Removal of the 2D editor - why - options are good, workflow slowdown for modders

[tortuosit 486]

Keyboard shortcut for old editor + command line arg -2Deditor I think are a good solution. So only people who really want it use it. Also, good point andersson.

[soulis6 24]

It's insane to me that people would want to keep the 2d editor. You can do all the same stuff in the map view of the new editor, and the amount of time you save placing units and objects is immensely huge.

 

I'll take an extra minute or so of first startup time to save 2-3 hours trying to place buildings and objects and units like I want them in the old editor. 

[HeroesandvillainsOS 1504]

It's insane to me that people would want to keep the 2d editor. You can do all the same stuff in the map view of the new editor, and the amount of time you save placing units and objects is immensely huge.

 

I'll take an extra minute or so of first startup time to save 2-3 hours trying to place buildings and objects and units like I want them in the old editor.

Again. The missions I make are all module, syncing, grouping, and previewing over and over and over based. I do not need or desire a 3D view. At least not now.

Let's say it takes one extra minute to preview a mission. Or better yet, let's say 30 seconds. And then let's say I need to preview it 100 times. That is a TON of wasted minutes.

I'm happy they're focusing on a new editor. Maybe eventually I'll actually learn how to make more advanced missions and I'll eventually really enjoy 3D. I just don't see how it's unreasonable to ask that the 2D editor either be kept in with a console command, or the 2D view itself to function exactly how the 2D editor works today.

Like the OP said, options are a good thing.

[soulis6 24]

Again. The missions I make are all module, syncing, grouping, and previewing over and over and over based. I do not need or desire a 3D view. At least not now.

Let's say it takes one extra minute to preview a mission. Or better yet, let's say 30 seconds. And then let's say I need to preview it 100 times. That is a TON of wasted minutes.

 

 

I don't believe that's the case though, or at least I haven't noticed any difference in the amount of time it takes to go into or out of a preview. The only increase in loading i've seen is a small one upon first opening the editor.

 

When you're in the 2d map view it's very very similar to the old editor.

[cosmic10r 2331]

I have noticed it is a bit longer to exit a mission back to the editor...

 

Load times are a bit longer and this is relevant to lower spec pcs and laptops..

 

That being said I am quickly getting to the point i cant live without Eden.

- I need to do some testing on Stable for a project but don't want to lose eden lol.

 

The ability to visualize placement is amazing once you get the whole having to hold alt. for height

Being able to sort missions into folders and having a search is friggin brilliant.

I have a ton of test missions and sorting them saves me a ton of time in finding the current mission im working on.

[katipo66 94]

It's a shame they are going to drop it, I haven't been on Dev for a while so cannot remember if Eden had a merge function, from memory it didnt, merge allows mission creation in layers of sorts allowing for some complex setups and the ability to fine tune elements and re-merge.

[fn_Quiksilver 1636]

I support the full removal of 2D editor,  even if it hurts a little.

 

Would not like to have dev time wasted maintaining and updating the functionality of a redundant and obsolete tool.

 

Maybe we can look into a 'quick preview' functionality for the 3D editor instead. 

 

Example: Hold shift while loading the 3D editor takes you straight into a preview scenario in the currently loaded world.

 

 

For the guys who like the 2D editor for its low performance impact ... Learn SQF and you can design entire scenarios without ever booting up ArmA. Can't get much more performance-friendly than that.

 

In the balance I think its best to remove it.

[andersson 285]

For the guys who like the 2D editor for its low performance impact ... Learn SQF and you can design entire scenarios without ever booting up ArmA. Can't get much more performance-friendly than that.

Riiiight... My missions normally rely on scripts, as you say I design the scenario in SQF, but who in this world can create a mission like that without checking how the code runs now and then?

Hats of to the person who can create something that works afterwards without ever running the code ingame to see how it all works (or how it's not working as in 90% of the time...)

 

Sure if they remove it it's not a big deal for me but I think there are a few valid reasons to keep it hidden in the background. It's stable and well proven since 15 years so I doubt BI must use much time, if any, to support it. And I'm sure that the people who wants it is using it to test different scripts and code so the bugs will be found in the code created.

