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Arma 3 - APEX - NEWS and SPECULATIONS

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Mhm... since the game is still on the market, BI would have to check the content to see whether or not it's borrowed from somewhere else :)

 

Monetizing stolen content is expensive... the potential lawsuit that is.

 

Plus even if BI sorts out a proper outsourcing pipeline, how would it work? The community asks for a piece of content and the modder's deliver it? Will the content be payed for? Will it fit the current creative direction?

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Agree the lack of naval/diver assets on the perfect tanoa map for this stuff makes me...  :391:

 

 

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Finlands-Patria-NEMO-120mm-mortar-boat.j

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I dont think so. They only add models / textures which we voted / which are needed. Also the modders get some money / credits. Its just that there will be still mods. But the mods are only for "special" things like ace3. If all want a glock / g36 whatever and someone made a great model why it shouldnt be in the game? BI makes some nice animations etc and it will be added in the next update. Or a system like kickstarter where we pay some money and so that the modder gets something back for the work.

I hope they find a system where modders are directly integrated in the workprogress and have the ability to influence the work on arma 3 vanillia.

If they start working like that the game will become the most expensive game ever! Basic game (+-50€) let's say you have to pay for each piece of content you want: going from a gun/camo mod for 2€ and ACE3 mod or CUP for 50€ (both mods brings the game a complete new way of playing) don't forget you have to pay for content added beside the "basic way" as it costs money to make it to vanilla, wich means for larger communities a split up as not everybody wants/can pay for all those mods and servers will be alot less active (mods needed and you need to buy them to play on them) and no new gamemodes will be developed because by that time noone is really playing ARMA and switched to another game.

You want A, i want B and others want the rest of the alphabet (we all want something in vanilla that we know will never happen) them adding them piece for piece is not how it works....... and never have worked and will work..... You cant make them(BI) force to choose 1 mod above the other, that would mean the other mod maker was not good enough while he might have been working on his first project ever on ARMA and done without non to little experience wich will than probely also be his last project), they cant just say no to nr 1 and yes to nr 2..... its all or nothing.

They (BI) make choices on their side, and they will not have come from 1 person but would have been thought over, discussed and investigated if it would be a "succes" to bring it as content in the vanilla game.

And of course they read all feedback on the forums and so on but they can't grant everybody's personal wishes without making a € out of it as is requires work, workspace, leadership, tools and so on and that all cost money and it can't be out of their own pocket.

Take a look at bipods or fire from vehicles, 2 of the most wanted wishes of the ARMA community and it did not come with ARMA or ARMA2 (OA) but only after a long time on ARMA3 because it cost time/money and resources to make that.

It's real simple:

BI brings the basics with the game with needed tools and the awesome mod makers in our ARMA community bring the game to the next level, that's what made the ARMA franchise a succes so far.

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I dont think so. They only add models / textures which we voted / which are needed. Also the modders get some money / credits. Its just that there will be still mods. But the mods are only for "special" things like ace3. If all want a glock / g36 whatever and someone made a great model why it shouldnt be in the game? BI makes some nice animations etc and it will be added in the next update. Or a system like kickstarter where we pay some money and so that the modder gets something back for the work.

 

I hope they find a system where modders are directly integrated in the workprogress and have the ability to influence the work on arma 3 vanillia.

Given that Arma 3 has alot of mileage left there are 3 things that can help it stay around longer.

 

1. BIS announces shortly a new Expansion with a year long development cycle. Perhaps if they fear no on will buy it. Have a pre order or have a Kickstarter. And development will only start when X amount is achieved. Look at the new Friday the 13th Game...it was Kick started.

Then with the new expansion Tied into some straw poll on basics wanted people will see what is planned further strengthening that there is value for money in this..  I am more then willing now this very minute to pay. They could included CQB functionality. Fast roping. Logistics Stealth kills. As new Engine updates past the content. These are just some ideas-NOT ALL!

