Will-my-pc-run-Arma3? What cpu/gpu to get? What settings? What system specifications?

[Reezo 45]

Many thanks for that link. I have it bookmarked and it will be where I will spend most of time before New Year's Eve.

 

Here is some pics of this evening... a big thanks to my wife who helped me with cable management and by getting everything right (by pure chance.. or actual modding knowledge? Suspence..) on the first answer, when I kept saying "no, no it's gotta be.." and she was (as usual) "I am telling you this goes there." It did go there. Women.

 

... still missing the new cpu and RAM but here goes!

https://imgur.com/a/fPmPltE

[Groove_C 267]

@Reezo positioning the GPU vertically is so wrong. It barely can breath, because it's too close to glass side pannel.

It will have negative effect on its temp and temp affects directly GPU frequency.

One mounts a GPU vertically, only if it's water-cooled.

[Reezo 45]

About the vertical GPU, I used it as a show off but I am aware of that @Groove_C but I found the riser in the case and I was like OMG this is a first one for me. I promise I will start the campaign streaming on Twitch with my GPU horizontal, scout promise? 🙂

 

Thanks for the link on the RAM page, I'll spend New Year's eve running tests and reading the 890 pages, all in German. It might or not be the end of my mental sanity.

 

PS: Darn it looks cool, vertical, tho.. ok ok ok I'll put it back..

[Tankbuster 1733]

How close is it to the side panel?

[Reezo 45]

3 hours ago, Tankbuster said:

How close is it to the side panel?

 

Hard to say by memory, it looks like around 5cm? 3cm? I've mounted GPUs horizontally on small cases where the card was almost looking at the floor, but it's also true there were ventilation holes on the bottom (in this case it's closed glass). There are however 3x 120mm fans blowing air in that direction (notice me trying to justify the cool looks by providing vague info ;)) although I know it won't mean much if the glass covers the air intake.. 

 

Bottom line I know thermals will be better when horizontal, there's little chance they are going to be worse than vertical. I could actually benchmark this! Look at me, next up: long hair, beard, nitrogen and a YouTube channel!

[chrisb 196]

13 hours ago, Reezo said:

Many thanks for that link. I have it bookmarked and it will be where I will spend most of time before New Year's Eve.

 

Here is some pics of this evening... a big thanks to my wife who helped me with cable management and by getting everything right (by pure chance.. or actual modding knowledge? Suspence..) on the first answer, when I kept saying "no, no it's gotta be.." and she was (as usual) "I am telling you this goes there." It did go there. Women.

 

... still missing the new cpu and RAM but here goes!

https://imgur.com/a/fPmPltE

 

I like the 'cat', doesn't look like he/she has been overclocked.. ;)

[Tankbuster 1733]

5 hours ago, Reezo said:

 

Hard to say by memory, it looks like around 5cm? 3cm? I've mounted GPUs horizontally on small cases where the card was almost looking at the floor, but it's also true there were ventilation holes on the bottom (in this case it's closed glass). There are however 3x 120mm fans blowing air in that direction (notice me trying to justify the cool looks by providing vague info ;)) although I know it won't mean much if the glass covers the air intake.. 

 

Bottom line I know thermals will be better when horizontal, there's little chance they are going to be worse than vertical. I could actually benchmark this! Look at me, next up: long hair, beard, nitrogen and a YouTube channel!

5 CM is plenty if that's a blower card. At that distance, the restrictions in airflow are negligable.

[Reezo 45]

12 hours ago, chrisb said:

I like the 'cat', doesn't look like he/she has been overclocked.. 😉

Thanks! She is 14 and a bit of a chonker, so in that sense she's been a bit over the clock.. glad you liked the cat 🙂

 

9 hours ago, Tankbuster said:

5 CM is plenty if that's a blower card. At that distance, the restrictions in airflow are negligible.

I might have written 5 cm but it could be less, I'll double-check. Anyway I should really benchmark this.

 

UPDATE:

I just did a quick RealBench OpenCL test and the GPU was running from 27C idle to 51C, while sitting in a vertical position.

 

 

I know, nothing too scientific or long but at least that was quick 🙂 More soon..

[oldbear 390]

So far, it looks good even if the distance between the card and the glass panel is less than 5 cm and closer to 3 cm.

