Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Housesparrow

What work goes into making a vehicle model for use with Arma 3?

Recommended Posts

I've always wanted to create 3D models for Arma 3, as I play a lot of Wasteland and if anyone at some point could use my stuff that would be be great fun I think.

 

However, although I am an expert modeler, the non artistic technical challenges would be a show stopper for me, so I want to here solicit for some information that could help me maybe consider working with mods some day.

 

Q1: Presumably, every model consist of several LOD's (level of detail) objects. How many LOD's would there be, and what would the allowed polycount be typically for various types of objects?

Q2: How are animations handled at all, with regard to any custom animations on any one model?

Q3: Is there a particular software used for putting together 3d objects, animations, sound, textures and effects into a whole?

Q4: What types of animations are allowed? What about blendshapes?

Q5: Are there real issues with licensing and/or trademark re. 3d models of real life objects said to be belonging to certain corporations?

Q6: Presumably, no in-game performance for any 3D model is linked to the shape or implied mass of the 3D model, true? Everything relating to an objects performance in game is just based on code right?

Q7: Are textures layered? E.g unique diffuse + repeating dirt texture

Q8: Are repeating textures used on models?

Q9: Can/will 3D models of vehicles be scaled to the normal/proper scale in the game world?

Q10: Is there a workflow for easily testing how LOD's work for a finished model?

Q11: What um shader effects are used for Arma 3? How about ambient occlusion? 

Q12: How to work with heli rotor blades, that bend down with gravity when at rest, but straighten out (or perhaps bend upwards) when the heli engine is on?

Q13: Is it feasible to create a working seaplane for Arma 3? What would the challenges be?

Q14: Must open boat models "take on water" when used on the ocean in Arma 3? (Because there presumably is no effect for hiding the "displaced" water on a boat model on the ocean.)

Q15: What lighting effects can be used with a model? E.g blinking lights, spot light, gimbal search light, interior lighting, exterior lighting.

Q16: Is damage states something that is included in Arma 3 models? I.e vehicle model shown as being damaged in part or in hole.

Q17: Does Arma 3 make use of any special shader effects, for say rounding off hard edges?

---

Q18: How are flight characteristics designed for say any one type of helicopter in Arma 3?

Q19: How reliant are 3D models on having details baked into the texture with normal maps?

Q20: How does one model a glass window on a vehicle? What is required to make that work in game?

Q21: What are normal maps used for? Parallax mapping?

Q22: Does Arma 3 make use of mapped displacement for vehicle models?

Q23: Is not always the best LOD being used by the game when playing in game and being close to a vehicle model? (Something I think I read on this forum somewhere, not sure I understood it correctly)

Q24: Can/will/may normal maps be used on all the different LOD's objects, for a particular vehicle model? Or just one or two?

Q25: Wow difficult would it be to animate a tall antenna that is wiggly if the vehicle is accelerating in either direction?

Q26: If Arma 3 uses parallax occlusion mapping, are there limitations to using this for a vehicle model?

Q27: How many 2k x 2k textures can be used for texturing your vehicle model?

Q28: If I wanted to inspect an official Arma 3 helicopter poly model, to look at it in wireframe and to look at all the LOD's, how do I do that?

 

There are a bunch of stuff I would like to model nicely: Pilatus Turbo Porter, UH-1N, some seaplane, Super Tucano, Bell 222, Super Puma, Hind, Mirage 2000, King Air B200.

Presuambly it would make sense to start with something more simple.

 

Edit: Hah, I found an old modeling file just now. This is for me perhaps the most fun part. Assembling the reference photos and drawings, to try get a good start without having to eyeball proportions, assuming ofc the reference material is ok. :)

2ynngux.jpg

(This is not the UH-1N though)

 

Wow, turns out I have more of this stuff lying around. This image below should show the Bell 412, which is the civilian version of the UH-1N I suspect, or something very similar:

The reference material for this as seen in the image is really good I remember.

209suo7.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Q1 the max is 22k tris 60 meter that is without the use of proxies LOD im not sure but there is information around the web on the wiki as well that states this also you can import models into a 3d software to see for yourself. 

