Issues I would like BI to fix

[Vasily.B 529]

Hi there. I wonder about possibilities (mainly for BIS AI developer) to make crewman stay in vehicles after track damage (allowcrewinimmmobile) but automaticly for all vehicles, when there is no possibility to add it (steam workshop missions, campaigns) without extracting, editing, packing (sensless point, mission is supposed to download & play). 

So idea is simple (somehow already created in ACE 3);
- Create class "mechanic" for all crewmwmbers - mechanic could repair tracks, main gun, commander turret, and engine.

- CHANGE behavior .fsm  of tank crews - when they are in "combat" mode (automatic, when detect enemy), they should have applied "allowcrewinimmobile", when enemy isnt visible ( "danger" behavior), ONE crewman disembarks to repair vehicle, while rest of crew stays in it.
- When vehicle became repaired, crewman gets order to get back in vehicle and DONE.

I'm asking for this, beacuse its stupid and unrealistic now. Heavy firefight, lot of infantry, Tanks is driving on the mine - tracks become damaged crew disembark from vehicle and die from smallarms fire. What crew in real is doing this? Even no smoke cover..... They are disembarking just to die, even if they can provide fire from the tank and survive the atack..

You can vote it here
http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=26866#bugnotes

[seba1976 98]

Even I can answer that Vasily.B: Nope, they can't/won't do it.

 

PS: Sorry for the edit. Seemed I was talking backwards  :) ...

[cosmic10r 2320]

Stamina definitely works on AI. I have an AI squad I use and after the 1.54 update... they would not run at all... had to lighten their kit... My guess is all the default BIS stuff falls under the threshold for Load and so don't seem as affected as those of us who load up the kitchen sink

[Vasily.B 529]

Great so we have unfinished features everywhere, and BIS is calling this finished game.... Its still beta for Crist sake.

[x3kj 1247]

A game is never truly finished... there is always something that could be improved/ added.

We get updates every workday, which is a rare thing in gaming these days. But some people will always complain <_<

[Vasily.B 529]

I am complain beacuse i report bugs since 2 years and they are still "new", not even readed - this is very rare these days - really is.

[domokun 515]

Great so we have unfinished features everywhere, and BIS is calling this finished game.... Its still beta for Crist sake.

When did BIS ever declared that A3 is a finished game? I don't know why BIS haven't read your bug reports but I'd guess that they're still ploughing through hundreds of other unread bug reports (they have thousands in their bug-tracking database).

Don't take it personally. Software development is often a frustrating process, particularly when dealing with complex software and open testing community like us.

BIS has long used iterative development with all the pitfalls that this entails. Just look at OFP, the last patch was delivered 10 years after its release. Did the last patch resolve the last of the bugs? I doubt it.

In the real world, companies have limited resources and so have to prioritise.

[Vasily.B 529]

When did BIS ever declared that A3 is a finished game? I don't know why BIS haven't read your bug reports but I'd guess that they're still ploughing through hundreds of other unread bug reports (they have thousands in their bug-tracking database).

Don't take it personally. Software development is often a frustrating process, particularly when dealing with complex software and open testing community like us.

BIS has long used iterative development with all the pitfalls that this entails. Just look at OFP, the last patch was delivered 10 years after its release. Did the last patch resolve the last of the bugs? I doubt it.

In the real world, companies have limited resources and so have to prioritise.

I know, but they are ignoring most of tickets, not only mine, while creating NEW content basis on this NOT WORKING CONTENT. They stated the game is finished when they released it (out of BETA). They stated they will release updates, but they stated is officially finished .

[domokun 515]

I know, but they are ignoring most of tickets, not only mine, while creating NEW content basis on this NOT WORKING CONTENT. They stated the game is finished when they released it (out of BETA). They stated they will release updates, but they stated is officially finished .

Nonsense. If it were finished, then why do they release updates on monthly basis? If you look at the release notes, much of the work is correcting bugs, i.e. not just adding new features.

