Apex Weapon Feedback

[stburr91 1004]

Maybe this isn't the right place to put this, but please, please cut the length of the suppressors in half, they look ridiculous that long.

 

I don't know why suppressors would become twice the length in the future, you would think they would get smaller. 

 

I love the Spar 16, but between the nurfed 5.56 round, and the ugly suppressors, I just don't see using them much. 

[roberthammer 582]

Maybe this isn't the right place to put this, but please, please cut the length of the suppressors in half, they look ridiculous that long.

Sadly i don't think they will change that long suppressor no matter what 

 

they could cut half the Marksmen suppressors , those are nice but rather long too heh

[skariaxil 24]

Maybe this isn't the right place to put this, but please, please cut the length of the suppressors in half, they look ridiculous that long.

 

I don't know why suppressors would become twice the length in the future, you would think they would get smaller. 

 

I love the Spar 16, but between the nurfed 5.56 round, and the ugly suppressors, I just don't see using them much. 

I haven't stopped hoping for BI to do something about the suppressors since day 1.

[section 20 458]

 

Yeah, they do seem a tad heavy. There's no way in hell a loaded USGI mag is a full pound, and the HK416 11" sure as hell isn't 7.5 lbs with a mag, though it'd be damn close to that weight. 

 

Actually it is over a pound in weight.

 

The HK416 11' at 3.37kg is with an empty mag not fully loaded.

 

The weight of a USGI mag fully loaded is about 1.14 pounds.

https://www.quora.com/How-much-does-a-USGI-M4-magazine-weigh-when-loaded.

 

And an unloaded HK416 11" is approx 3.12kg or 6.8 lbs.

http://www.heckler-koch.com/en/products/military/assault-rifles/hk416-a5/hk416-a5-11/technical-data.html

 

Hover over the mag weight and it stipulates that the .25kg is for the empty mag.

 

Add in even a pound for the mag pushes it closer to 8 lbs.

[ivan keska 45]

Anyone else feel like the AK's with their 7.62x39 ammo do a bit do much damage. Because the 7.62x39 round isn't that great of a man stopper, now granted it's really good at penetrating material. But thats also what makes it less effective, it fails to properly transfer it's energy into the target. Should be more on par with 5.56 damage as oppose to 6.5 which it seems to be around. Now if damage values with armor were better or right, i'd say match or put under 5.56 damage if target is without armor. But is target is wearing lvl 2 or 3 put around 7.62 nato and lvl 1 maybe at 6.5, well lvl 4 and 5 almost no damage since 7.62x39 can't pierce lvl 4 plate and considering lvl 5 irl would be designed to defend against or almost near .50 cal then you would have a worse result.

Also the AK 74u seems under powered considering the 5.54x39 round is known to strike a target and tumble a lot. But this is a short barrelled AK74 and the round might be similar to the 5.56, in that that the round doesn't do very well in short barrels due to the reduced velocity.

 

And one little thing about the Ak 12, is how does a suppressor get onto that gun? Because this style of muzzle device a suppressor can't attach to, and if you remove the muzzle device were does it go. After all you removed a detachable item off the weapon but it's not in your inventory. I know it's a little detail but the RHS mod even addressed it, by having the muzzle breaks their own separate things. But will admit this has been going on for a long time in arma, so not sure why i just noticed it now.

[UkropyPrivyet 32]

DayZ's new rain looks like it has a bit more volume, but from what I've seen, it doesn't really obscure vision that much (saw more of that from fog). They look about the same to me otherwise.

 

Having played a fair bit of .60 (even as someone who loathes DayZ at this point), I can say that it's been quite good at obscuring vision for me. It really does feel like you're being pelted with drops of water from the sky rather than just little light blue strips of texture coming down. Maybe it's just me seeing what I want to see, but it's really, really good. 

 

Actually it is over a pound in weight.

 

The HK416 11' at 3.37kg is with an empty mag not fully loaded.