Q2 Animations should be the same as with any game. its best to make them in a 3d program instead of using oxygen to make animations at least that is what i heard 

Q3 Blender is by far the best program, its a program that does everything you want and its open source, photoshop for textures is great pretty much the basics but importing things into the game is used with oxygen. 

Q5 mmm it really depends if you use content from a game in arma you can be sued if you are making a profit from it and gerneral this is very very very rare... all in all its a bad idea to port content from one game to another but there is nothing stopping you from recreating content. 

Q6 60 meter limit 22k poly, with no use of proxies. 

Q 8 I dont really know if repeating textures can be done with automatic means in say oxygen I think you would have to do it in a 3d program. 

Q9 yes any 3d program has a scale option... if it didn't delete it 

Q13 yes seaplanes are possible but ive heard that they can blow up if you are not gentle with them i think gnat made one for arma 3

Q17 I dont really understand this one I mean they do have AA which rounds out jag out edges but no the smoothness Is done with normal maps and geometry no fancy software jumbo Instagram filters. also im not 100% sure on everything ive said. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've always wanted to create 3D models for Arma 3, as I play a lot of Wasteland and if anyone at some point could use my stuff that would be be great fun I think.

 

However, although I am an expert modeler, the non artistic technical challenges would be a show stopper for me, so I want to here solicit for some information that could help me maybe consider working with mods some day.

 

Q1: Presumably, every model consist of several LOD's (level of detail) objects. How many LOD's would there be, and what would the allowed polycount be typically for various types of objects?

Q2: How are animations handled at all, with regard to any custom animations on any one model?

Q3: Is there a particular software used for putting together 3d objects, animations, sound, textures and effects into a whole?

Q4: What types of animations are allowed? What about blendshapes?

Q5: Are there real issues with licensing and/or trademark re. 3d models of real life objects said to be belonging to certain corporations?

Q6: Presumably, no in-game performance for any 3D model is linked to the shape or implied mass of the 3D model, true? Everything relating to an objects performance in game is just based on code right?

Q7: Are textures layered? E.g unique diffuse + repeating dirt texture

Q8: Are repeating textures used on models?

Q9: Can/will 3D models of vehicles be scaled to the normal/proper scale in the game world?

Q10: Is there a workflow for easily testing how LOD's work for a finished model?

Q11: What um shader effects are used for Arma 3? How about ambient occlusion? 

Q12: How to work with heli rotor blades, that bend down with gravity when at rest, but straighten out (or perhaps bend upwards) when the heli engine is on?

Q13: Is it feasible to create a working seaplane for Arma 3? What would the challenges be?

Q14: Must open boat models "take on water" when used on the ocean in Arma 3? (Because there presumably is no effect for hiding the "displaced" water on a boat model on the ocean.)

Q15: What lighting effects can be used with a model? E.g blinking lights, spot light, gimbal search light, interior lighting, exterior lighting.

Q16: Is damage states something that is included in Arma 3 models? I.e vehicle model shown as being damaged in part or in hole.

Q17: Does Arma 3 make use of any special shader effects, for say rounding off hard edges?

 

There are a bunch of stuff I would like to model nicely: Pilatus Turbo Porter, UH-1N, some seaplane, Super Tucano, Bell 222, Super Puma, Hind, Mirage 2000, King Air B200.

Presuambly it would make sense to start with something more simple.

Q1. Depends on the mesh density of the first lod. Should keep goind down until the last LOD should be 500 verts or less. A minimum of 3-4 is advisable. Going down should follow the formular LOD2 vert count = LOD1 vert count divided by 2. Keeping the overall silhouette and UVs intact should be priority. Also, might wanna reduce the amount of individual textures and materials used as from the 4th lod under.

