Targeting improvements

[x3kj 1247]

Show me then, I would like to see.But merkava 4 LIC is not a future.Neither is black panther and other battle tank.

T72:

 

Its a simple software upgrade when you already have computerized monitors...

 

As oppose to match colors with customization, tank UI should be overall complete package with style and color.

Why are you complaining now then? It has been like this since forever.

 

And since you can propably turn this feature off at a config level per vehicle i dont see why its an issue.

 

you would just lock the target and fire while you keep aim ON the target.

This feature already exists since forever... idk about the handheld launchers, but you can use wireguided mode for rockets in APC's since game release. Just dont lock on and it works that way...

[teddymosart1 40]

Could we get a Tv-sight system for the Huey?

[en3x 209]

 

Why are you complaining now then? It has been like this since forever.

 

 

 

There is difference between discussing and complaining

 

"Giving an opinion is where you are telling someone how you truly feel about something. A complaint is where you hate what's going on. "

 

Thanks for the picture.I guess is difficult because we don't have 3d interiors so we can't have the nice things.

 

However looking down the periscope (which is what aiming with tank is) doesn't show direction of other crewmates.

[Beagle 684]

There is difference between discussing and complaining

 

"Giving an opinion is where you are telling someone how you truly feel about something. A complaint is where you hate what's going on. "

 

Thanks for the picture.I guess is difficult because we don't have 3d interiors so we can't have the nice things.

 

However looking down the periscope (which is what aiming with tank is) doesn't show direction of other crewmates.

In a real modern Battletank, and my experience comes from the 90's and Leopard II A4 and A5, so nothing all to modern, the commander does not look through a periscope but has a screen. Disconnection of optics and the Eye is common since decades, you don't want to look directly through lenses in an environtment full of high power Lasers. Panel screens and augmented and laserprotected optics are the current standard for observation devices. Let's get back to the Leopard II. The commander has his own observation device and it uses a screen for display. He also has a joystick that looks just like an old Thrustmaster fighterstick. He can use the stick to slew his independent observation device and designate targets for the gunner. He can also overide the whole weapon system and slave the gunner sight to his observation device and if necessary, fully substitute the gunner from his commander seat. In short, both the commander and the gunner have full control over the tank turret and weapon system, but the commander can overide the gunner any time.

[da12thMonkey 1943]

Any chance these improvements are gonna include working aiming pippers for cannon and rockets, CCIP and CCRP for bombs as well as radar signatures visible on the HUD for Apex? This would make everyone's life a thousand times easier while manning any kind of aircrafts and is quite honestly way overdue... Anyway tested it quick and it's definitely a step in the right direction.  :)

 

Yeah, seeing the new target lead indicator in action with the Cheetah SPAAG and Wipeout's cannon immediately made me think how great it would be if there was a CCIP indicator that worked on a similar basis.

 

The using the TLI on the Cheetah and watching rounds actually hit what I was aiming at, is immensely satisfying compared to trying to walk tracers ahead of an aircraft and hoping the "locked on" diamond appears at some point so that a few rounds maybe manage to intercept the target.

[xxgetbuck123 945]

Since all these updates seem like they're VBS orientated I would suggest the classic CCIP and CCRP for aircraft, but obviously, when there is time. 

 

You guys are doing a great job for implementation of gunnery systems and FLIR pods. Much needed updates for Arma! Loving it

[.kju 3239]

Related:

• Arma 3 Locking review - suggestions: https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/A3_Locking_Review#Suggestions
• CIT tickets on locking, radar, iff and related aspects: https://forums.bistudio.com/topic/132338-please-review-cit-tickets-on-locking-radar-iff-and-related-aspects-list-inside/

 

Tackling some of these would greatly enhance vehicle based gameplay.

Some also tie into difficulty options and could be consider as part of the currently ongoing update of these.

