Visual Upgrade – Feedback

[teabagginpeople 398]

Before I say anything I'll let it be known. I do not want the old lighting back. Let's get that clear.

 

I have two monitors, two rigs, two separate locations. 

 

From what I see there is a white wash OF SORTS. These observations are with time of day aside.  Because with right time of day and weather factors. it can look realistically amazing.

 

On the expensive 27inch, 144hz 1440p monitor ( trying to factor in changes in hardware obviously higher quality screen and better gpu) it looks less washed-out definitely more attractive no real need to fiddle settings.  and the nights lighting is more bareable.( Having expensive shit isn't a realistic solution).

 

On the lesser 1080p screen and gtx 970 gpu it looks more washed out. Fiddling around with settings can only correct so much of this. 

 

Here in lies the problem.  In order to tackle this washout on the 1080p monitor using both in game and monitor settings.  It has a bad knock on for nights. Because while lowering the washout it is now leaving a black hole because of the shadows and night light issues.

 

Now I'm not saying hey make nights all easy to see unrealistic. I don't even want this.But truth is the nights are not right because devs have not due to time restraints roadmap or manpower  tackled the issue. they admitted there is an issue there to whatever degree so pretending one doesn't exist is not an answer .

 

Unfortunately this has become a Backburner issue. It shouldn't have been allowed to. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Beagle 684]

I gave it some time to settle, but the issue with night scenes are still there. Colours are way to prominent at night. Red, yellow and blue cars seems to shien bright in their accordign colour. The same goes fpr Roadsigns...they seem to glow in colours at night as soon as the sligtes kind of ambient light from moon or just before dawn is present.

[Variable 322]

After all these months, can we get a reply from BIS stating what they plan to do with the terrible night lighting? There's a lot of related negative feedback on this thread. If there are no plans to address that we would like to hear it as well.

[Grumpy Old Man 3540]

Moonless night, can easily spot colors.

 

 

Cheers

[Alwarren 2765]

2 hours ago, Grumpy Old Man said:

Moonless night, can easily spot colors.

 

You can spot strong, bright colors, even though they should be as much in shadow as the rest. This is not how reality works, it doesn't matter how bright a color is, if there is no light to reflect from it, there is no color.

No matter how one turns it, the night lighting is off.

[Vasily.B 529]

I wonder about some sweetFX, ENB, or anything similar. Any ideas? Before trying googling, i just wanna ask if someone tested some good sample.

[Antilochos 106]

And still no response from BI?

BI, please, even if you're not going to change anything about this subject, let this be known. Any answer (even a "we don't know yet") is better then no communication at all.

Or did I missed something?

[Cosmo_D41 117]

Just a small reminder, that there is still no official response on the feedback they wanted (especially regarding night times).
And still no proper documentation on the new light settings for terrain makers. That little stuff in the wiki explains nothing...

[.kju 3239]

indeed 

[Alwarren 2765]

 

This image shows exactly what is wrong with the current night lighting. The white logo on the scope is shining like a beacon while it should not be visible at all because it is in the shadow of a twilight evening just as the rest of the scope, but due to the weird color table, the gap between black and white is artificially widened to a degree where it just becomes ridiculous. That means that shadow always look like black holes even in a moonlit night since they are artificially "enhanced"

 

PEASE, BIS, at the very least release some updated documentation on this so that one of the community can write a patch to fix this horrible night lighting mess, if you don't want to do it yourselves.

 

[HeroesandvillainsOS 1504]

35 minutes ago, Alwarren said:

 

This image shows exactly what is wrong with the current night lighting. The white logo on the scope is shining like a beacon while it should not be visible at all because it is in the shadow of a twilight evening just as the rest of the scope, but due to the weird color table, the gap between black and white is artificially widened to a degree where it just becomes ridiculous. That means that shadow always look like black holes even in a moonlit night since they are artificially "enhanced"

 

PEASE, BIS, at the very least release some updated documentation on this so that one of the community can write a patch to fix this horrible night lighting mess, if you don't want to do it yourselves.

 

I will say, although this is probably not useful (I don't have a keen eye like the rest of you) that Lythium and Chernarus Redux both show (to me) lighting tweaks can be done with this current engine, and maps can still have that special, pre-Apex feeling.

 

Has anyone reached out to Greenberet40 or AxiosODST to see if perhaps they've discovered some methods or approaches they could share that could benefit the community?

[Alwarren 2765]

46 minutes ago, HeroesandvillainsOS said:

I will say, although this is probably not useful (I don't have a keen eye like the rest of you) that Lythium and Chernarus Redux both show (to me) lighting tweaks can be done with this current engine, and maps can still have that special, pre-Apex feeling.

 

No idea about CR, but yes, Lythium has the old night lighting and it looks great. However, the author has asked "not to steal" it. But this shows that decent night lighting IS possible, and all the more infuriating that there is not sufficient documentation.

[HeroesandvillainsOS 1504]

38 minutes ago, Alwarren said:

 

No idea about CR, but yes, Lythium has the old night lighting and it looks great. However, the author has asked "not to steal" it. But this shows that decent night lighting IS possible, and all the more infuriating that there is not sufficient documentation.

