Something has to be done about AI shooting through the jungle.

[alumenad 10]

It's unfair to say the least and very damaging for the COOP experience of the game when the AI just shoots you through hundreds of meters of thick bush, plants and jungle trees.

[IndeedPete 1038]

The AI does not necessarily see you, it can hear you moving as well.

[Jackal326 1158]

The AI does not necessarily see you, it can hear you moving as well.

From "hundreds of meters [through] thick bush, plants and jungle trees"?

[IndeedPete 1038]

From "hundreds of meters [through] thick bush, plants and jungle trees"?

 

Ah, sorry, missed the hundreds of metres part. Still, there was a video somewhere showing AI LOS vs. hearing in the jungle.

[road runner 4344]

It's unfair to say the least and very damaging for the COOP experience of the game when the AI just shoots you through hundreds of meters of thick bush, plants and jungle trees.

Hyperbole much?

[HeroesandvillainsOS 1504]

Yeah seriously. I mean, I'm not saying their might not be an issue. But over exaggerated claims and no video evidence or anything just means the topic will get ignored.

If you could record something to demonstrate what you're seeing, something might actually be able to get done about it.

[Jackal326 1158]

If you could record something to demonstrate what you're seeing, something might actually be able to get done about it.

Or, more specifically what the AI is seeing  :D

[R0adki11 3945]

Off topic posts removed, any other issues will be dealt with according to the forum rules  :ph34r:

[2nd ranger 282]

This is just a quick test of AI spotting ability and comparing it to what the player sees. I've used one particular tree type as concealment, because it illustrates what I believe to be the issue, namely that the AI only needs to see a few pixels of your character before identifying you as a target, while you might not even be able to see them through the foliage.

 

From the AI's perspective, I am partially visible in both scenarios (when zoomed in). The question is should the AI be able to spot me considering my level of concealment, distance, and to a lesser extent, environmental conditions? Even if they should see me, should they be able to identify me as an enemy so quickly? To the latter question, look how quickly the enemy guy starts shooting at me after he emerges from behind the tree in the second clip. AI skill is default.

 

 

EDIT: Why was this moved to troubleshooting? It's not a technical problem, it's a legitimate gameplay issue concerning the AI.

[R0adki11 3945]

 

EDIT: Why was this moved to troubleshooting? It's not a technical problem, it's a legitimate gameplay issue concerning the AI.

Its been moved to troubleshooting as its troubleshooting an issue. Im surprised this issue wasn't picked up when Tanoa was on the dev branch.

[Jackal326 1158]

EDIT: Why was this moved to troubleshooting? It's not a technical problem, it's a legitimate gameplay issue concerning the AI.

That needs trouble-shooting...Self-explanatory tbfh.

[2nd ranger 282]

This section is for "help, Arma 3 wont start", not general game improvements. If anything it should be rolled into the AI thread in the dev branch forum.

[Arrhythmix 13]

Aimbots?

[HeroesandvillainsOS 1504]

After seeing the video, I agree this should be moved. No one will from BIS will ever see this here, as this area is more of an "I'm having a problem, can anyone help me" area and not a place for game improvement suggestions.

That video is very very convincing. I'm just as surprised as you all are that this made it through dev branch.

[kylania 567]

More proof they don't cheat:

 

 

Download the mission here.

[LeeManatee 4]

anybody checked if it carries over to other maps?

[germanske_norge 43]

This is just a quick test of AI spotting ability and comparing it to what the player sees. I've used one particular tree type as concealment, because it illustrates what I believe to be the issue, namely that the AI only needs to see a few pixels of your character before identifying you as a target, while you might not even be able to see them through the foliage.

 

From the AI's perspective, I am partially visible in both scenarios (when zoomed in). The question is should the AI be able to spot me considering my level of concealment, distance, and to a lesser extent, environmental conditions? Even if they should see me, should they be able to identify me as an enemy so quickly? To the latter question, look how quickly the enemy guy starts shooting at me after he emerges from behind the tree in the second clip. AI skill is default.

 

 

EDIT: Why was this moved to troubleshooting? It's not a technical problem, it's a legitimate gameplay issue concerning the AI.

Lol, iron sights, no optical headwear apart from basic shades, and he perfectly spots your head through a cluster truck of foilage and begins laying down accurate fire

[kylania 567]

Lol, iron sights, no optical headwear apart from basic shades, and he perfectly spots your head through a cluster truck of foilage and begins laying down accurate fire

 

The first shot was after the player yelled out loud that he'd spotted enemy while standing and they fired in the direction of the player hitting far left and low.  The second shot while the player was clearly visible at medium to close range and was well to the left.

 

Neither shot was to a completely obscured and silent player and neither shot was accurate.

[Defunkt 431]

I have to wonder if people have really thought their complaints about AI through.

 

What other open-world game with entirely autonomous AI is Arma being compared to here?

 

It's to Bohemia's credit that they're clearly good enough to make shallow thinkers find fault with any deviation from an actual human however slight.

 

For my money they're a pretty amazing (and genuinely challenging) accomplishment.

[road runner 4344]

I'll tell you this much with regards to real life, in a contact outside of Fallujah, we ( my call sign) fired over 5000 rounds of ammo, that was 4 vehicles firing belt fed PKM's on average 1,000 rounds per gun, 5 boxes of ammo, in a 30 minute firefight, we fired at suspected firing points and done LOTS of suppressing fire, unlike the gaming world, there was really few and far how many actual hits were claimed.

