Ak-47 and ak-74

[JJonth Cheeky Monkey 1]

I know in real life the AK-47 fires a 7.62 X 39mm round and the AK-74 fires the 5.45 X 39.5mm round, but in game what is the difference between the 2 types, I personally can't see anything different like recoil, ROF, damage, accuracy they both seem the same.

[nyles 11]

I don't think that there is any difference between those weapons, and if there is, I have still yet to find it. I really hoped that 1.75 and now 1.85 would have eventually done some changes to damage values. I'd prefer a less accuracy but stronger damage type of weapon system.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">5. This is my personal view on how I would like to see the damage system in flashpoint. I'm trying to not use precise damage values but more roughly the shots needed on certain locations to kill. In my opinion, a headshot should always be fatal, no matter what weapon used. I'm excluding other hit locations than chest and legs here, because I'm not familiar with how many different locations there are in total. Its pretty obvious though, that a hit to arm should not take minimal damage only, because of them blocking the chest very often and thus creating the illusion of players surviving tons of chest shots. If possible to check wether a strong bullet would hit multiple locations (i.e. arm+chest), this should be implemented, might be complicated though or even already in the game, dunno.

Furthermore, I'm limiting this to infantry weapons and co-axial mgs only. I will not mention different types of the same weapon in the 'weapons' section, as I assume it's pretty obvious that an ak74 should do the same damage like an ak74su, that an ak47 should do the same like an ak47cz and that an m16 should do the same like a xms.

Anyways, here is the list, note that it is mainly to show which weapons should belong into the same damage category and not differ in-game:

(calibre / hits to chest / hits to legs / using weapons)

.50cal + 12.7x109 / 1 / 1 / m2, m2east, m2 co-axial + nsv co-axial

7.62x51 + 7.62x54 / 1 / 1-2 / g3, fal, m60, m21, m240 co-axial + svd, pk, r700

7.62x39 / 1 / 2-3 / ak47

5.56x45 / 1-2 / 2-3 / m16, steyr aug, g36

5.45x39 / 1-3 / 2-3 / ak74

7,62x25 + .45 / 2-3 / 2-4 / tt33 + colt1911 (not done yet)

9x19 + 7.65x17/ 2-4 / 2-4 / mp5, bizon, cz75, 92fs, glock17 + skorpion

There are some other nice ideas, which i want to adress together with this list: Someday, I had a nice experience when i rammed a vehicle. The ai driver disembarked the moment I did so, but he was faster and shot me in the legs. I was forced prone and shot him in the chest, killing him, with my trusty beretta. The experience of the auto prone was great and added a lot of atmosphere. My idea about this is that there should be a 70% chance for any hit and not only certain leg hits to knock you off your feet. Unlike some leg shots which won't let you stand up again, you are free to do so with those regular hits though. It just should knock you off your feet. Maybe some modifiers on how high the chance is, could be given according to the type of weapon. A 9mm pistol for example would be less likely to knock you off compared to a chest shot with a m16. Furthermore any hit, should cause a little red flickering on the screen. Very often you fall on the floor face down, only to realize a second or two later that you were shot due to the lack of hit effects. Those suggested new hit effects, combined with the above mentioned chance for any hit to knock you off your feet, would be very nice additions.

Now some comments on the weapon list on top of this point, especially in terms of balance. As stated above the exact values for the damage were avoided and instead only displayed with the average amount of hits to certain locations that will kill you. The Russian weapons might seem a little underpowered, compared to other weapons, but in reality they were a tad less effective due to calibre size. However, I still chose hit counts that are very close to each other and only noticeable that you will sometimes need one hit more with the russian weapons. Most of the time, the needed count will be the same though. To compare this, at least in terms of the standard weapons m16 and ak74, the ak offers full auto mode for human players, which should already even things out. However, AI does not benefit from this, what I would like to change. At close ranges, AI should more likely use full auto or longer random burts with aks. This alone would balance things out already.<span id='postcolor'>

[Jamesia 0]

oooooo right.

I just presume that AK-74 is better 'cos the infantry have it and its a higher number

[JJonth Cheeky Monkey 1]

What about the Mac 11, fires the .380 ACP (9 X 18 mm, is it?), should be teh same as the 9 X 19 i suppose. But that table does sound about right.

The AKs still all have burst mode, which they shouldn't.

The XM177 fires an older 5.56mm round to the M16A2, this gives it less accuracy, power and range so it should do a bit less damage.

M16A2 fires the SS109, like the AUG, G36.

XM177 fires the older M193 cartridge (i think it was that could be the M196 though, anyway) because it was based on the older M16A1, not the M16A2. The M4 and M4A1 are both based on the M16A2 and M16A3 which fires the SS109, these are much more accurate and powerful.

