Addons-only dedicated public server...

[shrike 0]

What would the community think about a powerful dedicated public server featuring a carefully selected number of the most quality addons out there?

I know for sure that many players usually found on the major public servers would love to see a massive 32 players battle on Kegetys awesome Winter Nogojev or would love to use the beautifully crafted Littlebird instead of the good ole' UH-60 for their touch'n'gos...

I for one am getting tired of having to use the same weapons and vehicles over and over again, but I do not want to give up on playing with many players at once...and unfortunately only the smaller or private coop servers are using addons at the moment.

Of course this dream could only come true if we found enough people passionate and dedicated enough to download the necessary addon packs which we would keep as small and convenient as possible.

I am well aware of the fact that some of the big public servers out there already tried their luck with mandatory addons and failed because of quickly decreasing player numbers and therefore returned to original addons only maps.

I hope we can find a different and more successful approach by adressing the hundreds (or thousands) of harcore players out there and motivate them to take a break from the usual public gaming and experience new possibilities...

We would really love to give the community the possibilty to enhance their OFP universe but we need participation to keep the server filled.

I would be happy to read some honest comments since we're approaching the end of our preparation phase and will be online soon...it's time to decide which way to go.

I will not hesitate to refrain from my dream if public opinion shows that this concept won't be successful. You will just get another addon-free public server then...but a kick-a** one :-)

Thanks in advance for your (hopefully) countless opinions, dreams, ideas and pro & cons!

Shrike

[benu 1]

Well, i have one of those "little coop servers" you mention. I switched from winter nogojev v1 to v1.1 90 minutes after Kegetys post on the forum

You generally get less players when you use addons. Much less. I don't think this will work on a large public server EXCEPT you have a bunch of regulars and they are willing to follow you on that path. I guess a homepage where one can d/l all addons is a must too.

I really dislike public servers. Often some idiot is admin, only ctf or tdm maps are run (which can be cool, but on a public they seldom are), you have to wait half an hour to get into the game just to see some lamer blast away all your vehicles in the first minute (sometimes even someone from your own team). And when you do really good the admin ends the mission cause he died a few minutes ago and got bored.

On my server there are (nearly) only coop maps and when we (and by we i mean myself and the regulars on my server) play standard maps we tell everyone which addons they need for the other maps (it's in the MOTD also) and by time more and more players d/l all the addons and become regulars

[shrike 0]

Benu, I completely understand your points  and I want to add that I do not judge servers by their size or the type of gameplay they offer so I hope you did not get me wrong. I actually like to play with people I know and I can depend on but I also like matches on a bigger scale, I prefer the atmosphere of a battlefield. To each his own of course!

I am also well aware of the problems public servers can cause but it depends a LOT on how the server is run.

I think I can frankly say that there are bigger public servers which are run very well, where admins use their power in a constructive way trying to create an enjoyable gaming environment for their guests.

I have to mention Stoners here, the regular admins do their job very well and very fair...I think many people would agree with me here. And there are others as well, running huge C&H maps or bigger CTFs which are fun as hell with many good players.

I agree that OFP (in my opinion) wasn't made for CQB CTF like St. Pierre or similar maps and I prefer not playing them...but again to each his own.

The same goes for the occasional troublemaker coming in and TKing his spawn or flying around with the only chopper to do some sightseeing...that is the price you have to pay on public servers.

But: Our server would be dedicated to the core of the community, the ones passionate and dedicated enough to get the addons and install them correctly, the ones who are really HOT for it!

I think this leaves a fair share of annoying troublemakers outside...

But this shouldn't be a discussion about the pros and cons of public servers, only whether it would be possible to run one effectively with addons or not.

[whisperFFW06 0]

hehehe....

/agree wholeheartily Shrike.

I'm currently searching for the same thing for my server, a pack depicting units as real as it can be. Unfortunately, I didn't found everything I was searching for. I just wanted to correct recoils on most weapons, and make some minor changes on equipement (more equipement transportable by soldiers, different gears, etc...). Don't know if this already exists and where I can find it.

What would be great on a server :

- Nogojev & Winter Nogojev, with Keg Russian units.

- Winter islands.

- IA Trang + Seb Nam Pack.

