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LOD Discussion

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pretty sure that they are. It also depends on the amount of objects in the scene in total, and on the amount of the same object in the scene. It's not a static range at which it switches, so it's hard to predict.

 

https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/LOD#.3Cresolution.3E

 

This unpredictable effect what we see. I think it shouldn't change this frequently for all object. Especially for static non moving objects like tree, buildings.

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I'm no technical expert and therefore can't  speculate with you, but I'd like to make "the voice" a bit louder by saying that the aggressive lod switching currently really prevents me from fully enjoying the game. You're almost forced to look at the tall grass that pops up two meters in front of you - it's not jsut incredibly ugly, but also distracting.

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sorry. i gotta admit i didn't read the whole thread but arma could really benefit from alpha/opacity blending instead of insta switching lods. i've seen it done in other engines with distant objects slowly fading in instead of instantly appearing but not sure, if that could work with lods. although i think i saw it happen, just not 100% sure, if it was done like that. might have been the mentioned tesselation.

 

the idea would be having the next lod already present a little early and then fade it in whiel the current one fades out.

 

changing of lods can't be disabled so i think it's more about visual tricks to make it less jarring.

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Its one of those funny things because Object Quality influences LOD pop in of all things including grass, but so too does terrain quality. 
I still think that they should separate terrain and objects entirerly, similar to what they did with ambient occlusion and DOF being their own options as opposed to being piled into the post processing altogether.  

The absolute most versatile would be-

POM-On/Off (that is the parrallax aka bumpyness on the ground textures)
Object Quality- houses n tires n cars n sooch
Vegetation Quality-  Tree's, having this separate allows more versatility, say you are fine with nearby props as they are but they aren't at the highest, and due to that the trees keep popping in and out...this would reduce that.
Terrain-   Is the ground more flat or more varried?
Grass-  Is there grass and how much.

Right now terrain consists of ground shape, plus grass, plus grass density,  but so too does object detail, there is a LOT of overlap going on, and if you want one thing then you have to take the brunt of everything.

This could also be due to the method BI uses for LOD's as seen in their sample models, everything goes down by half which is fine in most cases but for something with particular lighting such as vegetation, it can be more obvious.

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Joining the club : I too am having serious LOD flickering on DEV.

Switching from Medium to High for the objects quality would usually fix it (at the cost of a few frames/s), but now I experience it everywhere, no matter my settings.

 

It's come to a point where I want to avoid towns & villages. :(

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Something I noticed just recently is that slow rotations cause noticable lod switching, while quick twitches produce way less switching, sometimes none at all.

I just tried this in an altis forest: look to one direction, then another about 90 degrees to either side. Keeping switching between the two and notice the lod switching. Now instead make really quick twitches between the same two directions. Any difference?

For me, the quick twitch doesn't produce any lod switching at all.. how come?

 

Anyone else care trying?

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hm. after looking at it closely it looks like it's already blending in a weird way. almost liek a desolve shader. but my settings aren't that high so hard to tell.

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sorry. i gotta admit i didn't read the whole thread but arma could really benefit from alpha/opacity blending instead of insta switching lods.

Except that means you will have to display 2 LOD's at once and also calculate opacity (which is quirky in arma - especially for objects with opacity on it's own this could be very tricky.)

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I was actually expecting Lod issues with the jungle environment.. I guess it's 100 times more difficult to create a terrain with jungle than with more desert look.

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I was actually expecting Lod issues with the jungle environment.. I guess it's 100 times more difficult to create a terrain with jungle than with more desert look.

Well with jungle you have alot more objects. So switching earlier is kinda necessary actually.  Issue is with areas where you have more vision range. Ideally this should be handled by the switching algorithm - but let's be real, you will never get the algorithm to properly handle every special situation.

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hm. after looking at it closely it looks like it's already blending in a weird way. almost liek a desolve shader. but my settings aren't that high so hard to tell.

 

 

Yep, sometimes it sort of blends into a new LOD, but it seems the blending, once it's triggered, takes less than a second to complete and it doesn't matter if the player is moving towards/away from said object, or moving at all for that matter, the blend still happens.

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Except that means you will have to display 2 LOD's at once and also calculate opacity (which is quirky in arma - especially for objects with opacity on it's own this could be very tricky.)

 

yea ofc but only briefly and also lods usually use the same texture and stuff. by far no expert on this but isn't that far from having two different objects but more like altering geometry mostly?

but yea of course i agree it's more effort with some type of impact. that's what i meant by this issue mostly being about trying to make a necessity (lod switching) more visually appealing. opacity rendering is definately weird sometimes. from my brief close look it looks similar to the shader that is used for plant poly planes where it desolves based in how steep the viewing angle is.

 

might be that what you describe is already happening anyways.

 

i'm wondering now how it would look, if they did what CaptainObvious hinted at. as in maybe making the blend that seems to be there already in some form a little longer with more overlap time. maybe even makign a graphics option.

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Is that a soldier moving over there?

 

No, wait - it's just a shitty rock turning into a better rock then turning shitty again.

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I've uploaded a few videos of different occasions where I have encountered more distracting LOD changes.

