Tanoa discussion (Dev-Branch)

[fn_Quiksilver 1636]

For the completeness of the terrain I think having doors look like doors is good.

 

For gameplay consideration its bad, as the player experiences moment of disappointment when there is no option to open it.

 

Either way I don't care, if I want MOUT I pick different terrain. I pick Tanoa for jungle :)

 

Personally I think an opportunity was missed here.

 

Fiji gets slammed by cyclones (hurricanes) frequently, and this is a common sight in places about to be hit by hurricane:

 

 

 

 

Fiji itself:

 

 

[tinter 186]

I think the gameplay considerations are worth noting. Approaching a door that is locked is not only disappointing, but more noteworthy, it's confusing and it's not obvious which ways you can or cannot go through. The buildings should be designed so that they make sense even if they're only partly enterable.

Also, I've mentioned this a few times, but I'm worried about it and have not heard from BIS, I hope they will make the rooftops compatible with AI, they cannot maneuver up there at the moment and it's a shame. The rooftop is more interesting for combat than the interiors., but they really need to be usable by the AI. I hope BIS will work on this.

[NoPOW 59]

Fiji gets slammed by cyclones (hurricanes) frequently, and this is a common sight in places about to be hit by hurricane

 

Would have been a plausible excuse for not every building being enter-able...

Remember my post a from a few days ago? https://forums.bistudio.com/topic/191389-tanoa-discussion-dev-branch/?p=3040497

 

Having buildings hurricane protected would ground the island; you'd immediately get the sensation that - though there would be no tropical storm at that moment - there is more than you (consciously) perceive... 

 

[tpw 2315]

BIS has always had a certain visual shorthand for buildings: if you can see into a building, you can go into a building. Tanoa is the same. If the door you are approaching has windows you can't see through, then it's locked and unenterable.

[NoPOW 59]

BIS has always had a certain visual shorthand for buildings: if you can see into a building, you can go into a building. Tanoa is the same. If the door you are approaching has windows you can't see through, then it's locked and unenterable.

Not true. There are buildings on Tanoa that are enter-able, but have rooms inside that are not; separated by doors that give no clue whatsoever that these would be closed...

[bad benson 1733]

+1 on boarded up doors. sure we carry rifles and explosives and could enter at will in most cases but it's more about a logical visual indication. althoguh i still think that one hut with one room and a fake room is dumb. should've been one big room. i can't really see how that saved any performance at all.

[tpw 2315]

Not true. There are buildings on Tanoa that are enter-able, but have rooms inside that are not; separated by doors that give no clue whatsoever that these would be closed...

True. The building itself is enterable if you can see through the windows near the entrance door. That doesn't mean that every room in the building is enterable. 

[R3vo 2654]

["Paste",["Tanoa",[12894.8,7304.12,4.00329],50.5325,0.7,[-44.7619,0],0,0,722.607,0,0,1,0,1]] call bis_fnc_camera;  //Road is not properly aligned

["Paste",["Tanoa",[12917.5,7496.41,4.65156],199.782,0.7,[-51.9048,0],0,0,722.607,0,0,1,0,1]] call bis_fnc_camera; //Water tank needs to be turned 180°

["Paste",["Tanoa",[11247.7,5281.06,3.52584],177.074,0.7,[-42.3809,0],0,0,722.607,0,1,1,0,1]] call bis_fnc_camera; //Wooden boxes clip into the metal beam

["Paste",["Tanoa",[11150.3,5203.65,5.5074],288.126,0.7,[-35.4762,0],0,0,722.607,0,1,1,0,1]] call bis_fnc_camera;//Water tank clips into house

["Paste",["Tanoa",[11702.1,2997.57,12.7375],306.473,0.7,[-78.3334,0],0,0,722.607,0,1,1,0,1]] call bis_fnc_camera; //I assume the road marking is supposed to be centered

["Paste",["Tanoa",[11765,2883.83,2.01403],296.071,0.7,[-10.7143,0],0,0,732.617,0,0,1,0,1]] call bis_fnc_camera;//The texture of the door looks weird

["Paste",["Tanoa",[11795.1,2743.94,7.51777],154.074,0.7,[-37.1428,0],0,0,732.617,0,0,1,0,1]] call bis_fnc_camera;//Z-fighting

["Paste",["Tanoa",[11833.3,2735.52,2.11525],289.064,0.7,[-22.8571,0],0,0,732.617,0,0,1,0,1]] call bis_fnc_camera;//Wooden boxes clip into the pier, use smaller ones instead to preserve enough space for the player to move past them

["Paste",["Tanoa",[11889.4,2707.04,2.51525],49.0596,0.7,[-21.9047,0],0,0,732.617,0,0,1,0,1]] call bis_fnc_camera;//Wooden boxes are flying over the water

[tinter 186]

BIS has always had a certain visual shorthand for buildings: if you can see into a building, you can go into a building. Tanoa is the same. If the door you are approaching has windows you can't see through, then it's locked and unenterable.

 

This is not true though.

https://vgy.me/exhZJc.png

There's three doors here, but only the one that leads outside is enterable. Of course it has some logic to it, in that no rooms are enterable, but it should feel natural. There's no clear indication that these doors are any different.

 

For more examples, here's another pairs of doors that look alike but differ in functionality.

https://vgy.me/8mILE7.png

And these two.

https://vgy.me/IHa6AA.png

There's also the doors on the wall here.

https://vgy.me/kAEF8k.png

They actually removed the door handle on the door that can't be opened, but it's not really a clear indication as it's not consistent with all other doors.

