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Will-my-pc-run-Arma3? What cpu/gpu to get? What settings? What system specifications?

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15 minutes ago, Tankbuster said:

And he clearly has an agenda. Others seem to say the opposite but we never see their content here.

I just don't think some people here understand the difference between offering balanced advice and trying to convert others to their point of view.

Claiming that some has "an agenda" because their conclusion doesn't fit your point of view sounds rather hypocritical.

Especially considering that it's based on empirical testing (rather than personal experience) and is supported by other reputable sources (see above).

I don't have an agenda, I simply want the most cost-effective cooling for my overclocked PC.

So please share "Others seem to say the opposite" in "here".

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*sigh* Why is it my responsibility to give evidence that another view might exist? Why should I waste my time offering opinions to someone who is intractable? Nah, I've got better things to do, thanks.

I did watch the Jazyz2cents (user name doesn't really inspire confidence, but nevermind) and he opens with ~ aircooling is slightly better than water cooling.

Meantime here's a user-generated discussion on the subject where both sides of the debate are discussed without too much (yeah, define 'too much') "IM RIGHT AND YOU'RE WRONG"

My main problem with youTubers is that the platform still hasn't cleaned up the issue of content makers not being completely transparent. It acknowledges the issue exists, but is, I suspect, wary that clamping down too much will damage income. But that's a discussion for another day, perhaps.

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50 minutes ago, Tankbuster said:

*sigh* Why is it my responsibility to give evidence that another view might exist? Why should I waste my time offering opinions to someone who is intractable? Nah, I've got better things to do, thanks.

I did watch the Jazyz2cents (user name doesn't really inspire confidence, but nevermind) and he opens with ~ aircooling is slightly better than water cooling.

Meantime here's a user-generated discussion on the subject where both sides of the debate are discussed without too much (yeah, define 'too much') "IM RIGHT AND YOU'RE WRONG"

My main problem with youTubers is that the platform still hasn't cleaned up the issue of content makers not being completely transparent. It acknowledges the issue exists, but is, I suspect, wary that clamping down too much will damage income. But that's a discussion for another day, perhaps.

Publicly questioning someone's someone's professional integrity because the results of their research doesn't fit your narrative and then denying any responsibility to support your claims severely weakens your credibility.

It's the same tactic used by conspiracy theorists, climate deniers, anti-vax movement, etc.

Ultimately it leads to bell-ends burning down 5G masts to stop COVID-19.

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Not really. I'm questioning the integrity of many youtubers, regardless of whether they agree or disagree with you or me.

The crux is that I worry that there is only one side of a many sided argument being put here. I'll forgive Groove because I think he is using his non-first language here.

But as you've taken to likening my arguments to those that you rightly describe as bellend, we're so far off topic that I'm going to leave you chaps to it.

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13 hours ago, Tankbuster said:

 

My first thought was, wow, that's a lot of weight to be hanging on the motherboard, but then I remember, you air cooler proponents are used to that anyway 🙂

Yes, IceGiant ProSiphon Elite will be pretty heavy, but since it's not a problem for any modern motherboard PCB, there is nothing to worry about and thus no arguments for an AiO, justifying it by moving weight from the motherboard to the PC case.

Also as it will be oriented in the same way as a GPU and it will be pretty high, there won't be any problems to plug in any fans or install/remove literally any RAM.

 

13 hours ago, Tankbuster said:

Why can't you accept that opinions contrary to yours might have some merit< @Groove_C?

13 hours ago, Tankbuster said:

Oh, well now that you've posted a single opinion from a well known 'reviewer' I'm totally changing my view. Groove is 100% correct on everything.

12 hours ago, Tankbuster said:

I just don't think some people here understand the difference between offering balanced advice and trying to convert others to their point of view.

11 hours ago, Tankbuster said:

*sigh* Why is it my responsibility to give evidence that another view might exist? Why should I waste my time offering opinions to someone who is intractable? Nah, I've got better things to do, thanks.

8 hours ago, Tankbuster said:

The crux is that I worry that there is only one side of a many sided argument being put here.

What you fail to realize is that I don't try to always have the last word, to be right even if I'm not or convince somebody that AiOs are bad.

I can't know everything and I'm always open to constructive critics/feedback and new/different sources/opinions, but only if the opponent refers to solid data one can rely on, so I can simply check it myself as well and take updated/different info from there to have a updated/wider point of view as well. Words only don't matter, like at all.

