AI Driving - Feedback topic

[rossoe 46]

you can tweak lots config settings to minimize performance hit, only way to tell is by giving it a go - it's on Steam so easy to add into the mix!

[.kju 3239]

What are the most pressing AI driving issue in your experience?

 

Is it really objects/units blocking the road?

Or rather AI getting confused by objects near the road, getting off road unnecessarily and with bad consequences, taking corners badly, and traffic avoidance?

 

Not talking about convoy behavior or object interaction with vehicles..

 

[The Man Without Qualities 110]

- unpredictable obstacle avoidance (somethimes I don't see any, but its always at the same spot, must be terrain-related)

- missing crowd management (if few units/vehicles try individually to solve a situation, they usually contradict the actions of others. in that situation a crowd management must take aktion simulating communication/coordination between drivers in such an situation (e.g. you move first, when you are few metres away then I move next..))

- inability to detect obstacles early enougth, vehicles smash often into clearly visible objects at middle of the street

[haleks 8206]

14 minutes ago, The Man Without Qualities said:

- inability to detect obstacles early enougth, vehicles smash often into clearly visible objects at middle of the street

 

My experience is that the AI can't detect anything but terrain objects. If it's not terrain object, the AI will just bump into it, and only then try to find a way around - and that part is ugly to watch too.

[B_Fox 132]

On 4/9/2019 at 8:52 AM, .kju said:

Is it really objects/units blocking the road?

Or rather AI getting confused by objects near the road, getting off road unnecessarily and with bad consequences, taking corners badly, and traffic avoidance?

Its a bit of both.

The AI ends up driving to fast, can't stop in time and then crashes or over shoots a corner.

The AI also show almost no regard for other vehicles. Vic A drives up behind Vic B, bumpers Vic B, Vic A then tries to go around but Vic B pulls to the same side as Vic A resulting in another crash, then Vic A slowly scrapes around Vic B or runs them off the road or complete stop and then a headache ensues.

[The Man Without Qualities 110]

maybe the distributed design aproach might be one of the generic roots for all problems.

If I remeber inteviews with BIS Spanels the made the netcode design years back having in mind that there are weak computers and slow internet connectivity.

Hence they distribute the load of AI calc to the clients as far as they can and to overcome the weak connectivity with the server (and hence the inaccurate sync) the do a kind of prediction at server.

That way "rubberbanding" occurs as well as units "spawning around" for a few meters.

 

If now 3 vehicles meet somewhere, one owned by server, one by client A and one by client B, it is up to the server to merge all events and feed the results back to the clients.

That has some delay and might explain why vehicles sometimes smash into each other, maybe client B was not aware about the fact that client A vehicle made a sudden move.

 

If everything (controler input of all clients) would be merged at server before executed (simulated) it might change the entire behavior. As for oldstyle MP-shooter.

 

Dunno if the methods I described are still in code like that, but if so, I have doubts that changes to the AI routines would result into any significant improvements.

[kremator 1064]

For the first time in ages, I ragequit Arma3.  Holy fucking weeping jesus Devs, do you even play your own game?  I'm in a prowler, and tank is ahead.  We are travelling down a STRAIGHT road on tanoa, and my driver decides to run over the standing stones at the side of the road.  Later, the same road, we come across a tank.  The driver tries to pass the tank, swerving uncontrollably, hits the back of the tank and we're all dead.

 

Sandbox, my friggen arse !

[haleks 8206]

20 minutes ago, kremator said:

For the first time in ages, I ragequit Arma3.  Holy fucking weeping jesus Devs, do you even play your own game?  I'm in a prowler, and tank is ahead.  We are travelling down a STRAIGHT road on tanoa, and my driver decides to run over the standing stones at the side of the road.  Later, the same road, we come across a tank.  The driver tries to pass the tank, swerving uncontrollably, hits the back of the tank and we're all dead.

 

Sandbox, my friggen arse !

 

I gave up on vehicles long time ago; the only place they work is flat deserts without roads, heck even boats aren't able to properly navigate around static ships.

That AI driving overhaul BI started and never finished has made things even worse; for me Arma 3 has been 100% infantry for a couple years, at this point vehicles are just esthetic bonus for fancy insertions and extractions.