Again, I'm personally fine with buildings not being fully enterable, but I just want it to feel natural. As someone has said it's a problem when you walk to a door and the only indication it can't be opened is on the other side of the wall you're standing in front of. You're gonna waste time thinking the action menu is acting up.

Bottom line, you should know, from any side, whether or not the door you're trying to open can actually be opened, without having to try to open it or look at the windows nearby, which aren't even always a clear indication, mostly when lacking windows.

[NoPOW 59]

True. The building itself is enterable if you can see through the windows near the entrance door. That doesn't mean that every room in the building is enterable. 

You can debate semantics here, fact remains that there is no way to judge from the outside what lies beyond... 

[St. Jimmy 272]

This is not true though.

https://vgy.me/exhZJc.png

There's three doors here, but only the one that leads outside is enterable. Of course it has some logic to it, in that no rooms are enterable, but it should feel natural. There's no clear indication that these doors are any different.

Yeah that's the reason why I'd like to see door handles/knobs removed from the doors that can't be opened.

[tinter 186]

Not to mention, if you're not knowledgeable about the map beforehand then it will confuse even more.

[CaptainObvious 95]

I can't tell just by looking at a door if it's locked or not in real life either, in my humble opinion you fellas are over analyzing this a bit.  :unsure:

[road runner 4344]

Good place to start looking at the old Europe 1 camo reskins, for Local Air/Ground assets ;) 

 

[NoPOW 59]

I can't tell just by looking at a door if it's locked or not in real life either, in my humble opinion you fellas are over analyzing this a bit.  :unsure:

No, we are not: you'd be trapped inside a building while having the means to breach a door in seconds...

 

So, if you're not allowed to breach doors (which is fine by me), than there should be a mechanism compensating for that.

[tinter 186]

I can't tell just by looking at a door if it's locked or not in real life either, in my humble opinion you fellas are over analyzing this a bit.  :unsure:

 

Arma isn't real life. In real life you can pull down on the handle and check it. In Arma, all you can do is open the action menu and wave your gun around to see if you can get the action and even then you're not entirely sure. It takes you out of the game.

Not to mention, doors in real life are locked because they don't want people inside, while in arma they're locked because there is nothing behind it. In real life you might want to get inside anyway, while in Arma they should be disregarded by the player completely and you shouldn't have to fiddle with the action menu. They should either change the appearance, or make an action which makes a rattle sound like a real door would.

[St. Jimmy 272]

I can't tell just by looking at a door if it's locked or not in real life either, in my humble opinion you fellas are over analyzing this a bit.  :unsure:

There's no over analyzing about asking for better visual what door is real and what door is just a wall painted as a door that blocks access inside emptiness.

 

You can tell if there's emptiness inside a door in real life, because that kind of emptiness doesn't exists...

 

Also don't make me mention more about the action menu that can't tell what door you're looking at...

[Alwarren 2767]

They should either change the appearance, or make an action which makes a rattle sound like a real door would.

I'd rather see development resources wasted on something more important than rattle sounds... you know, like, everything else.

[Guest]

It's really sad that most of the buildings are closed.

I expected real guerrila fights in those high buildings.

[NoPOW 59]

I'd rather see development resources wasted on something more important than rattle sounds... you know, like, everything else.

Resources were wasted on modelling fake doors and rooms already... ;)

[Alwarren 2767]

Resources were wasted on modelling fake doors and rooms already... ;)

 

er.. huh?

 

What's the deal with these doors? They don't open either way.

If you ask me what should be done, then let's stay at CQB and have them implement weapon collision. If your line of fire intersects with an obstacle while firing from vehicle, your character quickly lifts the weapon out of the way. This should be done in CQB as well. Then, and only then, can we start to bitch about lack of interiors, because with such a modification CQB becomes significant.

 

Right now, these doors lead nowhere, whether they rattle or not is completely irrelevant and doesn't change the outcome. Proper Weapon collision OTOH would REALLY add something.

[Alex150201 894]

You have 40-60 FPS on an empty map or during battle involving AI's? 

You should always calculate your FPS with AI enabled on the island. 

That score includes AI, on an empty map I have 50-70

[NoPOW 59]

er.. huh?

 

What's the deal with these doors? They don't open either way.

If you ask me what should be done, then let's stay at CQB and have them implement weapon collision. If your line of fire intersects with an obstacle while firing from vehicle, your character quickly lifts the weapon out of the way. This should be done in CQB as well. Then, and only then, can we start to bitch about lack of interiors, because with such a modification CQB becomes significant.

 

Right now, these doors lead nowhere, whether they rattle or not is completely irrelevant and doesn't change the outcome. Proper Weapon collision OTOH would REALLY add something.

A valid point, but that's not what this is about.

If you model a door, people will assume there is a room behind it (that's what that door communicates); a door is not only a means to enter a room it also steers behavior.

My solution? Get rid of those doors altogether... Don't like big empty walls? Put some cupboard in front of it.

[jumpinghubert 49]

My solution? Get rid of those doors altogether... Don't like big empty walls? Put some cupboard in front of it.

My solution is to learn what kind of doors are locked. But lets talk about cupboards and after it lets talk about talking and make a poll about it.

[NoPOW 59]

My solution is to learn what kind of doors are locked.

Good luck with that...