Will-my-pc-run-Arma3? What cpu/gpu to get? What settings? What system specifications?

[HaseDesTodes 62]

42 minutes ago, Groove_C said:

With RAM and mobo you have now, i7-5775C wouldn't have helped much, if at all. Because only people who will OC it to the moon buy it. And they already have very good RAM and mobo. Without very good RAM and proper OC, which requires proper mobo and cooler, no point in buying it.

I'm still willing to buy it though.

 

dude, that was just a allusion to your failure when you got one. because you were talking about wasting money for nothing.

i'm not sure what causes you to not understand half of the stuff i'm writing, but i'll make sure to not use any form of irony pointing towards you or giving you the option to misinterpret anything i write.

i hope it's only the language barrier that's causing this.

[Groove_C 267]

@HaseDesTodes Oh, so you were talking about me failing to delid properly the i7-5775C? I already forgot about it, sorry. But it was really heartbreaking for me to spend 300€ for used CPU, wait a whole month for it and then... well, you know.

And the most stupid part about it is that I've delidded it properly. It was during the process of cleaning the rests of silicon that I've damaged it, with a plastic toothpick 🤦‍♂️

[migueldarius 10]

Hi guys, I´m searching for a cheap PC, my budget is around 500€ and I wish me move Arma 3 with at least 40 - 50 fps with everything in ultra and the fog at 5 km. Would be awesome to know CPUs, RAMs and Graphics that can do this at that price amount.

[oldbear 390]

So far, I haven't find a Ryzen 3000 review including Arma3. 

So it will be great to get some reports from Arma3 players having build or update rigs based upon Ryzen 3000.

 

I agree, I don't feel any need to upgrade from my i7-7700K/Z270/GTX 1060 6Go/16 Go DDR4 3200MHz game#1 rig nor the i7-4790/Z87/GTX 1060 3Go/16 Go DDR3 1866MHz game#2 rig.

Nevertheless, It will be great to get some hints and reports on PC based on entry level R5 3600/R5 3600X build on previous X470/B450 MoBo generation which may be the target of a lot of players.

 

For the previous generation the R5 2600 has been one of the best sellers, the R5 3600 seems a good candidate for 2019.

On the other side, it seems we must wait until Q1 2020 to get B550 MoBo.

So how to fill the gap ?

 

@migueldarius   Hi!

In fact on a budget, you have to choose between extend view distance over the 3800m of the Ultra settings an a playable level of FPS

 

[Groove_C 267]

@oldbear The problem with most X470/B450 is the lack of USB BIOS flashback option. So you have to have 1st/2nd gen Ryzen to flash the new BIOS before you can install the new Ryzen ☹️

[KrazyBee 8]

11 minutes ago, oldbear said:

So far, I haven't find a Ryzen 3000 review including Arma3. 

So it will be great to get some reports from Arma3 players having build or update rigs based upon Ryzen 3000.

 

I agree, I don't feel any need to upgrade from my i7-7700K/Z270/GTX 1060 6Go/16 Go DDR4 3200MHz game#1 rig nor the i7-4790/Z87/GTX 1060 3Go/16 Go DDR3 1866MHz game#2 rig.

Nevertheless, It will be great to get some hints and reports on PC based on entry level R5 3600/R5 3600X build on previous X470/B450 MoBo generation which may be the target of a lot of players.

 

For the previous generation the R5 2600 has been one of the best sellers, the R5 3600 seems a good candidate for 2019.

On the other side, it seems we must wait until Q1 2020 to get B550 MoBo.

So how to fill the gap ?

 

@migueldarius   Hi!

In fact on a budget, you have to choose between extend view distance over the 3800m of the Ultra settings an a playable level of FPS

 

here are the list of mobo that u can flash bios without 1st and 2nd ryzen 

this is the info i copied form amd subreddit....

I made a list of (B350, B450, X370, and X470) motherboards with USB BIOS Flashback

This feature allows your to update the BIOS without a processor, memory, or video card.

