A2/A2:OA Patch 18.12.2015

[opusfmspol 273]

To Opusfmspol, the Warfare missions upon completion are in a perpetual loop with the camera and the stats. This loop lasts only a few seconds and then continuously repeats. I don't recall that happening before. I tested this with Civil War CTI several times today. Minor I know but I figured it best to mention it just in case.

 

On a side note concerning Civil War I thought it interesting that the Insurgents recruit Russian soldiers for base defense and the CDF recruit USMC for base defense oh and the CDF playable units start off with American weapons instead of Russian variants. I figured for that CTI mission it would be exclusively Insurgents vs CDF but it probably has always been like that. Easy enough to modify on my end to be honest. :)

 

To anybody, as far as tweaking weapons and vehicles  are concerned does anyone else think the bicycles in ARMA 2 are a tad on the fast side? I always thought they were too fast in Dayz and doesn't appear to me much if any slower after the patch?

 

The USMC/Russian base defense units and CDF M16 rifles are WF doing config defaults.  The mission uses a custom common script and custom structures config, but doesn't use a custom teams or loadouts config to change those particular things.

 

The end-of-game loop may be a dedicated server issue.  Are you encountering that on a dedicated server?

 

I ask because the server update condition to end the loop (checking victory conditions) has always been variable "gameOver" being made true.  But it seems the variable gets set true locally on clients.  I don't find it getting set true in the server update, which on a DS would continue looping since a DS doesn't process the client scripts.

 

If fixed for 2-sided missions, it would have to be conditioned on only one side remaining active (for 3-sided missions, where one side gets defeated but two sides keep battling it out).  There are a couple other considerations I can think of where 2-sided v. 3-sided would have to be accounted for.

[Dixie22 0]

I've put many hours into this game as well and I'm not happy with these changes at all. As everyone else has said, leave the guns and vehicles alone and focus on actual bug fixes. I would love if you reverted at least most of the changes (if not all). 

If you want such changes on guns, maybe create a different version of it with a different class name so people who own servers can choose if they want them in their server. Who knows, maybe some would want a more mild version of TWS guns. (I know I wouldn't, but maybe a couple would.)

I honestly liked the DMR the way it was. That goes for the PKP and TWS guns. I loved the PKP simply because it did zero (use to be up to 800m) and worked with NVG. Now the PKP no longer zeros at all nor does it work with NVG. Taking away the PKP's zeroing at 800m? Fine, lower the zeroing, but don't take it away altogether. Also, leave it compatible with NVG.

I liked the sound of AS50. There was nothing wrong with it before.

Adjusting vehicle speed was a lame move too.

Again, stick with bug fixes, please—also, really consider reverting these changes. 

 

[Schatten 267]

Dixie22, you're great! Let's do nothing, because everybody accustomed to gaps and bugs. Thanks for suggestion!

I honestly liked the DMR the way it was.

It was wrong.
 

That goes for the PKP and TWS guns. I loved the PKP simply because it did zero (use to be up to 800m) and worked with NVG. Now the PKP no longer zeros at all nor does it work with NVG. Taking away the PKP's zeroing at 800m? Fine, lower the zeroing, but don't take it away altogether. Also, leave it compatible with NVG.

As far as I know TWS has aiming reticle only.
PKP has a DAYLIGHT optical sight. But, after some investigation I've done, zeroing and range of distances were reverted and tweaked.
 

I liked the sound of AS50. There was nothing wrong with it before.

Someone doesn't agree with you: https://dev.withsix.com/issues/71270.
 

Adjusting vehicle speed was a lame move too.

https://forums.bistudio.com/topic/186695-a2a2oa-patch-18122015/page-13#entry2956432

[Jarrynac 0]

THIS UPDATE IS BULLSHIT ABSOLUTLY I SPENT 3500 OURS IN THAT GAME AND THIS IS BULLSHIT VENOM OMG WHO CHANGED WHAT PARAMETES !!!!!!! WHOOOOOO????? ZEORING KSVK ZEORING ????  SVD ??????  AND MOST BULLSHIT ME AND OUR SQUAD tryed THAT AND YOU REDUCE DMG MODEL AT LAPUA !! ???? WHYYY ???? NOW I CANT KILL WITH SINGLE SHOT ON 800 M ?????? WTF ???? WHEN TARGET HAVE 12000k BLOOD MUST SHOOT TWICE  BEFORE I KILLED TARGETS AT 1650M  NOW NOT GJ BOHEMIA REALLY OPEN 10 YERS OLD GAME .... 

