Chernarus" didn't have the USSR on it (look how optimistic I was). Any way. Responses:

 

On 10/17/2017 at 3:27 PM, jone_kone said:

Would be really interesting to know what BI had in mind originally. They called it Tac-Ops DLC to begin with, not "mission pack". Did they actually have some assets planned in the beginning but in the end they didn´t have the resources or time to create any quality ones and decided to just concentrate on SP? Could it be that the Tanks DLC takes more resources than originally planned and having it release on time required scrapping assets for Tac-Ops? If they didn´t have any assets planned even to begin with, then it´s really disappointing.

I imagine that this is probably pretty close to it. The name Tac-Ops doesn't suggest new assets or anything. I would say maybe some engine changes to squad AI management or something but nothing beyond that for sure.

 

On 10/17/2017 at 3:28 PM, froggyluv said:

Pretty disappointing but cant say im surprised. I just honestly dont get why they look to us singleplayers like red headed stepchildren -many of us were the initial base of the game series. I get that the current money trend is MP Player Unknown type stuff but does that always have to come at the expense of SP playing?

I'm kind of confused by this part of your post. BI is giving SP players what they wanted which is SP missions.

 

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Tac-OpS: The one I and many ol Swat 4 heads like me have been patiently waiting for....? Yall get no features or content. Look at all the cool items and ideas in this thread - none of it.

Because the DLC is about SP missions not the other stuff.
 

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Im starting to wonder if anyone at BI feels connected to the old OFP series, the Legacy or perhaps they are just a new breed of designer/gamer more lined up with the current trends.

I'm sure a ton of them do. Some of the best mission makers of the franchise work there now and are turning out good content. See LoW.
 

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Ill await more infop on buying it but am definitely disappointed. The last DLC was impressive which I give the highest marks to so im not giving up completely.

Glad to hear you aren't giving up on it. I don't know you that well but I know I've seen you around for a long time which means there is a good chance we have the same kind of interests when it comes to missions and content. We're obviously not getting content but hopefully we'll get some awesome missions.
 

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Edit: And agree with above on the name -Tac Ops gives the definite impression that it will include Urban fighting, cqb type flashbangin, handcuffin, new stealthy animation moves etc....its misleading to a fault

Tac-Ops doesn't give that impression though or at least shouldn't. Tactical means "relating to or constituting actions carefully planned to gain a specific military end" which should really just give the impression of planning and maybe squad leading. Nothing about tactical operations suggests CQB, Urban fighting, flashbangs, hand cuffs, or any of that and no one is saying that those things aren't included. Both flashbangs and handcuffs have been scripted before. Feel like flashbangs wouldn't be done that way anymore though.
 

On 10/17/2017 at 4:08 PM, D_Donskoy said:

...

No assets.

No warfare system.

No Civilian system.

Classic Arma experience ... ? mmm ... for me classic Arma experience is a warfare mode or CTI mode of the game (the universal mode - I spent not 8 hours, ... 2013 - 2009 and - 2000 ... WOW 13 years of my life!!!)))))))))))))), that was experience!!! Like in SP and MP).

Very sad, my hopes gone. 

Classic ArmA isn't CTI though. The first release of ArmA (OFP) didn't include CTI. The biggest mission of OFP was Battlefields which also wasn't even in the first release but added in a patch later. CTI, officially, didn't exist until Armed Assault got a patch if I remember correctly. I think everything before that was CTF. SP Missions, COOP, and CTF are classic ArmA and this mission is about SP. I am a bit disappointed it isn't COOP but that can complicate things. I do really miss Warfare from Armed Assault though. I had a lot of fun playing that.
 

16 hours ago, belbo said:

Paying customers can though. ;)

Then choose by not buying it I guess. If you already bought it and are disappointed then don't buy things when you don't know what they are. I hope you end up loving it though. I for one am excited.
 

15 hours ago, belbo said:

One of the major problems I have with the announced contents of Tac Ops-DLC is that the announcement of the end of development for Arma 3 preceeded it.