I understand if he doesn't want people ripping his work, and although I obviously can't attest to a private interaction regarding coding techniques, I've interacted with Greenberet40 before and he's been really great (I needed unblocked PBO's of the map for ALiVE indexing purposes and he was excellent about it. A pleasure, really).

 

Couldn't hurt to ask. What him and his team did with Lythium is really astounding.

[Cosmo_D41 117]

2 hours ago, HeroesandvillainsOS said:

Couldn't hurt to ask. What him and his team did with Lythium is really astounding.

 But isnt that the basic problem? Its great that the community has so many great people that create fantastic stuff. But when an update leads to a situation like this where whisdom is a privilege of few and they protect the little things they found out, thats no good way for a modding community. And this is no offence to the modders, but to Bohemia who could easily prevent such problems by giving us some proper feedback, documentations or even templates (like Europe light settings) to help everyone.

Especially with such a basic element that influence nearly every part of gameplay and already led to some modding-groups to leave their great projects and arma behind unfinished (e.g. 2017mod/Bamburgh or XCam-Taunus).

 

And well...its been over a year now since the implementation of the new lightning. By now BI should know how their own stuff works (at least i hope so).

[Vasily.B 529]

Its a real shame how developing of this game is going (without documentation of such major changes), But isnt there any possibility to create something like... ENB or smth similiar to add some filter on the image to recreate pre-Visual Update look? Did someone tried it already? If not, i can try ..... But it will take much time.

[joostsidy 682]

2 hours ago, Vasily.B said:

Its a real shame how developing of this game is going (without documentation of such major changes), But isnt there any possibility to create something like... ENB or smth similiar to add some filter on the image to recreate pre-Visual Update look? Did someone tried it already? If not, i can try ..... But it will take much time.

I don't know what ENB is, but postprocessing effects (filtering the image) cannot fix it. I spent hours on it. The wrong visuals are because of interactions. Some things are some times too dark, but you can't just make it brighter, because some things, some times are also too bright at the same time.

[joostsidy 682]

I suspect that BI hasn't decided yet what the definitive lighting will be and that's why they are silent. For many weird looking stuff in the game there is the choice for BI of adapting the official lighting or adapting the textures/materials to fix some of the issues and they haven't decided yet. They could also decide to do nothing of course and cut their losses on what I expect is also an unexpected disappointment within the company.

 

[Alwarren 2765]

7 hours ago, joostsidy said:

I suspect that BI hasn't decided yet what the definitive lighting will be and that's why they are silent.

 

APEX is out for over a year now, and the visual upgrade was IIRC already present in a patch before that, so it's a bit late to not having decided what the definitive lighting will be.

They don't even need to fix that, the community could take care of it IF there was adequate documentation.

[Vasily.B 529]

17 hours ago, Alwarren said:

 

APEX is out for over a year now, and the visual upgrade was IIRC already present in a patch before that, so it's a bit late to not having decided what the definitive lighting will be.

They don't even need to fix that, the community could take care of it IF there was adequate documentation.

So, should I prepare petition for everyone to sign to get this documenatation? Is any game developer reading this? Last time, when there was posts-storm about documentation was around 3 months ago, and still noone reacted? Please.... Who i shall contact to ask for this documantation?

[Uro 220]

19 hours ago, Alwarren said:

 

APEX is out for over a year now, and the visual upgrade was IIRC already present in a patch before that, so it's a bit late to not having decided what the definitive lighting will be.

They don't even need to fix that, the community could take care of it IF there was adequate documentation.

 

16 Months since I asked for Official documentation on the lighting, they also haven't even replied to @PuFu 's request for diffuse/AO baseline bake settings for buildings under the new lighting yet so I wouldn't get your hopes up :)

[Alwarren 2765]

I'll keep annoying them... I can be VERY annoying :)

[Antilochos 106]

Hey BI, we love you guys and the game you produced.

Still, not every aspect of the game is that great and like we let known here, we don't enjoy the new lighting (saying that the old one was already something we like, so as far as we know not asking for something impossible).

 

We are still waiting for a response on this subject. Why does BI replay on almost every subject (wich is great by the way), but not on this one?

Like I said before, even if you're not able or just not willing to put any more effort into this aspect of the game, please let us know. Any answer is better than totally  no answer.

Thank you.

[Dwarden 1124]

i know it's been ages since i said WIP and same about the documentation

 

i just want to say it's not abandoned yet (i know enduring the wait is unbearable but i can't speed this up)

 

[lappihuan 178]

appreciate the headsup, while we wait for further changes and a better documentation, it would be extremly helpfull to push the diag_lightNewLoad command into the public diag.exe

this way community creators could more effective fiddle with the lighting in realtime.

[FirstPanic 39]

On 12.10.2017 at 2:05 PM, dwarden said:

i know it's been ages since i said WIP and same about the documentation

 

i just want to say it's not abandoned yet (i know enduring the wait is unbearable but i can't speed this up)

 

 

Thanks for the update... good to see that you guys are aware of the community feedback and feeling.

Just a short comment: 40% player loss in the last 10 month (see official Steam statistcs)... maybe it's time to do different.

 

FirstPanic