[tortuosit 486]

For the guys who like the 2D editor for its low performance impact ... Learn SQF and you can design entire scenarios without ever booting up ArmA. Can't get much more performance-friendly than that.

 

I heard the vast majority of ArmA scripters do not even have ArmA installed, because it's so easy. ArmA scripting on a Linux box in vi is very common.

I'm personally lazy, I must admit. Hey say "hello Google, sqf department please" into my smartphone and the let my smartphone write things down.

 

I think it is fine to remove ArmA from ArmA, because you can run missions in your mind.

[fn_Quiksilver 1636]

Just saying, its not like you are locked out of scenario design and mission-making if the old 2D editor is removed.

[HeroesandvillainsOS 1504]

I support the full removal of 2D editor,  even if it hurts a little.

 

Would not like to have dev time wasted maintaining and updating the functionality of a redundant and obsolete tool.

 

Maybe we can look into a 'quick preview' functionality for the 3D editor instead. 

 

Example: Hold shift while loading the 3D editor takes you straight into a preview scenario in the currently loaded world.

 

 

For the guys who like the 2D editor for its low performance impact ... Learn SQF and you can design entire scenarios without ever booting up ArmA. Can't get much more performance-friendly than that.

 

In the balance I think its best to remove it.

This is ridiculous and a little unreasonable, don't you think?

If you read my posts, how is anything I'm asking for not a perfectly adequate argument for keeping it in some form? Your response pretty much equates to "just get better at scripting" which is crazy on so many levels.

[sic-disaster 311]

As long as the ability to press M to get the map overview remains in the editor, I am fine with that. For me it makes it easier to create a 'flowchart' out of the triggers, to arrange them in such a way that allows me to keep track of them more easily, since I have a lot of triggers that follow eachother up for radio conversations and such. It is harder to keep track of in a 3d space. Since the idea behind the new editor is increased ease of use, it seems counter-intuitive to remove the 2d map completely.

[Flogger23m 2]

Advantages of 2d editor are obvious when you need a quick testing environment where you want quickly try things. It starts faster and you are doubleclick away from preview. It is also fast to return back and restart preview. 3d editor is not suited for this. I would like to have an option to be able to quick test something.

 

I see almost zero loading time difference. Get an SSD because it sounds like you lack one. We're talking 1 second if that. The 3D editor is better as it adds some basic functions, but still lacks many. Kill off the 2D editor and bring the 3D editor on par with games from the 90s and I'll be happy.

[chortles 263]

As long as the ability to press M to get the map overview remains in the editor, I am fine with that. For me it makes it easier to create a 'flowchart' out of the triggers, to arrange them in such a way that allows me to keep track of them more easily, since I have a lot of triggers that follow eachother up for radio conversations and such. It is harder to keep track of in a 3d space. Since the idea behind the new editor is increased ease of use, it seems counter-intuitive to remove the 2d map completely.

The '2D' top-down view is in as the dev diary demonstrates.

[andersson 285]

Good point. That solves the performance problem for me.

[Flogger23m 2]

This is ridiculous and a little unreasonable, don't you think?

If you read my posts, how is anything I'm asking for not a perfectly adequate argument for keeping it in some form? Your response pretty much equates to "just get better at scripting" which is crazy on so many levels.

 

EDEN sucks as it is, but at least is useable unlike the horrific 2D editor. Basic functionality is hidden, time consuming and looks like a clusterfuck to put it nicely. Drawing lines, typing scripts and all sorts of nonsense for something as simple as activating/deactivating a single unit. They should dump the 2D editor quickly and shape up EDEN to make it a proper editor. The linage to the old and garbage 2D editor is very evident, and the quicker they make EDEN stand on its own and stop emulating the horrible 2D editor the better. The entire line tracing and typing concept of the triggers is terrible and needs to get torn out of EDEN and replaced with something intelligent. Supporting two editors when they're clearly having trouble supporting one would be a disaster.