As for ignoring most of the tickets, do you mean that they haven't read 50+% of the tickets?

Finally, how many other editors continue to patch their games years after their release?

Don't get me wrong, BIS are far from perfect (just look at their recent attempt at replacing the fatigue system with a stamina system) but their after-sales commitment really isn't as bad as you're suggesting.

[Vasily.B 529]

I like them, but i dont like how they treat customers. For example TrueSky plugin - its already fixed, they just need to apply it, and eventually fix config in some places - but they havent done that since months (6 if i remember), next is PhysX - rocket boosting tanks isnt too enjoyable when you get kill yourself by tank on 200KM/H....  Ai still cant reverse tank when there is anybody in 10 m from the tank (other tank or human) which is totally gamebreaking - i wanna fast reverse to cover behind the enemy and my tank starts to rotate instead reversing, thenn boom, my tank is throwed (physX failure).Many, many more, its not low priority issues you can ignore just to put new content first. Show me at least one game with such gamebreaking bugs SINCE 2 years after release. 50+ tickets? I am reading all new tickets in max 20 minuts every evening - me, one man. Lets face it, they will never FULLY finish this game and our money will never get back to out wallets (already asked Steam for this). I just feel cheated, every single gamepllay is filled with bugs. 2 years after release......

Look how it was "finished" with A2 :
"It will never be finished if you mean it will have no bugs. They also worked on ArmA2 for years and it also had the same bugs that were reported years before. I have a dozen bug report tickets on the feedback website that are assigned for a year or longer and nothing has been done with it (yet). Including tickets that were assigned and then a year later a dev asks on the website in a new ticket if they could have feedback and repro missions of a bug while there are already tickes from a year old. They need to hire a 100 more devs to fix it all it seems."
from:
http://steamcommunity.com/app/107410/discussions/0/622955136053454813/

"but their after-sales commitment really isn't as bad as you're suggesting."

Really?
 

[domokun 515]

I think that your standards are unrealistic, e.g. please name 1 comparable game that is FULLY finished, i.e. no bugs

BIS continued and continuing commitment is perhaps the best example of why treat their customers better than most of their rivals (EA, Ubisoft, etc.).

Regarding A2, BIS continues to patch it (in fact the last patch was released )

So while the current quality of A3 is far from perfect (I agree with you about vehicle physics, tanks in particular), it is pretty good situation.

[teabagginpeople 398]

What you said above is all true. it has got bugs galore. The bis team is small and always being way too ambitious for their size. fuck up lots when adding new features.spreading themselves so tin. they move slow addressing some long term problems and with engine restrictions can only limit problems or do workarounds. Sometimes I question the rationale behind decisions. They can be a real bunch of fuck ups :D

That said. As much as I and many others piss and moan about arma3. We still play the shit out of it. They made a beautiful broken bastard of a game that at the best of times is hard not to love.

I'm not defending their lack of fixing bugs here. Just saying. When you compare the scale of the game, the size of the dev team. how the company sells to its customers, and all other factors. maybe it's not as bad as you see it. Maybe I'm just more forgiving. But I'd feel like a dick asking for my money back after 1000+ hours of gameplay. And besides I have fun on it so would just need to buy another copy.

[inlesco 233]

I like them, but i dont like how they treat customers. For example TrueSky plugin - its already fixed, they just need to apply it, and eventually fix config in some places - but they havent done that since months (6 if i remember), next is PhysX - rocket boosting tanks isnt too enjoyable when you get kill yourself by tank on 200KM/H....  Ai still cant reverse tank when there is anybody in 10 m from the tank (other tank or human) which is totally gamebreaking - i wanna fast reverse to cover behind the enemy and my tank starts to rotate instead reversing, thenn boom, my tank is throwed (physX failure).Many, many more, its not low priority issues you can ignore just to put new content first. Show me at least one game with such gamebreaking bugs SINCE 2 years after release. 50+ tickets? I am reading all new tickets in max 20 minuts every evening - me, one man. Lets face it, they will never FULLY finish this game and our money will never get back to out wallets (already asked Steam for this). I just feel cheated, every single gamepllay is filled with bugs. 2 years after release......