There's only the Tanks DLC after Tac Ops - so the only two things we will EVER receive for Arma 3 are a modification with a very specific radius (tracked vehicles) and a bunch of SP missions.

I'm pretty sure there is nothing stopping them from making something else if they so choose. Might be unlikely though.
 

11 hours ago, belbo said:

But let's be honest: Most of BIs SP missions are just coop without an option to opt in. The whole east wind campaign (aside from some intro missions) was you running around commanding stupid AI.

I don't think there is anything wrong with that. The missions I remember best from OFP were the ones where I was commanding AI or fighting along side them. And BI's SP missions definitely aren't like that or at least LoW wasn't. From the description, I feel like these Tac-Ops missions are going to have the quality of LoW but with a more combat-centric focus. I wasn't a huge fan of some of the EWC missions though but I never got very far in either. I found some of them to be too unrealistic. "Oh no they might see the truck!" "Yeah probably since you parked it 200m away from where you stole it from." But some of the other ones were quite fun or interesting. I might have enjoyed them more with a better computer though.

 

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A true SP mission should be something that you can play without AI in your team. But they haven't even really done that before - and Arma doesn't really provide gameplay to be a lone SP player, so that's perfectly fine.

So any coop mission is actually a SP mission if you put team AI in it.

That's what like 75% of LoW was and it did it well.

 

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I grant you that no more than 5% of the missions you find online are actually crafted well enough to be considered to be played, and that is valid for both SP- and COOP-scenarios.

Haven't looked but I wouldn't be surprised. At the very least, they don't have the same production value.

 

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So official missions are always welcome - but it's hardly anything I'd consider to be good sole content for a DLC.

You haven't even seen what the missions will be like though. Maybe they will be the best missions you have ever played.

 

6 hours ago, yxman said:

@lexx

Orange DLC (Altis Life DLC) got a 5+ hours singleplayer campaign, so at least a bit of sp stuff for the sp ppl, else what belbo said, there are a lot of sp/ai(coop) missions out there.

 

Don't call it the Altis Life DLC. I've never even touched Altis Life and I think LoW was one of the best DLCs for ArmA 3. Great campaign!
 

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i hoped for squad radar(minimal plattform update), a few assets etc, something... 3 SP missions feels like a real ripoff, like the whole dlc package (compared to dlc bundle #1) but thats my personal opinion.

 

i'm disappointed @BI

And I wanted a Cold War game. Guess which one of us feels more screwed over. I've been disappointed for 6 years!
 

6 hours ago, M. Glade said:

To be honest I'm torn...

 

I was expecting something AT LEAST LIKE Apex, instead, us singleplayer fanatics (I've stopped playing MP some time ago, rubber banding etc. Arma can be enjoyed in an offline environment) were looking for something interesting to come from tac ops. Instead we get another mini-campaign which will probably be the last addition of SP to this title. And also, no new assets, literally retextures would be something to look forward to...

It might be the best missions they have ever made though. Frankly, I think this sounds like that mission from Armed Assault they always used to show at conventions before the release but was never actually in the game until Blood, Sweat, and Tears did something like it several years(?) after release. Unfortunately, I can't find the video of that convention mission. I guess the last mission was kind of like that too but wasn't as polished as that convention mission or Blood, Sweat, and Tears looked.
 

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Yes, I've played Orange DLC, but has anyone realized that most of it is another cliffhanger?

What do you mean? (Make sure to put it in spoliers)

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1 hour ago, jakerod said:

I'm kind of confused by this part of your post. BI is giving SP players what they wanted which is SP missions.