[en3x 209]

In a real modern Battletank, and my experience comes from the 90's and Leopard II A4 and A5, so nothing all to modern, the commander does not look through a periscope but has a screen. Disconnection of optics and the Eye is common since decades, you dont wannt to look directly through lenses in a envorontment full of high power Lasers. Panel screens and augmented and laserprotected optics are the current standard for obserservation devices. Lets get back to the Leopard, the commander has its own observation device and uses a screen. He also has a joystick that looks just like a old Thrustmasker fighterstick. He can use the stick to slew his independent observation device and designate targets for the gunner. He can also override the whole weapon system and slave the gunner sight to his observation device...and if necessary, fukky substitute the gunner from his commander seat. In short, both the commander and the gunenr have full control over te tank turret and weaposn system, but the commander can overide the gunner any time.

 

I saw this in armata t14 tank.You are right

 

(

)

 

though in this case all 3 sit parallel.

 

On topic thought.I think on modern tank gunner view don't have this indicators.Yes it may have secondary

display, yeah it can be cycled through displays, or it may be mechanical like x3 showed on older tanks.

 

If designers of tanks decided to make firing GUI clear with reticle, and FCS subsystems I think it makes

sense that this abstract reticles can be toggled on and off.

[inlesco 233]

YES!! This is a very welcome addition. Great work, BIS! As with anything in Arma and its community, there'll always be some "opposers" to the new ideas.

I'd say, the greatest thing to handle such people is Arma's flexibility - and if you can toggle on/off all these life-easing little things, it's even better.

 

Keep up the great work, guys!

[dr. hladik 231]

Since all these updates seem like they're VBS orientated I would suggest the classic CCIP and CCRP for aircraft, but obviously, when there is time. 

 

You guys are doing a great job for implementation of gunnery systems and FLIR pods. Much needed updates for Arma! Loving it

 

No, it has nothing to do with VBS.

CCIP is work in progress (it's not easy to compute for bombs....)

[dr. hladik 231]

... He can also override the whole weapon system and slave the gunner sight to his observation device...and if necessary, fukky substitute the gunner from his commander seat. In short, both the commander and the gunenr have full control over te tank turret and weaposn system, but the commander can overide the gunner any time.

 

Yes, this was also considered, however we also need to show, when AI waits for "fire" command and controls overriding might lead to trolling...

[reyhard 2082]

T72:

it's gun indicator for artillery firing. it doesn't show where commander is pointing & it's only mounted on gunner station. almost all russian vehicles prior T90A have it designed this way. later, they started to add turret indicator on digital monitors for both commander & gunner.

[Callsign 128]

Re: new aircraft targeting pod view - great start, but some improvements I think I'd suggest. Fairly happy otherwise :)

 

• Greater magnification - the magnification/ zoom in aircraft like the F35 is much greater than the 4.0x of the Wipeout/ Neophron/ Buzzard  - I get that you have gameplay/ balancing in mind, but surely there should be a greater technological advantage to a jet over something like an Ifrit! Maybe something like 8x or 10x would be about the right ballpark, but even the Scorcher gunner has 32x magnification!
   
• When locked onto a target, the targeting view should centre on the target to simulate some form of targeting.
   
• ~360 degrees horizontal viewing - you should be able to look behind you so that you can see bomb impact/ continue targeting once past your target/ general observation.
   
• Bind movement/ orientation to numpad keys rather than mouse.

[en3x 209]

Alright, I did some research and browse through interiors of modern battle tanks like abrams m1a2 sep, challanger 2, lepoard 2a6 and merkava m4.
Came to conclusion that all this vehicles have gunsight optic and MFDs (screens).
 
Now what arma is simulating is gunsight optic.And this is the dilema because all those other extra information are usually located at mfds leaving
gunner sight clear as much as possible.Providing reticle, FCS and other minor subsystem but what is important they are located
on the corners of the screen, never overlaping reticle.
 

Gunisight on the left, mfds on the right.
 
This is what arma tries to simulate
 

 

Is not correct to display this on gunsight because of obstruction (keeping reticle as clear as possible)

 

So how do deal with this?Make it a difficulty option.

If you really have to carry over this feature into MP Make a graphical respresentation like on image above (but position it on the corner of the screen)

 

Here's example of gunner sight

m1a2

http://www.steelbeasts.com/sbwiki/images/8/87/M1A1%28HA%29_TIS_10x.jpg

 

Notice no brackets/or graphic UI of position of commander?