From my point of view, positioning the graphics card vertically has several advantages, on the one hand it will prevent the graphics card from sagging, on the other hand, it will move it away as a heat source from the rest of the configuration. What is important is that the entire case is well ventilated the 3x 120mm fans are going to help.

[Reezo 45]

I just did some measurements and it looks more like.. shy of 3cm from the glass. I still think it's not that big of a deal considering there is 3x 120mm taking air in and 3x 120mm taking it out (two of which blowing vertically up through the radiator). These are just honest guesses of mine, no expert here.

 

Two more things:

 

1) Memory is here:

https://imgur.com/a/gtQ2M44

 

Looking good so far but I had some post problems when running the XMP profile, however it's nothing to be scared of - as of yet, basically the timings are not what they will run at, and 3600MHz is not what I'll have for sure (but lower instead). The whole board is running on "Auto" at the moment so no big deal.

 

2) I wrote Deepcool about the AIO Pump behavior:

Quote

Currently, I have the radiator fans connected to CPU_FAN on my motherboard (Asus Rog Strix x470-Gaming) and the pump connected to CPU_OPT.

1) Would it be better if I connect the pump to the AIO_PUMP connector on the motherboard?
2) Is the water pump better used if REGULATED or if kept at 100% all the time? In PWM or DC?

 

 

And they replied:

Quote

1) No matter you connect the pump to the AIO_PUMP connector or CPU_OPT connector, It is doable.
2) The pump should keep running 100% all the time in PWM

 

 

.. I thought AIO_PUMP at 100% would wear the pump down in the long run? I had it set to something like:

• 20C = 20%
• 50C = 75%
• 60C = 100%

I am sure you guys in here can elaborate on that, thanks!

 

 

[Reezo 45]

All right, here's the reports for RAM, including Taiphoon Burner reports and DRAM Calculator suggestions (I did put several configurations, you'll see..)

https://imgur.com/a/IQ8QLIw

 

One of the 4 sticks does not want to work with any other stick. If I use it, the system stays pitch black. I am thinking it's a defective stick. If you have any idea, feel free to chime in.

 

With 4 sticks, should I go as low as 2800 MHz and still keep the DRAM and SOC Voltages up? I read that dual channel won't go further than 2800 on a Ryzen + for now..

[oldbear 390]

The fact is that the Ryzen platform is hyper sensitive to memory specifications. I myself have done a lot of experiments with barrettes that did not want to work at all or were limited otherwise to their native frequency. It really looked like a lottery.
With the latest version of the BIOS, and the latest AGESA the number of usable DDR4 modules has considerably increased, but there is always the risk that the modules will not function in a nominal way, especially when 4 slots are populated.

 

You must have a look at the QVL list on G.Skill site, it seems that this series [F4-3600C17D-16GVK as read on the pic you posted] is specifically intended for cards with an Intel chipset ... too bad!

[Reezo 45]

@oldbearI understand.. it seems kinda sensitive, yes. I can obviously return them, the alternative would be to go pick these up, tomorrow:

https://www.gskill.com/product/165/326/1562838559/F4-3200C14Q-32GTZNTrident-Z-NeoDDR4-3200MHz-CL14-14-14-34-1.35V32GB-(4x8GB)

 

More expensive, but with RGB :).. but I wonder if they will be better or not.

 

These I have seem to be in the ones that can be used with AMD:

https://community.amd.com/thread/217871

Even if that's "just" a list.

 

I found out that one of the sticks is defective: I swapped it everywhere and it does not work at all, completely sends the system to pitch black.

With 2 sticks things seem to work, I was using them at 3600 and I read that the Ryzen + is still being pulled by the neck when working at 3600, so it could easily not be the RAM's fault. I'll try and see with 3200 and some good DRAM Calculator settings if things are stable enough.

 

I definitely don't want ArmA 3 to crash mid-streaming!

PS: Getting excited to be this close to start the season! I am planning day 1 and hope to see you people in the stream as I will explicitly be thanking you for the great help! yay.

[oldbear 390]

In fact with the different twists and turns of this story I have a little trouble knowing what the current build is made of.

Would it be possible to summarize the components?