[Tankbuster 1733]

Yes. I think this has been part of the move, intended or otherwise away from COOP and towards PvP and it's attendant PvE. That has been what has been buttering BI's bread for years now so it's not to be unexpected.

As playerunknown has shown us, any fool can make an utterly synthetic, addictive PvP that has no reference to real life. It takes skill and years to make AI that are worth their own pixels. Ask the Spanel brothers.

[fn_Quiksilver 1633]

On 4/19/2019 at 3:12 AM, haleks said:

 

I gave up on vehicles long time ago; the only place they work is flat deserts without roads, heck even boats aren't able to properly navigate around static ships.

That AI driving overhaul BI started and never finished has made things even worse; for me Arma 3 has been 100% infantry for a couple years, at this point vehicles are just esthetic bonus for fancy insertions and extractions.

 

imagine if even a couple weeks of effort were put into AI/Driving by the devs in the past few years. would have made huge difference. instead we get politician-like stalling/delaying/deflections/etc until its too late

[tortuosit 485]

On 4/18/2019 at 6:53 PM, kremator said:

For the first time in ages, I ragequit Arma3.  Holy fucking weeping jesus Devs, do you even play your own game?  I'm in a prowler, and tank is ahead.  We are travelling down a STRAIGHT road on tanoa, and my driver decides to run over the standing stones at the side of the road.  Later, the same road, we come across a tank.  The driver tries to pass the tank, swerving uncontrollably, hits the back of the tank and we're all dead.

You must be new. I gave up on street vehicles about 10000 years ago. I was just sick of watching them drive into a street lamp and then needing like 2 minutes to drive around it.

But yet have to check vcom ai for this. I think he guides the ai units with can openers.

[pierremgi 4738]

Just one more "input". I experienced significant differences between "wild" (as is) vehicles (in convoy or not), and vehicles with limited speed... really limited speed (18 km/h). It sounds like the FSM has sufficient slot to take obstacles into account. And, as consequence, the heavier scenario, the worse AI driving.

[Tankbuster 1733]

A normal Saturday morning for me. I've discovered that the roadAt command is a bit odd. In a given position, roadat player is reliable but roadat vehicle player isn't. Having nailed that down, sitting on an ATV, punching variants into the script timer thingy to see which reliable one is quicker, when....

*sigh*

 

 

Edited April 27, 2019 by Tankbuster
original video removed as the soundtrack features Mrs Tank shouting at my son to do his homework :)

[oukej 2910]

On 5/28/2019 at 6:21 PM, DnA said:

28-05-2019
EXE rev. 145702 (game)
...

• Tweaked: Improved AI tank path-following (using re-tuned AITankSteeringComponent PID controller settings provided by CUP - many thanks!)

...

Please, give it a go, turn it upside down, do some AI road rage, etc. 🙂 And let us know if you encounter a situation where the AI would behave even worse than before.

Also big big thanks to CUP for playing with the PID and tweaking it to improve the tank driving AI!

[Grumpy Old Man 3540]

On 6/3/2019 at 3:28 PM, oukej said:

Please, give it a go, turn it upside down, do some AI road rage, etc. 🙂 And let us know if you encounter a situation where the AI would behave even worse than before.

From what I can tell concerning AI tank path following (always tested with editor placed "AWARE" units) it seems that tanks tend to cut corners even more extreme than before, often leaving the road/path for 1.2x the vehicles width.

Also had some weird path decisions (only happens with tanks in aware mode, car class vehicles stay on the road in aware, tanks will also stay on the road but only in safe mode) on livonia, like seen in the picture:

Slammer(up):

 

Prowler(HMG):

All in all tank driving and collision avoidance seems more stable than prior to the tweaks.

Curious about what others have observed since.

 

Cheers

 

[pr9inichek 133]

On 6/3/2019 at 4:28 PM, oukej said:

Please, give it a go, turn it upside down, do some AI road rage, etc. 🙂 And let us know if you encounter a situation where the AI would behave even worse than before.

Also big big thanks to CUP for playing with the PID and tweaking it to improve the tank driving AI!

 

May be create post on Reddit, Discord and Twitter for collect more feedback's?