Q2. There are 2 types of animations: RTM driven (skeleton based objects such characters and other creatures such as animals) and model.cfg driven, such as static objects, or different type of machines (from weapons to planes and everything in between). You need to be a lot more specific to get a better answer

Q3. You can use whatever software you want to create your meshes and textures (from 3ds max to maya to blender etc. anything that can create polygon based game meshes). For getting it into the game, Object builder which is part of A3 Toolset - http://store.steampowered.com/app/233800/

Q4. translation, rotation, scales and mixes of these.  no blendshapes - https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/Model_Config

Q5. There can be, in general terms i wouldn't expect it, but if you plan creating assets from Star Wars, think again, they are really prudent with their IPs.

Q6. nope. It is based on a huge number of things, but mainly draw calls, as with every other game out there (polycount, texture resolution, number of textures, number of lods - the more the merrier - special lods density and optimization etc)

Q7. so a certain degree yes, not all texture maps are layered. Textures can be used both tilable and 0-1 UV coordinates space. Depends on type of map and type of vertex and pixel shaders used: https://forums.bistudio.com/topic/83674-rvmat-basics-supershadermultimaterialskinshaderprocedural-etc/

Q8. if by repeating textures you mean tilable, yes, mostly with multimats for structures: https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/Multimaterial

Q9. Scale in Arma games is 1:1, from assets to time (1min iRL = 1min ingame). Base character model height is 1.81m. OB uses meters as the default unit system

Q10. Best way to do it is ingame. Before that, you can use an RT engine viewer called buldozer, which you can access from Object Builder.

Q11. See Q7. yes, AO texture map is present, it is called ambient shadow (suffix _as)

Q12. you create a "virtual bone" you weight the vertices, and animate the bone. There are other ways to do it of course.

Q13. it is possible. There should be no real challenge as long as the buoyance lod is set correctly, same for the physx lod

Q14. no idea what you mean. 

Q15. all mentioned = search lights etc. A note here, no other light source except sun and moon casts shadows (no deferred shading)

Q16. this can be animated in a number of ways. Depends on what you are looking to achieve. from decals of damage to wreaks and animated explosions (this being more difficult and needing some workarounds). there are some defined states yes

Q17. rounding hard edges is done via tangent space normals maps. There is no other shader gimmick to do that automatically, so HP to LP workflow for bakes is recommended

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Q1 the max is 22k tris 60 meter that is without the use of proxies LOD im not sure but there is information around the web on the wiki as well that states this also you can import models into a 3d software to see for yourself. 

Q2 Animations should be the same as with any game. its best to make them in a 3d program instead of using oxygen to make animations at least that is what i heard 

Q3 Blender is by far the best program, its a program that does everything you want and its open source, photoshop for textures is great pretty much the basics but importing things into the game is used with oxygen. 

Q5 mmm it really depends if you use content from a game in arma you can be sued if you are making a profit from it and gerneral this is very very very rare... all in all its a bad idea to port content from one game to another but there is nothing stopping you from recreating content. 

Q6 60 meter limit 22k poly, with no use of proxies. 

Q 8 I dont really know if repeating textures can be done with automatic means in say oxygen I think you would have to do it in a 3d program. 

Q9 yes any 3d program has a scale option... if it didn't delete it 

Q13 yes seaplanes are possible but ive heard that they can blow up if you are not gentle with them i think gnat made one for arma 3

Q17 I dont really understand this one I mean they do have AA which rounds out jag out edges but no the smoothness Is done with normal maps and geometry no fancy software jumbo Instagram filters. also im not 100% sure on everything ive said. 

Q1. false, there is no vertex limit since p3d version 70 was introduced. The limit is 2^32 now, instead of the former 2^15 vertices normals

Q2. false again

Q3. false once more

Q5. you obviously didn't get the question, he was asking about trademarked shit and copyrighted brands.

Q6. false as per Q1, not answering the question that is being asked

Q8. wrong answer once again, he is asking if textures are used, not how to make them

Q9. good grief, learn to read

Q17. another mix of terminology and personal assumptions on your part

 

In short,

if 

a. you have no reading skills

b. you have no idea what you are talking or you are confusing terminology

c. you are not 100% sure about what you are posting

then

REFRAIN from posting altogether, because you might actually confuse someone else out of your own ignorance.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To better explain question 6 and 14:

 

Q6: I should have explained myself better here. I wrote performance, but I really meant flight characteristics. So I was wondering if the shape and implied mass of an aircraft had any direct impact on how the vehicle model would perform in game, or if perhaps all the flight characteristics was simply 100% tweakable with code.

