ArmA Updates Are Really Feeling Rushed And I'm Seriously Questioning Buying Apex

[rekkless 240]

So the last 3 ArmA updates have been really pretty bad. In fact in so many ways seriously game breaking.

 

1.54 totally reworked the damage system and broke every mod that had armor. We had to wait weeks for each mod to be updated. In the long run it was a good thing but clearly so many mod developers were caught unprepared. But more significantly it introduced a really significant memory leak that would cause servers to crash. Even after the quickly released HOTFIX dedicated servers were still pretty unstable. There were also a number of other issues with this patch that were not present in 1.52 but it was a while ago and off the top of my head I can't remember.

 

1.56 totally reworked the sound engine, while in the long run this is a good thing. But it had SOOO many sound problems, the steam forums were littered with people complaining they had no sound at all, others like my self would lose ambient sounds when they ALT Tab'd out of the game. For over 2 months we had to play a game that you couldn't ALT TAB out of essentially. EVEN after the hotfix that problem still persisted. With the addition of the EDEN editor there were still problems a mile long with missions not displaying the Mission Author and other things. At least 1.56 fixed the memory leak.

 

1.58 - The road to Apex. Fixed the ALT TAB issue (at least for me) but so many new problems have reared their head. Setting difficulty settings for a Dedicated Server has now become a chore. With only allowing for ONE custom difficulty setting, which is fine if you run a Altis Life server but if you run a community server that run many different game mode and missions this is now hell to enforce and allow certain settings. While I haven't really noticed it I have reports from people from other groups experiencing wacky AI who are even more AIM Botty than before.

 

 

It really to me feels like each and every patch BI have been releasing since 1.52 has felt rushed, incomplete and buggy. I mean surely there is a QC team and testers that test the hell out of these patches before they are released? Why aren't these issues being picked up?

I can tell you this, each significant issue I've had with each recent patch I've noticed within 30 minutes of my very first game with each patch. So how professionals are missing these things I do not know.

 

 

So now we are looking down the barrel of 1.60 and the Apex expansion and what it will bring. Now I feel if this trend continues of buggy, incomplete patches I feel I will be wasting my money. Because by the time hotfixes and patches are released and APEX is working how it was intended to in say patch 1.64+ I will be able to buy APEX on a steam sale for half the price. So why should I pay $40 for a Expansion that I really have no faith in will work as intended or as promised?

 

 

I'm not trying to be rude or mad or insulting. But game patches and update should be things to be excited for, to look forward to. But it has quickly turned into the "Ok, what is broken now" day.

 

Please take your time with Apex, get it right. If it isn't released until the final quarter of 2016 no one will care. We as a community can not keep taking this broken practice of releasing patches too early.

 

Please also update your documentation for server admins too, don't just make a significant change that will totally break servers (like this new difficulty system) and not offer CLEAR documentation or videos in your SITREPS BEFORE THE PATCH is released. That way we can be prepared when they do arrive.

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

I think EDEN was the best update. For me at least. This last update however, I wouldn't say rushed, but did end up giving my PC some issues in terms of FPS. As for Apex, that's not 1.60. Likely comes after 60.

[rekkless 240]

I think EDEN was the best update. For me at least. This last update however, I wouldn't say rushed, but did end up giving my PC some issues in terms of FPS. As for Apex, that's not 1.60. Likely comes after 60.

 

Eden did add a lot of good things, but how the multiple sound issues got past QC baffles me. And it wasn't like there were only a couple of players who experienced it the steam forums were filled with people complaining they had sound problems and for 2 months until 1.58 came out nothing was done.

 

 

Which ever patch Apex is (if it is not 1.60) I am not confident on day 1 of downloading it after paying my $40 that it will work properly. The Co-OP campaign might crash dedicated servers or Alternate fire on the new weapons won't work. Something or a number of things will probably be wrong and have been missed by the Devs and we will be stuck with an expensive, frustrating expansion that while it adds so much it breaks so many other obvious aspects of the game and ruins the experience. Then by the time it is fixed everyone is buying it on the steam Winter sales or Zeus forbid the Steam Spring sales for $20 instead of 40.

[lato190 55]

i would also appreciate if updates would come every 3 months. Modders have to fix theyr mods every month when a patch has been released. BI would also have more time to fix, tweak, add stuff and the changelogs would be even larger than now.