- Ash Real MBT + IFV + Choppers

- Several ther vehicles (Littlbird and so on).

Restrictive list, but which would make a huge pack. Which will lessen the population on the server. In my point of view, I don't care, pple wanting to play with others units will have downloaded everything, lazy pple won't be able to load an add-on mission. Period. Just have to find a way to differentiate add on free mission from mission w/ addons. a little "a" at the beginning of misison name, perhaps.

So, best thing would be to carefully select the addons put on the server, warn players in the MOTD, indicating the address where to download the pack (it's useless, but who knows) and the naming convention used for addon/addon free missions. If players can't/don't want to read.... well, I don't see what can be done more, and why I would care. Less pple on my server, but more dedicated, perhaps.

Whis'

PS : edit : 2 hours to write my post, Benu has explained perfectly

[nierop 0]

AND....(hi shrike)...It will not hurt to try it all out and see what the response of the public is...

Bye,

Pimmelorus [sHoP]

[benu 1]

I don't wanted to put down any admin. I'm a game admin for some time and know that it's not always easy. What i meant were servers with no "regular" admins where the first guy votes himself admin. There was really no offense taken and i hope my posting didn't offend you. I don't want to put down big ctf servers, but i have had not so good experiences playing on them I'd like to play some really big ctf or tdm missions sometimes.

Regarding missions with addons: We're in the process of renaming most maps on the server by their type (ok, there are a few tdm and ctf map on the server ), their maximal player number and whether they need addons or not. So eg "co 12 bla" for a cooperative map for up to 12 players without addonsnamed bla and "co 06# bla" for a coop map for up to 6 players requiring addons. Yes, this will force players to download the map again, but as i said, the concept of the server is tailored for regulars so i don't think they will mind that much. The positive side is that you can easily select a suitable map as an admin. Even if no regular admin is on the server all players can see whether a mission requires addons or not.

On the server are at the moment (ca 95mb): Jungle Everon, Desert Malden, Winter Nogojev (1.1), Orangeland and Ia Trang Valley. Some SebNam Packs and Fixes, Seb Delta Force, STE Rangers, Ashs Winter Armor, Russian Weapon Pack, S&W Pack, DWR Vietcong, Maaf&Marfi humri, TJPs Desert Pavehawk, SVD Jungle Ops and SASR Addons. Seems alot, but you don't need all of them to play on the server. In fact, most of the missions are standards where you don't need anything. I guess when the base of regulars is large enough we will shift the balance to playing more non-standard maps. BTW: Does anyone have links to desert malden coop maps? I really love that that island and would like to have more maps for it

Experience from my server is: maybe one in ten of the people who try to connect make it on the server. The rest gets kicked off due to missing addons. With a really big server that would rate would be even worse i'd guess cause more of the "standard" players would try to connect. You really should be doing this only when you have a "fanbase" of regulars or are willing to build one over time.

[schaef2000 0]

Just my $.02

what if you had a dedicated addon server that stated this in the servername in the game browser.

this way people know by the servername if they need addons or not before they try to log on. you could also list the site to get the addons from there also.

[benu 1]

schaef2000: Actually, it IS in the servername. But the same idiots that mess up gameplay on most public servers wouldn't understand that part even if it was tattooed into their brains. And i'm really glad that those don't make it onto the server. I know that this sounds like arrogant and elitist, but those ppl really kill the game. In an action thats not so important, in cs i can choose from maybe 10.000 servers and wait max 2 minutes before play starts and if the ppl suck i choose another server. In ofp i have not so many servers, i have to wait for 20 minutes and when some antisocial asshole decides it's fun to fire a law into his own teams respawn zone (and maybe he voted himself admin before that), then it is 20 minutes wasted plus another 20 for the next server.

I have no problem to wait for 20 minutes when i play with cool guys, but waiting that amount of time only to find the server unusable because some idiot was first and voted himself admin is a big letdown. And i don't make this stuff up, these are my experiences from public servers. Also, there was another guy who was wounded by the enemy and because he didn't see any enemies he decides to tk me. On a respawn map. I respawn and tell him not to tk me and begin shooting at the enemy. He gets shot at again and tks me again. That's not funny.