 

There are things, where there can't be my or your opinion, but only hard numbers and graphs, which is what needs to be provided when discussing or proving your personal observations/experience.

 

One can say that one woman is more beautiful than the other or that one cooler looks nicer/cleaner/slimmer, since everybody has different preferences.

Don't think that everybody likes RGB and that everybody absolutely likes and needs a clean view of the mainboard and RAM.

I have no problems with brown Noctua color and I don't look at my mainboard and RAM at all. I see no point in doing so, despite having my case on the table and with a glass side pannel.

So here you already have 1 point of view that's different from yours.

 

But when it comes to reliability, noise, temps, ease of service or lack of it, only facts have weight, proven by provided numbers and not only by words without any data/proofs.

 

I never said that one should avoid AiOs at all cost and that they're simply bad/dangerous.

If you read my messages again, you will (hopefully) see, that I only said, that one should provide data/proofs when trying to prove own point of view/experince and that AiOs simply have much more points of failure than an air cooler that simply has none, even if good quality AiOs have a very very low failure rate and when there are some failures, you can be sure this "news" will quickly spread across the net and this way will strongly distort the real situation.

But nontheless, you never know if/when it will fail + considerably higher price than the best air cooler, if you want the most reliable and quite pump and fans, for almost negligible temp difference.

 

If one cares about looks and absolute best possible temp (price/potential risk aside), even with same or lower noise than the most expensive air cooler, then go for it.

Once again, it might work flawlessly like 5 years right from the start, but there will always be a chance something can go wrong, best if right from the start, but can occure at any moment over time and you can't do anything about it.

 

I might also switch to water later, if IceGiant ProSiphon Elite won't be good.

But I will make sure to have a good pump, with at least 6 poles (better 8 poles) motor, good fans, possibility to replace/disconnect everything for maintenance and with possibility to refil/top it out.

 

NZXT has the most reliable and silent/stable pump of all AiO pumps at the moment (8 poles motor) in their Kraken X/Z 63/73 models.

But you can't disconnect hoses from the CPU base plate and from the radiator to shorten them or to replace them by longer ones, better translucent, to see if there is air or sediment/algea build up.

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Everyone, please find time and patience to watch and listen to this video carefully till the end.

Released today!

It's the most accurate one from all existing vids and forums' discussions out there.

 

Here the guy tests best available current air and water coolers with different (stock) fans and different radiator size, on AMD and Intel.

On CPUs with lower clock and voltage but larger contact area and on CPUs with higher clocks and voltage, but smaller contact area.

He tests all coolers adjusted to same noise level, to see temp difference in same conditions

+

He tests all coolers at max fans speed for each, to see temp difference, noise level aside.

 

One can clearly see, that Noctua fans on the NH-D15, that's from 2014 can rotate at higher speed than current fans of other brands and still produce same noise (35 dB), which is the indicator of still best noise/pressure/air volume fans, despite 6 years existance.

Current Noctua fans not included in the test, since not available in 140 mm to come stock on the NH-D15 cooler.

 

Tested on 32 threads AMD R9 3950X at only 4.2 GHz 1.219 V 200 W load:

At 35 dB (same noise level for all coolers), NH-D15 is 4°C behind best 280/360 mm AiO coolers and this is how it should be tested -> apples to apples -> current hardware in same conditions, side by side.

At 35 dB (same noise level for both AiOs), 280 mm AiO (from same brand and model + same pump) is 0.5 °C cooler than 360 mm variant.

 

Tested on Intel HEDT class CPU (not mainstream) 150 W load:

At 40 dB (same noise level for all coolers), NH-D15 is 7°C behind 360 mm Corsair H150i AiO.

At 40 dB (same noise level for all coolers), NH-D15 is 6°C behind 280 mm Corsair H115i Platinum AiO.

At 40 dB (same noise level for all coolers), NH-D15 is 6°C behind 280 mm NZXT Kraken X63/X62 AiO. Same goes for updated X73/Z73 and X63/Z63 NXZT AiOs.

At 40 dB (same noise level for all coolers), NH-D15 is 6°C behind 280 mm Corsair H115i v2 AiO.

At 40 dB (same noise level for all coolers), NH-D15 is 2°C behind 240 mm Corsair H100i Pro AiO.