USB BIOS Flashback comes in handy if you are, for example, going to use 3rd gen Ryzen and the motherboard doesn't have the updated BIOS to support the processor.

These information was obtain from the motherboard manufacturers' websites and may be incomplete or inaccurate.

Leave comment below if want to report corrections.

ASRock (BIOS Flashback)

None!

ASUS (USB BIOS Flashback)

ASUS Crosshair VI Extreme

ASUS Crosshair VI Hero

ASUS Crosshair VI Hero (Wi-Fi AC)

ASUS Crosshair VII Hero

ASUS Crosshair VII Hero (Wi-Fi)

Gigabyte (Q-Flash Plus)

None!

MSI (Flash BIOS Button) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTkXunUAriE]

MSI B450 Gaming Plus

MSI B450 Gaming Pro Carbon AC

MSI B450 Tomahawk

MSI B450-A Pro

MSI B450M Bazooka Plus

MSI B450M Gaming Plus

MSI B450M Mortar

MSI B450M Mortar Titanium

MSI X370 Gaming M7 ACK

MSI X370 XPower Gaming Titanium

MSI X470 Gaming M7 AC

[oldbear 390]

@Groove_C  I had update my bench rig in purpose.

ATM, it features an R5 2600/ASUS TUF B450M Pro-Gaming/16 GB 3200MHz/RX 570.

Those parts have been bought on bargain at the lowest price except the MoBo.

I will wait a bit for updated BIOS/AGESA to go for a R5 3600.

[Groove_C 267]

@oldbear this rig is not for 25-30 FPS anymore 😉

[oldbear 390]

@migueldarius

In order to give an idea of what you can get on a budget build I have done some YAAB runs on my bench rig

 

 

Standard settings in Arma3 are using 1800 m overall visibility, as previously said Ultra settings goes for 3800m.

Let's remember that Overall Visibility in video settings is not a graphic card setting, it's a 100% processor parameter due to the way Arma3 RealVirtuality Engine works.

So as I said previously you will have to choose between Visibility and FPS.

 

So what was in the basket ?

AMD Ryzen 5 2600 Wraith Stealth Edition 137€

Ventirad AMD Wraith Prism rev.A 26€

ASUS TUF B450M-PRO GAMING 120€

SAPPHIRE SAPPHIRE PULSE RADEON RX 570 4G 150€

Corsair Vengeance LPX 16Go (2x8Go) DDR4 3200MHz 100€

Samsung SSD 970 EVO NVMe M.2 500 Go 110€

 

Edited July 11, 2019 by oldbear
I am not a polar bear but I still suffer from the heat wave

[Groove_C 267]

Have seen so fare one guy in german forum, who has switch to manual (to avoid IF switching to asynchronous mode) and has managed to push IF to 1867 MHz in synchronous mode (1:1), resulting in 1867 MHz (3733 MHz) RAM 14-15-14-36 1T with RAM voltage increase.

But he has only 2x8 GB sticks. Forget about this with 2x16 or 4x8 GB sticks.

 

Not only this is sh**ty about new Ryzen CPUs, but read this as well:

3900X has 2 interconnects (1 per chiplet) leading to the I/O die. But what we were not told, is that those 2 interconnects are merged into a single interconnect, also running at 32 bytes/cycle at 1800 MHz that connects the data fabric in the I/O Die to the Memory Controller circuitry.
That single interconnect to the memory limits Ryzen CPUs to a total 56.7GB/s between CPU Cores and the dual Channel RAM that in itself also has a theoretical Max bandwidth that matches the Infinity Fabric up to 1800 MHz.
Above that frequency, the Infinity Fabric will start to bottleneck the Installed 4000+MT/s RAM. (That aspect of Zen is in common with Zen 1 and 1+)

 

That 56.7GB/s of total end to end bandwidth also has to be shared with the GPU and it's DMA memory access requirements.
A 2080ti running at full speed is demanding upwards of 15 GB/s of data, that, while separated directly from the hardware by the kernel virtual memory management, ultimately has to come from the L3 Cache or the RAM over those physical interconnects.