 

 Really?? Your speaking for all SinglePlayers now? Obviously you could say the same to me but the fact is and im sure your  well aware that many of us singleplayers have been asking for many, many areas we feel our neglected to be addressed, for a very long time. Things like  AI advancements - not configuration adjusting but real behavioural advancements rather than sticking with legacy code. For christs sake we dont even have a sub-routine for AI to realize they're indoors -they act no different than if they were outside just on rails . Point at a wall rather than an open door or window while laying down -sure no problem. Speaking of calibrating configs -the AI subSkills are still FUBAR'ed and that literally IS the game if the AI are all terminator bots whether they be sniper or line cook. Every couple months they do a decidedly not thorough adjustment of said subSkills and they're still a problem, leading one to the conclusion thats its just not that high on their office priority list

 

Lets face it -real military conflicts generally center around urban areas so at least SOME resource should go into effectively enhancing that experience. Whether it be improved pathfinding, clear house and garrison house functions, proper window and door usage the lists goes on and on and if you dont get it by now, well than i honestly just cant help you.

 

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Because the DLC is about SP missions not the other stuff.

 

 I dont know if your trying to be asinine here but your coming off that way and at the least just playing willfully ignorant. Yeah no shite its about missions -so what?! That doesn't  automatically exclude them from adding some content to said mission nor platform feature enhancements. The fact that its NOW about SP missions to the exclusion of all else IS the problem! They are just now telling us this hence why I am reacting

 

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I'm sure a ton of them do. Some of the best mission makers of the franchise work there now and are turning out good content. See LoW.

Already stated in my post if you read it fully.

 

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Tac-Ops doesn't give that impression though or at least shouldn't. Tactical means "relating to or constituting actions carefully planned to gain a specific military end" which should really just give the impression of planning and maybe squad leading. Nothing about tactical operations suggests CQB, Urban fighting, flashbangs, hand cuffs, or any of that and no one is saying that those things aren't included. 

 

 Really? Look at the thread -obviously people expected something more in line of what I was saying. Thanks for the dictionary lesson on the word 'Tactical' -but Tac-Ops very much gives the impression of urban type fighting. But really your missing the point -that being BI has without question moved away from singleplayers and very strongly towards MP -if you cant agree on that than we have nothing further to discuss. Many of the maps are not calibrated at all for AI -there are huge swaths of city areas in Tanoa that AI can not even follow you behind -at ground level!! Thats a huge problem -the terrain guys are not talking to the AI guys or if they are -they dont really care about it. How about BI giving us a small,. dense Urban map dedicated to great AI planning -something we could really sink our teeth into? We had dedicated teams and feedback for each of the previous releases audio team blogs, airplane daily talkback with the devs in their thread and now the same with tanks. Wheres our liaison? Who speaks for us or better yet responds to us?

 

But hey man, if your happy with 3 missions then god bless ya and salut.

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44 minutes ago, froggyluv said:

 

 -there are huge swaths of city areas in Tanoa that AI can not even follow you behind -at ground level!! Thats a huge problem -the terrain guys are not talking to the AI guys or if they are -they dont really care about it. 

 

Word. Example:

 

https://feedback.bistudio.com/T124254

 

---

 

Am I happy with only 3 missions in Tac-Ops?  No, I'd like more.  Like 20.  But I'll take 3. 

 

New assets? Never promised.  A3 has enough assets anyway, but people who haven't already purchased DLC bundle may be less likely to buy this DLC with only 3 missions, especially if there are no new assets.

 

---

 

(*&^*(&#$  Lots of my post was auto-deleted by me pressing the wrong key in Edge.  Oh well.  Forget it.

 

---

 

It is VERY hard for me not to compare every A3 DLC to A2 DLC, all of which were so damn awesome that they will never be forgotten.  Each one was like a new, fresh, mini game.  A3 DLC?  Not so much.  But I haven't yet had the chance to play LoW, which I hear has a top-notch campaign.  Us SP guys all know what A2 had that A3 does not.  Females, ALICE (civvy system), dragging/carrying wounded people, furniture, etc.  Words would be difficult to find that would describe how awesome it would be if ANY of those were added to an A3 DLC.  But I've given up wishing for that, or complaining about it.  

 

With designers like Jezuro and the Zipper around, be prepared for awesomeness in Tac-Ops DLC missions.  Get ready!  

 

 

 

 

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Folks, remember to stay cool and keep things civil.

