UK leaves Europe

[Tonci87 163]

Oh, and apparently this is now a thing in the UK:

http://cheezburger.com/844805/a-girl-created-a-facebook-album-to-bring-awareness-to-post-brexit-racism

[dontknowhow 33]

but i doubt these made the difference of 1+ mil ppl

Actually it's 500k, because the ones that the leave lose go to the remain. And we should also consider the ones who didn't vote.

I think they might actually make it.

 

A lot of people who voted to leave do seem to regret it by now. It seems that many have voted leave, just to vote against Cameron, and not to actually leave the EU. Now that they are faced with the potential consequences, they get second thoughts.

And that is extremely retarded. When Farage says he'll give the money to the NHS everyone believes him, but when a lot of people, some very knowledgeable, say that the economy will suffer, no one cares. I really don't think they can say they didn't know.

 

You cannot be IN and OUT.

well said. We just make each other problems.

 

Britain leaving EU is not only logical, it's fair, even if I regret it.

Very well said. Like Juncker said, it has never been a tight love relationship anyway.

The truth is that they should have never joined. De Gaulle was right.

 

I just don't understand why everyone is mad at Cameron. What was the guy supposed to do? We know now that half country wanted to leave (until getting a second thought, that is), he had a lot of pressure. He just did his job.

 

Oh, and apparently this is now a thing in the UK:

http://cheezburger.com/844805/a-girl-created-a-facebook-album-to-bring-awareness-to-post-brexit-racism

Yep, and acts of violence too.

 

Some months ago there was another referendum in the Netherlands about possible EU membership for Ukraine. Do you remember the final reaction on its results? My point of view is that final reaction on Brexit will be the same - nothing will be done.

From what I know the Dutch government did react, and the agreement with Ukraine has been put on hold. Not that I followed with attention.

There is no talk of membership for Ukraine, by the way. There is only an agreement between the EU and Ukraine to do things together.

But the sad truth is that you might be right. There is a chance that nothing will happen

Actually, it seems now that the government is going very easy on article 50. Are they ever going to invoke it? I even heard that Johnson and/or Gove said that it might take years. Is it true?

I am sorry to say that, but this doesn't look good. It's a major disappointment.

 

 

Edit: now things are starting to get interesting. Banks begin moving some operations out of Britain:

 

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/06/26/financial-times-banks-begin-moving-some-operations-out-of-britain.html

 

Let's see who will follow

[nodunit 397]

Actually it's 500k, because the ones that the leave lose go to the remain. And we should also consider the ones who didn't vote.

I think they might actually make it.

Should we?

They didn't seem to consider it when it came time to vote.

And don't believe too much of what you see blogged on facebook or tumblr, its hard to find someone who has an agenda more than people who use those websites.

I'm just waiting for them to bring up the online petition that 4 or so million people have signed....four million signatures that could be anybody in the world as opposed to within the nation they are voting for.

[red oct 2]

So does anyone in the U.K. think this might cause the Scots to reconsider staying in the U.K.? What about Northern Ireland? Didn't folks there mostly support the E.U.? 

[Caselius 92]

Not from UK myself, but first minister of Scotland has already taken actions against the brexit and there is a big chance of second independence referendum according to her.

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-36621030

[dontknowhow 33]

And don't believe too much of what you see blogged on facebook or tumblr, its hard to find someone who has an agenda more than people who use those websites.

It's on the news everywhere. The only question is how many are having second thoughts

 

Had a chat with my English colleague today. He had planned a big family holiday, and it has been canceled because older members of his family voted to leave. Serious stuff.

He also believes article 50 won't be invoked.

 

Guys, honestly, this is turning into a farce. If you don't want to invoke article 50 at least redo the referendum. Let the parliament reject it. Do something. Keeping this thing open is just making everything worse.

[[evo] dan 78]

This referendum was just as bad as the Scottish one, probably best described as "bullshit, bullshit everywhere". Hard for people to make a logical choice.

 

Given the EU said it wouldn't reform, I voted leave.

 

Before anyone decides to jump on me, my main reason was because of democracy, who of us here got to vote for Junker? or even his party? At least now if I disagree with the government I can try and vote them out (provided you can convince people, with a sound logical argument). Pretty much everything else within the debate was so surrounded with bullshit that it was impossible to make a good decision.

