Arma 3 2DEditor and you! Please leave feedback!

[Repetence 1]

Hello BI Community,

 

I am making this thread due to the news I am recieving in-game. With the Apex Expansion coming soon, the original 2D editor is set to be removed with this update, thus not allowing anymore editing to be done via the 2D Editor.

 

I love Eden, adds a very nice GUI to be able to edit and create missions, but, with anything, change always is rough. I am posting this to see if other members of the community feel the same way about the removal of the 2D editor on the Apex Expansion.

 

I love having both, thus wanting to start a discussion on keeping the 2D editor on the update, rather than taking it away!

 

 

Regards,

 

Repetence.

[ProfTournesol 956]

There's already a topic about that :https://forums.bistudio.com/topic/187692-removal-of-the-2d-editor-why-options-are-good-workflow-slowdown-for-modders/

[caboose816 38]

The majority of my time in Arma has been spent in the editor. Since I heard about Eden, I've been mostly on dev branch playing with it.  The only time I've used the 2D editor since Eden was announced was when I didn't want to download the dev branch. Since Eden hit main, I haven't touched the 2D editor. There is no point in keeping it around. If you like the 2D interface, open the map up in Eden.

[semiconductor 309]

There is no point in keeping it around. If you like the 2D interface, open the map up in Eden.

This.

[bonchie 39]

Pressing M and opening the map view is literally almost exactly the same as the 2D editor. You can easily do waypoints and triggers from it. 
 

I have no idea what people are complaining about.

[Mozkelby 39]

I honestly don't see why you would want the 2D editor anyway. Everything can be done the same, if not better in Eden Editor.

[chortles 263]

SITREP #00145:

Now that Eden Editor is available to everyone, we'd like to clarify our plans for the old 2D Editor. You will have seen that editor is currently still available as non-default. Our plan is to deprecate that editor by the time we release Apex (and its corresponding platform update). In all likelihood that means it would be removed from the game, because we'd want to focus on one tool and not support two full code-bases. We feel that Eden can do everything the old editor could and much more. In case you didn't realize, there is a 2D map mode in the Eden 3D Editor as well! If you feel something is missing or not working how you'd like, please don't hesitate to let us know via the forums.

[cosmic10r 2331]

I was doing some tutorial vids using 3den and forgot 3d mode was available.. I ended up throwing it in just because I felt guilty for using the 2d. I do find the zeus style menus more convenient then the old place a unit and search through the unit types to select units. I'm still learning the new organizational structure and to remember that "empty" is gone. But other than that i find the sitrep part to be fairly true. 

[I give up 152]

3D editor is a valuable addiction.

But, I hope we can keep 2D editor.

As a matter of power saving.

[Repetence 1]

The 2D editors layout is what I prefer, rather than the sidebar in Eden, hence why I made this thread. It is nice to jump to and from.

[Neviothr 102]

Scripting is much harder to do in 3DEN, it takes A LOT longer to load.

[zapat 56]

For the ones who honestly don't know why someone prefers the 2d editor: I do everything by scripts, the editor is only a hook point for me (with one placed unit, that's all). I sometimes need to restart the game too and as cx 64 said, 3den takes a lot longer to load.

I understand that having two editors is a problem, but a lite version of 3den would be great.

[road runner 4344]

For the ones who honestly don't know why someone prefers the 2d editor: I do everything by scripts, the editor is only a hook point for me (with one placed unit, that's all). I sometimes need to restart the game too and as cx 64 said, 3den takes a lot longer to load.

I understand that having two editors is a problem, but a lite version of 3den would be great.

for whom? You mean a lite version of the 2D editor surely (which is what's there as it is) ? why have a lite version and a full version, what possible benefits could that achieve? Seems like a waste of processor and storage space having 2 version of the same editor running within the game.

APEX was all about the 3D Editor, plus a few other enhancements.

The problem with you guys set in your ways, is that you don't like change, its called evolution, and the game devs had a road map to work to, and as it stands, the old fashioned 2D Editor is on its way out, welcome to progress guys.

[zapat 56]

roadrunner: you clearly don1t understand what you are talking about. Tell me what progression can I make (apart from speed) in placing a single unit in the editor?

Tell me what evolution is there for an addonmaker, who needs to restart the game 100x per hour?

 

For the casual mission maker, yes you are correct. But the community has power users, whose approach you clearly can't embrace. Which is not a problem. But please stop being aggressive.

[Defunkt 431]

Why on earth would you need to restart the game 100 times an hour? That's ridiculous. The problem is your workflow.

[road runner 4344]

roadrunner: you clearly don1t understand what you are talking about. Tell me what progression can I make (apart from speed) in placing a single unit in the editor?

Tell me what evolution is there for an addonmaker, who needs to restart the game 100x per hour?

 

For the casual mission maker, yes you are correct. But the community has power users, whose approach you clearly can't embrace. Which is not a problem. But please stop being aggressive.

You're having a laugh sunshine, nothing aggressive in my post, you're on the other hand... reeks of angst and aggression.

Let me clarify a few points,you have made, making assumptions..

I clearly don't know what I'm talking about? This coming from a guy who said to have a Lite version of Eden also in the game? ummmm okay, ain't going to happen, and the Dev's have been pretty clear about the road they're taking.