 

Q14: If you have a model of an open wooden boat for example, when placed on the Arma 3 ocean, the ocean will presumably clip through the model and become visible on the inside, and it would then look as if the boat had started to sink sort of. Is this necessary, or is there a way to hide the water inside the boat, and so as to create the illusion of displaced water.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To better explain question 6 and 14:

 

Q6: I should have explained myself better here. I wrote performance, but I really meant flight characteristics. So I was wondering if the shape and implied mass of an aircraft had any direct impact on how the vehicle model would perform in game, or if perhaps all the flight characteristics was simply 100% tweakable with code.

 

Q14: If you have a model of an open wooden boat for example, when placed on the Arma 3 ocean, the ocean will presumably clip through the model and become visible on the inside, and it would then look as if the boat had started to sink sort of. Is this necessary, or is there a way to hide the water inside the boat, and so as to create the illusion of displaced water.

Q6: flight characteristics for fixed winged is a bit different than rotor ones (which has 2 types of flight modes toggled by difficulty settings). For planes, it is a matter of config and distribution of the mesh mass in the geo lod. It is not 100% tweakable by config, it's a mix of both

 

Q14: you can hide out that water clipping through, i am pretty certain of it. I don't remember by heart how to do it atm, but it is 100% possible.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't expect any wonders from the fixed wing flightmodel btw. It's extremely basic and not realistic.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Q14: you can hide out that water clipping through, i am pretty certain of it. I don't remember by heart how to do it atm, but it is 100% possible.

 

It's done with a shader/alpha sorting trick.

 

You include a mesh plane over the bottom of the boat and assign a3\boat_f\data\antiwater_ca.paa which is a transparent texture that culls the water that would otherwise be visible in the bottom of the boat hull.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Q14: If you have a model of an open wooden boat for example, when placed on the Arma 3 ocean, the ocean will presumably clip through the model and become visible on the inside, and it would then look as if the boat had started to sink sort of. Is this necessary, or is there a way to hide the water inside the boat, and so as to create the illusion of displaced water.

As posted below, use an antiwater plane.

 

Go to your A3 Samples and look at the boat in there -- all the code and model is exposed and editable to you.  Get their samples working in your game and you'll find that making your own models work becomes much easier.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I played around in the 3D Eden editor, and had a look at the Pawnee helicopter, and I was a little surprised.

 

I believe I had set all the video options to maximum, so I expected this heli model to be presented with a more smooth polymesh, however the pawnee heli model seemed a little crude still.

 

Unless the Eden Editor shows models with a lower LOD by default (maybe the heli model is more refined than what it looked to me), I am now wondering at what poly count would be too much for say game play on the Chernarus map in a multi player game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I played around in the 3D Eden editor, and had a look at the Pawnee helicopter, and I was a little surprised.

 

I believe I had set all the video options to maximum, so I expected this heli model to be presented with a more smooth polymesh, however the pawnee heli model seemed a little crude still.

 

Unless the Eden Editor shows models with a lower LOD by default (maybe the heli model is more refined than what it looked to me), I am now wondering at what poly count would be too much for say game play on the Chernarus map in a multi player game.

 

Get the Samples_F heli working and you'll start to see how this all works.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What is "Samples_F" and what do I do with it?

 

Its part of the ArmA3 sample models BI released (and I think is now available on Steam). It has a simplified sample of each main model type (a weapon, a uniform/character, a boat, a car, a helicopter etc). More info can be found here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you, I'll try go have a look at that.

