Thread about hostage crisis in moscow

[Satchel 0]

This is delicate situation, for both, russia and chechnya.

It´s a tough decision for Putin on how to act, especially with all the media coverage and the world looking upon him.

If he decides to desperately storm the building in a attempt of an hostage rescue operation against all odds, because that´s what it is; about 50 terrorists armed to the teeth including rocket propelled grenades, a very large group of hostages held inside, an unknown number of explosive charges placed inside the theatre and wired human bombs....a HRT/CT nightmare, it´s more than likely this will become a huge bloodbath, that would be very harmful to russia´s political image if Putin decides to go with the prybar methods russian SF´s are known for, and fails with that.

If he would succeed with that (against my belief), it will be a short triumph, as the chechnya question remains, and there are no isurances something like this isn´t bound to happen anytime soon again.

As the suspected leader of the terrorist group is the nephew of the self proclaimed chechen "field commander" Arbi Barajew, who in ´99 kidnapped 4 british and australian engineers, and cut their heads off putting them on a country road near Grosny, because the engineers companys weren´t willing to pay the ransom this barajew character was demanding, doesn´t make me very confident either of solving this situation unbloody.

If Putin doesn´t act to meet the terrorists demands it will likely result in a bloodbath.

But how can he act to solve the situation unbloody for the hostages and at the same time show no weakness and keep his face? Where did the chechen terrorists come from and what can be done to prevent anything like this happening again in the future,  because as long as the conflict rages and the nature of it, these things can be expected to happen.

Solve it the old style soviet way, by deporting all chechen seperatists, or give off chechnya? it´s Putins call.

One thing we can be sure about, if it ends in a catastrophic way for the hostages, the results for Chechnya will also be very negative to speak it midly.

[akm74 1]

according to some russian newspapers police looking for family members for each terrorist inside. Then they can move this peoples (100-200) inside the building. Lets baraev to deside. He will have choice very soon . He can blow up building with his relatives (and 100+ relatives of other terrorist from his group) or surender.

Veryn good move.

[Goodspeed 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (brgnorway @ Oct. 26 2002,00:01)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Its because they have nothing else to do besides kill. There is no farming, no urban anything.<span id='postcolor'>

Do you ever wonder why? Try this: Russian soldiers burning crops and villages. If there is no land to farm - no crops to harvest - and there are criminal russian soldiers raping, killing, stealing - what are you supposed to do? And about the "no urban thing"? Just think about it, your armed forces has turned Grozny into a Chechenian Dresden.<span id='postcolor'>

Have you ever been in Chechnya?

[brgnorway 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Try to practice your brain guys. USSR has 15 republics before they broke apart. 14 of them now independent. No fighting, no blood.<span id='postcolor'>

I seem to remember fighting and unrest taking place in the baltic countries in the early 90's.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">But Chechnya. Why they can do it civilize way? They got their independent from 1996 to 1999. <span id='postcolor'>

Exactly what kind of "independence" are you talking about???

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Three of them will become part of NATO this year. They all have good relation to Russia no matter what.

<span id='postcolor'>

Not correct. The relationship between Russia and some of the baltic nations are not exactly friendly. Russia protested heavily against the possiblility of the baltic states becoming NATO members. Russia are also criticizing the baltic states for treating the russian population in those countries badly. They are denied citizenship amongst other things.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Before they invade Russian region of Dagestan. They take 1000 villagers (also Muslims) hostages. Sound similar?

<span id='postcolor'>

Are you talking about Budennovsk?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">10000+ peoples (including woman’s and orderly’s) was kill just because they was not Muslims. 100000 more leave Chechnya because they simply afraid for they lives. Not only Russians, but also all not Muslim populations.<span id='postcolor'>

I would suggest you "practise your own brain"! Wouldn't you agree that most people fleeing Chechnia do so because of the russian armed forces?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Before you judge something try to learn subject more. Don’t rely only on media or BBC.<span id='postcolor'>

I'd rather do that than trust you - or your governments information!

