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JojoTheSlayer

Player AI Command: Now that "Wait" is gone, can we get Retreat instead?

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If people havent noticed the Player AI command Menu 1 Option 7 "Wait" was removed from the game a while back and 8 "Find Cover" and 9 "Next Waypoint" was moved down a number to close the gap.

 

This however also means that the Move menu nr 9 is currently available for another command!

My suggestion would be to insert a Retreat command that would disengage player commanded AI from contact and follow the player until another "Return to formation" command was given and it would bring the Ai back into normal scanning and such. While I am not a coder. I really think this wouldnt be that hard to do at this time.

 

My basic concept outline would be something like this:
Menu 1.Move : Option 9.Retreat

0020F5C680F4343EB1196105F7D732BF4EB50F72

 

Something Interesting! 20.04.16

I have incorporated a custom version of WindWalkers wwAi Mod into my VAC Voice Command Profile:

WorkShop Mission: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=179904963 (Instruction for new voice commands in Briefing)

VAC Download Site: http://www.dwvac.com/

Direct profile download link: http://www.dwvac.com/vac_phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=858&p=3002#p3002

 

qf5r2oy.jpg

 

Other:

I have added Credits for Windwalkers content in text file under the custom mod, the patch notes regarding the addition (both forum and txt file), Credit notes in the Steam Workshop VAC Training Mission and the new command menu options image. While I dont think Windwalker would mind the overall changes, considering I even named one of the commands after what he tried to get into the mod before 1,58 made it possible (Force Move), I will not try to get the update mod separately uploaded to Armaholic or similar. I will only stay in the VAC download profile because I have not been in contact with Windwalker at this time. If he has an issue with this and people know him. Please ask him to contact me. If he wants to upload the changes to Armaholic or similar he is free to do so.

 

Patch Notes:

MAJOR UPDATE! v3.10 wwAi Custom Mod
But I am keeping it separate from v3.09 because of the mod included. (Using the mod is of course optional and Single Player only at this point in time and it needs CBA_A3) This mod however enables the player to use orders like "Retreat", "AutoDanger OFF", "Fire on my lead" (shoot to trigger "open fire" etc), "Clear building" and "Return to NORMAL" among other commands. Yes, the commands actually do what it sound like they would do. These, while not perfect yet because I could only get it to work with the whole squad rather than just selected ones, is a game changer in regards to commanding Ai as a player in Arma 3 and I think you will see similar in loads of other Arma 3 settings regarding Ai.

The Mod included in v3.10 is a modified version of WindWalker wwAi 2.15 mod called v2.15_Jojo1.
You will not find that version on Armaholic etc because I have not gotten in contact with WindWalker and can therefor not publish it in that manner as a update to hes vanilla v2.15. Anyway, a Image tells more than a zillion words so click the image link above.



Patch notes:
Added full support for custom WindWalker wwAi mod, with extra commands etc.
Added "Color assign Color" commands (Blue assign Red) (You still have "Change color to color" commands)
*Added a few more High Command orders.

*After creating more waypoints for a HC unit. Hover mouse over WP and use voice command to change the waitpoint. Example (all), "Unit search and destroy", "Unit wait", "Unit cycle", "Unit cancel waypoint" and "Unit Guard" (back to default). Intended to make it faster to setup complex plans. Hold ctrl and add several WPs. Hover mouse over first WP and use "Unit wait" (stops the unit there for 1 ingame hour). Hover mouse over last WP and "Unit search and destroy". When you want to trigger the plan later. Just hover your mouse over the wait WP and say "Unit cancel waypoint". For more on High Command in VAC, see the VACbuilder High Command.

 

Old post content.

The AI selected will do a few checks before the retreat integrated script or similar is executed.

 

Checks:

1: Anyone in selected units a vehicle? If yes, use *formation column instead of file formation while retreat.

2: Are there any LMG users in the selected units? If yes, they do suppressive fire for 5 seconds.

3: Do any none LMG infantry have smoke capabilities? If yes, they pop smoke towards last known e before moving.