[schaef2000 0]

Oh I hear hear you benu, I've had my share of 13 yearolds running around and acting like idiots. I don't think you'll totally get rid of that on many public servers. That's why i stick to a few with good admins and a strong group of regulars (like Stoner's). Stoner's does use 2 editor addons also.

You're right, most people won't take the time to read stuff about the server they log into. Oh-Well. But i think if there was a server that was dedicated to say vietnam or ww2 or other well known addons, more knowledgeable players would download the addons and play. I would love to play vietnam and ww2 missions in multiplayer.

The problem is getting a base of regulars on the server.

[Lt_Damage 0]

Gameplanet tried the addons path a few months ago, well quite a few actually.

It is correct that you lose players. Mostly new players who connect on the fly for games disappear, so you are left with your hardcore regulars really.

That is good and bad.

Good because your regulars are all you want to play with mostly but they are not there all the time and the server can be quite empty with addons when without addons it would of been packed.

Gameplanet is currently addons-free again and since then it has barely ever been empty in it's peak times.

We chose the best of the addons available and hosted GPADDON PACKS. Winter, Jungle, and Desert.

Missions were specifically designed to take advantage of these addons, and no mission was designed for the original official islands that used addons. All missions were designed on addon islands STT Desert Malden, Jungle Everon and Winter Kolgujev. With appropriate units for each Island.

This made choosing a map without addons as simple as choosing an Official island.

Addon packs were around 30mb each. We hosted them at Gameplanet.

I think it's possible to run an addon server but you must have a large player base first, have lots of regulars, and then expect to maybe lose all except the regulars. Most players who've never been to a server before will not download 90mb of addons to play.

I am thinking of having Gameplanet use addons maybe in the future but I am still deciding how to go about this.

[terox 316]

If OFP was in its infancy, then running an addon server would probably work, however, now its lost its initial surge of newcomers, a balance has been achieved. Where old regulars that fade away are being replaced at the same rate by newbies.

Adding addons to the equation may upset this balance. However maybe as some of the OFP dedicated servers, change to new games, the servers that remain will stay busy (We will have to wait and see)

Having played and adminned on SHOP since OFP was first released, i really would welcome playing with new gimmicks.

But not at the cost of reduced numbers of players. I love playing games of 15 v 15. or on Shrikes server 24 v 24 (Super battles)

As far as the Naming of maps is concerned, we have recently introduced a file name template.

And, if that map requires an addon , we simply preceed the name with @

@ = Addon required

Full template system can be found on this link.

PBO Filename template

It states in order

(Addon Required) (Map Type) (No. of Players) (Map Name) (Game Version) (Map version)

Example

@ C&H (32) Armourgeddon (1.85 v1).noe.pbo

Every map on the server uses this template now, and when you have a hundred maps to scroll through, it really helps the admin to locate it

[Lt_Damage 0]

I like the naming format, I have been using something similar for Gameplanet, we have over 300 missions and its hell searching through them..

current format is:

12_C_RiflesoftheIra.eden.pbo

Just so we can know ammount of players, whether coop or dm or ctf etc, and then the name of it.

But I am thinking of using addons in the future so the "@" is a good idea.

[Lt_Damage 0]

As far as using addons on public servers goes, yes, it does decrease the incoming players, you are mainly left with your regulars who know the server is worth downloading addons for.

This isn't such a bad thing, but it depends how you want to run your server.

At this point in time I want Gameplanet to be available for as many people as possible, I want the OFP community to be able to grow in all parts of the world. There are many servers over in Europe and the Americas but Gameplanet is the only server for Australian / New Zealand / Asia Pacific area and I must help keep it available for those people.

The players are getting together and putting together $1500+ for a new server box, a high end box we will use as our secondary server. This will mean I will turn the old server into a total addons server. Featuring all the latest islands and addons, with custom designed missions.

With two servers you don't really have to worry, people who like to play addons can do so, and people who like original OFP, or are lazy bastards, can play on the new server.

[KaRRiLLioN 0]

I have been struggling with this as well. Most of the regulars want to start using addons, and there are enough regulars to keep the server fairly populated most of the time. At the same time, there are a lot of casual joiners who might get booted with a mission that requires addons. I will still probably put them on there, and have a link to the file on my website. I've been using a naming scheme for a while as well for all of the missions on my server.

