S.T.A.L.K.E.R.: Oblivion Lost

[Baron Hurlothrumbo IIX 0]

Well theres nothing to prove that for certain either way. But if the claims are true, i think they still would have limited it....if you had a 100km*100km area on Farcry, it would be much more difficult to keep the player on objective and thus the storyline working

Just my 2 cents, niether of us will know until someone tries to make something much larger with an SDK for farcry.

If it were possible, the levels wouldn't need loading every 3 minutes, and the LEVELS WOULD BE LARGER.

Its pretty simple.

Maybe you've never heard of a game called Operation Flashpoint? Had some pretty mig islands and no troubles keeping people on objective?

[The Frenchman 0]

A few months ago, Foxtrot and I were trying to find out what those pudgy things are. I swear we went through every barnyard animal. Anyone here know what they might have been?

[Pathy 0]

Well theres nothing to prove that for certain either way. But if the claims are true, i think they still would have limited it....if you had a 100km*100km area on Farcry, it would be much more difficult to keep the player on objective and thus the storyline working

Just my 2 cents, niether of us will know until someone tries to make something much larger with an SDK for farcry.

If it were possible, the levels wouldn't need loading every 3 minutes, and the LEVELS WOULD BE LARGER.

Its pretty simple.

Maybe you've never heard of a game called Operation Flashpoint?  Had some pretty mig islands and no troubles keeping people on objective?

Ahh the usual thing ive come to expect from you Baron...someone says something that differs from your opinion and you reply by putting your earlier points forward, only in ruder and much more condecending language......

The levels would not necessarily be larger....if you made a larger level in Farcry the player would be more likely to wander off the objective...

OFP is a different game where it is less essential to direct the player like that.....farcry....well look at it this way, what would be the point in directing the player through this facility and that facility if the player could just walk across the whole bloody island......

[Baron Hurlothrumbo IIX 0]

just ignore the point totally then.

I'll state it again:

Even if the levels have to be totally linear, they are still very small. They require loading after moving a little.

The levels are not anywhere near the size of the islands in OFP, let alone 4,000,000 square KM.

[Messiah 2]

Ahh the usual thing ive come to expect from you Baron...someone says something that differs from your opinion and you reply by putting your earlier points forward, only in ruder and much more condecending language......

something i've also come to expect from these forums... why, oh why people can't accept there are different opinions on the same subject...

anyways...

Gordy, don't mean to be rude, but you quote about the folding stock being on the wrong side... kinda made me chuckle a little - i know you're correct, but doesn't it seem a little nitpicking to you? its not a military sim, so accuracy in weapons don't have to be 100%. God knows what you thought of quake weapons (hehehe)

im buying it because of the storyline, not because of the weapons, not because you don't die in one shot etc - its a different game, so has different outlooks on how the game should work... if i were to compare everygame i own to OFP, i'd find many faults, but whats the point... they are all fun games in their own right.

it looks awesome, the videos are great and the idea is sound (so, im not a big fan on mutated monsters etc) but the idea of roaming around a recreated chenobyl and ghost town level just makes me want this game, its a theatre not tried yet, and it will be interesting to see how they do it.

[Pathy 0]

I'm not ignoring what your saying: "The engine cant possibly handle larger areas because otherwise the areas WOULD be larger."

However, you seem to refuse to consider that maybe they made the areas as small as they are in the interests of gameplay.....yes its all fine and good to make an island the size of an OFP island, but, it probably allows MUCH more flexability to do it in small sections.....this way the players progress can be controlled much much more; important where storyline is prominent....also, consider the AI....even OFP has an AI limit....they could have made massive maps and then not been able to provide all the enemies the map required....it still means massive maps are possible, but not practical for missions......you pretty much called me a retard last time i suggested this, because obviously, my opinion doesnt match yours, and thus i am beneath you.....

And as i said, neither of us can prove it either way until an SDK comes out and someone tries to make a larger area anyway.

[Baron Hurlothrumbo IIX 0]

So your point is

'The engine probably cant do larger areas because the AI wouldn't work, and they consider all their players to be morons.'

Even the small areas already in the game are not even rendered decently - it doesn't render objects (enemies etc) that are more than about 100m away unless you zoom in. It cannot cope with large open areas, it cannot cope with large islands not divided into tiny sections of corridor.

PS

Gameplay reasons for having a loading screen? Yeah, real plausible. Nothing like interupting the action for a great gaming experience. Think about it.

There are loading screens because there have to be - because the Far Cry engine can't handle larger areas/ areas that are too different - not for 'gameplay reasons.'

[-ZG-BUZZARD 0]

IMHO Loading times depend on system specs; with advanced computing power they disappear as to being an issue...