I too am a SP exclusive player, and I'm not thrilled about the DLC only containing 3 "highly re-playable" missions. I agree with the sentiment that Sp has been severely neglected recently. Basically every new game play feature is MP focused, from the Laws of War leaflet dropping systems, to new versions of laser designators in Marksmen to several things in Jets also. 

 

As the comment above mentioned, many things from A2 that helped Sp players did not make the transition to A3..

 

Regarding the workshop's lack of Sp content, there is more than you would think. There are several highly polished, fully voiced, totally Sp focused campaigns, and a lot of missions too. Is it enough? Of course not-many of us have 2,3 or 4 thousand hours of play time-there will never be enough content. Is there enough official Sp content? Definitely not. 

 

But please, don't descend into turning on each other and simply shouting "there is not enough SP content" or "there is more than enough Sp content".That is not going to help here..

 

What would be more worthwhile is Sp players making it known just how many of us there are. i think we are overlooked, as Coop or MP players will always gain more attention and make points more clearly simply due to the fact that they are in groups..Sp players by it's very nature are usually one lone voice or opinion. 

 

Maybe a new thread detailing how many SP players there are, how we feel very neglected, and some suggestions to BI for some small things that could be dont to enhance the game for us as well would be a good idea?

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12 minutes ago, froggyluv said:


 Really?? Your speaking for all SinglePlayers now?

Haha. I knew you were going to call me out on that and I forgot to change it. I should have said something more along the lines of it's one of the things SP players have been asking for. That still might not be true of everyone but it's at least logical. I have been disappointed about the lack of SP missions since the game was released.
 

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Obviously you could say the same to me but the fact is and im sure your  well aware that many of us singleplayers have been asking for many, many areas we feel our neglected to be addressed, for a very long time. Things like  AI advancements - not configuration adjusting but real behavioural advancements rather than sticking with legacy code. For christs sake we dont even have a sub-routine for AI to realize they're indoors -they act no different than if they were outside just on . Point at a wall rather than an open door or window while laying down -sure no problem. Speaking of calibrating configs -the AI subSkills are still FUBAR'ed and that literally IS the game if the AI are all terminator bots whether they be sniper or line cook. Every couple months they do a decidedly not thorough adjustment of said subSkills and they're still a problem leading, one to then conclusion thats its just not that high on their office priority list

I still think this is the best AI in any game I have played given the open nature of it. Sure Call of Duty and Battlefield have believable AI But they're scripted and don't have to navigate a 200sqkm world.I would welcome improvements for it but I don't think BI has ever made major improvements to AI after a game was released. At least not at the level you want. I'm disappointed by some aspects too. The AI has always lagged behind. I think for a while the AI couldn't kneel in OFP. In Armed Assault they could kneel but couldn't lean. In ArmA 2 they could lean but couldn't step over things. In ArmA 3 they can walk over things at least... I guess.
 

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Lets face it -real military conflicts generally center around urban areas so at least SOME resource should go into effectively enhancing that experience. Whether it be improved pathfinding, clear house and garrison house functions, proper window and door usage the lists goes on and on and if you dont get it by now, well than i honestly just cant help you.

Infantry combat generally does but the game isn't exclusive to infantry combat. A lot of combat takes place outside of towns near hills, bridges, and beachheads. Maybe not so much now since it's commonly counter-insurgency in desert urban areas but in other parts of the world it's around other features. I know of two battles during the Chechen wars; Grozny, and Height 776.  One is a town and one is a hill. I've seen plenty of combat footage from Ukraine that wasn't in towns.

I would absolutely LOVE for them to improve town combat but they have made major improvements since ArmA 2 and major improvements don't tend to get made once the game is released.
 

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 I dont know if your trying to be asinine here but your coming off that way and at the least just playing willfully ignorant. Yeah no shite its about missions -so what?! That doesn't  automatically exclude from them adding some content to said mission nor platform feature enhancements.

Missions is what they budgeted manpower towards and that's what we get. I would love for them to add more but that isn't up to us.