For example: CH_Conquer Two Towns.32.Eden.pbo for 1.46 compatible or CH_R_Conquer Two Towns.2-32.Eden.pbo if it's Resistance only. I keep the number of missions down though since there's unfortunately a lot of crap missions to wade through, so if the players don't like one after a few tries, it gets deleted.

CH_

CTF_

TDM_

DD_ = Defend and Destroy

C_ = Coop

_R_ = Resistance only

I think I will be adding on some new island and some of the cool addons like the ADATS, Tunguska, F-14 Tomcats, and hopefully the soon to be release F-15 by deadsoldier.

Since I now have 2- T-1's I'll probably be buying another server to host on.

[Hit_Sqd_Maximus 0]

Fraghaus is currently running an addon server on Direct Play, and since it IS on direct play there is no need to worry about losing the non regs because not many use it anymore for resistance.

The ip is 209.240.25.25 and the link for the addons is Here. The addons on the pack is a collection of some of the best addons out there that dont cause that damned "Cannot Load mission, missing addon: bullshit" and dont have missing textures and all the original readmes by the makers of the addons are in there.

By any chance if you made any addon missions using this pack you can send it to me with icq at 141572337 (Cough* Terox or KaRRiLLion   ) or if there is any addons not included that you would like to see you could do the same.

[Skunk Monkey 0]

Well the policy of SES seemed to work for us, although we were unsure at the start.

We launched our server with no-addons, built up a good rep for a quality server then introduced our addon pack.

We are about to launch version 3.0 of our addon pack and the server is still very busy (so busy we need a second server). We still have a lot of non-addon maps which attract any new players to our server, those which become regulars download the addons so they can play always. We have had 16-24 players on even when playing Addon Maps, Winter Nogojev is a Favourite of everybody and may even be more popular than Nogova on our server at the moment.

I think it is important to not be 100% addons as you will find it hard to build up a "Fan Base" and regulars, once people enjoy your server and then get kicked as they dont have addons - if they like it enough they will download the addons so that next time they wont get kicked. It was hard at first as many people complained that we choose addon maps, soon though all the regulars had the addons.

Our addons

Winter Nogojev 1.1

SES Addon Pack 2.0 (16mb)

SES Addon Pack 3.0 (25Mb) - COMING SOON !!!!!!!

Regarding map naming we use vetserver-style naming system for our maps

co12BM_Paratroopers - Coop - for 12 - by Bullet Magnet

coa12DC_EasyPath(Addons) - coop - with addon - for 12 - by december. The (Addons) bit in the name is optional on our server but it makes it easy for those browsing servers to spot we are playing an addon map.

I think Vetserver use "vo" for Coops with addon - Cant see why it makes no sense to me - but the @ seems a good idea as well, especially if server admins get together and make this a "Standard" Format.

[benu 1]

Maybe we should try find ONE naming standard for all the server admins out there, so, as a player, you don't have to download and save the same mission again and again under a different name.

I would only suggest 3 things:

-Maptype FIRST, cause that is the biggest difference between maps, and maps should be sorted by TYPE. When i want to play a RTS map for example i want to have an overview of all available rts maps, not search through all installed maps. One would also have to define what types of map there are and how to mark them (are coop maps for example called "co" or "c"?)..

-max players Second. I guess one could argue about that, but i think that Maptype is more important. When i want to play coop and maps are sorted according to maptype first and maxplayers second i can easily find coops for 20 players... they are between those for 18 and those for 24 If maps were sorted the other way round i would have to search for 20 player coop maps between all the maps for 20 players... As with maptype the format has to be defined (eg "2-18" or "18"?).

-maps needing addons should be marked in any way. Best would be the symbol for maps requiring addons comes AFTER type and maxplayers, so it doesn't disrupt the sorting order.

Obviously, mapnames have to be all lowercase (because of linux servers) and should not contain "funny" characters (backslash, apostrophe, hyphen or something). One should also define how the fields in the mapname are to be separated (underscore or blank).

I would be willing to rename all our maps when there is a standard for naming maps.

[joltan 0]

6--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (benu @ Nov. 26 2002,126)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Maybe we should try find ONE naming standard for all the server admins out there, so, as a player, you don't have to download and save the same mission again and again under a different name.<span id='postcolor'>

A standard naming convention would be usefull - after all if the same map is played on different servers and named differently people have to download it twice.

