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Iron Front in Arm3 LITE - preview versions

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Congratulations guys for an AMAZING JOB and I love everything about this mod. Thanks!!

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@madrussian as always great detailed feedback and input :icon14: much appreciated :drinking2:

 

> [External camera] placed directly behind the vehicles

Cars and trucks have a slight offset (as did BI - i think since OFP even) - tried it also for tanks, planes and boats, yet for them it seemed weird.

Might be related to size, and/or the type of vehicle and the connected impression what one is used too.

 

Overall the design goal with the adjustment was to see the full vehicle from behind, with some space behind it, but not too much, and camera

angle to see somewhat infront of the vehicle. There is still some room for improvement I feel, yet its a lot better now indeed.

 

PS: Didnt event consider gunner use, yet very good point indeed.

 

 

> "Move to Driver"

Actually not sure what caused this change of behavior. Is this issue still present elsewhere?

 

 

> plus _vehic setUnloadInCombat [false, false] keeps everyone in their proper seats

Set 'unloadInCombat = 1;' for Halftracks intentionally as the idea was you want to cargo to get out and engage.

 

So from what i understand you are saying also the driver gets out? (does this also happen with cars/trucks?)

 

We could try to force the AI to stay via scripting, yet this may break/limit some other scripting as a result.

 

And are you also suggesting its in general bad idea to have cargo get out? Regardless under firing by plane, 

tank, light weapons from vehicles/statics, or infantry?

One could script a more flexible behavior again here i think.

 

 

> allowCrewInImmobile

Yes its active (in fact it was since IF SA, but got broken at some point until it was fixed recently).

 

In fact we are to upgrade soon (finally) to @x3kj advanced damage system for tanks.

Basically its to achieve rather get disabled, or parts destroyed, crew killed and so on, and only

to explode when ammo storage or fuel tanks get hit.

 

That said in regards to AI, scripting and player expectations some changes will be necessary too.

Anyhow to get AI to eject when appropriate will then be scripted to be more meaningful.

 

 

> AI driver will keep trying to get the busted tank moving indefinitely, which causes the tank to spin

Good input once again! Haven't seen this myself for some reason. This will be dealt with in combination

with above change.

 

> until the tank encountered enemy units.  At this point tank would basically stop for an extremely lengthy period of time

Great research and find! A few questions in relation to this:

 

1) Does it happen only with fully crewed? Did you get to narrow it down exactly when this is this case? (ie main gunner, multiple gunners, commander, cargo)

2) Does this apply only to tanks? What about armored cars? Boats? Planes (with multi crew)?

3) Would you recommend to set '_group enableAttack false;' then? And to what in particular?

 

 

> _group allowFleeing 0;

Why do you set this for vehicles, or is it just for infantry (aka when they get out, mixed group, etc)?

> _vehic setUnloadInCombat [false, false];

Do you apply this also to cars/trucks? Or only halftracks? (tanks should no longer need it)

 

 

Thanks again!

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8 hours ago, .kju said:

> [External camera]... Overall the design goal with the adjustment was to see the full vehicle from behind, with some space behind it, but not too much, and camera angle to see somewhat infront of the vehicle. There is still some room for improvement I feel, yet its a lot better now indeed.

 

PS: Didnt event consider gunner use, yet very good point indeed.

Sounds good!  As you continue to tweak and improve external cameras, please keep us 3rd person gunners in mind.  Note that under normal circumstances in ArmA3 (default vehicles included), on steep terrain, 3rd person gunner views are regularly completely blocked by the vehicle, in part because the cam is oriented to the horizon and not the vehicle.  So margin for too much blockage may be slim.  Again, things feel pretty good right now for those halftracks and M3s (which were the biggest offenders), but I'd hate to see them slide back into being too obstructed.

 

8 hours ago, .kju said:

> "Move to Driver"

Actually not sure what caused this change of behavior. Is this issue still present elsewhere?

Interesting.  I only ever noticed this action on IFA3 halftracks and M3s.  I suppose perhaps another mod was adding it, but for a very long time now I've been running IFA3 with CUP only, since RHS was blowing away config values on IFA3 turrets (as you may recall I reported accidentally as IFA3 issue and you correctly identified as RHS issue, which if I recall correctly their team subsequently fixed -> but that got me worried about other potential turret conflicts between mods).  I always run CUP alongside any mods when playing because it fixes a bad animation transition error in the default game that persists to this day (stationary kneeling with rifle directly to sprint if memory serves).  When trying to confirm or isolate an issue, of course I run with no mods and then with only the particular mod.  In any event, seems like that "Move to Driver" action disappeared around time of your "quality of life" update.