 

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The fact that its NOW about SP missions to the exclusion of all else IS the problem!

You can say that about any other update they have released. Jets was too much about Jets and not Tanks. Tanks is too much about tanks and not enough about zeppelins with sharks with laser beams.

 

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Already stated in my post if you read it fully.

You mentioned the LoW part not the best mission makers part which is why I mentioned it. LoW was just meant to prove the point. Maybe I missed it though.

 

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 Really? Look at the thread -obviously people expected something more in line of what I was saying.

Look at any thread about DLCs. If we had it the communities way we would have had an Apache and the Space Shuttle in the Tanks DLC. Obviously I'm exaggerating but just because people are posting things doesn't mean BI has to make it. Tac-Ops was the most open ended name they have selected so ofcourse there is going to be wild speculation. Not sure how anyone thought it was going to be anything other than missions. Sure, I was expecting a little bit of smaller new content too but I've expected a lot of things when I'm given no guidelines.

 

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Thanks for the dictionary lesson on the word 'Tactical'

You're welcome but I know you didn't need it.
 

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-but Tac-Ops very much gives the impression of urban type fighting.

Why do you think this? I don't mean that in a "dickish" way either I'm honestly curious because Tac-Ops just made me think of Delta Force 2 missions for some reason.
 

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But really your missing the point -that being BI has without question move away from singleplayers and very strongly towards MP -if you cant agree on that than we have nothing further to discuss.

And now they're trying to please the SP community. Too little too late probably but they're trying. I wish they would focus more on SP too but truth be told the MP people have always complained louder than the SP. They seem angrier somehow. That's why I don't fault people for complaining here. I'm only trying to provide understanding to a situation people can't change (and arguing because I enjoy it and lack human interaction). It's also why I keep complaining about the game not being Cold War. Eventually they'll get so annoyed by me that they will just make it... or have me killed.. one of the two.
 

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Many of the maps are not calibrated at all for AI -there are huge swaths of city areas in Tanoa that AI can not even follow you behind -at ground level!! Thats a huge problem -the terrain guys are not talking to the AI guys or if they are -they dont really care about it.

I think this is one of those cases where we agree and they need to change AI. It's really difficult to make realistic looking places and have the AI be able to follow all of it. There is a place in... Molos on Altis where I was walking in an area that is pretty much wide open but my AI decided to not follow me, go into the street parallel to the buildings, and get gunned down by a T-72. On the other hand though I've seen the AI pull some miracles in the narrow alleys of La Trinite on Malden.

 

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How about BI giving us a small,. dense Urban map dedicated to great AI planning -something we could really sink our teeth into?

Because people would just complain about the performance. What size town are you talking here? Is Kavala too small? Urban maps also take a hell of a long time to make. It took me months to get my Miroslavl' map made for ArmA 2. I didn't even finish it and I'm pretty sure the part that I did finish was smaller than Kavala. Then again I didn't have snap points on walls or sidewalks either.
 

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We had dedicated teams and feedback for ewach of the previous releases audio team blogs, airplane daily talkback with the devs in their thread and now the same with tanks. Wheres our liaison? Who speaks for us or better yet responds to us?

I don't think they make Feedback threads until changes start making their way into Dev Branch and I don't think Tac-Ops has. Not sure what you're talking about for the rest since I wasn't paying attention to the Jets DLC. They did a nice job on it though.
 

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But hey man, if your happy with 3 missions then god bless ya and salut.

I could be happier but the missions sound like they're going to be really good so I'm not upset. Sure I would have taken more content but I don't think there's ever been a time where that wasn't the case. I've been wanting a BRDM-Strela and ASU-85 for the past 15 years now (wink wink hint hint BI). I can stand not getting a few small unknown content objects.

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2 minutes ago, froggyluv said:

Can you be more specific? I'll admit that I didn't read the whole page but the top makes no mention of urban combat only realism and tactics. I will admit that a lot of the games listed there have Urban combat but that is only because it is easier to restrict movement in urban areas and those games didn't have open worlds like ArmA. Rainbow Six had plenty of non-urban levels and up until Delta Force: BHD I don't think that franchise did towns.