 

The weight of a USGI mag fully loaded is about 1.14 pounds.

https://www.quora.com/How-much-does-a-USGI-M4-magazine-weigh-when-loaded.

 

And an unloaded HK416 11" is approx 3.12kg or 6.8 lbs.

http://www.heckler-koch.com/en/products/military/assault-rifles/hk416-a5/hk416-a5-11/technical-data.html

 

Hover over the mag weight and it stipulates that the .25kg is for the empty mag.

 

Add in even a pound for the mag pushes it closer to 8 lbs.

 

Really? I've never thought of them weighing a pound, which is funny because I've got about 60 loaded AR mags next to me right now lol. Either way, yeah, that's still quite a bit overweight.

 

Anyone else feel like the AK's with their 7.62x39 ammo do a bit do much damage. Because the 7.62x39 round isn't that great of a man stopper, now granted it's really good at penetrating material. But thats also what makes it less effective, it fails to properly transfer it's energy into the target. Should be more on par with 5.56 damage as oppose to 6.5 which it seems to be around. Now if damage values with armor were better or right, i'd say match or put under 5.56 damage if target is without armor. But is target is wearing lvl 2 or 3 put around 7.62 nato and lvl 1 maybe at 6.5, well lvl 4 and 5 almost no damage since 7.62x39 can't pierce lvl 4 plate and considering lvl 5 irl would be designed to defend against or almost near .50 cal then you would have a worse result.

Also the AK 74u seems under powered considering the 5.54x39 round is known to strike a target and tumble a lot. But this is a short barrelled AK74 and the round might be similar to the 5.56, in that that the round doesn't do very well in short barrels due to the reduced velocity.

 

And one little thing about the Ak 12, is how does a suppressor get onto that gun? Because this style of muzzle device a suppressor can't attach to, and if you remove the muzzle device were does it go. After all you removed a detachable item off the weapon but it's not in your inventory. I know it's a little detail but the RHS mod even addressed it, by having the muzzle breaks their own separate things. But will admit this has been going on for a long time in arma, so not sure why i just noticed it now.

 

To be honest it's not a good man stopper nor is it great at penetrating properly hardened materials. It goes through drywall and semi-dense substances well, but it's not going through an armor plate at all, much less any other material that'll stop 5.56. Right now, level IV isn't a real NIJ certification. Level III ceramic plates are likely what you're talking about, and 7.62x39mm will not go through a ceramic III plate, nor will 5.56. After a bunch of rounds it will, but at that point you're going to be dying of internal bleeding and will probably be on the ground in pain. Also, original XSAPI plates could stop .50 Cal, but I believe it was determined that the extra weight wasn't worth being able to stop a round in front that'll still kill whoever's wearing the vest.

 

I haven't tried out the Suchka yet, but I assume it's probably crap (which it should be). It should do decent damage to flesh targets, but only around as much as 5.45 rather than as much or more. 

 

Pretty sure the AK-12 will get a suppressor in reality eventually, but right now I don't think that's a big issue to the Russian Armed Forces considering how poorly it's continually tested. 

[Ninja-Wolves 9]

Here is what I think:

 

I really like CAR-95 series, the sound is great and the sights are clear. However drum mag for CAR-95-1 is modeled after 80-round magazine of QBB-95, I'd much prefer an authentic magazine size. 

 

SPAR-16 still seems to hover in front of shoulder of user, and the sights are difficult to use. I actually like the firing sound of this weapon. SPAR-16S magazine is modeled after 100-round CMAG, again I'd prefer an authentic magazine size. 

 

I'd like to see green hex variants of Rahim, Cyrus and Navid, and khaki variants of SPMG, Mk-1 and MAR-10. 

 

I'm happy that AK-12 has a curved 7.62mm magazine in devbranch now to match the round it uses. However muzzle velocity of 900m/s is excessive for 7.62mm bullet fired from similar barrel length of AKM, which has muzzle velocity of 715m/s. In fact, the AK-12 does an excessive amount of damage exceeding that of most 7.62x51mm weapons at close range due to this muzzle velocity.