 

I can't help but wonder if the following "features" would be possible, if making a mod for including a helicopter. Feel free to chime in on the likelihood something like being possible (and hopefully somewhat trivial to implement):

 

30sbpt3.png

 

This illustration indicates:

• a moving (depressed) landing gear

• a moving (shaking) tail antenna (presumably, quite possible)

• a tilting main rotor shaft +- 5 degrees (if I understand it correctly)

• moving tail rudders (presumably, quite possible)

• a moving (depressed) tail striker

 

And then I'll forget about how the wire strike protection system would work. :)

 

Edit: Ah, ok. I now see the Arma 3 tools and Arma 3 Samples on Steam. Apparently they are "in my library", however I must also install them. I did not know that. 

 

If I could get started with this, with the hopes of finishing all the technical stuff, I think it could be fun to do the following things:

• create a civilian version of uh-1n: all black version, yellow or orange, white UN version

• create a military version of uh-1n: olive drab, camo, striped camo, sand colored

• optionally having 70mm LAU rocket pods

• optionally having 12.7mm (0.50 cal) machineguns

• optionally having 7.62mm LMG

• optionally having GAU 7.62mm minigun

• all heli variants having wire strike protection system modeled

• heli's with weapons would have to have the reflex sight mounted for the pilot in the right side pilot seat.

• having a gimbal search light could be fun I think, though I haven't seen any on the uh-1n's on photos so far

 

My personal motivation as far as modeling goes, would be to end up with something that simply looks good and also correct.

 

Searching at Armaholic, have me find only one uh-1n mod, and that dates back to 2009.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you, I'll try go have a look at that.

 

I can't help but wonder if the following "features" would be possible, if making a mod for including a helicopter. Feel free to chime in on the likelihood something like being possible (and hopefully somewhat trivial to implement):

 

30sbpt3.png

 

This illustration indicates:

1.  a moving (depressed) landing gear

2.  a moving (shaking) tail antenna (presumably, quite possible)

3.  a tilting main rotor shaft +- 5 degrees (if I understand it correctly)

4.  moving tail rudders (presumably, quite possible)

5.  a moving (depressed) tail striker

1. yes

2. yes

3. yes

4. yes

5. yes

all of these are animation driven

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought I had the Arma 3 tools installed by now, but I had to click the Arma 3 tools link on my desktop that Steam placed there, for some additional install. :|

 

I opened up the "Test_Heli_01.p3d" file and had a look at it with the 'Object builder for Arma 3' application.

 

The "List of LOD's" window, has a list of lots of mysterious nonintuitive stuff. I expected to see only LOD's objects, but instead there are other objects there as well. One of the things listed ("Hit-points") only seem to have points shown, presumably for some geometry.

 

The heli example seem to have only two geometry LOD objects, one with about 4000 "faces", and another with one tenth of that again.

 

The Object builder application seem to be user unfriendly, and not at all intuitive to use.

 

If the object builder software get so messed up I can't even see the viewport, I have to hide the menus to clear up the clutter.

 

Why is "view geometry" a required LOD?

Why is "hit-points" only a set of points, and what is the purpose of this LOD?

"Land contact" LOD has no geometry, only 8 points, what is the purpose of this LOD?

What is the "memory LOD"?

What is the "shadow volume" LOD for, and why is there two of them?

Why is there a "view-cargo" LOD, and what is it for?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is there a way to open regular Arma 3 objects/models in the object viewer? (non samples one)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought I had the Arma 3 tools installed by now, but I had to click the Arma 3 tools link on my desktop that Steam placed there, for some additional install. :|

 

I opened up the "Test_Heli_01.p3d" file and had a look at it with the 'Object builder for Arma 3' application.

 

The "List of LOD's" window, has a list of lots of mysterious nonintuitive stuff. I expected to see only LOD's objects, but instead there are other objects there as well. One of the things listed ("Hit-points") only seem to have points shown, presumably for some geometry.

 

The heli example seem to have only two geometry LOD objects, one with about 4000 "faces", and another with one tenth of that again.

 

The Object builder application seem to be user unfriendly, and not at all intuitive to use.

 

If the object builder software get so messed up I can't even see the viewport, I have to hide the menus to clear up the clutter.

i suggest you get acquainted with BIKI: https://community.bistudio.com/and the way OB works. Everything is covered in different details there.