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Rainbow 6 and Swat4 are their prime examples. Sure they had someoutside areas but the planning and control of AI was pinpoint accurate. Room clearing was a possibility and a big part of both games. I would even say that a tac shooter could very well be outdoors but CQB is a major ingredient of the Tac Shooter. This is an area that is begging to be be enhanced in Arma. And dont even get me started on actual AI TACTICS -ya know like a playbook...   ;)

 

 In general if you meet a gamer calling himself a tac-shooter fan -these ingredients as well as realistic recoil,sway,penetration (which of course ARma shines in) are pretty much implied.

 

Edit: Let me just iterate, i apologize if i seem snippity or downright hostile its just this issue really gets to me and means alot to me. Do you remember when Arma 1 cover came out and had a cover with soldiers lined up at windows firing out from a 2nd floor  -

we cheered "Is this ingame?"

Bi: no currently there are no plans'

 

We had cutscene in arma 2 (and 3) with a recon team stacking, flashbanging and clearing a room

we cheered "Can we actually order this?"

BI: We currently have no plans

 

We were so starved we actually mistook a flyer they posted for a gamescon event in which they placed Arma icons around rooms

we cheered "room clearing and AI pathfinding inbound?!"

BI:No sorry. Just a flyer.

 

 This goes on and on. My frustration is they always fall back to company line rather than hell i dont know, have an actual discussion about why or why not they will go down that route.

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8 minutes ago, froggyluv said:

Rainbow 6 and Swat4 are their prime examples. Sure they had someoutside areas but the planning and control of AI was pinpoint accurate. Room clearing was a possibility and a big part of both games. I would even say that a tac shooter could very well be outdoors but CQB is a major ingredient of the Tac Shooter. This is an area that is begging to be be enhanced in Arma. And dont even get me started on actual AI TACTICS -ya know like a playbook...   ;)

They're only the prime example because they are the most popular though not because they are the most tactical. Additionally, they're only urban because they both center around hostage rescue ,bomb defusal, and police action type stuff which tend to take place in urban areas. I would like the CQB aspects of them in ArmA though. Well, some of them anyway. My tactic in Rambo Six was normally to tell them to move in front of a door, open it, and then hope they won the shootout.

 

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CQB is a major ingredient of the Tac Shooter

I wouldn't say this is true. I actually think ArmA is the most tactical because it does everything. Open areas, towns, forests, beaches, etc. Sure it isn't always perfect but there is only one other tactical shooter that I can think that allows you to move from one of those to the other with total freedom and that's Delta Force which died out a long time ago. At least in terms of new games. Somehow Novalogic is still kicking.

 

But again I agree with you. ArmA needs better CQB combat but we won't see that until ArmA 4 at the earliest most likely.

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2 hours ago, ineptaphid said:

Maybe a new thread detailing how many SP players there are, how we feel very neglected, and some suggestions to BI for some small things that could be dont to enhance the game for us as well would be a good idea?

If I remember right, BI should have statistics on that. At least they were adding stats collection a long time ago... Players are able to opt out, though. Not sure if they are on by default (from a logical point of view I guess they should).

Would be interesting to get some insight here.

On the other hand, multiplayer people likely always drive up the statistics, as singleplayer folks usually stop playing the game once they are done with all content.

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10 hours ago, jakerod said:

What do you mean? (Make sure to put it in spoliers)

 

Spoiler

The Oreokastro story created many many possibilities for those 3 parachuting "CSAT" operators, we still have no clue of what CTRG is doing on Altis many months prior to the display of the nuke or whatever the fuck its called (and how they got there in the first place), I don't know either how the LoW DLC was rolled out - it shows no reference to the previous NATO offenses you participate in which is covered in the last installment of East Wind (which in itself is a huge cliffhanger). There is no wrap-up to the story, theres a huge questionmark to what happens with peacekeeping in the pacific and on and off combat in Altis. 

