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AH-64D Apache Longbow for ArmA3 by Nodunit and Franze

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Even more reason to have someone pick up the project. They will eventually answer a PM I'm sure, but first it needs to be sent :)

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Yup ....is this something wrong that someone put his work at project like this?. If Nodunit and Franze don't have enought free time to pay attenion of project meaby they could approved others work like Sacha. 

That makes AH-64 more playable - many of us waiting for that.

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Thank you guys, unfortunately I don't want to publish my version of Nodunit & Franze's AH-64D since I don't have their permission. I don't wanna start an internal war regarding the mod, it would be just wrong. Moreoever, my modifications are most likely made of "workarounds" and some lines edition.

 

My version suffers the same bugs than the current one, it's absolutely not bug free, but even in its current state, the AH-64D remains operable, even in multicrew after couple hours of test flights. This bird is heavily scripted, nothing like any other addons on Arma 3 - you gotta put your nose in thousands lines of codes to realize how talented these guys are and how much time it required (the config.cpp has nearly 65000 lines which calls differents scripts). I ain't a script guru, I just have some medium knowledge, nothing as close as Franze & Nodunit. I don't wanna steal their work, it's just a matter of respect. 

 

I also received some PM from various people about it. I know you guys are really excited about this little fancy "update" (so am I) but I can't publish it until I get the authorizations from both creators. If I get the go, then I'll send my version to both authors to power it up. 

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1 hour ago, Sacha [CPA 20] said:

 I don't wanna start an internal war regarding the mod,

Nobody wants :) 

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Well you only need Franze's permission now because you have mine.
Thank you for the  consideration in waiting to release the addon with your changes.

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6 hours ago, nodunit said:

Well you only need Franze's permission now because you have mine.
Thank you for the  consideration in waiting to release the addon with your changes.

Thats great news-hopefully Franze will fell the same way :)

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My modifications require some more work as I only worked on the Hellfire 114L for testing reasons and to avoid being confused working on all missile types at once. Reguarding the CfgAmmo class, I edited "hit", "indirectHit" and "indirectHitRange" variables.

 

All other missiles may require the same treatment. I'd like people to clearly see the differences at glance for each kind of missiles (thermobaric vs blast vs antitank warheads) by tuning each missiles differently.

 

I'd like also to rework the "cursor" to make it barely more visible and easier to spot while not being too much invasive on the screen. I dunno if it would be possible to recreate a DCS cursor type, which would disappear when the mouse device is not used after a cetain amount of time.

 

Also, there is a known bug on Arma 3 custom radio sound in multiplayer (which is directly linked to all startup sounds on the AH-64D). Those sounds are client side in multiplayer - I'd like to fix those so everyone inside and outside the aircraft would be able to hear those, but this looks like a big challenge to me. Using "playsound" function may fix the problem as I remember I used it couple of times while coding some missions - sounds were played correctly on a dedicated server and for everyone in the specified area.

 

Also, flares are missing on the AH-64D, there's a full work to do on that side, I've never done such work before, I have everything to learn. The AH-64D should have those as far as I know. Those flares should be expelled slightly frontwards and not backwards unlike other choppers in Arma 3.

 

Moreover, regarding the Hellfire 114L ability to catch laser spot - I'll look into some more data about it, I do have some doubts even though it sounds legit that the TADS would be able to catch the spot and transfer the data to the radar missile, but that's pure assumption, I don't have any evidence on it regarding that feature. For now, in the current state, there's no point of using the Hellfire 114K, Hellfire 114M and Hellfire 114N as the Hellfire 114L does the job in every situations. This issue is even stranger as on line 756 of the config.cpp file there is "laserlock = 0;" in the missile's configuration.

 

Finally, I'd like to provide to the aircraft the Arma 3 lightning systems pros, with strobes, landing lights and so on...

 

Honestly, those are all the ideas in my mind, but I cannot garantee to be able to fix all these issues as I probably don't have the appropriate knowledge yet and as I'm travelling a lot because of my job and that said I only have few days each month at home to work on it. I'd love to see the whole community working togheter on this project in the meantime Franze sort his personal life, I'm sure there are a lot of talented guys out there reading those lines.

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You've got my permission to do sound mods, etc. to it - there's a lot of pressing issues, especially since the sounds were made for ArmA2 and not ArmA3. I can't even speak as to whether or not we'll come back to the project now due to pressing issues with a lot of the scripting.