 

Tested on 32 threads AMD R9 3950X at only 4.2 GHz 1.219 V 200 W load:

At max fans speed for all coolers, NH-D15 is 4°C behind 360/280 mm NZXT Kraken X72/X62. Same goes for updated X73/Z73 and X63/Z63 NXZT AiOs.

 

Tested on 16 threads AMD R7 3800X at 4.3 GHz 1.287 V 125 W load:

At 35 dB (same noise level for all coolers), NH-D15 is 3°C behind 360/280 mm NZXT Kraken X72/X62. Same goes for updated X73/Z73 and X63/Z63 NXZT AiOs.

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Like I said before and this most up to date video confirms it, temps difference of a 6 years old air cooler Noctua NH-D15 vs. 360/280 mm newest AiOs is only 3°C, on by now "common" 16 threads CPUs with OC for only $90 and 0 possible failure points.

Most people that buy high threads count CPUs won't buy an air cooler anyways and even if they were to do so, max temp difference would be 7°C, which is not dramatic at all.

 

But most people still have 8 threads Intel i7.

Other people currently buy only 6 cores Intel i5-9600K, only 8 cores i7-9700K or "only" 12 threads AMD Ryzen 5 3600(X).

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So why pay 60€ more for Corsair or NZXT 280 mm AiO vs. Noctua NH-D15 for only 3°C difference at same noise level + possible failure any time, if you don't find air coolers ugly/bulky and they let you plug in and remove your fans cables and RAM sticks of any hight no problems, without removing the cooler?

The only valid point that remains -> looks, at a price.

 

Other imaginary points, like lower noise and better temps of your current Corsair AiO and less stress for the mainboard PCB due to air coolers weight are simply not valid at all.

Mainboards can cope with such weight no problems.

The video proves that to have slightly better temp, AiOs have to run at least at same or higher noise levels than Noctua air cooler.

The video proves that further lowering AiO fans speed, will make them only marginally more silent than Noctua air cooler + then there will be 0°C difference for 60€ more + failure possibility.

The video proves that 6 years old Noctua fans of same size can have same noise level at much higher speed than newest fans of other brands, that have to be set to much lower speed to keep same noise level as Noctua fans, which reduces their static air pressure and reduces transported air volume. The only thing that saves these overpriced bling bling RGB AiOs is simply having greater coolant volume inside vs. Noctua NH-D15.

 

Updated Noctua cooler that will be released this year, will have greater cooling area and will come with even better and larger fans, while keeping same size.

So bye bye 3°C difference and associated/possible failure/risk of AiOs.

Even if the updated Noctua cooler will cost 10-20€ more than the current NH-D15, it will still be 50-40€ less than same performance/noise AiOs.

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If you have any hard facts/proofs that prove I'm wrong, let me see them then.

I always backup my points with hard evidence.

You always only talk and never backup your words with anything.

And like said before, I don't have my own opinion on things, where there can't be personal opinion, where only hard numbers speak and can't be interpreted in any other manner by anybody at all.

Temps, noise, reliability can't be an opinion, whatever you say.

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This has been great reading about air coolers vs AIO's I have been looking into possibly buying an AIO some time in the future its been very helpful.

 

On another note I want to ask about my mouse, I've started getting unwanted right mouse clicks in game and in general, my mouse is about 7 years old and I've played alot of arma with it so I'm wondering could this be from the mouse clickers starting to wear out or could it be a physical thing from me getting on in years.

Has anyone else had this happen to them ?

 

EDIT : Just read that According to Logitech a gaming mouse should last about 20 million clicks so at least 2 years so I think its time I got a new mouse. Sorry for going a bit off topic guys.

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With this video, Gamers Nexus (Steve) obliterated all the other youtubers and even all the sites and forums.

Before this latest video air vs. water, there was a 30 mins video only explaning how he tests + pages and pages of text and graphs on the site.

 

99% of other "tests" have flaws, starting from inconsistant thermal paste application and finishing with where, how and with what temps are measured and which conditions and after how much time, like software measurments only, not accounting for the fact that different boards manufacturers and even different boards models from same manufacturers have different brands of sensors of different quality and precision, measuring temp and/or consumption not in same spots on different boards and boards models from same manufacturer

+ not accounting for current leakage

+ not using same versions of bios, windows, drivers, bios settings, not even always same CPU model unit, even if it's still same CPU model (same CPU model, but different unit can require more/less voltage for same frequency, which will result in consumption variation between 2 same model CPUs)

+ not using most up to date CPUs to test newer coolers, but still use like 4th gen Intel CPUs with only 8 threads in 22 nm

 

All of this because most of them are just to entertain the average user and also because they don't want to work hard if people still eat all of that anyways.