[Jackal326 1158]

Which ever patch Apex is (if it is not 1.60) I am not confident on day 1 of downloading it after paying my $40 that it will work properly. The Co-OP campaign might crash dedicated servers or Alternate fire on the new weapons won't work. Something or a number of things will probably be wrong and have been missed by the Devs and we will be stuck with an expensive, frustrating expansion that while it adds so much it breaks so many other obvious aspects of the game and ruins the experience. Then by the time it is fixed everyone is buying it on the steam Winter sales or Zeus forbid the Steam Spring sales for $20 instead of 40.

The fact is, the same can be said for most if not all 'AAA' games, both on initial release and after patches. It seems to be the 'in' thing, I'm not saying its the "right thing" but its certainly becoming the "norm". Its become a not-so-inside-joke amongst the group I play with when a new patch for ArmA is released as to how many of us will suffer game-breaking bugs, or what features of 'Mod A' and 'Addon B' wont work.

[Greenfist 1863]

I thought most modders tested their stuff in good time before the actual update? For example the 1.58 was in public testing a month before the release. They can't really be caught unprepared, can they?

[R0adki11 3945]

I thought most modders tested their stuff in good time before the actual update? For example the 1.58 was in public testing a month before the release. They can't really be caught unprepared, can they?

Not all of us can test, personally addon making is one of my hobbies. I don't necessary have the time to test my addon on the dev branch before the release of an update. Luckily most patches haven't really broken my addons, also its quite likely my Nogovan Armed Forces Mod has only a small following compared to the bigger mods in Arma3.

[Richie 330]

Trust me, the arma tools are far more frustrating than the game updates :p

[PuFu 4591]

I thought most modders tested their stuff in good time before the actual update? For example the 1.58 was in public testing a month before the release. They can't really be caught unprepared, can they?

If you ask me, the only version that is worth testing for is RC, never dev branch. but even then most modding groups don't have large QC groups to test every other scenario out there. Bi is in the same bucket, maybe at a smaller scale.

The changes that affects mods - while frustrating for all parties involved (users and modders), a game developer (even one that relies on community made content as much as BI does) cannot push things forward without breaking shit along the way. I know it is expected on both ends.

[TheJamesFarley 0]

so has ANYONE found out how to setup a windows dedicated server and allowing 3rd person on Custom? I STILL cant find anything that works lol

[HeroesandvillainsOS 1504]

so has ANYONE found out how to setup a windows dedicated server and allowing 3rd person on Custom? I STILL cant find anything that works lol

The second page in this thread may have your answer. Haven't tried it myself but worth a shot.

https://forums.bistudio.com/topic/190130-difficulties-in-setting-difficulties-post-158/page-2

[TheJamesFarley 0]

The second page in this thread may have your answer. Haven't tried it myself but worth a shot.

https://forums.bistudio.com/topic/190130-difficulties-in-setting-difficulties-post-158/page-2

thanks for that, ill give it a try

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

Oh yeah, Via. latest sitrep, BI are cooking up a hotfix. should help with some of the issues.

[Beagle 684]

I currently also have lost my confidence in BIS. Back in ArmA  & ArmA II days I ordered everythign blindfold. That's over and im sick of acting as an beta tester for years.

[das attorney 857]

I feel I will be wasting my money

 

 

If you don't want to buy it, then don't.

 

If you do then do.

 

Vote with your wallet. Diatribes of this nature won't change a thing at this stage in the game,

[Defunkt 431]

Loving the heady pace of updates, makes being a fan of the game more engaging and provides a sense of participation (partnership even when it comes to the dev branch).

 

The game has never been in better shape.

[rekkless 240]

das attorney - That's the thing I do want to buy APEX but I am not confident at all that it is going to be value for money, I am not confident it is going to work and I am not confident it is not going to break the shit out of my game.

 

 

 

 

I would like to point out I understand BI can't ensure each update is not going to break community mods. Updates like the improved ballistics and the sound system are a pain in the arse initially. But in the long run once mod developers update their mods they are ultimately for the good of the game.

 

What I'm talking about are the obvious things, things that should picked up by a competent staff of Developers - The memory leak, the sound problems, the eden bugs and this clearly not thought through difficulty system (although this one is by design so not technically a bug).

I'm sure there are more but those 3-4 major game breaking bugs come to mind with the past 6 months of updates.

 

 

Don't get me wrong either, I love all the new inclusions - firing from vehicles, switching weapons on the move, the 3d editor, weapon resting. But these can not excuse the significant and obvious bugs that make their way into the patch. Due to what feels like the updates being rushed.