Look how it was "finished" with A2 :

"It will never be finished if you mean it will have no bugs. They also worked on ArmA2 for years and it also had the same bugs that were reported years before. I have a dozen bug report tickets on the feedback website that are assigned for a year or longer and nothing has been done with it (yet). Including tickets that were assigned and then a year later a dev asks on the website in a new ticket if they could have feedback and repro missions of a bug while there are already tickes from a year old. They need to hire a 100 more devs to fix it all it seems."

from:

http://steamcommunity.com/app/107410/discussions/0/622955136053454813/

"but their after-sales commitment really isn't as bad as you're suggesting."

Really?

 

No offence, but I think you've never had a job in software dev, right? Finding competent programmers for a low-average pay (in field's standards - that is, C++, C or embedded systems) is actually a problem because video games industry usually pays lower than other fields.

 

And no kidding - people want to earn more when they're enthusiastic about a product and require an adequate pay. This is all normal.

 

Bugfixing, proper integration so everything is modular, ensuring one bugfix won't make 10+ new bugs, is a daunting task - requires experienced programmers. More experience = bigger requirements in terms of pay, work/life balance, office bonuses and other benefits.

 

The more people you bring on board, the tighter your software dev process and the production / dev pipeline has to be. It ain't easy to control a 100 programmers for a project that is >1 million lines of code (LOC).

 

Yes, many problems may seem simple until you sit down to tackle the actual task. This is one of the most challenging and sometimes annoying things in soft-dev.

 

tl;dr. Throwing more people at a project won't solve all your problems. Case solved :)

_____

Speaking of comparable games in terms of scale and ambitions, you think titles like GTA5 have no bugs whatsoever? There's tons. It's just that there's no bug tracker available to see all the issues of it, no way to get you thinking 'Well, this game certainly aims for too much if there's so many issues in it.'.

 

Yep - sometimes BIS gets too ambitious, but who else is there in the industry to provide a varied military experience like no other? Most of the games focus on infantry alone because they know tackling the entire scale will introduce 100s of new problems and require years to polish the shit out of it. And, of course, infantry gameplay is the most popular, so it's a logical decision. Then there's armor / air focused titles - they focus on one thing and one thing only.

 

Look at the recent Ubisoft's title - AC series, FC4, Watch Dogs, etc. They're bugfests with their problems. What causes this? Mainly, investors that build up pressure with tight deadlines. You can't escape it if you're in the business for real.

[Vasily.B 529]

I think that your standards are unrealistic, e.g. please name 1 comparable game that is FULLY finished, i.e. no bugs

 GTA V? GTA 4? Quake? Steel Fury? Steel beasts Blaze of War? Serious sam? CoD? wanna more? There are feedback trackers for those games, and "bugs" that are still present are so small that they are not worth to fix. Im talking about A3 bug which is making combat impossible like tank flipping upside down after hitting barrier and more i mentioned before. There are small bugs, big bugs, and GAMEBREAKING BUGS, and those last is most often that i report.

I am playing arma 3 since 2 years (around) and i'm still here. Like we all, i wanna make this game better, so i'm giving easy hints to developers (feature requests), report bugs, obey the overall rules, and trying to teach them other users. Is this bad i write about something that should not happen?  I just cant get why basic features of game (that should be fixed MAX in BETA) are still not working. Game should not be released while this function are not working - its like driving car without tires - it will be unstable, and propably never ride as it should. This is what happening to arma - i see big progress with last updates, very big, but i'm aware of simillar situation with A2 when they pushed lot of updates fixing major issues and BAM - Arma 3 announced and development of A2 almost stopped. Understand, i'm aware they announce A4 after Tanoa expansion (no further roadmap yet) and A3 will stay with those bugs forever. And in case of developers and money for them - it wasnt my idea to give so much money for mod developers (otherwise thanks for them for very hard work), and they released DLC's.