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Now back to the guy who commands this operation in Moscow. His last name baraev. Sound similar? <span id='postcolor'>

Yes, his name is familiar (Basayev). He was responsible for the hostage crisis in Budennovsk. Like you I am against incidents like that. Unfortunately your very own army manages to perform terror in a large scale. There are sufficient pastes and url's in this thread - so you should know!

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The more Chechen they kill in Chechnya, the less innocent civilian die in other places. Time to understand it guys.<span id='postcolor'>

I'm not even going to comment on that!

[brgnorway 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Goodspeed @ Oct. 26 2002,01:02)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">1--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (brgnorway @ Oct. 26 2002,001)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Its because they have nothing else to do besides kill. There is no farming, no urban anything.<span id='postcolor'>

Do you ever wonder why? Try this: Russian soldiers burning crops and villages. If there is no land to farm - no crops to harvest - and there are criminal russian soldiers raping, killing, stealing - what are you supposed to do? And about the "no urban thing"? Just think about it, your armed forces has turned Grozny into a Chechenian Dresden.<span id='postcolor'>

Have you ever been in Chechnya?<span id='postcolor'>

No I haven't, but Andrei Babitsky was there - Anna Politkovskaya was there. Most other journalists who went to Chechnia were sent to prison, exiled or murdered.

Have you been to New York? Do you believe the towers are still there?

[zverushka 0]

well, brgnorway, you know what scandinavians are thought of? They're thought of as very good blokes here. The stereotype about russians being h4x0ring criminals (bratki in russians) is true for a lot of people, but remember, generalizations suck, Russia is a big and varied country.

I don't know why you are consistently calling russians the untermensch. We're humans too. Howabout you say that the American soldiers raped and looted and killed all vietnamese, and terrorist attacks on civilians, if they happened, would be deserved, even though most of the population isn't crazy about the war. Its the same thing in Chechnya.

BTW.. The chechen "dzhiggit" tradition goes back FAR before russia ever expanded into asia and southern europe. All they do is fight. They were the enemy of all the caucasus people throughout the ages. The ingushetians were there helots (if your uneducated and don't know what that means, it's the spartan way of saying slave, they enslaved the ingushetian race, it was there only source of food, from ingush farmers, while the chechens cut each other up.) The ossettians were there enemy, when the Russians came, they needed someone to fight so they became the Russians enemy. The chechens are not a peace loving people. They have a tradition of violence, and this precedes the "Evil Looting Raping Subhuman Russians" by FAR.

PLEASE, euros, learn soem bloody history before you critisize things.

[Balschoiw 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Estonian? Are you kidding? It sound like “ I have Mexican friend who give me all information about Japanâ€

<span id='postcolor'>

You have no idea what you are talking about. I haven´t been to Chechnia on my own, but my job enables me to have looks into papers that differ a lot from official news stories. Yes my friends have been to chechnia and yes they were there with the russian army and yes they did tell of cruelties on both sides. So what´s your problem ? I didn´t say Russians or Chechnias are the guilty ones for a ten year war. But anyway if there are facts I dont bother to say them.

This is no thread about good or evil. Can you judge that ?

Dont come up to me with that things as my post was really very neutral.

[brgnorway 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (zverushka @ Oct. 26 2002,02:51)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><span id='postcolor'>

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The stereotype about russians being h4x0ring criminals (bratki in russians)  is true for  a lot of people, but remember, generalizations suck, Russia is a big and varied country.<span id='postcolor'>

I rather like russians myself. A friend of mine worked on a seizmic ship and they stayed in St.Petersburg several times. His experience of the russian people would suprise many of us I suppose. He told me you could stop a man on the street and start talking about philosophy or litterature any given day. I believe him.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I don't know why you are consistently calling russians the untermensch.<span id='postcolor'>

I wouldn't dream of calling you untermensch. As I said, I'm rather fond of the ruskies  

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Howabout you say that the American soldiers raped and looted and killed all vietnamese, <span id='postcolor'>

Yes they did - and I have said it many times on this forum. The Mai Ling massacre is a good example.