 

A 5.45mm variant of AK-12 using old 5.45mm magazine model would be authentic with muzzle velocity of 900m/s, and would join the lonely AKS-74U as a user of 5.45mm ammo. 

 

I feel like AKM is redundant with the existence of AK-12 which seems to be a straight upgrade and fills the exact same role. That said, I'm still happy it is in the game as it would be a logical choice of weapon for bandits, criminals and terrorists, including the Syndikat faction. I would like to see AKM with grenade launcher. 

 

I'd like to see more RPG-7 warhead types. 

 

I think the grip pod on LIM-85 is out of place, the original bipod of this weapon would be much more logical, or at least a change of color of the grip pod to be black. 

 

I like the concept of Type 115, it is really something unexpected, I think it is perfectly fine and not too out of place given that it is only used by CSAT special operators in the in-game lore. I think special operations forces even in the present day use some quite outlandish gear that we might not even know about. 

 

And that should be all.

[road runner 4344]

Are we Likely to see a change in the position of the optics on the new weapons anytime soon?

[AveryTheKitty 2626]

this addWeapon "arifle_AKM_FL_F";

[roberthammer 582]

this addWeapon "arifle_AKM_FL_F";

Yup , new AKM variant with the Flashlight mounted

also something isn't quite right with the Ak12's new "curved" magazine

http://imgur.com/a/ZVMAK It seems the AK12's magazine isn't thick enough for the 7.62x39 rounds

[inafinus 7]

I'd definitely like to see more vanilla and DLC weapons getting some Apex treatment.

 

The following are lacking new camo options for the new setting:

• Zafir 7.62mm
• Vermin SMG .45 ACP
• 4-Five .45 ACP
• SPMG .338
• Rahim 7.62mm
• Navid 9.3mm
• MAR-10 .338
• Cyrus 9.3mm

 

Also, PLEASE add a 5.45x39mm version of the AK-12. ;_;

[skariaxil 24]

also something isn't quite right with the Ak12's new "curved" magazine

It seems the AK12's magazine isn't thick enough for the 7.62x39 rounds

That, and it seems as if it´s curved too much near the throat of the magazine, and straightens out towards the end.

[liquidpinky 11]

That, and it seems as if it´s curved too much near the throat of the magazine, and straightens out towards the end.

It currently looks like you are mid reload and still need to pull it(the mag) backwards and upwards into the receiver.

Like it isn't fully in at the back.

[UkropyPrivyet 32]

Yup , new AKM variant with the Flashlight mounted

also something isn't quite right with the Ak12's new "curved" magazine

http://imgur.com/a/ZVMAK It seems the AK12's magazine isn't thick enough for the 7.62x39 rounds

 

Oh wow, that is uh.... that is terrifying. BIS please stop dicking around and just realize that 5.45x39mm is a superior cartridge and that the original model was perfectly fine. 

[Ninja-Wolves 9]

Oh wow, that is uh.... that is terrifying. BIS please stop dicking around and just realize that 5.45x39mm is a superior cartridge and that the original model was perfectly fine. 

 

I'm just happy they tried, I mean there are worse inconsistencies in the game, Zafir 7.62mm still has a 5.56mm belt for example. 

 

I'd like to see a 5.45mm AK-12 added alongside the 7.62mm AK-12, they already have the model and the magazine so it's literally a step away

[supercereal4 29]

I'm just happy they tried, I mean there are worse inconsistencies in the game, Zafir 7.62mm still has a 5.56mm belt for example. 

 

 

 

well now I can't un-see that, thanks  :P

[roberthammer 582]

I'm just happy they tried, I mean there are worse inconsistencies in the game, Zafir 7.62mm still has a 5.56mm belt for example.