 

2. Allow the community to start making money off Mods or at least some sorta system where we can fund someone like RHS or CUP to get people on board to create additional content. I mean I am sure we will all use some Naval units.

 

3. A new DLC. While I have been told too many times BIS is not Ubisoft or EA Dice. Surely they can rush a DLC. if Ubisoft can do a new Far Cry each year. Perhaps even consider three version of the DLC with deluxe having most assets. Now Joris van Landt once said they wont do this as it will split the community. I countered and said DLC and expansions already split the community because if you don't pay you don't get access to the gear.

 

The systems are there they have creative skilled people to do all this. Perhaps bring in more modders in a joint venture. As this may be the first time Modders and official developers work together in an open project and said modders get some benefits which adds potential new employable people BIS could hire full time and we benefit in regards to new content. Again coupled to a pre order and or kickstarter they cant lose. Money paid in advance is money secured for a project. There is no risk. Its only the community who will feel burned if we paid and they give cr@p.

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If they start working like that the game will become the most expensive game ever! Basic game (+-50€) let's say you have to pay for each piece of content you want: going from a gun/camo mod for 2€ and ACE3 mod or CUP for 50€ (both mods brings the game a complete new way of playing) don't forget you have to pay for content added beside the "basic way" as it costs money to make it to vanilla, wich means for larger communities a split up as not everybody wants/can pay for all those mods and servers will be alot less active (mods needed and you need to buy them to play on them) and no new gamemodes will be developed because by that time noone is really playing ARMA and switched to another game.

 

Like i explained.... Kickstarter. Lets say we want a glock. a modder has made a nice model with textures etc. But he wants some money (for example 10€). 3 people pay 3, one pays 1€. Tada the modder is payed and the model is ingame.

You can pay but its your choice. So people with less money dont need to pay. But if we really want the model then some people will pay for it. Its like a dlc funded by the people who wanted it.

The content in arma 3 is then free for everybody.

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Mhm... since the game is still on the market, BI would have to check the content to see whether or not it's borrowed from somewhere else :)

 

Monetizing stolen content is expensive... the potential lawsuit that is.

 

Plus even if BI sorts out a proper outsourcing pipeline, how would it work? The community asks for a piece of content and the modder's deliver it? Will the content be payed for? Will it fit the current creative direction?

I am sure there is a way models can be submitted for inspection. I have honestly googled my ass off and looked on torrent sites for 3d content. There is a bit. But most of the best stuff high poly and game ready of teh level we want in game is on Turbo squid behind a pay wall which once bought does allow integration into a Game which can be commercially sold.

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Like i explained.... Kickstarter. If lets say we want a glock. I modder has made a nice model with textures etc. But he wants some money (for example 10€). 3 people pay 3, one pays 1€. Tada the modder is payed and the model is ingame.

You can pay but its your choice. So people with less money dont need to pay. But if we really want the model then some people will pay for it. Its like a dlc funded by the people who wanted it.

The content in arma 3 is then free for everybody.

You won't a glock I want a 2035 laser canon....... you still not seeing my point.

BI delivers a (great "open source") product called ARMA, the open source meaning: the player (AKA mod maker) can create anything possible with the tools and to use them in game and a platform where he can discuss his mod and even a spot where he can upload it and make it open to public (AKA: steamworks).

This is how ARMA made his succes in the past and is still standing strong (maybe even stronger than before) with ARMA3 and not with taking everybody's personal wishes in the game, this is how BI has been working for years and now this need to change...... why? What's next? bring a knife to a battle on ARMA to kill enemy's from behind wenn sneaking up to them? Bunny hopping over fences/walls?

The ARMA concept itself has already proven that it works and even some community "mod makers" became some of the BI developers working on ARMA2 and ARMA3.