 

8 hours ago, .kju said:

> plus _vehic setUnloadInCombat [false, false] keeps everyone in their proper seats

Set 'unloadInCombat = 1;' for Halftracks intentionally as the idea was you want to cargo to get out and engage.

...

We could try to force the AI to stay via scripting, yet this may break/limit some other scripting as a result.

 

And are you also suggesting its in general bad idea to have cargo get out? Regardless under firing by plane, 

tank, light weapons from vehicles/statics, or infantry?

One could script a more flexible behavior again here i think.

I started using setUnloadInCombat in two specific cases.

 

First, you may recall (and to review for anyone first hearing about this):

 

I wanted to fill out all turrets on AI-only IFA3 tanks, but ran into a bizarre issue where the extra turret gunners (those additional beyond regular gunner and commander, like the hull gunners) were errantly disembarking upon contact with the enemy.  Eventually I pinned this problematic disembarking down to occurring the moment their nearby same-side units were hit, including same-side vanilla foot units.  Further experiments revealed that even IFA3 extra turret gunners with disableAI "ALL", would eject in this manner!  Got stumped for eons, thought of trying setUnloadInCombat on many occasions as a potential solution but quickly dismissed and never tried it (because after all entering COMBAT mode would not by itself cause extra turret gunners to disembark).

 

Here's quick ref:

vehicle setUnloadInCombat [allowCargo, allowTurrets]

 

One day I tried _vehic setUnloadInCombat [false, false], and by God that worked, and kept those extra turret gunners in their seats!  Happy to have finally solved that issue, I didn't bother to experiment further, though seems to reason allowTurrets was the key part.

 

Second:  In my dynamic mission, I have trucks (and more recently also APCs including halftracks) that bring in troops and drop them off.  Vehicle crew in one group, cargo guys in another group.  By design I intended for vehicle to unload cargo men exactly once, and then for the driver to drive away to extraction point and be deleted.  The default game's "unload upon contact" mechanics normally works well and in fact we all rely on it.  However, I was experiencing numerous related issues with the end result being that the troops would either not disembark or would disembark and then get back it, which is obviously a huge issue.  Also in some case when the driver was killed enroute to dropoff location, the default game engine has someone else in the vehicle take over as driver, in this case a cargo group unit, which was also a big problem, messing up my scripts.  Eventually I arrived at keeping everyone in via _vehic setUnloadInCombat [false, false], and scripting my own disembark, which works well (everyone disembarks exactly once) and had several side-benefits:  Dead men are not ejected during disembark (which happens sometimes during default game disembark), skipping over dead men (vs how default game disembark gives dead men full delay), and finally intentionally faster than default game disembark (shorter cycle timer).

 

Long story short:

Seems to me that setUnloadInCombat is probably necessary to stop extra turret gunners from errantly disembarking (which otherwise would occur when nearby same-side units being hit as described above).  IFA3 addons should probably apply in this manner automatically.  (Perhaps you guys already added this to extra turret gunners?)

 

Alternately, no need to automatically apply setUnloadInCombat to cargo units.  (Mission creators can apply as desired, as I needed to.)

 

8 hours ago, .kju said:

So from what i understand you are saying also the driver gets out? (does this also happen with cars/trucks?)

AI driver getting out was related specifically to player's "Move to Driver" action (which again that action now appears to be gone).  Player would use that action to bump out driver and take his place.  AI driver would move to cargo.  Not really sure why AI driver would then get out, but upon contact he would.  Nothing to do with anything I scripted in that case.  Possibly somehow related to "extra turret gunners ejecting when nearby friendly unit hit" issue.  Then often he would later randomly get back in... if I recall correctly, again into driver position!

 

8 hours ago, .kju said:

> allowCrewInImmobile

Yes its active (in fact it was since IF SA, but got broken at some point until it was fixed recently).

 

In fact we are to upgrade soon (finally) to @x3kj advanced damage system for tanks.

Basically its to achieve rather get disabled, or parts destroyed, crew killed and so on, and only

to explode when ammo storage or fuel tanks get hit.