Wait , what? - last time that i checked the Zafir got 7.62x51 rounds in it

if you meant the magazine box , that is 5.56 one

[Stecki 7]

I am so  incredibly hyped for Apex. I am just counting the days until the 11th. BI's work is truly amazing with this newest expansion.

 

But, there's a major problem that ruins the entire experience.

 

The SPAR-16 and the SPAR-17 are held the way an autistic Call of Duty player would hold a firearm - without shouldering the stock and with a front hand by the magwell. 

 

If an HK-416 (SPAR-16) was held by the magwell and without the weapon shouldered, it would be incredibly awkward to hold. Just aiming it with the grip in the game would be difficult, if not impossible. Controlling the weapon while firing (even semi-automatic firing) would be impossible. Holding the weapon for more than a few minutes like that would fatigue the arms and wrists immensely. Extend the stock and move the hand forward, otherwise the great models, sounds and motions of the SPAR-16 and it's variants are completely wasted due to a complete inaccuracy in how the weapon is held. You've never made this mistake before with any other rifle platform, so why is it magically popping up with this highly anticipated weapon?

 

This is even worse for the HK-417 (SPAR-17). Imagine holding a baseball bat out by one hand with your arm extended from the side. Now imagine doing that for an entire operation - for 8 hours or more. It's not going to happen. Good luck holding it for more than a few minutes like that. That is EXACTLY how holding the SPAR-17 how it is held in game would feel. WHY is the character holding the weapon by the magwell???? The barrel is so long that aiming it like that for 30 seconds would tire your arm out completely. That's not even to mention how the stock doesn't even touch the shoulder of the player. You confuse me by doing that, BI. No other gun in ANY game you have created doesn't touch the shoulder. That leaves me with only 3 options of what could have happened. 1) BI intentionally made the player not shoulder the rifle to try and make the player look like some mega operator that is so strong he can maintain control of a huge weapon with just his fingers and only two points of contact - which would be mind-numbingly idiotic to do intentionally (I don't believe BI did this). 2) BI rushed the rifle out so much that they just made the model and threw it on. This theory is reaffirmed by the fact that in the Apex trailer, the characters have the weapon hovering in front of them without even touching the weapon at all. Or 3) BI simply missed the mistake. This theory isn't really believable because they would have certainly fixed that glaring problem by now... Right? 

 

No matter what the reason is, the way the SPARs are held is ludicrous. No one with any experience with firearms would hold the weapon how it is held by the player in the game. This is doubly true for an experienced and highly trained and refined operator from the CTRG. According to the story presented in ArmA III, CTRG does operations so black that not even a Captain from the CTRG shows up on NATO files. An operator that is qualified enough to do that wouldn't hold the weapon like a two year old. 

 

It's a huge shame because the CSAT's new weapons are AWESOME, the new AKs are great (despite some inaccuracies in animation), the new gear and vehicles are just plain bada** and the map is truly the best BI has ever created. Why mess up such a great expansion with such a simple but glaring problem like the way the SPARs are held.

 

Please, BI, please, fix the way the weapon is held. Either extend the stock and move the hand forward, or move the trigger arm back so the stock is into the shoulder and move the hand forward onto the hand guard of the SPARs. Or, add a foregrip onto the SPAR-17. That would be great and very cool looking.

 

No matter how you go about fixing it, just please, do fix it. It's a horrible problem that anyone who has ever actually looked at someone holding a firearm would notice right away. 

 

Sorry about ranting. Apex looks fantastic right now and it's no doubt one of my favorite expansions for any ArmA game. The work is amazing on all fronts and it's another example of how amazing BI truly is. However, the mistake with the SPARs grip is not ignorable. It's not negligible. It's an immersion breaker, and simply looking at how the weapon is held immediately pulls me out of a pacific jungle firefight and straight into the pause menu to just exit the game because the mistake is so obvious and prevalent. 