 

I recently quit my job, so I'll take a little time to explain some of the issues with the Apache and what I had planned to do about them:

 

One of the largest performance issues has to do with the skeleton system. We stretched the bone limit to the max in order to do things like the MPD pages and the full rotor articulation (most of the bones are in the cockpit displays, however). The issue is, the more bones a model has, the more the engine's performance suffers. There's approximately 200 bones on the skeleton for all the aircraft functions and that means there's a huge chunk of resources in the game going toward handling that. The plan was to try and use external DLL capability to remove those bones and instead put MPDs onto a separate, external DLL system, allowing us to get a real MPD functionality instead of a pseudo one through the model. That is a huge undertaking and last year was most definitely not the best time for me to even think about that.

 

The next largest is the scripting system, which I don't really need to elaborate on, but was designed to do things like ASE, RWR, damage tracking, sensor integration, weapon control, etc. since the base game has very simple modeling of those things. It takes a lot of effort to get just a little bit more realism out of all that! Case in point would be the gun and pylon elevation, which is still wonky in multiplayer since we used the animate command to make them work. Even then, the scripting is not well thought out, since there's a lot of fudging in terms of ballistic calculations, most of which were not redesigned to work with ArmA3's ballistics. Most of this would be fixed by rewriting of a lot of scripts and streamlining of the structure.

 

Third is the arming system, which could be made much more flexible thanks to the createSimpleObject command, introduced last year. This would allow some unconventional loadouts along with better external representation.

 

The vast majority of the scripting and the way it's designed makes sense if you think of it as a mod instead of a simple addon. The original plan was to have the AH-64A, AH-64D Blocks I-III, and possibly one or two other helicopters to try and remake some of the old classic survey sims from the '90s. I had gone as far as even making some maps better suited to helicopter operations than the typical small ones out there. Naturally, this proved far too ambitious for our small team, so by the time we got to a release for ArmA2, it was just the AH-64D Block II-ish, the training missions, and a single campaign. Transitioning to ArmA3 was made very difficult due to a lot of nagging issues, such as the broken modeltoworld command and the changes made to the animate command; much of how we made stuff work in ArmA2 was about using exploits or glitches that got fixed in ArmA3. That doesn't cover our plans with Take On Helicopters either, which transitioned into ArmA3 rather poorly.

 

As represented, right now what we really have is a AH-64D Block I with some Block II features. The reason for this is our development skipped around a lot - we did some work with the AH-64A, some with the Block II, and some with the Block III/E. At one point in time, it appeared that the Block III was going to be the frontrunner, but things with the model changed around and we ended up with a Block I/II instead, which lacks certain things such as flares and CMWS. The Block I only had a chaff dispenser, RWR, radar jammer, disco ball, and laser warning detector - it had no capability to detect IR guided missile launches nor flares to shake them with. Rather than scrap all the Block II features like the moving map, it became a kind of semi-upgraded Block I, lacking some features but having others.

 

Regarding the AGM-114L - the L model has the same warhead as the K model, so in terms of damage and blast it should be identical. The L does not have an internal capability to detect a laser spot, however; the Apache's sensor suite can pass data about the laser spot to the missile and tell it to fly there, but the missile will be making a guess based upon available data at the time of launch. That's what I scripted the LOAL modes to reflect - so if you lose your FCR, you could still switch to LOAL mode and use your L missiles, but they would receive no course correction updates and so would hit the target's position at the time of firing. That's kind of a simplifying way of how it really should work (as the real thing incorporates things such as inertial guidance, course correction updates, etc.) but significant enough for gameplay purposes. It also let an NR Apache tie in with a Longbow using the data transfer capability to pass targets around, a feature that seems really ridiculous in hindsight (but still cool, right?).

 

Anyways, going forward I can't say where the chips may fall - Nodunit has his own things to do and many of the plans I had last summer got derailed. It's tough to let go but that may be the inevitable conclusion of this project, especially seeing as how much of the scripting gets in the way of most people's desires, which is to have a better looking model to support infantry operations in the game, not a dedicated sim-lite modeling attack helicopter operations. In closing, I may try to get one last update in which has certain fixes in it, such as a proper horizon model for the transition and cruise IHADSS modes, but after that I don't really want to make any promises until I can consult the rest of the team and decide what we want to do, if anything.