 

Alright, you go with Crossroads and make AAF surrender. Now the guy in the pink shirt is elected official and theres a Sgt. Kerry here, then what? What about CSAT, what about their stockpile of weapons, what about their long-term involvement in Tanoa, and where the FUCK does Miller put these weapons and why is there no retaliation from CSAT in the last mission of Apex. This is why LoW is another cliffhanger, because it doesn't show an end to this endless story, it literally just displays a conflict in a city with some references to the previous NATO assaults. 

 

I'm not going to lie, it would be a good story if we had someone develop it like BIS did in the first season where you play on Stratis (that was really fun).

 

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1 hour ago, M. Glade said:

 

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The Oreokastro story created many many possibilities for those 3 parachuting "CSAT" operators, we still have no clue of what CTRG is doing on Altis many months prior to the display of the nuke or whatever the fuck its called (and how they got there in the first place), I don't know either how the LoW DLC was rolled out - it shows no reference to the previous NATO offenses you participate in which is covered in the last installment of East Wind (which in itself is a huge cliffhanger). There is no wrap-up to the story, theres a huge questionmark to what happens with peacekeeping in the pacific and on and off combat in Altis. 

 

Alright, you go with Crossroads and make AAF surrender. Now the guy in the pink shirt is elected official and theres a Sgt. Kerry here, then what? What about CSAT, what about their stockpile of weapons, what about their long-term involvement in Tanoa, and where the FUCK does Miller put these weapons and why is there no retaliation from CSAT in the last mission of Apex. This is why LoW is another cliffhanger, because it doesn't show an end to this endless story, it literally just displays a conflict in a city with some references to the previous NATO assaults. 

 

I'm not going to lie, it would be a good story if we had someone develop it like BIS did in the first season where you play on Stratis (that was really fun).

 

I don't want to draw this off topic but I did want to respond to this.

LoW is a self-contained story. It wraps itself up. It in itself isn't a cliffhanger because the story has a resolution. Maybe the main A3 storyline has a cliffhanger but LoW has a resolution and thus isn't a cliffhanger.

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1 hour ago, jakerod said:

I don't want to draw this off topic but I did want to respond to this.

LoW is a self-contained story. It wraps itself up. It in itself isn't a cliffhanger because the story has a resolution. Maybe the main A3 storyline has a cliffhanger but LoW has a resolution and thus isn't a cliffhanger.

 

Yes, but it contributes to the huge cliff hanger that is East Wind. 

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14 hours ago, ineptaphid said:

 - some suggestions to BI for some small things that could be dont to enhance the game.


@ineptaphid - this seems like the most appropriate place for things relating to the Tac-Ops mission pack. Please move this if needed.

While I'm looking forward to the DLC, especially given the quality of the narrative and immersion aspects of LoW and the FFV Showcase recently, I definitely think BI has dropped the ball in not providing any platform improvements alongside Tac-Ops. It just feels like this is exactly the right time - like with every previous DLC. I'm not so fussed about extra assets, but with much better use of the ones we have (ie. making the most of their unique features/ characteristics). 8+ hours of game time seems good, but I'm more worried about quality than quantity.

So here is my list/ rant of (not so) small things as suggestions:

AI -

1. CBQ/ room clearance - for the love of all things Splendid - BI - you even have a whole mini game (Arma Tactics) surrounding this! Why on earth is this not in the main game when CQB/ building/ room clearing is probably the most procedual the AI can be. It just seems like madness that you continually avoid this area - even more so when your DLC is called Tac-Ops! As an officer or commander of AI, you should be able to give a command to clear a building and the AI carry it out. This is what 'Assign Red/ Green/ Blue team' are made for! You can then order them progressively to clear a town. Even better if you could coordinate artillery/ mortar strikes beforehand in-game. Company-level attack style.

Please BI - do it now so you can learn for Arma 4.