*= (File formation for infantry to get them to follow leaders path and not collide with other objects. Column to do the same, but avoid vehicles crashing into each other)

 

Actions:

A: LMG, vehicles (with weapons) or if none another random infantry does suppression for ca 5-10 seconds.

B: Others with smoke throw or pop one. Vehicles do both if they also have weapons. Suppression inf does not.

C: None suppression units are put into ignore everything, fastest/sprint speed, copy leader stance and mirror (if possible) players stamina, file formation and starts running after the already fleeing player :) commander.

D: Suppression units do the same after the 5-10 seconds or out of ammo, but also get a slight artificial speed boost.

 

Once the player is far enough from the action he feels its okay. He orders the "retreating" AI behind him to "return to formation" which resets their "ignore everything" back to normal scan and so on.

 

Simple, strait forward and would solve a huge issue many Arma gamers have with the game.

One could also make this or similar concept into its own new WayPoint selection as well for the Editor.

 

Thoughts?!?

 

----------------------

 

Visual extrapolation of the subject:

While not totally the same. I figured out way back that if you flipped formations settings during "return to formation" commands. You could some times trick the Ai to partially ignore auto danger. In that context I made a combo order for my voice profile, back in 2010, that partially shows the basic outline of the idea above in a older video and how it would work in practice.

 

( Note: Ai voice in the video is allot louder than mine, early video making mistakes and sorry about that. But the important part is the visuals seen between the contact and retreating. )

 

Player Ai Retreat Script via Trigger.

RetreatPlayer.sqf
-----------------------
Place repeatable radio trigger in editor.
Add in On Activation: nul = [group player] execVM "RetreatPlayer.sqf";
Scripts disables AutoDanger etc for 2 mins, then returns the Ai back to normal.

Known Issues:

  • A) setUnitPos does not work if the unit is under player control. Ergo it does not work at all in this script.The reason its still there is to show what is needed if the player have ordered the Ai prone before using the "retreat" script.
  • B ) Injuries that slow down units "might" slow down other units behind him. They refuse to run past.Giving new return to formation order might cause faster troops to run back to the slow one to reform the formation with them.
  •  C) Orders are not executed by Ai before the players ingame voice is done talking. Aka giving the virtual orders. Which includes giving a "no target" command to every individual unit in the players controls.
  •  D) Ai will usually walk if ordered to go somewhere, but will sprint if they are in formation following a running player.

 

Pros:

  •  A) All script commands are overridden by a player command afterwards. This includes target commands while the script is on.
  •  B ) Does not seem to cause any serious unwanted effects or bugs.

End Notes.

 

 

Copy Paste version of the script.

(Based on Old_painless version from Dev editor thread.)


hintSilent "AutoDanger OFF";

{
  _x commandWatch objNull;
  _x disableAI "AUTOTARGET";
  _x disableAI "TARGET";
  _x disableAI "SUPPRESSION";
  _x disableAI "AUTOCOMBAT";
  _x setUnitPos "AUTO";
  _x setBehaviour "AWARE";

  _x doFollow player;
  _x setFormation "FILE";

} forEach units group player;

Sleep 120;

{   
  _x commandWatch objNull;
  _x EnableAI "AUTOTARGET";
  _x EnableAI "TARGET";
  _x EnableAI "SUPPRESSION";
  _x EnableAI "AUTOCOMBAT";
 
} forEach units group player;

hintSilent "Ai Normal";

Sleep 3;
hintSilent "";

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In the feedback tracker there are lots of requests for this kind of command (disengage player commanded AI from contact), unfortunately they have never been taken up by BIS and the feedback tracker is now unavailable.

 

My personal opinion is that your checks and actions are unnecessarily detailed and out of balance with the other behavior modes as far as engine level AI goes. As scripted or modded behavior they sound cool and useful.

 

So not an original idea, still, a good idea, but low chance of it being implemented.

 

Here is a forum thread about a similar idea:

https://forums.bistudio.com/topic/140468-new-move-command-needed-ai-do-not-move-well-when-in-danger-mode/

 

The best thing we got is a new script command that disables auto-combat behaviour of your AI mates, enabling you to disengage and retreat: disable AI: "AUTOCOMBAT" - disables autonomous switching to COMBAT when in danger Available only since Arma 3 v1.56.