As for your argument considering that it isn't well possible to have larger maps just because the game itself does not have larger maps, I hardly know what to say... just look at Operation Flashpoint... the islands of the game itself aren't too large, larger islands were then made... Tonal and PMC_Euro spring to mind... so your argument stating "if it isn't in the original game, it can't be done" is thoroughly invalid... I believe that's the best lesson learned from OFP itself! Ever since mods existed, the limit has been pushed over the edge far beyond what existed in the beguinning... If technically the game engines allow such large areas to be built, then it's just a matter of someone putting it into practice (with the adequate will, skill & resources).

[Baron Hurlothrumbo IIX 0]

The islands created for OFP came much later than the original; once computing power had caught up and was able to push the boundaries a little. They are still 'only' around 4 times the size - 4 times larger than a Far Cry level would only be about 15 x 15 Km MAX.

IMHO loading times are still loading times, and if you have to load several times when walking across an area IT IS NOT ONE AREA.

[Guest]

So your point is

'The engine probably cant do larger areas because the AI wouldn't work, and they consider all their players to be morons.'  

This is one of the things that to me is really exciting about STALKER. It has a kind of LOD (Level of Detail) system for AI. Close up to the player the AI is making a lot of decisions....scratching itself, fighting, hiding, talking etc etc. But when it is out of view (STALKER from the little bits I've seen seems to have around 500m view distance) the AI processes "scale down" and aren't as detailed. It will still move to places, but not do things which are irrelevent because they won't be seen. All this is important because it reduces CPU drain, but lets important elements of the story continue......the NPCs in STALKER are off doing things all the time in STALKER.

Quite a nice advancement, and one I look forward to playing with.

[Pathy 0]

So your point is

'The engine probably cant do larger areas because the AI wouldn't work, and they consider all their players to be morons.'  

Even the small areas already in the game are not even rendered decently - it doesn't render objects (enemies etc) that are more than about 100m away unless you zoom in.  It cannot cope with large open areas, it cannot cope with large islands not divided into tiny sections of corridor.

PS

Gameplay reasons for having a loading screen?  Yeah, real plausible.  Nothing like interupting the action for a great gaming experience.  Think about it.

There are loading screens because there have to be - because the Far Cry engine can't handle larger areas/ areas that are too different - not for 'gameplay reasons.'

No my point is, the engine probably CAN do larger areas, but they didnt do it in the original game because there are gameplay issues attached to it.

Also remember devs. want to pitch the game to the widest possible audience....thus the lowest system specs they can. It doesnt mean it CANT be done.....but AS I SAID, at least TRY to consider that the engine CAN handle it, but they didnt go for larger areas for the reasons i have already stated.

Now if you have a response to that that is helpfull and isnt rude i'd like to hear it....otherwise, i'm not interested in your narrowmindeed denial that there cant possibly be other possibilities, because they dont match your own opinion.

In simple terms. I disagree when you say that they didnt do larger maps ONLY because the engine cant handle it. I do not say that i am certain of this.....that is why i said, there is only one way to prove it either way, that will be when an SDK is released....however, i think that even if they COULD have made larger maps they probably wouldnt have, due to all the aforementioned reasons. I'm just being slightly more open minded than flatly denying any possibility, other than engine limitations, behind the size of the maps.

[Baron Hurlothrumbo IIX 0]

Look, I'm sure the engine can do marginally larger maps than the ones in the original game. What I'm also sure of is that the figure [ZG]Buzzard quoted is utter crap. 4,000,000 SQUARE KILOMETRES.

4,000,000 SQUARE KILOMETRES.

Think about that for a second before whining that maybe the engine can handle more than the 2 or 3 square kilometres in the average level.

99% of games can handle areas a bit larger than the ones they ship with.... .but not that order of magnitude larger. Its absolute crap.

Now at least consider that, before trying to pick arguments with me. Still waiting for a gameplay reason to have loading in the middle of a firefight. Still waiting for a gameplay reason to have interruptions in gameplay, btw. Just saying 'the reasons already stated' when you haven't actually given any decent reasons is a bit stupid, IMO.

[Pathy 0]

Not as stupid as someone who reads "reasons ALREADY STATED", doesnt know them, yet has been arguing against them.....or can't be arsed to go back and look what they are.

But for your sake i will say again:

-AI counts.

-lowering system specs needed.

-keeping the player on objective and aiding the storyline.

-also, think about scripting for all possibilities on a large map...quite a job, if there is nothing stopping you skipping an objective building and you end up at a totally different location (ie, skipping a stage in the story)...small maps stop this.

I am also sure the engine cant do a map that large, i have considered what you are saying, but you seem to flatly deny anything that doesnt agree with what YOU say. And i dont just mean in this thread. Obviously if the rest of the forum population dont agree with what you say, then we are scum and should be treated as such, because you are far superior to us, right?

[Gordy 0]

Calm down people.

We have to wait till release to see this. No Demo is scheduled until after the full game release. Now you can only speculate and throw crap at each other for a game which might end up like Soldner. Hope not.

[Baron Hurlothrumbo IIX 0]

Not as stupid as someone who reads "reasons ALREADY STATED", doesnt know them, yet has been arguing against them.....or can't be arsed to go back and look what they are.