[zverushka 0]

Was the estonian in the russian army?

If he was.. what a stupid idiot. He could have just said that he wantred to fight for his homeland of estonia, it would work if he had estonian citizenship. I have a russian friend who lived in ukraine, he was in the Soviet army, but when they told him to get into the ukrainean army, he didn't want to be with xaxols, so he said that he wanted to fight for his real motherland a load of bullshit like that and they put him in russian army, but then his 2 year term was over.

[Balschoiw 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Was the estonian in the russian army?

<span id='postcolor'>

They were russian citizens and moved to Estonia after the Rus federation split up.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">If he was.. what a stupid idiot<span id='postcolor'>

As I said they are both friends of mine and they are more honourable than some guys here on the forums seem to be.

Stop that flaming please, cause it´s :

- offtopic

- ugly

- not informative

Respect other opinions and have a civilized debate.

If you cant, I suggest to stay out of it.

[zverushka 0]

st. petersburg is great city, better than moscow. moscow has too many uneducated immigrants from asia and caucasus. Well, we've reached an understanding here, so lets debate about our opinions like civilized adults.

Well, anyway, I'm saying that under the conditions the conscripted russian soldier has in the cold mountain hell chechnya is, with guerrilla forces attacking everwhere, etc.., like the american soldier in vietnam, will sometimes be completely frustrated at the enemy, and be very angry, sometimes (unfortunately) bringing out their rage on the chechen civilians by killing and looting.

If they make the army a volunteer army, and proffesionalize it, with court martials of people that are uncontrollably angry, chechnya could be much easier.

Of course, all this now is secondary. The most important thing is the condition of the hostages under terrorist control. Some people that are freed report seeing the blood of actors in the alleyways, and dead people. Unfortunately, I doubt the ability of alfa to resolve the situation. They aren't the most creative of special forces, and if you think realistically, all the prisoners are gunna die. *sob*

What they could do, however, is they could put some instantly working paralyzing gas into the building. The tangos would be paralyzed, and alfa can just move in and collect there bodies.

There's also a messier method of putting alot of chechen people into the theater. The tangoes would maybe be a bit hesistant of blowing the place up by taking there own kind with them and probably start shooting at the crowd. If alfa shoots accurately and proffesionally enough (that it can do) it can kill the Ts before they do too much damage, but this entirely depends on the fact that the chechens don't blow up the muslims with them.

[zverushka 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Stop that flaming please, cause it´s :

- offtopic

- ugly

- not informative

<span id='postcolor'>

I'm not flaming, I just think that IF the estonian was int eh russian army, which he isn't, it would be foolish of him. He could just be transferred into the estonian army, which isn't in chechnya. But he wasn't, case closed.

[brgnorway 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (zverushka @ Oct. 26 2002,03:53)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><span id='postcolor'>

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Well, anyway, I'm saying that under the conditions the conscripted russian soldier has in the cold mountain hell chechnya is, with guerrilla forces attacking everwhere, etc.., like the american soldier in vietnam, will sometimes be completely frustrated at the enemy, and be very angry, sometimes (unfortunately) bringing out their rage on the chechen civilians by killing and looting.

<span id='postcolor'>

I believe you are right.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">If they make the army a volunteer army, and proffesionalize it, with court martials of people that are uncontrollably angry, chechnya could be much easier.

<span id='postcolor'>

You are right on this one as well. US had huge problems with their soldiers in the period after the Vietnam war. In many camps the officers didn't even dare to enter the barracks - afraid of being attacked. The drug problem was enormous.

I too believe getting rid of the conscipts would be a good idea.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">What they could do, however, is they could put some instantly working paralyzing gas into the building. The tangos would be paralyzed, and alfa can just move in and collect there bodies.

<span id='postcolor'>

Just curious, has this been done before?

[Col. Kurtz 0]

Why can't we stick to talking about the situation is Moscow, not in Chechnya?

Of course the two events are connected, but we seem to be less and less discussing the hostage situation, and more and more battling over who is the right force in the Chechnyian war.