 

The G.Skill TridentZ NEO serie has been released with a "built for Ryzen 3000" tag, it must works on an AMD build !

I am currently using G.Skill TridentZ NEO 16 GB (2x8GB) 3600 C16 [16-19-19-39] on my Arma3 R5 3600X/ASUS TUF B450M-Pro Gaming test platform, it works!

 

[Reezo 45]

Sure! This is exactly what I have at the moment..

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/Wss7wh

 

Spoiler

CPU: *AMD Ryzen 7 2700X 3.7 GHz 8-Core Processor  ($240.22 @ Amazon)
CPU Cooler: Deepcool Castle 240 RGB 69.34 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler
Thermal Compound: ARCTIC MX4 4 g Thermal Paste  ($8.59 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: Asus ROG STRIX X470-F Gaming ATX AM4 Motherboard
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws V 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3600 Memory  ($74.98 @ Amazon)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws V 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3600 Memory  ($74.98 @ Amazon)
Storage: Samsung 850 EVO-Series 250 GB 2.5" Solid State Drive
Storage: Western Digital Black NVMe 1 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive  ($269.98 @ Amazon)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Black 750 GB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($134.99 @ Amazon)
Video Card: Asus GeForce RTX 2070 SUPER 8 GB STRIX GAMING Video Card
Case: Phanteks Evolv X ATX Mid Tower Case  ($194.99 @ Amazon)
Power Supply: Thermaltake Berlin 630 W 80+ Certified ATX Power Supply  ($147.00 @ Amazon)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 10 Pro OEM 64-bit  ($142.99 @ Amazon)
Case Fan: Thermaltake Riing 12 RGB 40.6 CFM 120 mm Fan  ($23.99 @ Amazon)
Case Fan: Thermaltake Riing 12 RGB Triple Pack 40.6 CFM 120 mm Fans  ($59.99 @ Amazon)
Monitor: Acer Nitro VG270U 27.0" 2560x1440 75 Hz Monitor
Keyboard: Das Keyboard Model S Professional Wired Standard Keyboard  ($119.00 @ Amazon)
Mouse: SteelSeries Rival 110 Wired Optical Mouse  ($41.54 @ Amazon)

 

[oldbear 390]

It seems that the Trident Z Neo 32GB (4x8GB) DDR4 kit 3200MHz CL14-14-14-34 1.35V [F4-3200C14Q-32GTZN] , even if it is not referenced on the QVL list for the Asus ROG STRIX X470-F MoBo, is indeed present in the G.Skill QVL list, here : https://www.gskill.com/qvl/165/326/1562838559/F4-3200C14Q-32GTZN-Qvl

 

[Reezo 45]

Good to know, thanks for the good find!

 

I tried to fit a third stick and now I am in Windows, all good, at 2800 MHz, same XMP (DOCP) timing as the 3600.

CPU-Z says I am in Dual Channel memory mode, I suppose that means my DIMM_A1 DIMM A_2 are still in dual channel and the third stick in DIMM_B1 is doing fine on its own..

 

I might run DRAM Calculator and see what kind of timings I could get with 4x8 instead of 2x8, I still believe these sticks are going to work and deliver good performance, maybe it was just me pretending I could run 4x8 at 3600 out of the box in a Ryzen +.. - heck even 2x8 at 3600 needs tuning on this 2700x to be stable, no wonder 4x3600 was a no-go.

 

Just found this test by SK's Hardware Review and it includes ArmA 3:

 

Seems like ArmA 3 loves RAM speed..

[Groove_C 267]

I don't believe that the sticks must be "AMD specific", which is non-sense, since exactly same Samsung chips are used in both cases. May be some sub-timings can affect this. But if you don't apply XMP and enter manually the timings you need, it shouldn't matter.
 

It can be that your particular CPU can't handle 3600 MHz and 4 sticks.

Have you checked each RAM module separately in each slot?

To see which modules and slots work?

If the stick you say is defective, works if it's the only one you insert, then it's not the stick. It's either the mobo or CPU that can't handle it, or both, since for your mobo, 3600 MHz is the limit. And when this is the case, normally the limit frequency apply to only 2 sticks, not to 4 sticks population.