[JJonth Cheeky Monkey 1]

The AK-74 should have way less recoil too, you get about the same recoil from a .22 as you do with a 5.45 X 39.5 mm. Also the ROF is a bit higher, 650, AK-47 fires at 600. Also the 7.62 X 39 mm it fired wasn't that powerful (should be about the same as the XM177's M193 or whatever), it was designed for ranges of below 300m. AK-74 has much higher velocity and the round deforms as it hits the target, like a soft nosed (great stopping power for un armoured targets).

[dayglow 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (cheeky monkey @ Oct. 26 2002,09:03)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">What about the Mac 11, fires the .380 ACP (9 X 18 mm, is it?), should be teh same as the 9 X 19 i suppose. But that table does sound about right.

The AKs still all have burst mode, which they shouldn't.

The XM177 fires an older 5.56mm round to the M16A2, this gives it less accuracy, power and range so it should do a bit less damage.

M16A2 fires the SS109, like the AUG, G36.

XM177 fires the older M193 cartridge (i think it was that could be the M196 though, anyway) because it was based on the older M16A1, not the M16A2. The M4 and M4A1 are both based on the M16A2 and M16A3 which fires the SS109, these are much more accurate and powerful.<span id='postcolor'>

Are the 2 different cartridge both 5.56x45? Couldn't you then just load the new bullet into the rifle, or are they incompatable in someway.

COLINMAN

[JJonth Cheeky Monkey 1]

You could fire the old M193 cartridge from an M16A2 with no probs as it is lower power, but if you loaded SS109s in an XM177 then it would cause problems as it is not designed to take such high powered cartridges. Anyway yes they are both 5.56 X 45mm.

[Joe_1911 0]

uh I don't know who told you that...

The XM-1772 and M16A2 use different recievers, mainly the carry handle is the difference, the XM-177 has one apeture [sp?] while the M16A2 has 2 on its rear site. there are NO internal differences on the receiver, the parts that were changed were the hammer, bolt , diconnect, etc.. the XM-177 is essentially a M16A1 with a round, shortened hand guard, tele stock and a what looks like a 10 inch barrel and A2 flash surpressr [ though the real XM-177E2 had a 11.5 inch barrel and a long flash surpressor]. They can both take any rounds they want, some dirty them quicker, some don't. there is no round one M16 can handle and another can't.

[JJonth Cheeky Monkey 1]

Sorry that post is a bit misleading, the gun can handel the round its, the barrel in the older M16s that can cause problems

The older M16 series, inc

M16

M16A1

CAR-15

XM177E1

XM177E2 fire the old M193 cartridge, loading the much more powerfull SS109 (now NATOs standard) will cause problems(not safety, but effectiveness). Its not to do with the insides of the Reciever, but the barrel, the older M16s have 1 twist every 12 inches, newer M16s have 1 twist in 7 inches, firing the new SS109 (M855) round from an old M16 would be unstable and the round would drift sideways, giving you 1-2 feet grouping at 100 yards, which is bad, but the M193 would give you 2 inch grouping because the rifling is not as fast in the older M16s.

The new M16 series

M16A2

M16A3

M4

M4A1

The M16A2 is just an M16 modified to fire the new SS109 round among other modifications. And the old M16s did have two sights on the rear one for low light the other for day time use which is also better for getting more precise shots.

Hope that explains it!

[JJonth Cheeky Monkey 1]

Heres th list

The M16A2 rifle is a product improvement of the M16A1 rifle. The improvements are:

1. a heavier, stiffer barrel than the barrel of the M16A1;

2. a redesigned handguard, using two identical halves, with a round contour which is sturdier and provides a better grip when holding the rifle;

3. a new buttstock and pistol grip made of a tougher injection moldable plastic that provides much greater resistance to breakage;

4. an improved rear sight which can be easily adjusted for windage and range;

5. a modified upper receiver design to deflect ejected cartridges, and preclude the possibility of the ejected cartridges hitting the face of a left-handed firer;

6. a burst control device, that limits the number of rounds fired in the automatic mode to three per trigger pull, which increases accuracy while reducing ammunition expenditure;

7. a muzzle compensator, designed to reduce position disclosure and improve controllability and accuracy in both burst and rapid semi-automatic fire;

9.a heavier barrel with a 1 in 7 twist to fire NATO standard SS 109 type (M855) ammunition which is also fired from the M249 Squad Automatic Weapon (SAW). This further increases the effective range and penetration of the rifle cartridge. The M16A2 will also shoot the older M193 ammunition designed for a 1 in 12 twist.

Note the bottom one

[Placebo 29]

Well the original question was Opf related, conversation now really isn't so OT is probably the best place