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3. A new DLC. While I have been told too many times BIS is not Ubisoft or EA Dice. Surely they can rush a DLC. if Ubisoft can do a new Far Cry each year. Perhaps even consider three version of the DLC with deluxe having most assets. Now Joris van Landt once said they wont do this as it will split the community. I countered and said DLC and expansions already split the community because if you don't pay you don't get access to the gear

 

Solid argument and to a certain extent I do agree, but a couple weaknesses

Firstly: Rushing is not the right word. I know what you meant but rushing would imply that it is released as a complete 1.0 product when in reality it's more appropriate for dev branch staging. Nobody wants that.

Secondly: Splitting the community, not really a large issue since most people who play Arma 3 any really significant amount already own the DLC pack or Heli & Marks. As for Apex splitting it, maybe, but I'd argue that the vast, vast majority of players will buy apex anyways, especially once life, KOTH, and wasteland servers start going up. As much as people rail on wasteland, it is a good way to have accessible PvP combat.

 

While I am going to be annoyed about Apex splitting A3 initially, I think the value proposition and the fact that so many servers will be running Tanoa, and so many units will demand you have it, it will be offset it to the point that it will be seen like Arma 2+OA, where apex edition becomes the version newcomers buy just like combined operations did. And given how much the individual components of apex edition are (Arma 3 $40, Apex $35, Karts $2, heli $12, Marks $12, $101, with DLC bundle it goes down to $95), $70 compared to buying everything else separately starts to look really good to a newcomer.

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If they start working like that the game will become the most expensive game ever! Basic game (+-50€) let's say you have to pay for each piece of content you want: going from a gun/camo mod for 2€ and ACE3 mod or CUP for 50€ (both mods brings the game a complete new way of playing) don't forget you have to pay for content added beside the "basic way" as it costs money to make it to vanilla, wich means for larger communities a split up as not everybody wants/can pay for all those mods and servers will be alot less active (mods needed and you need to buy them to play on them) and no new gamemodes will be developed because by that time noone is really playing ARMA and switched to another game.

You want A, i want B and others want the rest of the alphabet (we all want something in vanilla that we know will never happen) them adding them piece for piece is not how it works....... and never have worked and will work..... You cant make them(BI) force to choose 1 mod above the other, that would mean the other mod maker was not good enough while he might have been working on his first project ever on ARMA and done without non to little experience wich will than probely also be his last project), they cant just say no to nr 1 and yes to nr 2..... its all or nothing.

They (BI) make choices on their side, and they will not have come from 1 person but would have been thought over, discussed and investigated if it would be a "succes" to bring it as content in the vanilla game.

And of course they read all feedback on the forums and so on but they can't grant everybody's personal wishes without making a € out of it as is requires work, workspace, leadership, tools and so on and that all cost money and it can't be out of their own pocket.

Take a look at bipods or fire from vehicles, 2 of the most wanted wishes of the ARMA community and it did not come with ARMA or ARMA2 (OA) but only after a long time on ARMA3 because it cost time/money and resources to make that.

It's real simple:

BI brings the basics with the game with needed tools and the awesome mod makers in our ARMA community bring the game to the next level, that's what made the ARMA franchise a succes so far.

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But there is the problem it took years to do those two thing right or wrong? And if the engine doesn't support it like 2 primary weapons it looks odd. Again you saying mooders finish their Game? Then allow modders to make money off their work. If not BIS needs to start taking wishes more seriously with a faster turn around rate. Please don't now say BIS aint EA. They have more staff and can do more. You assume a small company cant create awesome stuff with a high turn around rate. You imply they this rag tag company that cant punch above its weight class. Lets be honest what did BIS expect when they said no women or Naval units or reskins. I don't even work for them and we all know its such a touchy subject that there will be a backlash. People are more informed and expect more.

 

Also you say if BI started selling base game for X and mooders started selling there wares it will be the most expensive game ever. Its already expensive for modders who pay to mod. They have costs doing it which judging from say RHS and CUP its almost like a full time Job. It does cost them.