 

Why is "view geometry" a required LOD?

Why is "hit-points" only a set of points, and what is the purpose of this LOD?

"Land contact" LOD has no geometry, only 8 points, what is the purpose of this LOD?

What is the "memory LOD"?

What is the "shadow volume" LOD for, and why is there two of them?

Why is there a "view-cargo" LOD, and what is it for?

1. view geometry - what AI sees

2. hitpoints - https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/Arma_3_Damage_Description

3. land contact - to define where the mesh makes contact with the terrain

4. memory points - it defines all the axis and memory points that will be needed to config the animations etc etc

5. SVL lod - it is used by the engine to create the shadow of the object. it works just like visual lods otherwise, hence why there are 2 of them

6. self explicit i would assume: what parts of the mesh you see when inside the cargo

 

again, everything is explained here: https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/LOD

 

Is there a way to open regular Arma 3 objects/models in the object viewer? (non samples one)

no

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What are normal maps used for, and what parts of a helicopter model would require creating normal maps?

 

Unless, there is some parallax mapping going (fairly reasonable) or, or some displacment (unlikely), I can only imagine that normal maps are used for bump mapping.

 

So, for a helicopter model, I can imagine that normal mapping could be useful for mainly protruding rivets, panel lines, fake grill and vent openings and imitation of wrinkled fabrics. With parallax mapping I imagine one could create some detailed bump mapping that also create the illusion of occluding with itself.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What are normal maps used for, and what parts of a helicopter model would require creating normal maps?

 

Unless, there is some parallax mapping going (fairly reasonable) or, or some displacment (unlikely), I can only imagine that normal maps are used for bump mapping.

 

So, for a helicopter model, I can imagine that normal mapping could be useful for mainly protruding rivets, panel lines, fake grill and vent openings and imitation of wrinkled fabrics. With parallax mapping I imagine one could create some detailed bump mapping that also create the illusion of occluding with itself.

The parts are up to you. It uses tangent based normal maps just like any other RT engine out there. parallax mapping is available only for the terrain shaders. There is no shaders or maps for displacement.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok, it seems now that creating assets for  Arma3 isn't as difficult as I thought.

 

I found this informative tutorial for creating a simple building, exporting it as .obj and eventually having it show up in Arma 3:

(images must be viewed in reversed order)

https://www.flickr.com/photos/94653768@N02/sets/72157633164874638/ 

 

 

Assuming that image texture files are limited to being 4096 x 4096 px large: Could you have a 4k image texture for a helicopter, AND, a 2048 x 2048, or, 1024 x 1024 px texture map for additional parts (weapons) to that helicopter?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Assuming that image texture files are limited to being 4096 x 4096 px large: Could you have a 4k image texture for a helicopter, AND, a 2048 x 2048, or, 1024 x 1024 px texture map for additional parts (weapons) to that helicopter?

You could, but for performance (and as ArmA's mipmapping of textures would cause a 4K texture to blur unless texture detail was set to Very high) you'd be better off with several smaller resolution textures.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You could, but for performance (and as ArmA's mipmapping of textures would cause a 4K texture to blur unless texture detail was set to Very high) you'd be better off with several smaller resolution textures.

Are you suggesting that it would be ok to have say four 1024 x 1024 textures for a helicopter model, instead of one 4K texture? 

 

Edit: Oops, I added up things wrong here. :o Four 2K textures would cover the same area as one 4K, my bad.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lets just say for one helicopter I wouldn't personally use anything bigger than 2048x2048 (of which a 4096x4096 is four of, not four 1024x1024s).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Are you suggesting that it would be ok to have say four 1024 x 1024 textures for a helicopter model, instead of one 4K texture? 

4k textures get mipmapped quite quickly. It is recommended that everyone sticks to 2k tex max, even if it means more textures per mesh (so an increase section count)...even on very high resolution, these textures are the first to be mip mapped to lower res if the engine considers there are too many draw calls.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Sign in to follow this  

×