But for your sake i will say again:

-AI counts.

-lowering system specs needed.

-keeping the player on objective and aiding the storyline.

-also, think about scripting for all possibilities on a large map...quite a job, if there is nothing stopping you skipping an objective building and you end up at a totally different location (ie, skipping a stage in the story)...small maps stop this.

Maybe you missed the part where I said 'Decent reasons.. none of these are.

AI 'counts' whatever that means? - AI - if the engine can't do AI AND have a large area, guess what? it can't handle the large area

Lowering system specs- guess what? If the engine can't handle a large area with the recommended system it can't handle the large area

Keeping the player on objective - NOTHING TO DO WITH THE SIZE OF THE AREA. It could be a huge area but still a series of linear corridors.

Scripting in a large area- Guess what? If the engine can't handle scripting in a large area IT CAN'T HANDLE A LARGE AREA

This is SO simple I can't see why you are greeting about it.

Quote[/b] ]

I am also sure the engine cant do a map that large, i have considered what you are saying,

THEN STOP ARGUING

Quote[/b] ]

but you seem to flatly deny anything that doesnt agree with what YOU say.

What do you think your rejoinders to me are? Look in the mirror, hypocrite.

Quote[/b] ]

And i dont just mean in this thread. Obviously if the rest of the forum population dont agree with what you say, then we are scum and should be treated as such, because you are far superior to us, right?

No. Wrong. If you're wrong, just accept it instead of trying to insult me. In this case, I am right, and you are wrong. That is all there is to it; accept that.

Gordy-

The arguement is about far cry, not Stalker, which looks to be quite good. Specifically, Pathy wants to argue with me about whether or not Far Cry can have maps 4,000,000 square Kilometres. He admits they can't but seems to like argueing anyway.

[Pathy 0]

If you cant be bothered to actually read what i post i cant be bothered to argue with you. Whatever i say you are going to give me a mouthfull back anyway, just like usual. I've never actually seen you make a NICE comment on this forum, you just belittle people. Probably because you are god and if we disagree with you then we are all subhuman.

[Gadger 0]

It is possible to create 4,000,000 square kilometere maps in Far Cry, however running maps this size is a totally different matter. Realisticly the biggest map that could be created with no crashes is 128x128 km or 16,384 squared kilometers, of course as computer hardware improves so will the island sizes.

[Baron Hurlothrumbo IIX 0]

It is possible to create 4,000,000 square kilometere maps in Far Cry, however running maps this size is a totally different matter. Realisticly the biggest map that could be created with no crashes is 128x128 km or 16,384 squared kilometers, of course as computer hardware improves so will the island sizes.

Thats a fair point, although of course, if the map won't load/ play, then, of course, it isn't really counted.

Good to see someone making a point without whining and greeting.

[Monkey Lib Front 10]

It is possible to create 4,000,000 square kilometere maps in Far Cry, however running maps this size is a totally different matter. Realisticly the biggest map that could be created with no crashes is 128x128 km or 16,384 squared kilometers, of course as computer hardware improves so will the island sizes.

Thats a fair point, although of course, if the map won't load/ play, then, of course, it isn't really counted.

Good to see someone making a point without whining and greeting.

what you mean like yourself? This thread is about STALKER, not you two whinin about Farcry and what it can and cannot do.

[Pathy 0]

It is possible to create 4,000,000 square kilometere maps in Far Cry, however running maps this size is a totally different matter. Realisticly the biggest map that could be created with no crashes is 128x128 km or 16,384 squared kilometers, of course as computer hardware improves so will the island sizes.

Thats a fair point, although of course, if the map won't load/ play, then, of course, it isn't really counted.

Good to see someone making a point without whining and greeting.

Excuse me, i wasnt whining, i made my point ("perhaps there could be other reasons behind the maps size?") and you flamed me ("no pathy, you retard, if they could have made it bigger they would have, god, its so simple, your so stupid, sorry, you disagree with me, therefore your nothing better than a turd on my shoe"

As understanding as your usual self, Baron.

[Baron Hurlothrumbo IIX 0]

Excuse me, i wasnt whining, i made my point ("perhaps there could be other reasons behind the maps size?") and you flamed me ("no pathy, you retard, if they could have made it bigger they would have, god, its so simple, your so stupid, sorry, you disagree with me, therefore your nothing better than a turd on my shoe"

As understanding as your usual self, Baron.

Excuse me, but you were doing nothing BUT whining.

I made my point: Far Cry can NOT handle 4,000,000 Square kilometres.

You then proceded to argue, greet and whine about why you think it can. Then back down and admit it cannot, and greet and whine some more about how you don't like being told you are wrong.

Cry me a river.

[mr_rOk 0]

Children. Both of you.

[Placebo 28]

How bout you two listen to your peers and quit it already please

[Guest]

We have to wait till release to see this. No Demo is scheduled until after the full game release.

Or you could try and find the version we are not allowed to talk about here

[Bmot 0]

*COUGH* *COUGH*