Visual upgrade suggestion: European lighting

[semiconductor 309]

Since Arma 3 is about to receive a visual upgrade I thought that time has come to discuss a lighting issue that had been bothering me from the release of All In Arma Terrain pack: Mediterranean lighting, distance fog and skybox are unsuitable for European/Middle Eastern terrains, especially during the day.

Here are two screenshots made under same in-game conditions (October 10, 2008, 11:00am, 25% overcast) at the same location of Chernarus using the same Takistani T-72 tank:
http://imgur.com/a/bivzr Arma 2's lighting has more contrast, a bit more saturated colors and a proper Eastern European skybox.
Arma 3's lighting has less contrast, dim colors, has this unpleasant light-blue film of distance fog (I believe it simulates Mediterranean humidity) and completely lacks any skybox whatsoever.

Another, but closely related issue is the color of the fog: in Arma 3 it has a light blue color and while that's completely acceptable for an island in the midst of Mediterranean Sea, it must have a soft white tone at maps which represent locations in (roughly) northern hemisphere.

Personally, I find the Mediterranean lighting quite immersion breaking because not only it feels out of place on many maps but also because it causes models to look plastic, "weightless", flat. The following is my subjective impression but the T-72 on the first screenshot looks like it made of steel, it feels massive and looks dirty; the same T-72 (with the exception of couple of improvements made by CUP team, of course) looks like it made of plastic, it feels light like those inflatable Russian decoys and it doesn't look dirty despite having the same texture. The same goes to the Chernarus itself: in the first screenshot, it has a proper skybox of correct shade of blue with clouds, the terrain looks like actual Eastern European terrain with colorful grass and clearly noticeable patches of soil. Notice how much more pleasant the colors and contrasts of the barn on the left are in Arma 2 compared the exactly same barn with exactly the same texture in Arma 3.

The pending overhaul is in my opinion a step in a right direction but the new lighting is being made with Tanoa (a tropical archipelago) in mind therefore it is still doesn't quite cut it (at least at the time of writing):
http://imgur.com/a/HphfL The first screenshot was taken with unofficial port of new lighting to CUP terrains by metalcraze.
Without getting into too much detail, it's clear that the brightness, contrast and color balance is still way off even on Altis.

The new old lighting could especially come handy in light of (pun intended) tremendous progress made by Community Upgrade Project that allows mission makers to port or recreate any of their favorite missions on Arma 3's engine. Not to mention that the great deal of missions created specifically for Arma 3 is set in Chernarus or other older maps and these missions could benefit from "European" lighting too. Moreover, the new lighting might be useful for desert maps like Takistan beacuse, if my memory serves me right, both Arma 2 and Operation Arrowhead shared the same lighting. So, in my opinion, Arma 3 will gain massively in terms of immersion, amount of missions set in northern hemisphere and the player base shall the typical European lighting and weather conditions be added.

Summary

---

The problem: both current and upcoming lighting aren't suitable for locations in northern hemisphere / Middle East.

Proposed solution (based on my limited understanding of Arma's engine possibilities):

• Addition of generic "European" lightning preset similar to Arma 2's one into CfgPostprocessTemplates or making it available to mission or map makers through any other means (trough "official mod" probably?);
• Addition of a generic "European" skybox for map makers to use in their maps;
• Addition of an ability to remove and/or change color of the light-blue distance fog for mission and map makers;
• Addition of an ability to change the color of a usual fog for mission and map makers (I believe it was possible at some point during Alpha);

Unfortunately, I'm unable to create a corresponding ticket on Feedback Tracker right now due to ongoing maintenance.

TL;DR:

---

BI FIX TEH SUN IN CHERNO NAO PLOX THX

[austin_medic 109]

Wait.

 

Can't map makers create their own skybox textures?

They're also capable of changing lighting values (even for different parts of the day).

 

e.g for lighting:

class Lighting7
				{
					height = 0;
					overcast = 0.6;
					sunAngle = 2;
					sunOrMoon = 1;
					diffuse[] = {{1.1,0.4116,0.194},8.7725};
					diffuseCloud[] = {{0.99,0.37044,0.1746},7.89525};
					ambient[] = {{0.424,0.45925,0.7371},4.38625};
					ambientCloud[] = {{0.3816,0.413325,0.66339},3.94762};
					ambientMid[] = {{0.4782,0.52197,0.784},4.82487};
					ambientMidCloud[] = {{0.43038,0.469773,0.7056},4.34239};
					groundReflection[] = {{0.3692,0.35256,0.438785},4.58363};
					groundReflectionCloud[] = {{0.33228,0.317304,0.394907},4.12527};
					bidirect[] = {0.03337,0.031866,0.029845};
					bidirectCloud[] = {0.030033,0.028679,0.026861};
					sky[] = {{0.4312,0.4433,0.5175},10.5749};
					skyAroundSun[] = {{0.4392,0.32186,0.3609},10.6067};
					fogColor[] = {0.087,0.11165,0.1743};
					apertureMin = 10;
					apertureStandard = 15;
					apertureMax = 20;
					standardAvgLum = 70;
					desiredLuminanceCoef = 0.2;
					desiredLuminanceCoefCloud = 0.4;
					luminanceRectCoef = 0.4;
					luminanceRectCoefCloud = 0.2;
					rayleigh[] = {0.00749,0.01388,0.02878};
					mie[] = {0.0046,0.0046,0.0046};
					cloudsColor[] = {{0.8,0.81,1},10.5749};
					swBrightness = 1;
				}; 

 e.g for skybox:

                                class Weather1: Weather1 {
                                        sky = "A3\Map_Stratis\Data\sky_veryclear_sky.paa";
                                        skyR = "A3\Map_Stratis\Data\sky_veryclear_lco.paa";
                                        horizon = "A3\Map_Stratis\Data\sky_veryclear_horizont_sky.paa";
                                };

you'd need more than one skybox texture to match each possible weather condition

 

to me seems like CUP just isn't implementing A3 features properly into the maps, which makes them look flat and plastic-like.

 

The fog wouldn't look that bad if they weren't using the default Stratis/Altis skybox textures ^^

[Defunkt 431]

Yep, pretty sure this amounts to asking BIS to fix modded content. Probably better to discuss in the CUP TP thread or better yet, as you have a clear idea of what you feel is required, experiment with your own settings and submit these to CUP as a possible patch.

[chortles 263]

to me seems like CUP just isn't implementing A3 features properly into the maps, which makes them look flat and plastic-like.

Alternately, they may be waiting on the v1.60 RC or the stable branch build before releasing a Terrains update.

[semiconductor 309]

Can't map makers create their own skybox textures?

They're also capable of changing lighting values (even for different parts of the day).

Probably they can but I never saw a lighting setting that even mildly resembles Arma 2's one during the entire time of Arma 3's existence. Same problem with skybox - almost every map out there uses the default one. If it were a problem of a single map then I would have contacted the author but pretty much every map uses default skybox/lighting for some reason. And since BI is already working on new lighting, maybe they could find time to implement European lighting too?

 

Yep, pretty sure this amounts to asking BIS to fix modded content.

No, my suggestion is to implement certain features (including those which, I believe, were already implemented by BI earlier), not fixing any particular mod. See the "Summary" section for more details.

 

To clarify: this thread is not dedicated solely to the CUP TP lighting. The only reason I used CUP in my examples is that it allows me to use the same picture to compare lightings in Arma 2 and 3. I could have used any other map instead with the same results.

[St. Jimmy 272]

BIS could make a sample configs of those lighting settings, fog, skybox, etc. for northern and middle east countries so terrain makers could get some kind of base where to go with all the stuff. That's pretty much what you're asking for.

Many use the default values and stuff because lighting isn't just a small thing to tweak. There's 72 of those class LightingX that austin_medic posted.
Then the skybox stuff seems to be bit different. CUP is using sky and horizon from Arma 2 so you can't "blame" them using the default Arma 3 one. But I'm not sure is it 100% if those port directly right because the skybox stuff differs how it was in Arma 2. Just compare the skybox files and you'll see.

 

The skybox stuff has changed compared to Arma 2 so it's new stuff for modders.

[joostsidy 682]

'Same problem with skybox - almost every map out there uses the default one'

Whose fault is this? Maybe map authors should learn and invest time in adapting the lighting conditions themselves

 

'If it were a problem of a single map then I would have contacted the author but pretty much every map uses default skybox/lighting for some reason.'

That means you can contact any or all authors to discuss lighting with them and find out what 'some reason' is.

 

'And since BI is already working on new lighting, maybe they could find time to implement European lighting too'

Maybe, but BIS isn't making a European map, it would be purely extra gift on top of the possibilities they created for modders to do it themselves already.

 

It would be nice of BIS if they did it, but I completely understand that they don't. They add support for modding, you have to do the modding yourself, even if it's complicated and takes time.

[John Spartan 89]

 

They add support for modding, you have to do the modding yourself, even if it's complicated and takes time.

...this is probably the best answer here on this topic.

[semiconductor 309]

BIS could make a sample configs of those lighting settings, fog, skybox, etc. for northern and middle east countries so terrain makers could get some kind of base where to go with all the stuff. That's pretty much what you're asking for.

Well, yeah, maybe BI could approach lighting problem from this direction. As I stated in the first post, I'm not exactly well-versed in terms of Arma 3's inner workings so my proposal was more like a general idea rather than solid solution. Anything that helps mapmakers to finally tackle the problem will be great. :)

 

CUP is using sky and horizon from Arma 2 so you can't "blame" them using the default Arma 3 one. But I'm not sure is it 100% if those port directly right because the skybox stuff differs how it was in Arma 2. Just compare the skybox files and you'll see.