Edit:

Just look at those tickets:

http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=22100

http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=27201

http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=26866

http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=27125

http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=27000

http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=22541

http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=22586

http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=23017

http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=13467

http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=19105

http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=26109

http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=26031

Its identical situation as with A2. Some of thise reports are new, beacuse old ones being ignored, yes - ignored. Its just their copies.

Now, i'm more that sure you knows ACE team. Best realism/fixing game features mod ever. How they handled most of major problem in 4 months for free? How it was possible if they have smaller team?

[inlesco 233]

 GTA V? GTA 4? Quake? Steel Fury? Steel beasts Blaze of War? Serious sam? CoD? wanna more? There are feedback trackers for those games, and "bugs" that are still present are so small that they are not worth to fix. Im talking about A3 bug which is making combat impossible like tank flipping upside down after hitting barrier and more i mentioned before. There are small bugs, big bugs, and GAMEBREAKING BUGS, and those last is most often that i report.

I am playing arma 3 since 2 years (around) and i'm still here. Like we all, i wanna make this game better, so i'm giving easy hints to developers (feature requests), report bugs, obey the overall rules, and trying to teach them other users. Is this bad i write about something that should not happen?  I just cant get why basic features of game (that should be fixed MAX in BETA) are still not working. Game should not be released while this function are not working - its like driving car without tires - it will be unstable, and propably never ride as it should. This is what happening to arma - i see big progress with last updates, very big, but i'm aware of simillar situation with A2 when they pushed lot of updates fixing major issues and BAM - Arma 3 announced and development of A2 almost stopped. Understand, i'm aware they announce A4 after Tanoa expansion (no further roadmap yet) and A3 will stay with those bugs forever. And in case of developers and money for them - it wasnt my idea to give so much money for mod developers (otherwise thanks for them for very hard work), and they released DLC's.

I'm a little short on time, but are you saying BIS should strip down Arma into bits and don't introduce new types of combat until a part currently in development isn't completely fixed?

 

What does Arma combat consist of, mainly? Infantry + wheeled + air + amphibious + underwater.

 

I understand that finishing the Infantry part fully and then proceeding onto 'Wheeled' part might seem logical, but marketing and the history of past titles also determines the decisions.

 

Would 90% of customers be happy if A3 Beta got released with infantry combat only? Plus some artillery and shit. I don't think so.

 

Gamers (correction - most of them) have a distinctive ability to find problems where none exist - they complain about anything. They'll brag about the scale of the game sacrificed for the sake of performance, etc. They'll tell BIS they don't know how to code shit, that's why they stripped the other parts of combat. If they'd add them back, performance'd be shit. Etc, etc.

 

You can always complain your way to the moon, but let's be realistic, let's get back to reality - a project has its deadlines, has its boundaries and its resources - if you fail, you fail your business. And yes - developing large games is a business. You can't keep up with the numbers, you can't follow the plan - you're out.

[Vasily.B 529]

Its basic features!!!! They need to be fixed before releasing game - are you reading with understanding? Why they have done this in previous part of arma and in 3 they didnt? Deadline? They havent any deadline. Thats why they released arma in early access.

[inlesco 233]

Its basic features!!!! They need to be fixed before releasing game - are you reading with understanding? Why they have done this in previous part of arma and in 3 they didnt? Deadline? They havent any deadline. Thats why they released arma in early access.

I realize where you're coming from. Here's a suggestion: make a separate thread to discuss the issues you've listed (with URLs to FT)? I haven't seen one on these forums, it'd be a great start.