 

Who knows, maybe the EU will see the light and make the changes it really needs to survive.

[chrisb 196]

There won't be another referendum and article 50 will be down the line somewhere.

The U.K. will be o.k. out of the EU, it would also have been o.k. in the EU. Its just democracy in action. There are always winners and losers, just how it goes. But the conservatives have always been a little, lets say, not EU friendly, so I'm fairly sure they will take the country out.

What the terms end up as, is anyone's guess. My guess is there will still be fairly close ties with the EU, even though we'll 'technically' be out..

[Eight Ball 15]

who of us here got to vote for Junker? or even his party?

 

The commission president is elected by the EU parliament which members are themselves elected by the EU citizens.

As someone who holds democracy so dearly in his heart, I'm sure you've participated in the last EU elections, right ?

[kavoven 4]

The commission president is elected by the EU parliament which members are themselves elected by the EU citizens.

As someone who holds democracy so dearly in his heart, I'm sure you've participated in the last EU elections, right ?

 

This should be pinned at the top of the thread, thank you!

[dontknowhow 33]

There won't be another referendum and article 50 will be down the line somewhere.

so what's the point of not doing it now? I know that waiting is a bad idea, and so do the European governments, apparently. But why would that be a good idea? They didn't even mention that the new government will do that after the election. Just "somewhen". Could be years.

[giallustio 767]

The commission president is elected by the EU parliament which members are themselves elected by the EU citizens.

As someone who holds democracy so dearly in his heart, I'm sure you've participated in the last EU elections, right ?

It's not that easy. The role of the parliament is really limited inside the EU. They've made few changes in the past to get over this "limitation" but it's not really enough.

Commission and Parliament are not linked, there's almost no control from the parliament over the commission. Commission is elected by national government, but often they do not have the same "life cycle".

Plus there's not any european party, for example, if we really are "european" we should be able to vote for a french politician or a german politician, no matter where we are from.

[ProfTournesol 956]

Yes, that's part of the problem. This parlement should (1) have real power of control over the governements' designated commission, but then, be elected on European lists, not local. Or (2) be composed of MP coming directly from local Parlements (and not specifically elected as European only representatives), but then, electing a commission from its ranks. The actual system is perfectly ineffective, and that's part of EU being thought as a useless bureaucracy.

[ProfTournesol 956]

(Vice News) How the Brexit could still be stopped (or not....) : https://news.vice.com/article/heres-how-the-uk-could-avoid-leaving-the-european-union

[St. Jimmy 272]

Yes, that's part of the problem. This parlement should (1) have real power of control over the governements' designated commission, but then, be elected on European lists, not local. Or (2) be composed of MP coming directly from local Parlements (and not specifically elected as European only representatives), but then, electing a commission from its ranks. The actual system is perfectly ineffective, and that's part of EU being thought as a useless bureaucracy.

Yeah we have now Jyrki Katainen as "Jobs, Growth, Investment and Competitiveness" in the Commission. He's probably the most hated guy in here but he run away and hide himself in the commission. Only thing he did was to kiss the arse as much as possible to get in there with the cost of ruining some of the own jobs, growth, investment and competitiveness.

[ProfTournesol 956]

Yeah we have now Jyrki Katainen as "Jobs, Growth, Investment and Competitiveness" in the Commission. He's probably the most hated guy in here but he run away and hide himself in the commission. Only thing he did was to kiss the arse as much as possible to get in there with the cost of ruining some of the own jobs, growth, investment and competitiveness.

Haha, yes, the Economic and Finance commissioner, Pierre Moscovici, is one of the worst minister we ever had in France....

[dontknowhow 33]

Haha, yes, the Economic and Finance commissioner, Pierre Moscovici, is one of the worst minister we ever had in France....

ah, thankfully it's not just me. He has always made an impression almost as bad as Schulz.

 

Guys, in a Europe where the different members fight over seats in the commission and in the different agencies, you want to arrange real elections? You want to vote for someone from another country?

Come on, let's be realistic, it's going to take ages. In that sense the Brits are right, they just choose to have nothing to do with it instead of trying to work on it with us.