You do everything via script? sounds like you don't even need an in game editor at all to do this, what's wrong with notepad++ for writing scripts? Oh yeah, you want to keep checking it works, I get it, but for an extra 10-15 seconds of the 3D editor firing up isn't going to make ANY DIFFERENCE to your overall objective, it's not like you're actually making a living out of scripting, and have deadlines to meet is it? ;)

You need to take a chill pill, all I said was it's an evolution, go with the flow, you cannot change the inevitable, well you can, you can stick with old builds and restart your mission 100 times an hour till your hearts content, whilst the majority will be enjoying the game for what it is.. you sound way too serious and are acting like it's life or death when you need to restart missions 100 times in an hour.

The community isn't made up of guys who just spend all their time scripting, the community is huge, and the devs responded to what the community wanted, the overwhelming majority wanted a 3d editor.

 

 

So my feedback is that I'm Happy with the 3D editor, as I can still do everything in it that I could do with the old 2D one.. I'm entitled to that opinion as a paying customer, I respect your views, you should try respecting others opinions and also those of the devs too who have striven to make this game better.

[zapat 56]

 ummmm okay, ain't going to happen, and the Dev's have been pretty clear about the road they're taking.

 

FYI: https://forums.bistudio.com/topic/187692-removal-of-the-2d-editor-why-options-are-good-workflow-slowdown-for-modders/page-2#entry2974615

 

I am not talking against 3DEN. It's a welcomed addition. I am talking about leaving a quicker/lighter option for those who may need/want it. 

[road runner 4344]

What would be the point in having 2 3D editors in the game, a full version and a lite version, when they do exactly the same thing? Fair enough keeping the current 2D editor, but I wouldn't want to have to fuck about with loading up a full, versus lite option of the same thing, that does the same thing, that produces the same results.

In what way would you make it a "Lite version" ?

[zapat 56]

For me it seems that 3DEN loads a lot of things even when returning to the editor from the game. 2D is instant. The same with loads.

 That's it really. And it is true that later versions has been getting better in this regard.  No need for parallel editors, only one, where you could tick if you want all the bells and whistle loaded, or just run/return from the mission as fast as possible.

 

And let's calculate some. I have like 1500 hours in my works. i check my stuff many times by loading the mission (most of the times it needs to be restarted for the functions to init/reload). Lets say 10 times an hour. This means 15000 restarts, but make it 10000. If I spare 3 sec each time, it is 9 hours. Not much, but it's something to talk about.

 

For me A3 is a programming platform. For me evolution is flexibility to personalise it to the greatest extent. 

(Like you say on your profile RoadRunner: Choices choices choices!!)

 

 

Why on earth would you need to restart the game 100 times an hour? That's ridiculous. The problem is your workflow.

I was talking about eg. Opticalsnare (Blastcore) and his workflow, afaik (but I may be wrong here) this was a nail in the coffin of his great mod. 

[Rydygier 1314]

Previously I had the same issue exactly, mentioned it in the other thread about this. But after short test, when Eden appeared in the main branch, I didn't noticed any noticeable longer loading times for 3D editor. Perhaps didn't tested thoroughly enough, it was short try. If there actually IS an issue with noticeably longer loading times, I fully confirm, what zapat's said - it's the problem then, seriously impacting scripting workflow, which often involves numerous reloads in the short time. How serious the problem is depends, what's the loading time difference between 2D and 3D. This difference is multiplied by amount of reloads. "Fast mode" sounds as good solution, unless loading times can be made not (much) longer, than for 2D also for normal 3D editor. 

 

" Opticalsnare (Blastcore) and his workflow, afaik (but I may be wrong here) this was a nail in the coffin of his great mod. "

 

BTW, from what I remember, it could be possible to test particle parameters without restarting the whole game for him. Was enough to test parameters on scripted particles, and only after it's done put them into an addon. I would do it this way. Not sure, why he didn't tried my suggestion back then, perhaps it wasn't feasible for his case. Anyway, game restarts are in general required, if modder tests a config stuff. 

[Greenfist 1863]

I did a very simple speed comparison before the release:

Open the editor, place a unit, preview, go back, load mission, preview, go back.

 

Only thing clearly slower is the first unit placement/opening a mission but everything else seems faster in 3D. (Except my mouse work, but I'm getting better at it!)

 

Of course, the editor has changed since then and there might be difference between missions/mods.

[zapat 56]

My biggest hiccup is exiting: 3DEN takes 3 secs, exiting 2d editor is instant. This is where I take my 3 secs from.

[Callsign 128]

To be honest, the time saved from being able to set the height of objects or place objects on tables in the editor (and placing objects more generally) rather than through trial and error scripting vastly outweighs any miniscule seconds difference in loading makes.

If you're constantly having to check your work in game for problems it suggests you need to slow up and check you're getting it right the first time.

 

[chrisb 196]

I don't play A3, just mess around occasionally testing stuff. I much prefer the 2D editor. But I can see that for new players and those that don't use the editor much, that the 3D version is very handy. I still use the 2D when messing around in A3, tried the 3D, its good, but wasn't for me really. 

 

That said, its probably that working in the editor for soo long, makes it harder to change, get set in your ways, for some at least. I still would have preferred the effort go into more important things concerning A3, but there you go.

Just glad they haven't decided to put it into A2.. ;)

[weaponsfree 46]

I'm slowly getting familiar with the 3D editor. To date I see it save me time for precise placement of units and especially items in urban settings.

 

However I find it to be a bit clunky in some respects, specifically in orienting units using the shift key. Was a piece of cake in the 2D editor, but it seems to take some kind of precision in 3den. But I expect to be fluent soon enough.

 

I'm a bit sad in losing the 2D editor, but I understand that it's not efficient to keep. I just hope we get a clear warning when an update will officially cut it. I want to make a last 2D mission for old times sake.