Otherwise it would require them all to research much more to better understand all of the small but important details, that make all the difference + retest a lot of coolers each time if one or several variables change.

And they don't want that, since it costs time and time is money.

So better do alomst every day short and "useless" vids that don't require as much knowledge and time and still bring a lot of viewers and money.

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5 hours ago, cb65 said:

This has been great reading about air coolers vs AIO's I have been looking into possibly buying an AIO some time in the future its been very helpful.

 

On another note I want to ask about my mouse, I've started getting unwanted right mouse clicks in game and in general, my mouse is about 7 years old and I've played alot of arma with it so I'm wondering could this be from the mouse clickers starting to wear out or could it be a physical thing from me getting on in years.

Has anyone else had this happen to them ?

 

EDIT : Just read that According to Logitech a gaming mouse should last about 20 million clicks so at least 2 years so I think its time I got a new mouse. Sorry for going a bit off topic guys.

 

Everytime when you want to discuss problem with your HW, its MUST to write type of the hardware, so we know its Logitech mouse, which one?

 

Im not hardcore gamer, but im playing alot, and my last mouse lasted for 11 years (mx518 - still working), i bought razer Naga Trinity, for 3 different setup of side buttons + new features, switches, etc. After 1.5 year of using it my Naga started double clicking - left, right and scroll button - ive searched a lot and found common problem with newer Razer / Logitech mouses, they are bulding up static energy in micro switch over time, and they gonna double click / unwant click, quick solution (sounds stupid) is take deep warm breath under those buttons few time, the warm wet air will kill the static and it works again 😄

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Gaming mouse : After using many brands of gaming mice, i bought a Logitech MX 518, 10 years ago, the clicks got a little soft but the animal still does the job.

Commonly, for everyday play, I use a Logitech G502 Hero which by its weight, its shape, its grip corresponds well to my style of play.

I treat my mouse like a weapon, I clean it regularly, I get rid of the dust pads and I check that no obstacle exists in front of the sensor.

 

Water cooling : From experience, I returned to air cooling. I tried water cooling, my current analysis is that it is a false good idea for a personal computer.
In one of the companies where I worked, a long time ago, we used liquid cooling on our mainframe, the gain in place in the room was enormous, but the cooling device 4 stages higher was monumental. 

Anyway, in the end it was very effective.
Much later, I tried water cooling with an AIO Corsair on my gaming PC. The results were very mixed, it works but ...

- it was not silent, in fact more noisy than the Noctua it replaces

- it was no more efficient than the Noctua it replaces

- it need air cooling of the socket/VRM area

 

In the end, we're probably on the wrong track by concentrating our efforts on cooling the processor. It is the graphics card that is currently the real hot spot.

From my point of view, these too long cooling solutions that disperse hot air throughout the case "sont un cautère sur une jambe de bois" ... a band aid on a prosthetic leg.

 

 

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@oldbearthat was also partially my point.

Water cooling can significantly decreas3 temps and also further lower noise level, but for this to happen, it must be custom water cooling that can like 700€ and more, for like 200 MHz.

The total cost overweights temp, noise and performance gains and you still have failure risk and need of surveillance and maintenance.

 

Custom loops for like 300-400€ result in ~ same temps as AiOs.

 

AiOs... not even need to talk about them.

Only aesthetic side, for a price premium, but still failure risk, even if not that high.

Possible failure risk results in need to always additionally have an air cooler (another added cost) or if you don't have it, if your AiO fails, you will have to RMA it and wait a relatively long time for replacement, and without possibility to use your PC.

But I doubt somebody would stay completely without PC for more than 3 days and will be forced to order an air cooler anyways.

So why not order an air cooler directly, instead of an AiO, save money buying air and additional money and bad mood resulting from possible AiO failure and only 3°C difference, but 0 worries, not only for years to come, but for further PCs to come.

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Here is a video that reflects perfectly the current situation air vs. AiOs and even custom water.

Watch and listen till the end of the video, please.

 

Only 4°C difference for Noctua NH-D15 vs. custom 360 mm water for like 300€ or more.

 

Pay attention to how quietly runs the custom water cooling, thanks to the newest Noctua 120 mm fans.