 

And please post scripts for testing this changes without waste time 🙂

[pr9inichek 133]

Some tests:

 

 

Big Thx to @Grumpy Old Man for script

[martin_lee 33]

@pr9inichek for some reasons when I first load this page the video are from 2016, in which the tank's path finding is ... horrendous, to say the least. Those back flips and explosions 😓

 

When I revisited, the videos are now the new tests. There are still some quirks, but quite a long way we've come in these 3 years

 

 

Edited June 13, 2019 by martin_lee

[Grumpy Old Man 3540]

8 hours ago, pr9inichek said:

Some tests:

On a sidenote:

Don't test using setAccTime, since the AI controllers won't be able to properly compensate that, as far as I observed.

 

Cheers

[pr9inichek 133]

 

 

 

AI - 10:46

Player - 8:27

 

IMHO, Good result

[XOSPECTRE 40]

Tracked ai always go into forest or jungle or stops on mini humps bridges is there any script to use it for tanoa becouse tracked unit on tanoa = stucked ai in forest

 

LIVONIA ai pathfinding = fantastic 

[Meme779 4]

Is this issue fixed?

AI veh can't move in group without member getting stuck somewhere

unless using "safe"  and "column"
 

 

[h4wek 41]

To  BIS developer - This whole topic is about AI driving and calculate paths for land vehicles - what with sea vehicles - command setDriveOnPath not working with them - I have my own engine for calculate paths for big ships and depth dynamic control for submarines with using shipx simulation (beacouse submarineX is cuted to manage only small subs with geometry < 50m from center of model like those used inn vanilla arma)  with using A* algorythm and sonar scaning of depth, and cant use it on normal water vehicles due to this limited command - why it is cuted like that - for land vehicles it works perfectly why I can't use it on water?? - can you prepare dev version with this feature unlocked for water units or is is reserved for VBS only and arma players/modders can work only with this cuted arma posibilities?

[mickeymen 322]

The subordinate AI-Tank drivers in most cases, he will lag behind his commander, he simply will not go to designated waypoint, will not hold any formation.

 

Hello to all!

 

I constantly notice how AI tanks do not stay in formation and constantly lag behind their commander (another tank).

It can only be a part of the subordinates. For example, out of 3 subordinates (Tank Platoon), only one or two units can lag behind. At the same time, as one unit will continue to follow the commander.

Lagging behind can be several kilometers behind. When I look for them on the map, I see that they just stopped. Or move at the speed of a turtle

Does anyone else observe this behavior of tanks?

 

Thus, I cannot use the "Tank Platoon" or "Tank Section", because subordinates, will always and always lag behind their commanders -  the tanks will simply stop or drive very slowly, while the commander of the lagging tank will move in accordance waypoint with normal speed.  As a result, my tank missions are broken.

All tanks of the same group do not move to the desired point, or not go into battle.

 

Sometimes I observe this behavior as a tank commander,  but when I am subordinate to another AI tank.

If I fall behind, I order my AI tank driver to "return to the formation". (Command 1/1) after that my tank goes very very slowly (infantry speed) or does not go at all.

This problem happens randomly and I don't understand why.  Sometimes the AI driver will return to formation at normal speed, and sometimes he will ignore "return to formation order" or drive very slowly.

 

In fact, it turns out that this is a problem for tank AI-drivers.

The driver does not pick up the required speed or simply does not move to get back into formation.

 

I don't know if there is any reason to create a feedback ticket, because unfortunately the topic of AI has been abandoned for several years ...

 

What to do?

[Sparker 184]

On 1/22/2021 at 3:13 PM, h4wek said:

To  BIS developer - This whole topic is about AI driving and calculate paths for land vehicles - what with sea vehicles - command setDriveOnPath not working with them - I have my own engine for calculate paths for big ships and depth dynamic control for submarines with using shipx simulation (beacouse submarineX is cuted to manage only small subs with geometry < 50m from center of model like those used inn vanilla arma)  with using A* algorythm and sonar scaning of depth, and cant use it on normal water vehicles due to this limited command - why it is cuted like that - for land vehicles it works perfectly why I can't use it on water?? - can you prepare dev version with this feature unlocked for water units or is is reserved for VBS only and arma players/modders can work only with this cuted arma posibilities?

Hi, I've just had an idea - ensure that you are passing the correct coordinates to the function. There are various types of them (ASL, ATL, ...), maybe you are just giving wrong coordinate type, which works as expected over terrain but not over water? Unfortunately the setDriveOnPath page doesn't state which coordinate system it uses, but you can try some others.