 

That said in regards to AI, scripting and player expectations some changes will be necessary too.

Anyhow to get AI to eject when appropriate will then be scripted to be more meaningful.

Sounds awesome!  May I suggest some purposed element of randomness to certain crew reactions, so things don't seem too robotic.  For instance, maybe crew does not always realize how bad they are hit and that they are about to explode, so don't bail out in time (plus alternately sometimes only some crew make it out before explosion).  Also, maybe when tank is immobile, most of the time they stay in, but sometimes they bail (thinking perhaps explosion was imminent, when in fact it was not).  Otherwise, player will never get a chance to take over and man the busted but otherwise functional tank (with functional guns).

 

8 hours ago, .kju said:

> until the tank encountered enemy units.  At this point tank would basically stop for an extremely lengthy period of time

Great research and find! A few questions in relation to this:

 

1) Does it happen only with fully crewed? Did you get to narrow it down exactly when this is this case? (ie main gunner, multiple gunners, commander, cargo)

2) Does this apply only to tanks? What about armored cars? Boats? Planes (with multi crew)?

Great questions, unsure at the moment.  If/when I learn more (hopeful), will report back!

 

8 hours ago, .kju said:

3) Would you recommend to set '_group enableAttack false;' then? And to what in particular?

If the question is whether IFA3 addon should apply this automatically, I would say no, at least for now.  Leaving enableAttack at default engine value will ensure AI act in manner consistent with default game, unless it turns out those extra turret gunners are indeed having an additional impact on delay that normally arises from AIs encountering enemy.

 

In my dynamic mission, I fill out all turret gunners on all vehicles, on all sides (player side, side allied with player side, and enemy side).  On the enemy side, I want the enemy to move in and attack more methodically, and don't mind the (sometimes big) delays.  On the player side, the only armed vehicles the player ever gets come via player's call for Armored support.  Player orders these vehicles around via icon on the map, and it needs to be responsive, so I use enableAttack false.  So I think it's a case by case basis, and thus again IFA3 addon should probably not apply enableAttack automatically.

 

For mission creators, quick points about enableAttack:

  1. enableAttack has a HUGE impact on how fast AI will continue to move along once they contact the enemy.  This applies to foot soldiers for sure and (apparently, based on my own recent discoveries which may need to be fine tuned) also to vehicles.  (Disclaimer - There is a chance this only applies to vehics with extra turret gunners.  Need run more experiments to know for sure.)
  2. More specifically, leaving enableAttack at default value (true) will cause AI-only foot groups to break into subgroups (which can be detected via formLeader) upon contact with the enemy.  The subgroups will move out to spots chosen/ordered by the AI group leader.  Upon arrival, these subgroups will stay for a random amount of time.  Unless something has changed, at the upper end this can exceed six minutes.  Based on my testing (long ago, again this may have changed since), it did not matter whether the AI killed all enemy nearby or not, they would still wait out the whole time.  If I recall correctly, when testing this I had AUTOCOMBAT disabled on all the AI. <- Can read about these experiments here.
  3. Setting AI-only foot group to enableAttack false inhibits group leader from issuing these move out subgrouping commands.  This allows your AI-only group to move along quickly and reach it's destination much faster!
  4. For some reason, with fully crewed AI-only IFA3 tanks (and perhaps all vehicles inc vanilla, unsure at this moment) setting group to enableAttack false will cause tank to keep moving to WP, where otherwise it stops along the way to fight for long periods of time, similar to how foot soldiers operate (as described above).  Now how do we reconcile this, considering all AI-only tank crew are inside the tank?  My guess is in case of AI tank group with enableAttack true, tank leader is ordering his driver to move out in the same manner as with AI foot soldiers.  (Would be interesting to learn whether vehicle subordinates are degrouped, as occurs with foot units.)

Long story short.  More enableAttack discoveries to be made.  In the mean time (as mission creator):

  • If you want your AI-only groups to stop and fight along the way, leave enableAttack true (default value).
  • If you want your AI-only groups to fight along the way but not stop (or minimally stop), set enableAttack false.
  • If you want some combination of stopping and moving along, create a script that toggles enableAttack back and forth on a timer, and also when appropriate account for regrouping the resulting subgroups, and reversing the stops (command chosen based on whether default game is stopping them via stopdoStop, or another method)
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Any idea why I get a white line in the middle of the screen with some of the terrains in this mod? Not all but some of them.