Updated Noctua cooler that will come with more cooling area will not only reduce this 3-4°C gap vs. AiOs or custom water, but most importantly will finally come stock with these updated Noctua fans that are whisper quiet.

I think we will see the middle 140 mm fan replaced by the updated version and the existing latest Noctua 120 mm fan in front, instead of another 140 mm fan, like it's the case now on the NH-D15.

 

So we will finally have whisper quiet air cooler and virtually same temp as a custom 360 mm water cooler.

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Thanks for the replies guys.

 

3 hours ago, Chimere said:

 

Everytime when you want to discuss problem with your HW, its MUST to write type of the hardware, so we know its Logitech mouse, which one?

 

The mouse I use is a Sharkoon Fireglider.

 

Whats happening is its doesn't seem to be supporting the weight of my right clicker finger anymore and seems to be very easy to depress it, I tend to rest my finger ever so slightly on it so I thought that maybe the clicker buttons have worn out. Could this be possible ?

 

41 minutes ago, oldbear said:

I use a Logitech G502 Hero.

 

 

I'm looking at getting either a Logitech G502 Hero or the Gigabyte AORUS M5.

 

Any thought on those two would be helpful, there about the same price.

 

Cheers.

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13 minutes ago, cb65 said:

Whats happening is its doesn't seem to be supporting the weight of my right clicker finger anymore and seems to be very easy to depress it, I tend to rest my finger ever so slightly on it so I thought that maybe the clicker buttons have worn out. Could this be possible ?

 

Yeah it completely sounds like the switch is damaged, if its still under warranty, try to RMA it, if not and you are handy, you can try to repair mouse on your own, at first i would try to dissassemble  the mouse and clean it, if it doesnt help i would try to repair the switch - but its risky, those switches are really small. Video bellow demonstrates how to repair double clicking switch, but it can help you imagine how repair can be done.

 

 

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@cb65

I used to have a mouse, where i had a damaged switch, that double clicked quite often.

i opened it up, and found, that them metal plate that in the trigger was cracked.

i don't actually remember if i was able to fix it with that part from an other mouse, but i think that was only my plan back then.

if you decide to check this in your mouse, and find that this is the case, you could try to find a compatible trigger on the internet, and exchange only the metal plate. (so no soldering)

 

if you decide that it's not worth the hassle, and that you'll simply buy a new mouse, those are my thoughts about the G502 Protheus Core (1st gen G502 i think) i'm using for some years now.

 

-at first is it took me some time to get used to that one trigger for my thumb. it is used to switch the dpi to a different value for the time you click it.

now i'm using it all the time, but you might as well unbind it.

-the G502 has a high range of dpi, but you probably wont need half of it.

-it has an adjustable weight. i used to prefer heavy mice, but found, that i was less accurate with those, so i took all extra weights out. i still know lighter mice though.

-after some years of excessive use some of the rubber parts where i grab the mouse have worn out a little.

-if you are willing to pay the money for it you will get a good mouse. i can't tell if others are better, but i'm happy with mine.

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My new PC case supports 3 120mm fans on the top, with regards to air flow are they suppose to suck air in or blow air out ?

 

Sorry for the noob question.

 

A mate keeps telling me there suppose to blow the heat out but I thought they would suck air in.

 

Cheers.

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@cb65

 

This is how the airflow is oriented in my Corsair Carbide Air 740 case.

 

2x140 mm bottom fans blowing fresh air directly onto 3x92 mm GPU fans

1x140 mm rear fan blwoing fresh air directly onto vertically placed mainboard VRMs and onto the air cooler

2x140 mm top fans blowing fresh air directly onto horizontally placed mainboard VRMs, onto the air cooler and onto RAM sticks

3x140 mm front fans blowing hot air out from the case

 

Have almost no dust inside the case, because of the overpressure, since more air is sucked in than sucked out

AwtTrrA.jpg

 

 

 

 

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@Groove_C Wow thanks mate that's exactly what I needed to know.

 

I've always had the rear fan on my PC's blowing out and the front fans sucking in, never had cases with top fan support until the new one I have now.

 

Cheers.

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@Groove_C I've fitted a Gigabyte ATC700 CPU cooler in my new build and I'm assuming the airflow direction of its fans will be from front of the case to the back of the case so will having the back fan blowing in directly against the coolers fan flow be a problem especially being so close to each other ?

 

Cheers.

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