 

I mean, check this out. 180 million euros spent every year to move the parliament between Brussels and Strasbourg every month, and nothing happens. Why? The French government doesn't want to change it.

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-20096221

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/10565686/The-farce-of-the-EU-travelling-circus.html

[ProfTournesol 956]

ah, thankfully it's not just me. He has always made an impression almost as bad as Schulz.

 

Guys, in a Europe where the different members fight over seats in the commission and in the different agencies, you want to arrange real elections? You want to vote for someone from another country?

Come on, let's be realistic, it's going to take ages. In that sense the Brits are right, they just choose to have nothing to do with it instead of trying to work on it with us.

 

I mean, check this out. 180 million euros spent every year to move the parliament between Brussels and Strasbourg every month, and nothing happens. Why? The French government doesn't want to change it.

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-20096221

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/10565686/The-farce-of-the-EU-travelling-circus.html

Indeed yes, not being able to choose between Brussels and Strasbourg wasn't a good start...

[Defunkt 431]

Second referendum would be hilarious;

 

[  ] Really?

[x] Nah, I was just trolling.

[chrisb 196]

so what's the point of not doing it now? I know that waiting is a bad idea, and so do the European governments, apparently. But why would that be a good idea? They didn't even mention that the new government will do that after the election. Just "somewhen". Could be years.

There will be lots of talks and planning prior to invoking article 50. Once article 50 is invoked, there is a narrow 2year window to get everything sorted out and in place. I think it will take longer than that and a better idea is to talk and plan with others first, prior to article 50 being used.

I believe it will be invoked either late this year or early next. I don't think the next PM, whoever that is, will do it straight away. But article 50 will be invoked at some point. Maybe some of the EU members will push hard enough for it to be invoked before, but from the UK point of view, I believe, time would be a better option than straight in now.

 

Some players in the EU want it done soon, to deter others from holding referendums. They would rather show the UK having a bad time leaving, therefore making an example of the UK to deter others from doing the same.

 

Just wait and see I guess.

[nettrucker 142]

This referendum was just as bad as the Scottish one, probably best described as "bullshit, bullshit everywhere". Hard for people to make a logical choice.

 

Given the EU said it wouldn't reform, I voted leave.

 

Before anyone decides to jump on me, my main reason was because of democracy, who of us here got to vote for Junker? or even his party? At least now if I disagree with the government I can try and vote them out (provided you can convince people, with a sound logical argument). Pretty much everything else within the debate was so surrounded with bullshit that it was impossible to make a good decision.

 

Who knows, maybe the EU will see the light and make the changes it really needs to survive.

 

 

The EU is bankrupt. You did the right thing. At least the UK won't go down with all the rest of the EU member states. My kudos to the Englsih people who have the courage to give the EU the Middle finger.

Cheers

[kavoven 4]

The EU is bankrupt. You did the right thing. At least the UK won't go down with all the rest of the EU member states. My kudos to the Englsih people who have the courage to give the EU the Middle finger.

Cheers

 

Are you trolling or is this your honest opinion? Can you please tell me in which way the EU is more bankrupt than any other country in the world (except for oil-rich nations)?

 

Do you recognize that GBs debt is in the upper third compared to the GNP of other EU countries? (Source) 

[archbishop lazarus 24]

The EU is bankrupt. You did the right thing. At least the UK won't go down with all the rest of the EU member states. My kudos to the Englsih people who have the courage to give the EU the Middle finger.

Cheers

 

Well, not the bankruptcy is the main problem, but the insane levels of corruption. And "thanks" to this, a cancerous tumor grows in EU day by day, it is called Islam.

EU needs an illiberal reform, it should be a loose economical alliance of member states, not a left-liberal dictarorship that it is now. 

[ProfTournesol 956]

Well, not the bankruptcy is the main problem. The insane levels of corruption, that is the main problem. And "thanks" to this, a cancerous tumor grows in EU day by day, it is called Islam.

Corruption ? Where do you live ? Not in Russia, i presume, because that's where corruption rules the country.

[chrisb 196]

Corruption is everywhere in politics and its 'rife'. That's a big problem for ordinary people, lots of governments are bought and paid for by 'interests', not necessarily those of the public kind.