[akm74 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I would suggest you "practise your own brain"! Wouldn't you agree that most people fleeing Chechnia do so because of the russian armed forces?

<span id='postcolor'>

No, read my post again. It happen in 1991 . There was no russian forces in chechny. They movein in 1994 i belive. And they move in other russian regions. Strange way to fleeing from Russian. Don't you think so ?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I seem to remember fighting and unrest taking place in the baltic countries in the early 90's.

<span id='postcolor'>

it seem only you remember this.. (if you call beating 2 peoples fighting)

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Exactly what kind of "independence" are you talking about???

<span id='postcolor'>

2 years free from russian soldiers, goverment, presence and rules.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Russia are also criticizing the baltic states for treating the russian population in those countries badly. They are denied citizenship amongst other things.

<span id='postcolor'>

international human right did't apply for russian anymore ?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Yes, his name is familiar (Basayev). He was responsible for the hostage crisis in Budennovsk.

<span id='postcolor'>

no, his name not basaev , but baraev. And no, i'm not talking about Budennovsk.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I'm not even going to comment on that! <span id='postcolor'>

you don't have to. It always easy to be good guy from far away.

BTW

You use word rape almost in every post . Are you have problems with woman ?

[Balschoiw 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">What they could do, however, is they could put some instantly working paralyzing gas into the building. The tangos would be paralyzed, and alfa can just move in and collect there bodies.

<span id='postcolor'>

Not a good idea if the terrorist have release triggers on their bombs that go off if they are NOT pressed. I am pretty sure that this method is taken into account if you take a whole theater in the heart of moscow hostage.Also doors could be wired. Reports tell there is a big bomb in the main audience surrounded by the hostages and I really doubt that authorities know about all explosives set in the building as there seem to be a lot of them. Radio controlled or not. The belly wrists the terrorists wear look a lot like Semtex with Elo - triggers. At least the ones I have seen on TV. I estimate the belly charges at 2 to 3 kilos. This isnt very much if you detonate uncompressed but within this crowd of people you can do a lot of damage if only one of it explodes. Here in this case a lot of explosives are around on

- terrorists themselves

- hidden in building

- main bomb in main audience

Furthermore it is possible that some of the female terrorists are not really terrorists. Maybe they were only dressed and wired. Noone knows cause the women are dressed up to their noses. So maybe there are hostages wired also. This is an incredibly complicated scenario and ANY intervention by Rus forces will have a blood bath as a consequence. That´s for sure by the facts we know right now.

[zverushka 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I believe you are right.

You are right on this one as well. US had huge problems with their soldiers in the period after the Vietnam war. In many camps the officers didn't even dare to enter the barracks - afraid of being attacked. The drug problem was enormous.

I too believe getting rid of the conscipts would be a good idea.

<span id='postcolor'>

Finally we agree!

I thinkt he russian army is going through these changes as well, the parachute corps is already volunteer only.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

Just curious, has this been done before?

<span id='postcolor'>

I don't know. I haven't heard about it even in Tom Clancy novels. but I think it could be possible. Lets hope they use the method that creates the least deaths. They're most definately not negotiating with the terrorists. The most peaceful solution that we can expect is gas.

PEOPLE!! This shows that there CAN be an intelligent discussion on a message board WITHOUT everyone yelling at one another.

[zverushka 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Not a good idea if the terrorist have release triggers on their bombs that go off if they are NOT pressed. I am pretty sure that this method is taken into account if you take a whole theater in the heart of moscow hostage.Also doors could be wired. Reports tell there is a big bomb in the main audience surrounded by the hostages and I really doubt that authorities know about all explosives set in the building as there seem to be a lot of them. Radio controlled or not. The belly wrists the terrorists wear look a lot like Semtex with Elo - triggers. At least the ones I have seen on TV. I estimate the belly charges at 2 to 3 kilos. This isnt very much if you detonate uncompressed but within this crowd of people you can do a lot of damage if only one of it explodes. Here in this case a lot of explosives are around on

- terrorists themselves

- hidden in building

- main bomb in main audience

Furthermore it is possible that some of the female terrorists are not really terrorists. Maybe they were only dressed and wired. Noone knows cause the women are dressed up to their noses. So maybe there are hostages wired also. This is an incredibly complicated scenario and ANY intervention by Rus forces will have a blood bath as a consequence. That´s for sure by the facts we know right now.