[Vasily.B 529]

I realize where you're coming from. Here's a suggestion: make a separate thread to discuss the issues you've listed (with URLs to FT)? I haven't seen one on these forums, it'd be a great start.

Almost all of them have threads here. To be honest, if Bohemia will fix PhysX, AI and clouds i will be most happy men in the world, beacuse modders will take the rest. BTW if you create thread here on forum about bugs, you will be directed to feedback tracker. I am closing to buy this game :

http://store.steampowered.com/app/353690/

[domokun 515]

 GTA V? GTA 4? Quake? Steel Fury? Steel beasts Blaze of War? Serious sam? CoD? wanna more? There are feedback trackers for those games, and "bugs" that are still present are so small that they are not worth to fix. Im talking about A3 bug which is making combat impossible like tank flipping upside down after hitting barrier and more i mentioned before. There are small bugs, big bugs, and GAMEBREAKING BUGS, and those last is most often that i report.

I am playing arma 3 since 2 years (around) and i'm still here. Like we all, i wanna make this game better, so i'm giving easy hints to developers (feature requests), report bugs, obey the overall rules, and trying to teach them other users. Is this bad i write about something that should not happen?

I said "comparable". When you compare Quake, CoD or even Serious Sam to Arma, your credibility goes down the toilet.

Your legitimacy is equally undermined by your inability to realise that, when developing software, a user's ability to generate bug reports (however well-intentioned and/or well-written) is minor compared to the dev team's ability to process and correct it.

I suspect that I and others have a different point of view because we've been contributing here/playing Arma a lot longer and some of us also work in software development.

Like I said; it's not perfect but then again neither is reality.

You and I both like this game, so let's continue working with BIS to improve it, rather than bitching about it with unrealistic expectations.

[inlesco 233]

Almost all of them have threads here. To be honest, if Bohemia will fix PhysX, AI and clouds i will be most happy men in the world, beacuse modders will take the rest. BTW if you create thread here on forum about bugs, you will be directed to feedback tracker. I am closing to buy this game :

http://store.steampowered.com/app/353690/

DUST has a couple of nice (and, at the same time, a little annoying) features and a whole bunch of essential infantry stuff missing, plus terrible map design (compared to Arma).

 

It's early access, so the guys are basically selling you a half-lie of a product. Buying an unfinished product from an unreliable dev-team isn't the best bet for the money. 

 

And no - there's no thread on BIF that lists all the bugs you've listed and asks people to discuss the probability of them getting fixed. You're lying :D.

[Vasily.B 529]

"Almost all of them have threads here." ALMOST - you know what that mean? 
If google is to hard for you, let me give you links:

PHYSX Failures : https://forums.bistudio.com/topic/185178-tracked-vehicles-jumping-rocket-accelerating/
Clouds issue : https://forums.bistudio.com/topic/130625-volumetric-clouds-changing-shape/
AI moving in danger mode (link to google search as there is too much threads : https://www.google.pl/search?q=arma++3+ai+movement+danger&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&gws_rd=cr&ei=Q5yHVpPWCcHasgHalKUQ#q=arma++3+ai+movement+danger+site:forums.bistudio.com
AI freeze after switching units : https://forums.bistudio.com/topic/178932-switching-playersquad-leader-during-co-op-multiplayer-with-ai/
Forcing disembark when getting hit (since A2 still unresolved) : https://forums.bistudio.com/topic/111815-how-to-prevent-ai-to-disembark-when-getting-shot/ 
AI reaction (including grenades) : https://forums.bistudio.com/topic/184331-the-ais-reaction-timeability-is-insane/
Blind AI :https://forums.bistudio.com/topic/178405-ai-blind-now/      &           https://forums.bistudio.com/topic/82800-moving-ai-blind-in-urban-combat-stationary-units-still-invisible-to-ai/
Tank platoons (including driving in water) :https://forums.bistudio.com/topic/185558-time-to-fix-armor-warfare-for-ai/


"Unrealistic expectations." - man i want to play this game with working basic features like moving, its not unrealistic expectations, its what i payed for! Game never should leave alpha stage without this feature working! If throwed examples are bad for you, lets take a look at Arma 1, Arma 2, where the same team has released game with working basic features like damm moving. I'm not liyng, you are not understanding the reality.