[PiZZADOX 47]

Schatten, maybe instead of responding to each and every criticism of your work you could perhaps be constructive and make sure this complication doesn't happen again. Spreading more info about the github and the changes you are making will help, and maybe listening to some player feedback about the things that are not simple bug fixes (as this was corepatch's initial warrant)

 

Does goliath work alongside you for the config changes or are you solely working on the config changes?

 

I might add that the amount of players lashing back at these sort of content changes pretty much bars your name from any future projects. Part of what people look for in a portfolio of projects is what other people think of your work and your responses to it... I can bet you a particular unfortunate dev tasked to this project is shaking his head and may be regretting some of the decisions made during this patch's implementation.

[Schatten 267]

Does goliath work alongside you for the config changes or are you solely working on the config changes?

We work together: https://github.com/Goliath86/CorePatch.

 

I might add that the amount of players lashing back at these sort of content changes pretty much bars your name from any future projects. Part of what people look for in a portfolio of projects is what other people think of your work and your responses to it... I can bet you a particular unfortunate dev tasked to this project is shaking his head and may be regretting some of the decisions made during this patch's implementation.

Like I said before,

people have to offer to revert everything because of update work stopped mods.

and

Let's do nothing, because everybody accustomed to gaps and bugs.

It's great iron arguments to revert all changes made by CorePatch.

[hololand 27]

Schatten I support you and your work, I am glad you reverted most of the changes made, I understand you are doing this for free and respect you for that. There are however some issues I would still like to address... 

Let me show you a diagram 

I think you are mislead into believing that Arma is the only option here. For realism please work on Ace mod. For example how angry would the realism fans be if zombies were added too the vanilla game?... It doesn't make sense.. 

Arma should be a happy median between all mods. An unbiased platform for modders. It was just that... I understand that as developers most of you are naturally biased towards this realism, However as harsh as it may sound... This is not about what you want, This is about what the community wants. 

We have a fantastic mod from Eggbeast here which if I want realism, I just launch that up and BAM we got realism... Just like that. Or I could launch Ace 2... or any tactical realism mod.

I respect the mods and I love Arma, I am making these observations because I fear that these updates even though they intend to keep the community alive are going to infact kill it... I am worried these changes will do more damage than good. 

[theduke77 17]

Dixie22, you're great! Let's do nothing, because everybody accustomed to gaps and bugs. Thanks for suggestion!

It was wrong.

 

As far as I know TWS has aiming reticle only.

PKP has a DAYLIGHT optical sight. But, after some investigation I've done, zeroing and range of distances were reverted and tweaked.

 

Someone doesn't agree with you: https://dev.withsix.com/issues/71270.

 

https://forums.bistudio.com/topic/186695-a2a2oa-patch-18122015/page-13#entry2956432

everything you've pointed out here is something that was mostly bothering just a few people.  You should of just added to the ace mod and used that instead or created a new mod.  And left the core game alone.

I'm sorry, but you will not win that argument. I know there was alot of time put into this corepatch and you probly don't like the backlash its receiving.  But regardless its the truth what most of the community is saying and you need to realize it and stop getting feisty with the community that has made this game what it is.  With that attitude, communities go nowhere.

 

That comment you made to dixe22 and i quote " You're great! Let's do nothing, because everybody accustomed to gaps and bugs. Thanks for suggestion!"

is pretty childish if you ask me.  Its arma and yes we are all accustomed to the bugs.  Hence my last post about releasing games super early full of bugs nowadays.

And again it goes towards making your own mod instead of messing up the core game.