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Agreed.

Disengage/retreat command is really missing.

However, I think it would be very difficult to set:

Retreat and just run following the leader? Or retreat while firing back? (Like one fires while the other one retreats then switch)

For example, if I lead a squad and meet tanks with no AT soldier, I would order to retreat - just run for your life.

But if it is against infantry, I would order to keep firing back while retreating.

It's very difficult to set the whole thing together.

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My personal opinion is that your checks and actions are unnecessarily detailed and out of balance with the other behavior modes as far as engine level AI goes. As scripted or modded behavior they sound cool and useful.

 

So not an original idea, still, a good idea, but low chance of it being implemented.

 

Like I said, I am not a coder, but the outline with such details gives a good idea of what is needed for it to practically work in actual gameplay. If a coder can make 90% of it happen way more effective (or even without the more cinematic aspects like suppression and smoke). More power too him, but I wanted to explain it in a way anyone would understand the concept. Disengaging and retreating from the enemy is the core important aspect. My concept is just one such idea outline that could work well.

 

Well, I know its not a original or new idea, the video is from 2010 after all...

BUT the difference is that now and only now there is a opening in the 1.Move menu which wasnt there before!

There is now room in that menu to implement something like this that has everything to do with the Move menu concept in the player AI command structure. Big difference compared to 2013 (the link, where I am the 5th poster btw :D ) when "wait" was still part of it and all 1-9 numbers were used. That is why I am bringing it up, "again" now.

 

Retreat and just run following the leader? Or retreat while firing back? (Like one fires while the other one retreats then switch)

For example, if I lead a squad and meet tanks with no AT soldier, I would order to retreat - just run for your life.

But if it is against infantry, I would order to keep firing back while retreating.

It's very difficult to set the whole thing together.

 

Yes, a full retreat. Once minor actions are done. The Ai wont stop following the leader until the PLAYER chooses it.

In real life you would most likely have a peal off and a "rally rally" type run after a while or a bounding retreat, but that is not practical in a Arma setting with AI under your command. With this rather simple ability you would have an option to retreat in a semi realistic, but game practical way. Unlike now were you are more or less forced to fight and win regardless of you stumbling on a platoon with your 8 man squad, or just lose all your manpower and personally flee.

 

If you are facing something you can combat and win. You wouldnt use the retreat command, because attacking is not retreating. Secondly, all the commands can be given to one or several fire teams. You could for example retreat will all your infantry in blue team, but sacrifice your AT units in red team to face off with the tank and maybe get a lucky shot or similar. Instead of the AT guy missing and both teams dying, like they usually do now.

 

No, I dont agree on it being difficult. In a game you need something that does the mix between being semi realistic, but also practical. Lacking a ability retreat from a contact you cant win is a huge flaw in the game that can be fixed rather easily in my view and now, with "wait" removed, there is an opening to do so.

 

 

Thanks for both of your inputs. Maybe the thread will be spotted by A3 Devs as well.

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At least, a full retreat would be good indeed.

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This can be achieved with scripts in 1.56 - we managed to figure out how in the AI thread in Dev Branch after BI introduced disabling of AutoCombat:

 

https://forums.bistudio.com/topic/150499-ai-discussion-dev-branch/page-190#entry2989325

 

Not as good as a proper command, but better than before

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This can be achieved with scripts in 1.56 - we managed to figure out how in the AI thread in Dev Branch after BI introduced disabling of AutoCombat:

https://forums.bistudio.com/topic/150499-ai-discussion-dev-branch/page-190#entry2989325

Not as good as a proper command, but better than before

 

Yeah and I copied that script btw :D, but I am talking about "this", to "this":

0020F5C680F4343EB1196105F7D732BF4EB50F72

Edit: Just added the concept image to the OP as well.

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This can be achieved with scripts in 1.56 - we managed to figure out how in the AI thread in Dev Branch after BI introduced disabling of AutoCombat:

 

I took a look into that for myself in regards to Player Ai Commanding and I made a slight modified script and a bunch of tests and found out its a pretty decent prof of concept that WORKS more or less always. While not a 100%,... Because there is no way to add an actual "return to formation" order via scripting as far as I can see. So a player has to give that order as well IF, and only if, the Ai isnt already in "follow leader/return to formation default" mode, but the Ai player command system already has that (Menu 1-1) so adding that something ala seen below or better or whatever wont be an issue for BIS if they choose to address this lack of retreat type problem in Arma.