Now all your agruments went to the toilet.

[1212PDMCDMPPM 200]

(...)

Now all your agruments went to the toilet.

 

If only you could write all that in the appropriate thread...

[inlesco 233]

"Almost all of them have threads here." ALMOST - you know what that mean? 

If google is to hard for you, let me give you links:

PHYSX Failures : https://forums.bistudio.com/topic/185178-tracked-vehicles-jumping-rocket-accelerating/

Clouds issue : https://forums.bistudio.com/topic/130625-volumetric-clouds-changing-shape/

AI moving in danger mode (link to google search as there is too much threads : https://www.google.pl/search?q=arma++3+ai+movement+danger&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&gws_rd=cr&ei=Q5yHVpPWCcHasgHalKUQ#q=arma++3+ai+movement+danger+site:forums.bistudio.com

AI freeze after switching units : https://forums.bistudio.com/topic/178932-switching-playersquad-leader-during-co-op-multiplayer-with-ai/

Forcing disembark when getting hit (since A2 still unresolved) : https://forums.bistudio.com/topic/111815-how-to-prevent-ai-to-disembark-when-getting-shot/ 

AI reaction (including grenades) : https://forums.bistudio.com/topic/184331-the-ais-reaction-timeability-is-insane/

Blind AI :https://forums.bistudio.com/topic/178405-ai-blind-now/      &           https://forums.bistudio.com/topic/82800-moving-ai-blind-in-urban-combat-stationary-units-still-invisible-to-ai/

Tank platoons (including driving in water) :https://forums.bistudio.com/topic/185558-time-to-fix-armor-warfare-for-ai/

"Unrealistic expectations." - man i want to play this game with working basic features like moving, its not unrealistic expectations, its what i payed for! Game never should leave alpha stage without this feature working! If throwed examples are bad for you, lets take a look at Arma 1, Arma 2, where the same team has released game with working basic features like damm moving. I'm not liyng, you are not understanding the reality.

Now all your agruments went to the toilet.

I might be wasting my time here, but... you're not reading what others state - if you think all the issues mentioned are important (personally or overall) - MAKE a goddamn THREAD with ALL OF THEM listed inside.

That way, we don't have to jump through every thread and comment on it.

 

I suppose most of the tickets listed important here are written by you.

 

You know, writing in UPPERCASE isn't the best way to get the dev's attention because honestly you look like a spoiled brat who wants 'it' here and now. Instead, have patience and understanding.

 

Provide constructive feedback - with screens, videos, or - the best of all - example missions attached to reproduce your issue accurately. The devs will thank you.

[mad_cheese 592]

Honestly, that was hilarious but I think it's time to get over it. Happy new year, happy new days.

[Vasily.B 529]

I might be wasting my time here, but... you're not reading what others state - if you think all the issues mentioned are important (personally or overall) - MAKE a goddamn THREAD with ALL OF THEM listed inside.

That way, we don't have to jump through every thread and comment on it.

 

I suppose most of the tickets listed important here are written by you.

 

You know, writing in UPPERCASE isn't the best way to get the dev's attention because honestly you look like a spoiled brat who wants 'it' here and now. Instead, have patience and understanding.

 

Provide constructive feedback - with screens, videos, or - the best of all - example missions attached to reproduce your issue accurately. The devs will thank you.

Read once again my post.....Read forum rules...... then reply.

Rules are simple - not create duplicate of thread. They are already opened.

Tickets (Some of them) are made by me, but "original" are by other users, i just refreshed them and given more details to reproduce, created better description. About "here and now"... 2 years is enough of waiting dont you think? For goddamm moving fature.