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Thanks for that response Franze-it really explained a lot of what went into making this beautiful bird  and the amazing features you guys managed to implement through script-wizardry :)

 

So, unless I misunderstood-did you just give Sacha[CPA 20] permission to release his changes?

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Sorry to hear it might be the end of the project Franze/Nodunit it is a fantastic piece of work you have both created. 

Would you consider a lighter less sim heavy version for the remaining blocks? Or is that sacrilege?

 

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For me this mod has always been the example of what can be done with scripts, it'd be amazing if the team could get back on track!

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5 hours ago, ineptaphid said:

Thanks for that response Franze-it really explained a lot of what went into making this beautiful bird  and the amazing features you guys managed to implement through script-wizardry :)

 

So, unless I misunderstood-did you just give Sacha[CPA 20] permission to release his changes?

 

Yes, that's affirm from my end.

 

5 hours ago, deathmetalninja said:

Sorry to hear it might be the end of the project Franze/Nodunit it is a fantastic piece of work you have both created. 

Would you consider a lighter less sim heavy version for the remaining blocks? Or is that sacrilege?

 

 

There really wouldn't be that much to do in order to do later blocks, save for the fact that there's no models for them. Scripting wise, the hooks are already there for more advanced equipment. For the AH-64A, most of the scripts would be cut out save for a handful of pertinent ones.

 

4 hours ago, floris_heinen said:

For me this mod has always been the example of what can be done with scripts, it'd be amazing if the team could get back on track!

 

If anything, it's an example of too much scripting! While it does work, it doesn't work nearly as well as it should, especially not in ArmA3. Using scripting to take the shell and present it as something else is very difficult and highly resource consuming. As an example, the scripting takes the entire array list of vehicles and runs them through a sorting routine to find out if any vehicle match the detection parameters; if they do, they're added to a detection list, where they're again filtered for being in the sensor arc, air or ground, distance, etc. before finally being presented to the targeting scripting. This has to be done on a continual basis in order to display real-time targeting information.

 

I dug around and found a couple pictures of what I was doing last summer:
1A266594F3ADC41541A91BCF609AF2A0DE4D7B24

 

FBEEB6FB23EC3A1F99C0146B0659835B2E2D9276

 

The first one is an example of a 3D object on the IHADSS, which is more streamlined now. The second image is of an improved arming interface that was going to be a pre-mission type of interface, designed to work with a variety of aircraft.

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Very nice Franze! And thanks for allowing that update to be published :D

 

I think I might have to reinstall Arma 2-just to play you guys' Apache campaign. i never got to try it, and it looks really fun.

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Updated AH-64D has been sent to both Nodunit & Franze with the changelog. I made some last changes yesterday reguarding the PNVS (removed GHOT/BHOT and added NVG instead). I let them make it go live.

 

With everything that has been said by Franze, we need to find solutions to keep supporting this project. Keep in mind that what truely makes this mod a success and very unique is its complexity and the fact it shines and really stands out comparing to every other addons in its category - realism and fidelity are what we are all looking for, we aren't interested into conventional Arma 3 rotaries.

 

Arma keeps offering a lot of possibilities and tools reguarding addon creation, there should be a way to resolve this stuff. As you said, the AH-64D conception was designed on glitch and exploits from the old engine, so a full rework on some part if not every parts on the script side is needed.

 

I'm fully aware that the AH-64D requires a lot of work and devotion, even more for a small team. One of the solution would be to put this mod as "open source" and allow the community to work on it, as I just did - expanding the team (that's how CUP Project work right ?). So in the case there would be a full rework, everyone, with the appropriate knowledge could participate in the making off and the design of a revisited AH-64D.

 

Finally, there's too much work that have already been done on this project to simply give up, I don't want to, that would be a terrible lost.

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1 hour ago, Sacha Oropeza said:

One of the solution would be to put this mod as "open source" and allow the community to work on it, as I just did - expanding the team (that's how CUP Project work right ?). So in the case there would be a full rework, everyone, with the appropriate knowledge could participate in the making off and the design of a revisited AH-64D.

 

+ 30 998 001

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One should also note that thorugh the Jet DLC things like a radar and RWR should be simulated or atleast being closer to the real deal than the systems we have now.