 

I would also like to say 1.58 is the best patch in terms of improved features and stability. Just that there are still prevalent bugs that I expect wouldn't be the.

[en3x 209]

You probably know that Bohemia has quality assurance team which test things accordingly but they can never catch every issue especially

with so many people running so many different mods, tweaks, servers.That is part of the game development.

I'm satisfied how they eliminate and prioritize game breaking issues when they are discovered.

[haleks 8206]

@rekkless :

 

I don't know where you get that "rushed updates" feeling from; it's certainly not my opinion as a mod/mission maker.

As you pointed out yourself, some of the recent changes are rather drastic, and on top of that are coming at a late stage (Arma3 is 3 years old already!) : given the complexity and scale of the game, I think BIS is doing an outstanding job.

 

Sure, the constant addition of new commands & changes require more work from the modders, but it also paves the road to more optimized and reliable third party content. I for one am pretty glad with the attention Bohemia is giving to the modding community, eventhough it is not always perceived as a positive thing by players ("Oh noes! JSRS/ACE/insertModName is broken again!"). Most of the major optimizations I made to my main project recently were possible only thanks to those recent updates & additions, be it multiplayer compatibility or plain code efficiency.

 

That is something I love about this series : while some studios have a nasty tendency to rely solely on modders to promote/fix their games (yes, Bethesda, that's you there), BIS chose the hard road and is pretty much working along with modders. This kind of relationship can be complicated sometimes, but ultimately there is a real sinergy between devs & modders. As far as I'm concerned, BIS are about the only ones right now who do listen to their player base - voicing your opinion is not vain like it usually is for other titles.

 

Have a look at Elite Dangerous if you want a feel of rushed and broken updates. ;)

[PuFu 4591]

I would like to point out I understand BI can't ensure each update is not going to break community mods. Updates like the improved ballistics and the sound system are a pain in the arse initially. But in the long run once mod developers update their mods they are ultimately for the good of the game.

Then you shouldn't have mentioned it at all. 

[rekkless 240]

@rekkless :

 

I don't know where you get that "rushed updates" feeling from; it's certainly not my opinion as a mod/mission maker.

As you pointed out yourself, some of the recent changes are rather drastic, and on top of that are coming at a late stage (Arma3 is 3 years old already!) : given the complexity and scale of the game, I think BIS is doing an outstanding job.

 

Sure, the constant addition of new commands & changes require more work from the modders, but it also paves the road to more optimized and reliable third party content. I for one am pretty glad with the attention Bohemia is giving to the modding community, eventhough it is not always perceived as a positive thing by players ("Oh noes! JSRS/ACE/insertModName is broken again!"). Most of the major optimizations I made to my main project recently were possible only thanks to those recent updates & additions, be it multiplayer compatibility or plain code efficiency.

 

That is something I love about this series : while some studios have a nasty tendency to rely solely on modders to promote/fix their games (yes, Bethesda, that's you there), BIS chose the hard road and is pretty much working along with modders. This kind of relationship can be complicated sometimes, but ultimately there is a real sinergy between devs & modders. As far as I'm concerned, BIS are about the only ones right now who do listen to their player base - voicing your opinion is not vain like it usually is for other titles.

 

Have a look at Elite Dangerous if you want a feel of rushed and broken updates. ;)

 

 

Ok so although I mentioned it (but I probably shouldn't hadn't) the damage overhaul, sound updates were overall good. It just appeared in particular the modding community was not prepared for them, I mean RHS still hasn't updated their vast audio catalog not to mention many other mods. This isn't the mod makers fault as I'm sure it is a huge job.

 

But ok here is something. The sound problems with 1.56. I mean I could load into a mission and ALT TAB out of it within seconds, you know to open teamspeak, get FRAPS started or hell any number of reasons one might ALT TAB shortly after logging into a game them bam you lose all ambient sound for the rest of your session.

I mean how does that pass any kind of quality control? and for 2 months nothing was done about it.

The memory leak of 1.54. Surely BI do stress testing on dedicated servers before they release an update?

I'm in no way bashing the game or the devs, but these are pretty obvious bugs that kind of hit you in the face.

I agree with you those that game has never been better shape, but when each and every patch seems to bring a number of issues with it I am just questioning if spending $40 on a Expansion that is probably going to be buggy is worth it. When really I want to buy it day or ever preorder. Anyway I know I'm not alone in feeling this way, I get messages from so many other groups and players I play with about this, in fact the topic of pre ordering APEX comes up in a weekly discussion with basically the biggest argument against is that it probably won't work properly or filled with game breaking bugs.