Stratis - 
Stratis -
Stratis -
Stratis -
Stratis -
Stratis -
Stratis -
Chenarus -
 

Previous to Arma 3 1.60x (visual update)... the LOD changes were not as noticeable... and I could deal with the 'rocks' LOD changes... but now, it seems to be every damn object doing it. Very distracting, very annoying.

 

*runs across terrain*... "I just saw movement ahead"... *stops behind a rock/bush*... "nevermind, it was just glitchy LOD changes". <- I encounter this so much whilst in-game now (especially in A3Wasteland).

 

All these new LOD's need to be reverted back to how they were, or fixed... and fixed asap.

 

-soul.

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pretty sure that they are. It also depends on the amount of objects in the scene in total, and on the amount of the same object in the scene. It's not a static range at which it switches, so it's hard to predict.

 

https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/LOD#.3Cresolution.3E

Can't help thinking that all these various LODs are necessary due to older hardware. I mean, on a 3 GB Ram video card, it could be possible to only use the max resolution LOD regardless of distance to object ? If so, a setting could be introduced for disabling LOD switching and only run with one and the same LOD level

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+1 in finding the aggressive LOD switching a painful distraction. i'd gladly pay my debts in form of 10fps to bring back the former system in which only the rocks were a pita (on ultra).

even worse, LODs dont seem to take into account my speed/direction, so flickering even appears when coming closer to the object in a straight line (LOD switches back and forth)

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Besides the LOD setback I wonder if anyone else experience noticeable more stuttering post 1.60 (HDD is defragged) also on the old Altis/Stratis?

 

/KC
 

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We are however investigating the handling of model Levels Of Detail. We too observe LODs switching too aggressively, and we are pursuing improvements both in our data and the engine. It should be said that LOD switching will never be completely invisible, simply due to the nature of this method of achieving better performance.

 

 

From today's SITREP. Thanks for looking into it, I am sure you can improve the current situation.

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Playing on Tanoa today, I noticed that, if standing between two palm trees and panning between them, if panning slowly then there would be something funny with the LOD's, as if morphing or something, however if panning the camera *quickly* from one palm tree to the other, there is NO such weird morphing going on.

 

I think BIS did something wrong, the same way they did it wrong with the procedural clouds, which changed and started to reshape weirdly when panning the camera, as if the clouds altered shape when the camera was moved.

 

I think the switching of LOD's on rocks is the most annoying, so any blending tech should be used on rocks at least. :)

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I'm not sure this is LOD exactly, probably texture related.

 

But when destroying vehicles there is always one completely white texture that flashes up.

 

It did happen before APEX but only on the Quad now it seems most if not all APEX vehicles are doing this.

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Relax people.

As some may be aware, the 2 things that make gpu work beyond sane values in arma 3 are the foliage and particles.

For obvious reasons this had to be toned down due to Tanoa architecture.

Unless you want to see your gpu burning, enjoy it as it is.

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Relax people.

As some may be aware, the 2 things that make gpu work beyond sane values in arma 3 are the foliage and particles.

For obvious reasons this had to be toned down due to Tanoa architecture.

Unless you want to see your gpu burning, enjoy it as it is.

Enjoy it as it is?... nope. Since the 'visual update', the LOD issue has worsened, which whilst in-game when you move around (and move your camera around) it is VERY distracting (and annoying).

I never noticed 'this many visual glitches' previous to the 'visual update'... the most stand out LOD changes previously were of rock formations (I think everyone can agree on that)... and now? It seems that 'just-about-everything glitches'.

This is a big step backwards in the way of a 'visual update', as more things are 'out-of-place' than previous.

If you take a look at my previous posts in this thread, you will see quite a few example screen-shots and videos to 'showcase' the LOD issues I am having (I can't speak for everyone).

The game isn't worth playing when you have such a dramatic down-grade in quality when updates are suppose to enhance the game play (visuals)... we all may as well go back to ArmA 2. Sure the new Tanoa map and assets are a great addition to ArmA 3 (which we the end user paid for)... but at what 'visual' cost? Stratis and Altis maps lose out big-time, all the third-party maps/addons/etc lose out, and it causes 'the third party developers' and 'the-end-users' to speak up, not to bring hate, but to vent our concerns (constructively) when drastic changes seem to degrade our experience rather than enhance it.

-soul

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Relax people.
As some may be aware, the 2 things that make gpu work beyond sane values in arma 3 are the foliage and particles.
For obvious reasons this had to be toned down due to Tanoa architecture.
Unless you want to see your gpu burning, enjoy it as it is.

 

Afaik the devs have said something along the lines, that they have simply replaced the small foliage with larger ones, and voila they got Tanoa, with no more foliage than usual.

I don't believe for a second that my gpu has an issue with rendering geometry, and certainly not foliage. I'd like to see a dev post about that particular issue.

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Relax people.
As some may be aware, the 2 things that make gpu work beyond sane values in arma 3 are the foliage and particles.
For obvious reasons this had to be toned down due to Tanoa architecture.
Unless you want to see your gpu burning, enjoy it as it is.

 

Honestly, unless you are running a 20 year old GPU, its not going to be 'burning' from arma at max settings. My GTX980ti barely hits 50% with all settings on ultra. Even my old GTX760 could handle ultra settings without much hassle. CPU on the other hand is a different story. Fact is, as a paying end user, you should not be expected to 'enjoy it as it is', that is a ridiculous comment.

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