 

Secondly you cannot assume or imply and make that decision for me if I want to blow an expansions worth on money on 20 M16's that have slight tonal colour changes its my right...sorry. And there is also a split already in the gaming community your hobby costs money. To have a decent rig to run Arma or a new next gen console with a new swanky flat screen. These all cost money so you saying we cant charge because people don't have money. No one said its your right to play games. its a hobby you pay for.

 

You want A, i want B and others want the rest of the alphabet Well again assuming there can be a consensus on what will benefit everyone. Women wanted. no reskins. New vest models. CSAT campaign. Naval units Fast roping Civvies and Civvies module. Props. New fast attack jet. Amphibious Tracked support. More weapons or vehicles. Better AI. Better AI driving. replacement of Action Menu. I am sure these covered most. Simple read the forums know the wants structure and work to that.

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Besides the kickstarter, what would it cost to port a gun (or what ever) from a mod to A3 vanilla..... 10€ for the mod maker...... the kickstarter did pay that price..... we need to pay for All the other costs to port it ingame....... don't forget they will "fine tune" it to make it A3 vanilla compatible wich cost money and for that WE are going to be paying a price like a DLC! So not only the kickstarter wich 3 guys paid for.

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I hope they find a system where modders are directly integrated in the workprogress and have the ability to influence the work on arma 3 vanillia.

They did; did you not see PuFu's role in building up Tanoa?
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24 hours before the PC gaming show and the release date of Tanoa!!!

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The current system works fine as it is. Play mods free, support them on patreon if you feel the quality is high enought that you should be buying it. If mods started being added as official DLC, not only would it just be a one-time buy for most people which would in the long run stifle the flow of funds for creators, it would also have very negative consequences related to PR, due to the fact that content that was once free you would now ahve to pay money for. And given the elready free distribution, people would simply illicitly spread the old folders around to get past it. I had a long conversation about Falcon BMS potentially being charged money for, going from free to paid would not work in these cases, the creators would get hate, and make no money. BIS can get away with it because they sell the game itself and never offered it free, or will.

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Solid argument and to a certain extent I do agree, but a couple weaknesses

Firstly: Rushing is not the right word. I know what you meant but rushing would imply that it is released as a complete 1.0 product when in reality it's more appropriate for dev branch staging. Nobody wants that.

Secondly: Splitting the community, not really a large issue since most people who play Arma 3 any really significant amount already own the DLC pack or Heli & Marks. As for Apex splitting it, maybe, but I'd argue that the vast, vast majority of players will buy apex anyways, especially once life, KOTH, and wasteland servers start going up. As much as people rail on wasteland, it is a good way to have accessible PvP combat.

 

While I am going to be annoyed about Apex splitting A3 initially, I think the value proposition and the fact that so many servers will be running Tanoa, and so many units will demand you have it, it will be offset it to the point that it will be seen like Arma 2+OA, where apex edition becomes the version newcomers buy just like combined operations did. And given how much the individual components of apex edition are (Arma 3 $40, Apex $35, Karts $2, heli $12, Marks $12, $101, with DLC bundle it goes down to $95, apex ed. is $70)

What I meant if Ubisoft can crank out a new game each year surely BIS can do a awesome DLC in a few months especially if its some models and no deep engine updates like optimizations and dev testing action menu alternatives-stuff that will take time. And they not this little shitty Game development studio in the Sticks on the arse end of Pluto with 6 guys doing 10 things. They now have three studios and Joris is heading up the new one. This is why Petr is the new Project Lead because obviously he knows what he is doing. This isn't amateur hour. I don't always get their decisions but come on vote with your wallets give them your money. What else you going to buy the new Modern Warfare: Farscape Saga?

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24 hours before the PC gaming show and the release date of Tanoa!!!