 

 

bla == {_x doFollow player;} forEach units group player;      Works as "return to formation" and therefor fixed that issue.

           Maybe its just me, but doing doFollow BEFORE setFormation with a new formation still seems to have an effect.

 

Still cant get setUnitPos to work for player Ai though so if the Ai is prone, they will crawl to you. LoL

 

Pros and Known issues / Script.

RetreatPlayer.sqf

-----------------------

Place repeatable radio trigger in editor.

Add in On Activation: nul = [group player] execVM "RetreatPlayer.sqf";

Scripts disables AutoDanger etc for 2 mins, then returns the Ai back to normal.

Known Issues:

  • A) setUnitPos does not work if the unit is under player control. Ergo it does not work at all in this script.The reason its still there is to show what is needed if the player have ordered the Ai prone before using the "retreat" script.
  • B ) Injuries that slow down units "might" slow down other units behind him. They refuse to run past.Giving new return to formation order might cause faster troops to run back to the slow one to reform the formation with them.
  •  C) Orders are not executed by Ai before the players ingame voice is done talking. Aka giving the virtual orders. Which includes giving a "no target" command to every individual unit in the players controls.
  •  D) Ai will usually walk if ordered to go somewhere, but will sprint if they are in formation following a running player.

 

Pros:

  •  A) All script commands are overridden by a player command afterwards. This includes target commands while the script is on.
  •  B ) Does not seem to cause any serious unwanted effects or bugs.

End Notes.

 

 

Copy Paste version of the script.

(Based on Old_painless version from Dev editor thread.)

hintSilent "AutoDanger OFF";

{

  _x commandWatch objNull;

  _x disableAI "AUTOTARGET";

  _x disableAI "TARGET";

  _x disableAI "SUPPRESSION";

  _x disableAI "AUTOCOMBAT";

  _x setUnitPos "AUTO";

  _x setBehaviour "AWARE";

  _x doFollow player;

  _x setFormation "FILE";

} forEach units group player;

Sleep 120;

{   

  _x commandWatch objNull;

  _x EnableAI "AUTOTARGET";

  _x EnableAI "TARGET";

  _x EnableAI "SUPPRESSION";

  _x EnableAI "AUTOCOMBAT";

 

} forEach units group player;

hintSilent "Ai Normal";

Sleep 3;

hintSilent "";

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Nice study. I actually did my own mini-menu inspired by WindWalking's (sp?) mod menu. It has just two commands so I can invoke an extremely simple menu. I put the disableAI stuff into menu item "Break contact" and re-enabling the AI brain was "Be Alert". Then having called "Break contact" I would then issue move orders to obtain a retreat setting.

 

I also found that wounded soldiers can hinder an effective move command, I guess because they maintain their internal order in the team even if one unit is wounded. To remedy that, I guess a reordering of the team could work, say a team red with all non-wounded troops, and team blue with wounded ones. That might do the trick to make the non-wounded ones move when told to do so :) 

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Maybe seriously injured AI should automaticly join "team injured"?

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Nice study. I actually did my own mini-menu inspired by WindWalking's  :)

 

I had never heard about that mod for some reason.

Clear houses, unstuck etc etc lots of good commands. Link below for others reading this.

It already solves allot of things already while being perfect for voice commands. The reason I am in process of incorporating its use into my VAC voice command profile. Half done, but ca 200 voice commands to go... Will become v.3.10 I think.

 

The only thing the mod is missing is a functional "Retreat" and a "Force move" order. Example with spots open in the mod:

wwAI Menu, Infantry Commands: "Retreat" command.        Num9 - 1 - 8

wwAI Menu, Infantry Commands: "Force Move" command. Num9 - 1 - 9

 

Both most likely becoming possible now because of 1,56 changes to A2.