That requires the CPU cores to sacrifice memory bandwidth and leads to longer CPU stalls as the cores have to wait idle for memory requests due to the reduction in available bandwidth for the CPU.

Conversely, Intel Ringbus ties L3 cache speed to the Ring topology interconnect and also transfers data at 32 bytes/cycle yet, with a Cache multiplier of x42, it gives the transport, that also has to share the bandwidth between CPU and GPU memory needs, a total theoretical bandwidth of 144GB/s providing a surplus of bandwidth that is shared between CPU and GPU to access memory.

[xaneas 11]

Hello fellow Soldiers.
I follow this Thread for a while and want to buy a new PC.

My old Pc runs on a i7-2600k, with not good fps in Arma 3.

 

I made a list and would like your opinion on it and if there is a better option.
I would take intel again, because it seems that intel is still better for gaming and i only do that.

 

Intel Core i9-9900K (would oc it)
Noctua NH-D15
ASUS ROG Maximus XI Hero
G.Skill Trident Z DIMM Kit 16GB, DDR4-3600, CL15-15-15-35
Seasonic Focus Plus Gold 850W ATX 2.4 (dunno if too much, but would have space for upgrades)

 

For the graphics i would take my gtx 1070 for the moment and would upgrade when needed.

[Groove_C 267]

@xaneas I have nothing to add. Great choice of components.

Only thing I would change is Noctua NH-D15 to Noctua NH-D15S.

Only 1 degree difference, less noise and better GPU/RAM compatibility.

 

650 W would have been more than enough for max CPU and GPU OC.

SLi and CrossFire is history.

Or 700-750 W in case if.

 

Once I thought I would buy SLi and have bought 860 W platinum and have never been able to put some load on it since. Always with fan off, because less than 60% load.

Even with almost 200 W OC'ed CPU and 350 W GTX Titan (7XX series) with modded vBIOS.

[xaneas 11]

Yes 850W is too much.

I will probably buy it next week or so, i dont think that the prices will chance much in.the near future.

 

Thanks for the feedback @Groove_C!

[HaseDesTodes 62]

1 hour ago, Groove_C said:

@xaneas I have nothing to add. Great choice of components.

are u sure you wouldn't advise to get 32GB ram? 😉

 

@xaneas

if you decide to go for 32GB ram, you wont be able run the ram with those fast timings.

the fastest 32GB kit i see for this board (on the QVL) is the G.Skill Trident Z RGB DIMM Kit 32GB, DDR4-4266, CL17-18-18-38 (F4-4266C17Q-32GTZR) which cost unfortunately around 620€ here (in Germany)

an alternative with decent timings would be G.Skill RipJaws V schwarz DIMM Kit 32GB, DDR4-3600, CL17-18-18-38 (F4-3600C17Q-32GVK) or G.Skill Trident Z silber/rot DIMM Kit 32GB, DDR4-3600, CL17-18-18-38 (F4-3600C17Q-32GTZ)

both for around 300€ at the moment.

 

 

[xaneas 11]

Yes 32GB with good timings have a high price.

The Kit that i would buy is 2x8GB, so i can upgrade it to 32GB with the same Kit if needed or not?

[Groove_C 267]

@xaneas yes, you can and most certainly will, after certain time.

If some kits are not in QVL of the motherboard, it doesn't necessairily mean that they will not work. It means that this kits were not tested on this mobo.

It's simply impossible to test Evrey existing kit from evrey manufacturer on evrey board.

What I can say for sure is that this 3600 CL15 kit is disapprearing now as I see and you won't be able to add later same one.

 

So may be with some money saved from not buying 850 W PSU + some added you can buy directly 32 GB (2× this kit) or look for alternatives.

 

My kit is not on the QVL of my Hero VII and I have 2 of these kits with lowest possible timings for the frequency they do from manufacturer with XMP profil and have further sharpened every single timing.