We were fighting out of these fuck off big grey static REVA's on the road, surrounded by.........NOTHING, and in all of the 30 minutes, my own vehicle was struck by 2 rounds, the insurgents had RPG's and belt feds, honest guys, trying to get the AI in any FPS to emulate anything close to real combat is a task on its own.

 

Here's how it happens most of the time in real life, he fires 30 rounds of 7.62mm short at you, you fire 30 rounds of 5.56mm back at him, he changes his mag, fires another 30 round, you do the same, you repeat this till one of you is dead, out of ammo, or just bored as you can't hit fuck all as you're both being sneaky bastards.

 

If the AI couldn't shoot for shit in A3, everyone would complain, have them make 1 shot one kills, everyone complains, despite all the Holywood bullshit, even Tier1 guy miss, and that it's more a combination of luck, and superior skill that gets the kill, that plus an MBITR with Fast Air on call!! :D

Bottom line, it's down to how you personally perceive the games AI, for me, it's not too bad, if only they'd cross bridges, then it would a massive bonus !! 

 

I just spent 45 minutes trying to keep my little 4 man patrol alive on one of Tanoa's islands, the task was simple, get from A to B alive, whilst trying to outsmart a dozen 10 man patrols, using Icebreakers FAP's.

The bad guys caught us crossing a Banana plantation, man it was awesome, surrounded, AI flanking, and sending in guys to kill us, 8 mags I carried, 10 kills, I ran out of ammo and was down to a pistol mag all my guys were dead, by the time I broke cover and felt I could carry on, with enemy dead, over 30 of them in the surrounding fields, and at the fringes of the plantations, a fucking marksman shot me, that I didn't see.......game over !!

How realistic does the AI have to be to give you that much entertainment for 45 mins? :D

[IndeedPete 1038]

I think part of the "problem" lies in Arma 3's damage system. The vanilla game was pretty much built on body armour which could absorb a few rounds. Or at least reduce the damage. But with these lightly armoured CTRG, Syndikat, and Gendarmerie troops, one hit in the chest is often enough to bring one down. I believe that's where this "AI headshot myth" originates from. They don't necessarily headshot you, they might just hit centre of mass but punch right through your light tac vest or chestrig.

[domokun 515]

One aspect that seems to lead to confusion is difference between an AI's ability to see and to hear enemy.

For example, Ollem developed the TPWCAS mod in which the AI State is displayed via a ball displayed above their head:

* No ball - unsuppressed.
* Green ball - suppressed by friendly fire.
* Yellow ball - suppressed by sporadic enemy fire.
* Red ball - suppressed by heavy enemy fire.
* Black ball - unit is fleeing (fleeing does not mean the unit is running away, but will not be able to be suppressed).

So is there a debug mode where AI Alertness is visually reprensented? e.g. a multi-coloured exclamation mark where:

* No exclamation - unalerted

* Blue exclamation - alerted by audio cue

* Yellow exclamation - alerted by partial-visual cue

* Red exclamation - alerted by clear visual cue

etc.

This I think would help mission designers, modders and even players enormously.

[dragon01 902]

Good suggestion. I had problems with AIs spotting and shooting me through tree canopies on Altis (fighting in on a slope, so the canopies were between me and them). Also, I noticed that they seem way too good at using sound to locate you. From my experience, hitting something you can't see is a very rare occurrence, unless you literally fill the target with bullets. So, if there's no direct LOS, then even if they saw and heard you run behind a bush, they should still be largely unable to hit you unless either using a stabilized MG (and even then, it's a chancy proposition) or having a lot of luck. Concealment doesn't equal cover, but it's still good at forcing enemy to shoot to suppress. They should also never try to aim and shoot by sound alone (of course, this means that in a pitch-black night, they'd be helpless without a flashlight... just like IRL).

[FoxFort 341]

This is ArmA guys. AI is either too dumb or too effective, there is no middle ground.

[2nd ranger 282]

The first shot was after the player yelled out loud that he'd spotted enemy while standing and they fired in the direction of the player hitting far left and low.  The second shot while the player was clearly visible at medium to close range and was well to the left.

 

Neither shot was to a completely obscured and silent player and neither shot was accurate.

 

What's your point? The AI can't detect you by things your character yells out. Try it in the editor. Also, the point of the video is not to say that the AI is unreasonably accurate, or that they can see you when you're completely obscured. It's that they can spot you much too quickly and easily when you should be very hard to spot, and, as I mentioned earlier, that even if they could see me, there is no grace period between "That looks like a guy in those trees" and "CONTACT BAM BAM BAM BAM". The player is not 'clearly visible' in either clip. You can only tell there is anyone there at all because I zoomed in to show you. I picked that particular tree because it's as if the leaves and vines have absolutely no obscuring effect, to the point that they might as well not even be there. Also, it's one of the trees the player is very likely to use as cover in the jungle.

 

Im surprised this issue wasn't picked up when Tanoa was on the dev branch.

 

 

I'm just as surprised as you all are that this made it through dev branch.

 

 

I'm sure it was noticed, but it became very prominent after the campaign was released. There's one mission in particular with weather conditions very similar to the first clip that my co-op buddy and I found extremely frustrating, because you have to make it to extraction through a jungle full of Syndikat, and it felt like we were just getting shot out of nowhere.