That's exactly what got me thinking that it might be an engine's problem: why would CUP team or kju use the default skybox if they apparently had all the sources on their hands? I even tried to change skybox on Takistan myself just to see how it works and got no results (then again, I'm not a modder so I might have simply screwed up something). But however that may be, it is quite clear from the first pair of screenshots that Arma 3 uses the default skybox despite CUP's Chernarus apparently being configured to use an Arma 2's one.

 

Whose fault is this? Maybe map authors should learn and invest time in adapting the lighting conditions themselves

Please cool down a little, I'm not assigning guilt to anybody, I’m looking for the ways to solve the lighting problem. Yes, maybe they should and maybe BI could help them a bit.

 

It would be nice of BIS if they did it, but I completely understand that they don't.

Yeah, it would be. And while we're on the subject, allow me to clarify again: I'm not demanding anything form BI, I'm only suggesting my idea as per BI's own invitation to do so. I know that most people don't read beyond the title but come on, the word "suggestion" constitutes like 1/4 of the thread title's length.

[chortles 263]

That's exactly what got me thinking that it might be an engine's problem: why would CUP team or kju use the default skybox if they apparently had all the sources on their hands?

This is tricky depending on how you define "all the sources", as Bohemia has never released full unbinarized source files for any official terrain except Sahrani.

[joostsidy 682]

This is tricky depending on how you define "all the sources", as Bohemia has never released full unbinarized source files for any official terrain except Sahrani.

 

I think he just means all the necessary sources to build a fitting sky/lighting, not literally all the sources.

 

@conductor

Asking for things or making suggestions should be a two-way street. To me it doesn't seem that you put in enough time to either fix it yourself or investigate the problem. But you do ask of BIS that they will investigate the problem and put in the time to fix it for you.

In my opinion it would be more polite and effective if you did some more work on the problem yourself. Maybe with your findings you can present a clear problem to BIS that only they can fix (for instance, modders can make everything 'europe' except the fog). With such an approach you improve the chance that they will actually look into this. Just realize: European skies is mostly your problem, not BIS problem, or many of its customers that don't play on such maps. The development focus is somewhere else at this moment.

[semiconductor 309]

This is tricky depending on how you define "all the sources", as Bohemia has never released full unbinarized source files for any official terrain except Sahrani.

If I understand the inner workings of Arma's engine correctly, one don't need an unbinarized source to use certain resource in one's map. But it seems that for some reason it isn't enough to just reference an old skybox resource in new terrain's config file to get it working in Arma 3.

 

To me it doesn't seem that you put in enough time to either fix it yourself or investigate the problem.

I see, however your personal expectations, life experiences or notions of sufficiency have nothing to do with the problem we're discussing so please try to stay on topic. Thank you.

[Defunkt 431]

I see, however your personal expectations, life experiences or notions of sufficiency have nothing to do with the problem

But yours do?

 

I think joostsidy has it exactly right, this is why people mod, and this is why BIS expose the settings to allow modding. You see something you think could be better and you try to make it so, if you find it's something only BIS can improve then by all means try and bring that to their attention. It would be cool if they did create a whole lot of presets and examples for modders to use but it's hard to see how that's likely to become a priority with everything else they're working on. Having provided the means, I don't imagine they feel terribly responsible for the fact that people aren't, or haven't yet, fully utilized them.

[semiconductor 309]

It would be cool if they did create a whole lot of presets and examples for modders to use but it's hard to see how that's likely to become a priority with everything else they're working on.

Well, it seems that we're actually in agreement so either I'm missing something or you're unable the grasp the concept of suggestion. Just in case it is the former, could you please specify where exactly did I stated that solving the lighting problem should be a priority or that I demand or at least expect BI to solve it?

[Defunkt 431]

Well, it seems that we're actually in agreement so either I'm missing something or you're unable the grasp the concept of suggestion. Just in case it is the former, could you please specify where exactly did I stated that solving the lighting problem should be a priority or that I demand or at least expect BI to solve it?

Didn't reproach you for making a suggestion I just don't think it's a terribly realistic one given BIS have already provided the means by which you might create what you want yourself.

[semiconductor 309]

Didn't reproach you for making a suggestion I just don't think it's a terribly realistic one given BIS have already provided the means by which you might create what you want yourself.

Then I don't know what we were arguing about. ;)

[semiconductor 309]

Well, I think it safe to say that thanks to the BI's Visual Upgrade, CUP team's operativeness and this bullet purveyor's post the issue brought up in this topic has been successfully resolved. :)

http://imgur.com/a/bREgC

 

Here are the prostprocess settings (courtesy of bullet purveyor):

HBAO+ high
Brightness 1.0

Gamma 0.7

 

postprocess settings:
Brightness 80

Contrast 90
Saturation 80.

 

Oh, and you have to set overcast value to at least 60% (for Chernarus).