However, the problem with what we have at this time in regards to this mod is that the mod enables most order to be given to a individual or a whole fire team. While I think that is doable with the "retreat" or "force move" like stuff. I am not sure how. The mod maker, while its from 2014, wrote he was looking for a "force move" type thing, but evidently he never found it. Maybe he is willing to do an update and look at this.

 

Maybe seriously injured AI should automatically join "team injured"?

 

While I see that as possible. I do not see it as practical. The reason the game doesnt have multi WP as Player Ai command has become pretty evident after using a few mods with those capabilities. While it works for small units or simple commands. You can tell that at times the Ai gets "confused" if its gotten a single move command or a fire team command and you can sort of tell that its falling into a selected formation with its fire team and so on.

 

Point being, "team injured" would be too slow in Arma and just get more people killed.

I actually think that if a check, during a full panic retreat like command, found that one of the Ai was "legs broken" or similar. It would just get a setdamage 1; so that the rest behind him would have a chance to get out of virtual hell, so to speak.

 

Both would be interesting to see though. Who knows, I might be wrong and team injured crawls to safety after 20 mins?

"I am not dead.", "I am getting better..." :D

 

 

--------------------------------------------

 

wwAI Mod: http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=22380

Install: Put @ folder in root A3, put the config folder content in A3 config folder. While ingame press Numpad 9 to gain access to extra command menu. Its pretty cool. :D

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I have incorporated a custom version of WindWalkers wwAi Mod into my VAC Voice Command Profile:

WorkShop Mission: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=179904963 (Instruction for new voice commands in Briefing)

VAC Download Site: http://www.dwvac.com/

Direct profile download link: http://www.dwvac.com/vac_phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=858&p=3002#p3002

 

qf5r2oy.jpg

 

Other:

I have added Credits for Windwalkers content in text file under the custom mod, the patch notes regarding the addition (both forum and txt file), Credit notes in the Steam Workshop VAC Training Mission and the new command menu options image. While I dont think Windwalker would mind the overall changes, considering I even named one of the commands after what he tried to get into the mod before 1,58 made it possible (Force Move), I will not try to get the update mod separately uploaded to Armaholic or similar. I will only stay in the VAC download profile because I have not been in contact with Windwalker at this time. If he has an issue with this and people know him. Please ask him to contact me. If he wants to upload the changes to Armaholic or similar he is free to do so.

 

Patch Notes:

MAJOR UPDATE! v3.10 wwAi Custom Mod
But I am keeping it separate from v3.09 because of the mod included. (Using the mod is of course optional and Single Player only at this point in time and it needs CBA_A3) This mod however enables the player to use orders like "Retreat", "AutoDanger OFF", "Fire on my lead" (shoot to trigger "open fire" etc), "Clear building" and "Return to NORMAL" among other commands. Yes, the commands actually do what it sound like they would do. These, while not perfect yet because I could only get it to work with the whole squad rather than just selected ones, is a game changer in regards to commanding Ai as a player in Arma 3 and I think you will see similar in loads of other Arma 3 settings regarding Ai.

The Mod included in v3.10 is a modified version of WindWalker wwAi 2.15 mod called v2.15_Jojo1.
You will not find that version on Armaholic etc because I have not gotten in contact with WindWalker and can therefor not publish it in that manner as a update to hes vanilla v2.15. Anyway, a Image tells more than a zillion words so click the image link above.



Patch notes:
Added full support for custom WindWalker wwAi mod, with extra commands etc.
Added "Color assign Color" commands (Blue assign Red) (You still have "Change color to color" commands)
*Added a few more High Command orders.

*After creating more waypoints for a HC unit. Hover mouse over WP and use voice command to change the waitpoint. Example (all), "Unit search and destroy", "Unit wait", "Unit cycle", "Unit cancel waypoint" and "Unit Guard" (back to default). Intended to make it faster to setup complex plans. Hold ctrl and add several WPs. Hover mouse over first WP and use "Unit wait" (stops the unit there for 1 ingame hour). Hover mouse over last WP and "Unit search and destroy". When you want to trigger the plan later. Just hover your mouse over the wait WP and say "Unit cancel waypoint". For more on High Command in VAC, see the VACbuilder High Command.

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