Personally think its better to have the addons tag before the number of players - that way addons maps get sorted seperately from non-addons maps, making it easier to select maps if you don't want to use addons.

Like the 'co12' vs 'coa12' naming convention mentioned by Skunk Monkey. This has proven very usefull on the SES server, especially on islands like Nogova where there are lots of missions of just one type (mostly coop there) and a good mixture of addons/non-addons maps.

And yes, addons have proven to be no obstacle to the popularity of the server - but that is based mainly on the fact that there is one well selected pack of addons that doesn't change for months - so people download it once and know they have everything they need to play.

At the beginning this could be used as a "Noob" filter when there where too many players on the server, but nowadays it happens very often that many people we regulars don't know already have the pack, so there's always enough players even for the bigger addons maps.

[benu 1]

Seems to be a matter of taste... so i'm trying to point out why i think the addon flag should go behind the size of the map:

When i with 20 ppl on the server and they want to play coop i want to browse through all the 20 player coop maps, not through all addon maps first and then through all addon-free maps. I play with regulars mostly, who have all the addons, so i like having all maps grouped by type and size, addons or not are not that important. And the maps ARE sorted according to addons needed... first all 20 player coops with addons and then all 20 player coops without addons

Even if there are "visitors" on the server, i have all 20 player coops in view and can select one without addons. But in most of the cases your system would require me to actually scan through 2 lists of maps.

And BTW: I don't really like the addon flag being a letter, it should be something like @ or # or similiar. This makes grepping for addon maps easier and helps keeping sorting order. It also helps them stick out in the list. co and coa really do look too similar in a long list of maps. If someone thinks of implementing an coop-attack type of mission and calls it coa you are running into difficulties with the vetserver system...

[joltan 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (benu @ Nov. 26 2002,14:34)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Even if there are "visitors" on the server, i have all 20 player coops in view and can select one without addons. But in most of the cases your system would require me to actually scan through 2 lists of maps.<span id='postcolor'>

Well, with 'coa'/'co' you have them seperated in the listing, so it doesn't matter if it sticks out. Wether it makes sense to to sort them all together or seperate addons maps from non-addons maps depends mainly on what kind of server you run. The SES server is coop only (with a only a few other maps for variety) - on this server it makes sense to seperate them in two groups and browse them seperately. Playing a addons/non-addons map is usually a descicion you make before you decide what map you really want to play - or you know a certain map uses addons or not and you might find it faster as the list is shorter.

On the other hand, if you have only 10 coop missions on an island, then it might be better to throw them all together and put the tag behind the player number.

One point for using a letter like "a" is that everyone understands at once that 'a' stands for 'addons' - although I admit that basically any symbol would do. It should be remembered, though, that not all symbols are allowed by all filesystems, whereas you will never have problems with a letter!

If you want to have a seperate type description for every single type of maps ('coop attack', 'coop defend', 'coop armor', etc.) you run into big problems anyways. Whatever system you would implement - it will get too complicated for people to be convenient and you will never find it in widespread use. Also there would never be enough maps of one type to get the list sorted in a usefull way by the player number - browsing would get more complicated.

Simplicity is better.

Basic classes for COOP, CTF, TDM, C&H and maybe RTS should be sufficient - everything else can be said with a good descriptive mission title.

One problem I see is the use of author tags if you want to make a system generic - every author would need his unique tag. Thats no problem if you have 2 servers sharing maps and using the same naming convention - but with more servers - and mission authors - it would get complicated. We use them at the moment as it's nice to know who made a map - and it helps to differenciate maps with similar titles or find the right map if you don't remember the full title ("right, that map named something with 'i' made by december... ah, 'intervention', there it is...").

[terox 316]

I didnt mean to start a discussion on filename conventions in a thread about servers and addons, so I have created a thread all about it which hopefully we will discuss there

Map Filename Convention

My last thoughts on addons and dedicated servers.

The best solution to all this, is for an ingame system that

1) Checks to see if the player has the addon that the map requires

2) And if the player doesn't, then automatically download and install it for him

or

Have some way of including the addon in the mapfile itself