[Jackal326 1158]

But ok here is something. The sound problems with 1.56. I mean I could load into a mission and ALT TAB out of it within seconds, you know to open teamspeak, get FRAPS started or hell any number of reasons one might ALT TAB shortly after logging into a game them bam you lose all ambient sound for the rest of your session.

I can't say as I ever had that issue and I ALT-TAB out for many reasons, you know to open Teamspeak, get FRAPS started etc. So perhaps it didn't happen to BI in their QA sessions either...

[haleks 8206]

Ok so although I mentioned it (but I probably shouldn't hadn't) the damage overhaul, sound updates were overall good. It just appeared in particular the modding community was not prepared for them, I mean RHS still hasn't updated their vast audio catalog not to mention many other mods. This isn't the mod makers fault as I'm sure it is a huge job.

 

But ok here is something. The sound problems with 1.56. I mean I could load into a mission and ALT TAB out of it within seconds, you know to open teamspeak, get FRAPS started or hell any number of reasons one might ALT TAB shortly after logging into a game them bam you lose all ambient sound for the rest of your session.

I mean how does that pass any kind of quality control? and for 2 months nothing was done about it.

The memory leak of 1.54. Surely BI do stress testing on dedicated servers before they release an update?

I'm in no way bashing the game or the devs, but these are pretty obvious bugs that kind of hit you in the face.

I agree with you those that game has never been better shape, but when each and every patch seems to bring a number of issues with it I am just questioning if spending $40 on a Expansion that is probably going to be buggy is worth it. When really I want to buy it day or ever preorder. Anyway I know I'm not alone in feeling this way, I get messages from so many other groups and players I play with about this, in fact the topic of pre ordering APEX comes up in a weekly discussion with basically the biggest argument against is that it probably won't work properly or filled with game breaking bugs.

 

 

I can't speak for the audio problems you're having as I never experienced those myself, but have you considered the possibility that those "memory leaks" are just caused by bad coding?

My understanding is that only a handfull of mods are affected : Exile, Altis life, zombies&demons etc... Those happen to spawn a lot of objects around players in a MP environment : there is a slight chance that either the authors or mission makers (or inexperienced kids eager to set up their own ultimate server) are doing something wrong, don't you think?

 

I use plenty of mods, including heavy working ones such as Alive : I can use this one to spawn (& virtualize) 500 units and play for hours without crashing; I'd say the engine is pretty solid as long as you know what you're doing. And yet, BIS acknowledged the problem (they could have ignored it seen as it doesn't seem to affect vanilla content) and assured us they are looking into it...

 

My point of view : have different expectations regarding stock playability vs mods. Mods will always be less reliable than vanilla content, do keep that in mind if you are "modsaholic" (like many of us).

It sure is frustrating when a big ass update shambles our precious mod-set, but in the end it's the game constant evolution that makes them possible in the first place (the first iteration of this series didn't even support mods...).

[rekkless 240]

I can't speak for the audio problems you're having as I never experienced those myself, but have you considered the possibility that those "memory leaks" are just caused by bad coding?

My understanding is that only a handfull of mods are affected : Exile, Altis life, zombies&demons etc... Those happen to spawn a lot of objects around players in a MP environment : there is a slight chance that either the authors or mission makers (or inexperienced kids eager to set up their own ultimate server) are doing something wrong, don't you think?

 

I use plenty of mods, including heavy working ones such as Alive : I can use this one to spawn (& virtualize) 500 units and play for hours without crashing; I'd say the engine is pretty solid as long as you know what you're doing. And yet, BIS acknowledged the problem (they could have ignored it seen as it doesn't seem to affect vanilla content) and assured us they are looking into it...

 

My point of view : have different expectations regarding stock playability vs mods. Mods will always be less reliable than vanilla content, do keep that in mind if you are "modsaholic" (like many of us).

It sure is frustrating when a big ass update shambles our precious mod-set, but in the end it's the game constant evolution that makes them possible in the first place (the first iteration of this series didn't even support mods...).

 

Fair Point.

[Beagle 684]

The problem is not solved by switching to tbb4, just delayed. In Mutiplayer the maxium hazzle free playtime is now down to 30 minutes in CTI with an active town. After that time you need to restart to fix the low fps issue, loosing all progress. Neeless to say that is it pointless to play that way at all.