There are "AMD specific" FlareX sticks from G.Skill with 3200 14-14-14-34 timings as well.

[HaseDesTodes 62]

5 hours ago, Reezo said:

I just did some measurements and it looks more like.. shy of 3cm from the glass. I still think it's not that big of a deal considering there is 3x 120mm taking air in and 3x 120mm taking it out (two of which blowing vertically up through the radiator). These are just honest guesses of mine, no expert here.

 

Two more things:

 

[...]

 

2) I wrote Deepcool about the AIO Pump behavior:

 

And they replied:

 

"1) No matter you connect the pump to the AIO_PUMP connector or CPU_OPT connector, It is doable.
2) The pump should keep running 100% all the time in PWM"

 

.. I thought AIO_PUMP at 100% would wear the pump down in the long run? I had it set to something like:

• 20C = 20%
• 50C = 75%
• 60C = 100%

I am sure you guys in here can elaborate on that, thanks!

 

 

 

0) The space between the GPU fans and the case should be more than enough.

I just made a quick calculation, and the area on the sides is at least 3 times as big as the area of all three fans combined.

So there should be no chocking from that.

 

2) The way i understand this, is that you shouldn't change the power setting of the pump manually if you connect it to a PWM pluck (4 Pins).

That way the mobo will take control of the rpm, just as it would for a fan.

 

Not sure if this is correct though, i'T just what came to my mind first.

[Groove_C 267]

I know a lot of people, that use non "AMD specific" G.Skill Trident Z and Ripjaws V on their Ryzen 3xxx and with XMP 3600 MHz and more they work just fine.

If a kit is not in the QVL, it simply means, that it wasn't tested.

One simply can't test absolutely all existing sticks and their combinations.

Also the QVL appears when the mobo gets releases. If there are new sticks that come out after this, they won't be in the QVL, most likely.

[Reezo 45]

Thanks @HaseDesTodes:

 

1 minute ago, HaseDesTodes said:

 

0) The space between the GPU fans and the case should be more than enough.

I just made a quick calculation, and the area on the sides is at least 3 times as big as the area of all three fans combined.

So there should be no chocking from that.

 

I did a quick test with the case open (no glass in front of the GPU) and I am running 3-4 degrees colder with the case open, vs the same vertically-placed GPU with the glass closed. I guess this would be the same for maybe all situations where you open the case, rather than based on the position.. just a guess.

 

1 minute ago, HaseDesTodes said:

2) The way i understand this, is that you shouldn't change the power setting of the pump manually if you connect it to a PWM pluck (4 Pins).

That way the mobo will take control of the rpm, just as it would for a fan.

 

Interesting, I thought they meant "make it run at 100% speed all the time" but maybe they meant "make it run in a way that it can use its full range of potential, from zero to 100". Now I need to ask them again 🙂 and report back. It seems weird that a water pump "must' run at 100% strength all the time..

[Reezo 45]

1 minute ago, Groove_C said:

I know a lot of people, that use non "AMD specific" G.Skill Trident Z and Ripjaws V on their Ryzen 3xxx and with XMP 3600 MHz and more they work just fine.

If a kit is not in the QVL, it simply means, that it wasn't tested.

One simply can't test absolutely all existing sticks and their combinations.

Also the QVL appears when the mobo gets releases. If there are new sticks that come out after this, they won't be in the QVL, most likely.

 

True. In the end there's only real field testing.

 

I am thinking 2x8 at 3600 will make ArmA 3 happier than 4x2800 but I might be wrong on this one..especially after one hour of playing.

[oldbear 390]

Groove_C : I have still a collection of Balistix and  HyperX sticks not working on Ryzens used now on Intel builds and a lot of RAM return receipts to the seller due to non-functioning.

 

Reezo : the gap in performances benching Arma3 between Corsair LPX 3200 C16 and G.Skill TridentZ NEO 3600 C16 is 1/3 FPS in YAAB, and invisible in game.

[Groove_C 267]

@oldbear not working with Ryzen 2xxx or 3xxx?

Defective RAM sticks I also have had this. Can happen.

[Groove_C 267]

Also none of sticks I used in the past and also present sticks are not in the QVL of my mobo and certainly not at timings I set them to, but everything works just fine.