[x3kj 1247]

You are comparing what is NOW on tanks to what could be 2035 on tanks. A3 is not VBS.

 

 

Now what arma is simulating is gunsight optic.

This is wrong. We dont have interiors, so the sight is the only view option we have. Therefore all the required information needs to be in this screen. If it was supposed to be an optical sight, why would it have the "pixeldoor" visual effect?

[en3x 209]

Perhaps is not optical sight, but what is it then mfd?

 

I'm basing systems on current day technology the one that merkava uses, or the one

that leopard evolution designed to use.I rather use this to acknowledge word authenthic

than create abstract 2035 fictional system that have some problem (like covering reticle,

cluttering screen, fictional)

[R3vo 2652]

Any chance the improved targeting settings could be seperated in the difficulty options? For exampe: I'd like to have the additional target assistance when controlling a tank, but I don't what to have all the targeting stuff when on foot.

[teddymosart1 40]

To be able to use a M-82 Barrett for what it`s made to do-take out engines,Or disable Optics of a tank--they will have to make it so that one can shoot /destroy these items of various vehicles.

 

Sometimes ,they get hit ,can still move-but sights,radios,parts are in-op on them.Pods=Defined Areas that can be destroyed,will make Arma more real too.

[xxgetbuck123 945]

No, it has nothing to do with VBS.

CCIP is work in progress (it's not easy to compute for bombs....)

 

Do the Arma 3 Devs and VBS Devs ever share anything? Theres some awesome features in VBS which would make Arma the best thing ever! 

[xendance 3]

No, it has nothing to do with VBS.

CCIP is work in progress (it's not easy to compute for bombs....)

 

So wait. You're working on this: 

 

I managed to get that working somewhat two years ago (https://github.com/jonimake/arma-ccip ) but I it was just an SQF script and I had no idea what kind of physics calculations were done for the bombs. 

 

Great to have proper support for CCIP in the future :)

[JojoTheSlayer 35]

This is wrong. We dont have interiors, so the sight is the only view option we have. Therefore all the required information needs to be in this screen. If it was supposed to be an optical sight, why would it have the "pixeldoor" visual effect?

 

That really depends on the vehicle.

Back in Arma 2 some vehicles (eg BTR80) did have full interior including the gunner seats etc.

 

So enabling the gunner on a current none interior tank is just one setting set to 0. Obviously without any modeled interior the player would only see a black void, but a middle ground solution that wouldnt take too much work could be a 2D image overlay of what would be seen and PIP screens in that image.

 

Like this 2D image of a 3D space, but the two screens would be actual ingame Arma 3 PIP screens:

 

Enable the mouse pointer in that screen and have interactive buttons one could press. I would maybe even prefer that to full 360 interior, considering how much time it takes to model and how little one really get in return in most cases. TrackIR users would still be able to turn their head and see the black void outside of that screen though unless its possible to disable while on the screen, but I guess nothings perfect. LoL

[dr. hladik 231]

... and PIP screens in that image...

 

 

We cannot really use PIP for anything important, as it is very performance demanding and can be disabled in options.

[x3kj 1247]

We cannot really use PIP for anything important, as it is very performance demanding and can be disabled in options.

and in addition to the slow refresh rate, which makes those screens cumbersome to use for turret gunnery

 

That really depends on the vehicle.

Back in Arma 2 some vehicles (eg BTR80) [...]

We are talking about Arma 3 however. None of the armored vehicles have crew interior and it's unlikely that this will change in any shape or form in APEX, which will presumably be the last Arma 3 content update.

[Bamse 223]

Holy crap, even thinking about getting native support for CCIP or CCRP when doing CAS-runs use makes me man-moist.

BI, why do u toy with my heart so much lately ;)

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

To be 200% honest, i think a CCIP system is more important than the TGP. I on't think you understand how frustrating it is to have your entire squad wiped out because an A-10 is unable to put down fire accurately, in a situation where time is literally a matter of life and death.