 

Using the 2D editor is like using MS DOS in 2016. EDEN is like using Windows 95... still a pain in the ass, but so much better. And for most of yours needs you can always hit "M" and view things in a 2D overlay when necessary.

[Defunkt 431]

I won't be going back to 2D. If it means less development time has to be lost to keeping the 2D editor in-step I'd as soon it was binned.

[Beagle 684]

I was comfortable with the 2D editor for 15 years. Im not goinf to relearn all of this. I rather phase myself out and fall back to ArmA II whre the CTI community is better and more popuated anyway. BIS dies a great job of alienating the OFP/ArmA players of the first days when we did text editing of the Demo even before there was any editor at all. We never needed a 3D Editor because we knew after a while how thinks would work out in the engine.

[themaster303 22]

I was comfortable with the 2D editor for 15 years. Im not goinf to relearn all of this. I rather phase myself out and fall back to ArmA II whre the CTI community is better and more popuated anyway. BIS dies a great job of alienating the OFP/ArmA players of the first days when we did text editing of the Demo even before there was any editor at all. We never needed a 3D Editor because we knew after a while how thinks would work out in the engine.

bla bla bla ;) why you dont check that the 2d - editor is still in. so you stop anyway to make missions or do you stay and make missions now, since

it is still in ??

 

and you still can do the same in the 3d - editor.

[cosmic10r 2331]

I was comfortable with the 2D editor for 15 years. Im not goinf to relearn all of this. I rather phase myself out and fall back to ArmA II whre the CTI community is better and more popuated anyway. BIS dies a great job of alienating the OFP/ArmA players of the first days when we did text editing of the Demo even before there was any editor at all. We never needed a 3D Editor because we knew after a while how thinks would work out in the engine.

Good lord... the only constant is change... u can choose to live in early 2001 all you want... the rest of the world is moving...

This editor is vastly superior to any editor I have seen in any game and I've been modding since f1 challenge and f1-99 circa 2000

Like anything... you get out what u put in...

[fn_Quiksilver 1636]

Don't worry too much about it guys.

 

There are always people who grumble when their comfort zone is disturbed.

 

As expected there are a dozen edge case reasons people have found in support of keeping it around, but I'd hope BIS weighs the pros and cons fully and not just cater to a noisy grieving minority.

 

*runs away*

[harveydent 40]

There is nothing more annoying than those who say "Whatever you don't like, you're wrong. Stop complaining." If you're one of those people, please stop. It won't be long until there's something YOU don't like, and you'll be just as annoyed when you're met with people like you.

 

I've been using the 2D editor for years and I thoroughly enjoy it. Its why I play ArmA. I see no reason to have it removed, there are plenty of players who prefer the 2D editor. Why take that choice away? The 2D editor is simple, clean, and runs great on most computers. The 3D editor is flashy and new, but I still want to be given the choice. 

[cosmic10r 2331]

Actually what is more annoying is people who can't even bother trying something b4 they go off their nut about it....

If we were two months down this road and one had legitimate examples of things that can't be done in the 3D Editor then fine...

[DieselJC 196]

^{I am really bummed the 2d editor is going away..not impressed or happy with the 3d editor at all..it seems really really buggy...setting object height is pretty worthless as things all float above the surface or are below it and you cant see them,its almost as if it isn't very accurate in item placement at all.I can set objects in the editor and they look fine but when you preview them they are off far enough to make a big difference..hate to think all the missions I have open now will all have to be scrapped.}

 

^Diesel

[cosmic10r 2331]

^{I am really bummed the 2d editor is going away..not impressed or happy with the 3d editor at all..it seems really really buggy...setting object height is pretty worthless as things all float above the surface or are below it and you cant see them,its almost as if it isn't very accurate in item placement at all.I can set objects in the editor and they look fine but when you preview them they are off far enough to make a big difference..hate to think all the missions I have open now will all have to be scrapped.}

 

^Diesel

I haven't noticed that at all... can u post a test mission.

I put a few guys on top of several towers and when I preview they are all in correct spot. When i adjusted the height it even snapped to rooftop once I got his feet close..