[xaneas 11]

Oh i havent seen this.

Maybe because the new "G.Skill Trident Z Neo" series is coming this month?

The new rams have a  "3600 2x8Gb 3600 14-15-15-35 Kit", maybe i wait for this.

Or a "16-16-16-36 3600 2x16GB Kit".

I have to look at the price when it comes out.

[Groove_C 267]

Would have been very wise from you to wait a little bit to see the prices and then make decision.

 

3600 14-15-15-35 would have been very very nice, but if not you always have 3600 CL16 as cheaper and go to alternative.

 

Btw, Hero XI has T-Topology and thus better to run 4x8 GB than 2x16 GB for best frequency and timings.

[migueldarius 10]

On 7/12/2019 at 12:22 AM, oldbear said:

@migueldarius

In order to give an idea of what you can get on a budget build I have done some YAAB runs on my bench rig

 

 

Standard settings in Arma3 are using 1800 m overall visibility, as previously said Ultra settings goes for 3800m.

Let's remember that Overall Visibility in video settings is not a graphic card setting, it's a 100% processor parameter due to the way Arma3 RealVirtuality Engine works.

So as I said previously you will have to choose between Visibility and FPS.

 

So what was in the basket ?

AMD Ryzen 5 2600 Wraith Stealth Edition 137€

Ventirad AMD Wraith Prism rev.A 26€

ASUS TUF B450M-PRO GAMING 120€

SAPPHIRE SAPPHIRE PULSE RADEON RX 570 4G 150€

Corsair Vengeance LPX 16Go (2x8Go) DDR4 3200MHz 100€

Samsung SSD 970 EVO NVMe M.2 500 Go 110€

 

Then... I would wish me FPS.

[Valken 621]

For those who have slower than desired RAM, there is an option and that is to downclock the RAM speed and latency. I saw a post where someone claimed 2400 CL11 RAM and dropped it to 1600 CL7 which ran faster:

 

https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/gaming-benchmarks-ddr4-2133-mhz-vs-ddr4-3000-mhz-core-i7-6700k.231776/

 

Quote

 

"From what I understand, it is not just ram speed but CAS latency. .

RAM latency is more important than speed. Speed is defined by how fast you accomplish a task, not by how many tasks you can accomplish ''at all''. It's like comparing Formula 1 car vs. any supercar. Who gives a shit if supercar can reach higher top speed if it will be 40 % slower in a race track??

That being said

I've tested DDR3 2400 MHz CL11-13-13 VS DDR3 1600 MHz CL7-7-7 and ye, DDR3 1600 MHz CL7 was way faster."

 

 

Give this a try and benchmark to see but note other non-latency sensitive usage may suffer. Ideally there would a be program to temporary set the RAM speed and latency before launching ARMA and restoring it to default after exiting.

 

Quote

 

3900X has 2 interconnects (1 per chiplet) leading to the I/O die. But what we were not told, is that those 2 interconnects are merged into a single interconnect, also running at 32 bytes/cycle at 1800 MHz that connects the data fabric in the I/O Die to the Memory Controller circuitry.
That single interconnect to the memory limits Ryzen CPUs to a total 56.7GB/s between CPU Cores and the dual Channel RAM that in itself also has a theoretical Max bandwidth that matches the Infinity Fabric up to 1800 MHz.
Above that frequency, the Infinity Fabric will start to bottleneck the Installed 4000+MT/s RAM. (That aspect of Zen is in common with Zen 1 and 1+)

 

That 56.7GB/s of total end to end bandwidth also has to be shared with the GPU and it's DMA memory access requirements.

 

 

This is a reason why I wonder about having Quad Channel RAM. If Ryzen 3 is limited to 1800 MHZ, then doubling this would improve performance using the same RAM at same low latency theoretically.

 

I will wait for Thread Ripper 3 to see if this is the case.