 

If you like photos, here's some edited things I threw together quickly to demonstrate my point.

 

 

[probad 44]

looking forward to weapon thermals getting refined, currently bipods and extra parts on certain weapons heat up with the barrel. spar-16 ugl is most glaring example.

really wish we had been given more silencers to pick from for blufor especially, given opfor has interesting choices like the stealth silencer on the typ115 -- the dispersion on the 50cal gun on that needs looking at by the way, it's absurdly accurate out at 500m for such a short barrel.

 

as mentioned multiple times already spar holding position seriously needs fixing, otherwise the apex weapons are a treat to use, the sounds are outstanding to me.

[roberthammer 582]

@Stecki while i agree it looks odd ,but i personally would like to see them having some vert grip or something
also SPAR16 is 11" , not 16.5" and SPAR17 can't have the hand there because that's the position of the bipod

 

Speaking off SPAR rifles - the SPAR16 family could be easily expanded because all parts are already modelled

 

Current SPAR16 is the short rifle 11" just like MXC , could be easily the SPAR16C

 

Current SPAR16S is the carbine 14.5" like MX  , could be the regular SPAR16 with standard magazine instead of drum

 

then SPAR16S could be same as SPAR16 just with longer barrel 16.5" and with the drum

[2nd ranger 282]

You confuse me by doing that, BI. No other gun in ANY game you have created doesn't touch the shoulder.

 

Perhaps the 416 was a pre-existing model that BIS purchased from some external artist. Presumably their weapon modellers already know the proportions and dimensions that are required for the in-game characters, so that could explain why the 416 doesn't 'fit' properly. I wouldn't worry about it though, they'll probably fix it.

 

According to the story presented in ArmA III, CTRG does operations so black that not even a Captain from the CTRG shows up on NATO files.

 

 

Which is why I find it really weird that they have an armpatch now, but that's for another thread.

[Ninja-Wolves 9]

Wait , what? - last time that i checked the Zafir got 7.62x51 rounds in it

if you meant the magazine box , that is 5.56 one

 

The rounds on the Zafir belt are the size of 5.56x45mm rounds... compare them to the rounds on LIM-85 belt

 

7.62x51mm is quite a bit bigger

[roberthammer 582]

The rounds on the Zafir belt are the size of 5.56x45mm rounds... compare them to the rounds on LIM-85 belt

7.62x51mm is quite a bit bigger

http://imgur.com/a/DLc8g

You are right :o

I knew they reused that magazine box from A2 M249 but not that belt wow - that's something lol

[Ninja-Wolves 9]

http://imgur.com/a/DLc8g

You are right :o

I knew they reused that magazine box from A2 M249 but not that belt wow - that's something lol

 

Well... Here's a theory that I just made up 

 

Perhaps BI made assets for an earlier prototype of Arma 3, and then reused them in the release game... it would make sense because the earliest pre-alpha screenshots depicted quite a bit of content that was modeled that still hasn't made it into the game, also there are a few other 3D models which do not match their in-game lore.

 

As you probably experienced first hand, art assets, especially 3D models, tend to be a lot more time consuming to create/modify than config files, so I am absolutely grateful BI took the time to add the 7.62 AK-12 magazine. 

[roberthammer 582]

Well... Here's a theory that I just made up 

Perhaps BI made assets for an earlier prototype of Arma 3, and then reused them in the release game... it would make sense because the earliest pre-alpha screenshots depicted quite a bit of content that was modeled that still hasn't made it into the game, also there are a few other 3D models which do not match their in-game lore.

As you probably experienced first hand, art assets, especially 3D models, tend to be a lot more time consuming to create/modify than config files, so I am absolutely grateful BI took the time to add the 7.62 AK-12 magazine.

Well , when they didn't have a time doing a actual 7.62x51 belt , then they could easily do the caseless 7.62x51 - which is just a black cylinder heh

as for the AK-12 7.62x39 mag - that mag has some issues too :P