That also happens when I use vehicles from the mod with vanilla terrains. Thanks!

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3 hours ago, nikiforos said:

Any idea why I get a white line in the middle of the screen with some of the terrains in this mod? Not all but some of them.

That also happens when I use vehicles from the mod with vanilla terrains. Thanks!

I'm getting white line lately too.  I haven't tried to pin it down to particular mod (or units within mod) yet.  Seems like I had CBA, CUP, IFA3 and FOW running.

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I understand this question might not relate to IFA3Lite but I was wondering if anyone knows which mod randomly selects 'Face' items and adds them to units? ( If anyone from the Iron Front Arma 3 Lite mod wants to delete this post please do.)

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21 hours ago, madrussian said:

I'm getting white line lately too.  I haven't tried to pin it down to particular mod (or units within mod) yet.  Seems like I had CBA, CUP, IFA3 and FOW running.

I get this too, and I think this is an ifa3 issue...I think I recall a team member fixing this, but then had a falling out with ifa3 and demanded his fix he removed alongside the rest of his content.

i could be confusing stories though, my memory is terrible 

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The mortars don't work properly when manned by AI.

The German mortar never fires at all unless the target is in an extremely specific range (like 250-300 meters).

The Russian mortar fires properly, but when it turns to face a target often times it will tip over, landing upside down, forcing the crew to disembark.

Please fix these problems.

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This mod inspired me to make this video about World War 2 .. Thank you guys for an amazing job!

 

 

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On 10/18/2018 at 9:45 AM, pognivet said:

The mortars don't work properly when manned by AI.

The German mortar never fires at all unless the target is in an extremely specific range (like 250-300 meters).

The Russian mortar fires properly, but when it turns to face a target often times it will tip over, landing upside down, forcing the crew to disembark.

Please fix these problems.

mortars have been like this for a very long time :( I also reported this 

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Hello team, quick thanks again for your efforts / awesome results. :smile_o:

 

Quick question - Just noticed some new "_KOTH" versions of some vehicles, like "LIB_sdKfz_7_AA" vs "LIB_sdKfz_7_AA_KOTH".  I assume these versions are specially made for "King of the Hill" game mode?

 

What is different about KOTH from standard versions (aside from type name)?  Trying to figure out whether to exclude them in my dynamic mission.

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@madrussian

Twice as fast turret rotation speed o their request.

 

As a tip: You can check things like this easily via the config brower or config dumps.

 

@devilspawn @pognivet

Sorry for the late reply!

 

This should be due to the artillery computer and its limits.

Will set up separate versions without to see if that helps.

 

Quote

white line in the middle of the screen with some of the terrains

This could be related to ponds. 

 

As we don't experience the issue ourselves and never got more dedicated reports to reproduce it, we could not address it unfortunately.

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.kju, Is your roadmap unchanged? Interested in the eastern front. (Russian faction).

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He is referring to the roadmap posted on page 70 of this thread, I believe. 

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that's still the current plan - with obvious delays of course :sorry:

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you never can you get enough, can you? :hyper:

 

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Excellent work on the sounds! Kudos to all involved. And thanks for your continued support for this mod, it's really, really appreciated.

 

Never thought i'd say this about any British WW2 era truck, but that's a beautiful looking Bedford(?) a few pages back...

 

Landing craft looking awesome too, but I'm especially looking forward to the Crusader!

 

I see a while back in one of the patches there was some work done on some tank texture/shadow glitches and bugs, is there any chance

the Sherman could be looked at as well? I'm sure the Sherman in the original Iron Front mod with the high res textures didn't have the

glitches/bugs. Maybe a result of the resolution of the textures being reduced?

 

Thanks again.

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Hey .kju and IFA3 Team, I would like to make a suggestion or rather a request. Is it not possible to use the US and German vehicles of the old ArmA 2 Liberation 1944 mod instead of some of the ones that Iron Front brought? At my point of view these look better, especially in some of their animations. At least, I could consider using the classic I44 Sherman M4 instead of using the current IFA, more than anything else it is an aesthetic question that all the vehicles of the allies have more or less the same appearance.

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By far not as simple as you seem to think it is.

Without PhysX it would have been possible, but BI even broken the old vehicle simulation at the same time..

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