[oldbear 390]

What matters here, playing Arma3 on an AMD CPU is to get highest frequency RAM within the limits of the specifications of  CPU and Mobo.

Without going into details, RAM is characterized by the Frequency, faster is better, and the Timings for which it's easier to identify the latency, lower is better.

 

In the particular case of an AMD Ryzen processor, what you need to know is that the frequency of the internal data exchange system Infinity Fabric synchronizes with the frequency of the external RAM.

So here you need RAM with the highest frequency compatible with your CPU and Mobo.

And yes, it will be better to get the lower latency RAM sticks.

 

Edit :

While posting, I received the Corsair Vengeance  LPX 16 GB (2x8GB) 3466 MHz I was waiting for.

So I have done 3 YAAB runs with the 2 RAM sticks "en place" at 2133MHz base frequency.

Then I switch sticks and install those 2 new RAM sticks,

I tweak #1 profile in BIOS, test stability of the platform,

Once again do 3 YAAB runs with the 3466 MHz RAM.

 

 

Speaking about latency, here are the are the characteristics of the 2 kits :

- 16GB Kit (2 x 8GB) 3200MHz kit  Tested Latency 16-18-18-36 / Tested Speed 3200MHz
- 16GB Kit (2 x 8GB) 3200MHz kit  Tested Latency 16-18-18-36 / Tested Speed 3466MHz

[Tankbuster 1733]

On 7/12/2019 at 7:04 AM, Groove_C said:

That single interconnect to the memory limits Ryzen CPUs to a total 56.7GB/s between CPU Cores and the dual Channel RAM

Conversely, Intel Ringbus ~ total theoretical bandwidth of 144GB/s providing a surplus of bandwidth that is shared between CPU and GPU to access memory.

6

That's good research right there. Nice work. Why would AMD ruin a chipset that had so much potential? 😞

[oldbear 390]

AMD is ruining nothing, it's the way Infinity Fabric is working from the start and so far it's has no practical effect.

[Groove_C 267]

It has an  effect. We have a total of 56,7 GB/s bandwidth for RAM, GPU and SSDs because of infinity fabric.

A RTX 2080 Ti uses 15 GB/s + 1 or 2 NVMes and if PCI-E gen 4 and not 3, then we have total of bandwidth left like bandwidth we had in Ivy Bridge times with DDR3 + infinity fabric acting like a bottleneck, like north bridge was before a bottleneck that needed to be OC'ed to make it less apparent.

So back to stone age. Not what I would have wished in 2019.

And this is only for read/copy.

All Ryzens, lower than 3900X, have only 1 interconnect and thus only 30 GB/s write. So if your GPU+RAM+NVMe need to write something, I don't want to know the bandwidth )

 

While the work AMD has done seems to be massive, at first sight, I think for them it was not as much work as needed for Zen 3 (release next year).

I think, that while this gen Ryzen is much better than before, they've simply reworked previous gen just a little bit - smaller CPU die + separate I/O.
And they even can't communicate between them via very sophisticated link, but instead use just copper lines/wires. Very primitive.

Even Pentium D (2x Pentium 4 )were communicating in more sophisticated way between them.

I'm 1000% confident that Zen 2 is just a plug, to fill the gap, much needed to gain market share to have good customer trust/basis for upcoming Zen 3 and to get more $$$ to continue to finance Zen 3 development.

They need time for Zen 3.

There won't be Zen 2+ next year, which means it will be a new architecture/design. That's why it's called directly Zen 3 and not Zen 2+.

Like sh*tty Vista filled the gap in the wait for Win 7.

Or like GTX 7X0 that was not much different from GTX 6X0, to gain time needed to work on proper GTX 9X0.

Sure, for people with an i5 or FX it will be night and day difference.

But not for owners of i7-4790K and newer.

[oldbear 390]

As far as I know, the ways Infinity Fabric works has no practical effect related to Arma3 gameplay.

With other work loads, such as heavy video edition and perhaps high level streaming it will have probably some impact.