2. Make exiting vehicles more fluid (why do AI always raise their weapons when getting out of a vehicle? - it breaks immersion when there is no enemy). Conversely, AI should hit the ground running in a combat situation. Some form of greater awareness for this would help massively. Please, either in Tac-Ops or Tanks DLC - especially considering IFVs and mechanised infantry.
3.. The AI need a militia/untrained behaviour profile (ie. no formations, random group compositions). Even Operation Game-that-shall-not-be-named had different infantry tactics. Syndikat should not fight NATO-style.



Feel/ Immersion -

1. Seriously BI - stop with the lone wolf scenarios. No military does it - unless in rare circumstances. Snipers have spotters, SF work in fireteams, soldiers work in fireteams, attack helicopter crews work together, and so on. I don't care if I just have someone else (AI) with me while I do everything alone. But seriously. Stop it. It robs you of opportunities to have dialogue between the characters which adds depth in the game. As a result, SP can feel soul-less (ala Apex), so...

2. Add more conversation and dialogue. The short briefings at the beginning of most of the Showcases just come across as stunted and unnatural. The reason we connected with the OFP characters is because they said more and they were unique. We'll ignore Will Porter. Despite the -at times- flippancy, the opening mission of the Arma 2 campaign seemed perfect. Arrowhead and BAF were great too.

3. Add more military jargon to dialogue and maps/plans - it adds depth and realism to missions and provides a sense that you are a cog in a machine.

4.  Use of proper radio procedure. This is a world most of us are not involved in but want to play - immerse us in the experience.
5. Tac-Ops should be the most 'green' Arma 3 will ever be. Just like Helicopters and Jets DLC should have been the opportunity to get into the technicality and specifics of those areas, Tac-Ops should get you up close, into the technicality of being an infantryman - of teamwork, skills and drills. Yes, we're nerds for this. Indulge us.

I'd love to see others contribute in a similar manner. There  has to be enough SP players like us to make BI reflect and change their mind.


 

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Tac ops. Tac ops. 

 

no disrespect to the persons that are putting the tac ops missions together. Hoping they are good fun. To me it was evident from the op rep they knew it was gonna be disappointing for people what were looking forward to this one.

 

I'm sure they understand why.  No lost promises made just that of  hope for better things to come.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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My "hope" for Tac Ops is that its not done just as filler. I sincerely hope that (beyond training new staff in mission making) avenues are explored that could eventually feature in future titles. A3 is no longer a "new" product and if ever there was a good time to "experiment", that time would be now. Try to improve the ai, try to push the boundaries, but for Gods sake, TRY. It doesn't have to be perfect, but it should be something more than the status quo we've been used to. We know you can do it if you put your mind to it. ( At least that's what everyone used to tell me)

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No pressure BI lol,  people's life happiness is at stake here, again!

 

im easy regarding the DLC and what ever it might be, and I'm strictly SP,  I've never really been interested in any official Arma 3 missions and played only 5% of the. campaign before getting bored... It's just me, short attention span.

 

I have fully embraced the 3D editor now, that thing is nearly as beautiful as Photoshop, I hope one day BI builds an Orbat that allows us to easily build our own armies and factions (ala the Alive ORBAT) to use in that editor, including easy retexturing of all assets, that would nearly be the perfect sandbox, the perfect one would be the ability to build terrains in it as well, that's where I hope they will take Arma, A fully realised editor, make it "more" easier for (us wanna be) modders to create the content and mission makers to do their thing, that way BI don't need to worry about campaigns and missions or what era the next title will be, etc they just provide the tools... BI mission makers are like "fk off buddy" ?

 

Anyway i have sunk a few hours into this game and kinda hope there is no Arma 4 because now I'm at the age where I feel guilty wasting so many precious hours in a day on a damn computer game, look at me blabbering away I forgot what thread I'm on...

 

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I honestly think the people who are complaining are the same people who disagree with the DLC model in Arma 3.

This is nothing new in terms of (BI is a business, don;t you forget that). 

The lack of platform updates with tac ops reels me back a bit,

but I am perfectly content with getting 8 hours of new and exciting gameplay.

if you're so worried about the price tag, grab the dlc bundle. Not hard people.

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