<span id='postcolor'>

They can all be paralyzed an the bomb defusers can come in.

Also, there are some open windows, plus a possible entrance way through the roof, a chopper can drop them off and if there are any roof windows, they can break them, if not, there's always a way in. The entrance and exit way bombs can be located with a metal detector and some more complicated device and then defused, then all hostages can be quickly evacuated through the door. They can handcuff the terrorists and take them away too. They take off the bomb devices and everything and start defusing the bombs in the building.

The question is how are they gonna get a good gas into the building on all sides so all the tangos are affected. Soviet theaters didn't have fire sprinklers ya know?

[USMC Sniper 0]

Couldnt they just clear everyone away from the place, and a plane would could and say drop some canister with all the gas in it. The real problem would be to get INSTANT gas, so the terrorists cannot have time to detonate anything.

BTW, where are you guys looking for new on this event?

[brgnorway 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (AKM74 @ Oct. 26 2002,04:12)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><span id='postcolor'>

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">No, read my post again. It happen in 1991 . There was no russian forces in chechny. They movein in 1994 i belive.<span id='postcolor'>

Well then, I didn't know. What I do know is that in 1991 Dudayev declared Chechnye do be independent. I'm also aware of the fact that the rule established by Dydayev was called

a "gangster state". But I do not know what you are refering to. Please find a link or something!

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">it seem only you remember this.. (if you call beating 2 peoples fighting)

<span id='postcolor'>

I wouldn't call attacking the TV tower with tanks and bmp's "beating 2 people".

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">2 years free from russian soldiers, goverment, presence and rules.<span id='postcolor'>

No, they were not given any independence at all. They got a ceasefire, but not indipendence. That was to be decided upon in 2001. However, Putin put an end to that!

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">international human right did't apply for russian anymore ?<span id='postcolor'>

I'm afraid not!

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">you don't have to. It always easy to be good guy from far away.<span id='postcolor'>

I know, it is! Nevertheless I try to be one. I hate unjustice, and one realy shouldn't stop caring about what's going on - even in Checnya.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">You use word rape almost in every post . Are you have problems with woman ?<span id='postcolor'>

I have a problem with soldiers raping womEN. It's the lowest simplest most disgusting crime a soldier can do - except from doing the same to children.

[zverushka 0]

keep it civil gents

[MAsta_KFC 0]

Paralysing with gas? Sounds pretty risky to me. You'd need a gas that would knock them ALL out pretty quickly and effectively too. If just one of the terrorists caught whiff about what was going on, it'd all be over.

And the operation would have to be timed very well too. AS soon as the gas kicks in, hostages would have to be evacuated and terrorists neutralised. That sort of thing would be very difficult to execute, given the current physical and mental state of some of the hostages. Seems to be this would only be a last ditch effort if negotiations fail.

[Renagade 0]

Im sure whoevers doing th operation to get them out will have the latest equipment to keep see whats going on behind the walls the only problem to ur KO gas theory is it probably wouldn`t be instant and what if the triggers set off the bombs when they are released like someone pointed out already.

[brgnorway 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (USMC Sniper @ Oct. 26 2002,04:33)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><span id='postcolor'>

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">BTW, where are you guys looking for new on this event?<span id='postcolor'>

I suppose most news sites are ok - but I go for BBC World Service

http://news.bbc.co.uk/

Oh no, looks like something bad is happening right now!

[zverushka 0]

uhoh- lets hope nothing happened to any more hostages.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/2363145.stm

BTW.. I think BBC is the best. It's prbably the only news service that doesn't concentrate ona specific country's news.