 

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After some debate, I've updated the front page with v1.42, which has some small improvements over last spring's version - though nothing groundbreaking. With that, I'm also releasing the source files, to which I am adding the following stipulations:

 

- You can change/edit/use the files to your heart's content; however, if we make an update, it's your responsibility to put the changes into the new version, not ours.

- We will NOT bend over backwards to accommodate every mod, change, or addition done to the addon! If JimBob's Most Wonderful Changes to the Nodunit/Franze AH-64D (adds item #DF65-34X, dildo in the cockpit seat) doesn't work with the changes that we make, JimBob will have to make the changes on his own. A reasonable effort will be made to incorporate changes that make sense, but the source will remain the baseline version.

- We still maintain control over the fza_ prefix - that means if you add a weapon not in the package, you need to use your own prefix and not ours.

 

I cannot say whether or not we'll be back with this project or in the same state, but I'm trying to leave the door open in case we change our minds. If we don't come back to it, then at the very least the community can do what they desire with it.

 

So, without further ado: AH-64D v1.42 Source files

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I want to state for the record that this is no longer my model but a community model.
That means anyone can download it and permission is hereby granted to all that wish to add it their mod or alter it, and if you should so wish you may even port it to other games.

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12 minutes ago, franze said:

After some debate, I've updated the front page with v1.42, which has some small improvements over last spring's version - though nothing groundbreaking. With that, I'm also releasing the source files, to which I am adding the following stipulations:

 

- You can change/edit/use the files to your heart's content; however, if we make an update, it's your responsibility to put the changes into the new version, not ours.

- We will NOT bend over backwards to accommodate every mod, change, or addition done to the addon! If JimBob's Most Wonderful Changes to the Nodunit/Franze AH-64D (adds item #DF65-34X, dildo in the cockpit seat) doesn't work with the changes that we make, JimBob will have to make the changes on his own. A reasonable effort will be made to incorporate changes that make sense, but the source will remain the baseline version.

- We still maintain control over the fza_ prefix - that means if you add a weapon not in the package, you need to use your own prefix and not ours.

 

I cannot say whether or not we'll be back with this project or in the same state, but I'm trying to leave the door open in case we change our minds. If we don't come back to it, then at the very least the community can do what they desire with it.

 

So, without further ado: AH-64D v1.42 Source files

 

So whats the go with adding such features to another mod and giving credit where it due? I've loved some of your features and thought they'd be awesome in my F35 mod, then again your tech is way ahead of my knowledge so not even sure I could do something that good.

 

If not allowed all good mate, if allowed all good mate.

 

Cheers. 

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A very generous move guys-it will ensure your amazing and unique mod is always kept alive! 

 

@Sacha Oropeza- cant wait to try your changes.

 

Now we just need a monocle for our helmets :)

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38 minutes ago, xxgetbuck123 said:

 

So whats the go with adding such features to another mod and giving credit where it due? I've loved some of your features and thought they'd be awesome in my F35 mod, then again your tech is way ahead of my knowledge so not even sure I could do something that good.

 

If not allowed all good mate, if allowed all good mate.

 

Cheers. 

 

That's pretty much always been allowed, keeping in mind that the scripts aren't simple to understand! I would have written more documentation on how things are done but just didn't get around to it.

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Add this moment to the long list of just how awesome the Arma community really is!

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3 hours ago, franze said:

 

That's pretty much always been allowed, keeping in mind that the scripts aren't simple to understand! I would have written more documentation on how things are done but just didn't get around to it.

 

Awesome mate! Yea your scripts are pretty hardcore and I don't intend to just copy and paste over and expect to work, mainly look to for inspiration and see whether it would be compatible etc.

 

Either way thanks for the hasty reply! 

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Just got around to downloading this, and I can't believe I didn't do so sooner.  It's a perfect semi-sim experience for the Apache, which is something I've been missing since Apache Air Assault.

 

I was poking through the arming menu scripts, and added a couple new textures (weathered and clean birds from B company, 1-3 ATKHB of the 3rd Infantry Division in Iraq in 2003 as well as a semi-what if scheme for the heck of it) and expanded the arming menu to be compatible with the CUP ammo MTVRs, RHS ammo HEMTTs, and vehicle ammo containers from BIS.  I'd be glad to send them to you if you so desire.

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