Let get drunk and not go to work tomorrow. Pop some poopcorn and cheer them on. Come on guys we waited for this is now on like Donkey Kong :wub: :lol: B) :P :P :P :P :P

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What I meant if Ubisoft can crank out a new game each year surely BIS can do a awesome DLC in a few months especially if its some models and no deep engine updates like optimizations and dev testing action menu alternatives-stuff that will take time. And they not this little shitty Game development studio in the Sticks on the arse end of Pluto with 6 guys doing 10 things. They now have three studios and Joris is heading up the new one. This is why Petr is the new Project Lead because obviously he knows what he is doing. This isn't amateur hour. I don't always get their decisions but come on vote with your wallets give them your money. What else you going to buy the new Modern Warfare: Farscape Saga?

I think they want to work on essential platform features since they just want to give free features to the community. And as for just giving them our money, I already paid for Arma 3 alpha and every DLC in full. I'm trying to give them more money but I don't seem to be able to!!!!

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What I meant if Ubisoft can crank out a new game each year surely BIS can do a awesome DLC in a few months especially if its some models and no deep engine updates like optimizations and dev testing action menu alternatives-stuff that will take time. And they not this little shitty Game development studio in the Sticks on the arse end of Pluto with 6 guys doing 10 things. They now have three studios and Joris is heading up the new one. This is why Petr is the new Project Lead because obviously he knows what he is doing. This isn't amateur hour. I don't always get their decisions but come on vote with your wallets give them your money. What else you going to buy the new Modern Warfare: Farscape Saga?

Actually BI has 5 studios now (including Amsterdam) and how many project are they working on? Besides ARMA3: Early acces games: 3, under development: at least 2, making a game PS compatible and working on a new game engine and who knows what else they are working on....... and that with around 200 employees. Don't forget BI was many years ago 1 of those "small studios" with just a few employees and are still standing strong against other AAA game studios.

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You won't a glock I want a 2035 laser canon....... you still not seeing my point.

Then pay a modder to create a laser canon. What's the problem?

My idea is that the people who want something in the game can pay for it and the modder gets some money and BI.

The result is added in the game for free.

You want a laser canon? then find a modder who models one and pay him. Thats the whole point.

Nobody needs to pay. Its your choice if you want to support the idea. If nobody wants it, then it will not be added. Its simple.

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Then pay a modder to create a laser canon. What's the problem?

My idea is that the people who want something in the game can pay for it and the modder gets some money and BI.

The result is added in the game for free.

You want a laser canon? then find a modder who models one and pay him. Thats the whole point.

Nobody needs to pay. Its your choice if you want to support the idea. If nobody wants it, then it will not be added. Its simple.

So you still think that porting a mod into the vanilla game does not cost money? The modder gets paid (fair enough) but BI needs to work for free? That not how it works........ and wenn they start doing that it will mean the end of the ARMA franchise...... why would a player buy a DLC/expansion wenn a mod maker can get paid (much cheaper than BI development cost of course) with kickstarter and BI adds the mod for free to vanilla.

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They did; did you not see PuFu's role in building up Tanoa?

Welp, looks like i happened to pull a muscle in my back, so it also happens to look like i'm staying home for physical related injuries, and completely has nothing to do with Arma 3 also revealing some possible game-play of the new assets and revealing the Release date of Apex. ;)

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Welp, looks like i happened to pull a muscle in my back, so it also happens to look like i'm staying home for physical related injuries, and completely has nothing to do with Arma 3 also revealing some possible game-play of the new assets and revealing the Release date of Apex. ;)

I just don't have a job right now so.....

 

Can't wait for the TotalBiscuit snark stream! I think i'll watch the ones today, too :D

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I just don't have a job right now so.....

 

Can't wait for the TotalBiscuit snark stream! I think i'll watch the ones today, too :D

so you don't have Tanoa? Can arrange it.
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so you don't have Tanoa? Can arrange it.

I already have it actually. I used money I didn't have :) (I am of course kidding I used left leftover tax return cash)

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I love this community. You're an awesome person.

We love you too...can we touch you?

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