 

I find it odd that you havn't mentioned me in a comment so far, even after i quoted you and mentioned you a couple times.  I feel like you have nothing to to say because you can't find a way to admit most of us are right about the corepatch.  Im sure you are feeling all of the frustration this has created for most of the community and being on the other side and attacking others shows your immaturity.   Oh and lets not forget the parachuting haha i mentioned that a few times.  But its purposely being left out it seems LOL  I mean even in arma 3 its embrassing the parachutting.  All in all, leave the game alone 

[Schatten 267]

hololand, theduke77 and others, diagram posted by hololand shows current distribution of Arma players and I agree with it. But Arma is military simulator (light edition compared with Arma + ACE) and I'm not going to simplify Arma for the sake of casual, survive, RPG and other style game players. Most of players are wrong, because they came here and started to promote its own rules. I do not want that Arma become a casual game.

[theduke77 17]

hololand, theduke77 and others, diagram posted by hololand shows current distribution of Arma players and I agree with it. But Arma is military simulator (light edition compared with Arma + ACE) and I'm not going to simplify Arma for the sake of casual, survive, RPG and other styled game players. I do not want that Arma become a casual game.

If you agree with his diagram, then what you said is not "Casual" the actual casual players are the ones that ONLY play arma 2.  And for one, you dont have to do anything, as a matter of fact we are saying it could of been left alone in the first place.  And arma will become a "casual" game if patches like this keep happening. This goes for arma 3 also. I mean isnt this thread enough to show you we are not happy.  Take it as a learning experience, you went the wrong direction.  Accept it and live with it.  Now its time to fix this mess and keep the majority of the community happy.  And liek you agreed on holos diagram, its based on dayz.  In your eyes the majority of the people is, and again i quote "I'm not going to simplify Arma for the sake of casual, survive, RPG and other styled game players".  So in the end the majority don't really count based on that comment.

 

I have to agree with pizzadox, this is bad for your reputation.  Im almost tempted to start a poll to have you removed from the DEV team if you cant show maturity towards the WHOLE arma community. not just sole arma players.

[Schatten 267]

Sounds like if all begin to lie, then it's OK to lie.

Majority of the community is wrong, because majority of the community plays in DayZ and Life mods. These mods aren't military simulators which Arma should remain. So there is no need here to push proposals based on the experience of gaming in DayZ and Life mods - it's wrong.

[chrisb 196]

hololand, theduke77 and others, diagram posted by hololand shows current distribution of Arma players and I agree with it. But Arma is military simulator (light edition compared with Arma + ACE) and I'm not going to simplify Arma for the sake of casual, survive, RPG and other styled game players. Most of players are wrong, because they came here and started to promote its own rules. I do not want that Arma become a casual game.

That's exactly it.

 

 

Just read the front of the games cover, its in my sig too. You stated the right thing, Arma is primarily a mil/sim game.

 

Its not full on mil/sim, but mods make it as near as gamers want to go towards a full mil/sim. Those mods have been built, based on what the game is, not from a mod that came from the game.

 

Keep it where its core game-play is (military).

:)

[eggbeast 3673]

Ignore the whiners mate

Adding backpack function to a2 units is a similar fix that can be done to port oa functionality to a2 content.

Adding zeroing to a2 weapons likewise

These are function ports rather than bugfixes, and deserve to be in the core patch.

Mod makers like dayz epoch or our rangemaster mod will soon work out what we like and what we dont like, and modify our mods to patch your righteous patch.

Guys if you want something changed go ask your mod maker to do it

Though its fair enough to revert stuff like the minigun arcs

Keep up the good work.

[theduke77 17]

Sounds like if all begin to lie, then it's OK to lie.

Majority of the community are wrong, because majority of the community plays in DayZ and Life mods. These mods aren't military simulators which Arma should remain. So there is no need here to push proposals based on the experience of gaming in DayZ and Life mods - it's wrong.

This made me LOL.  Then why did bohemia release tools for the game? for players to create things based on the core game.  This says it all right here, its going down the drain with this attitude .... "Majority of the community are wrong, because majority of the community plays in DayZ" you are contradicting yourself in the same sentence lol.  so your saying, lets NOT do what the majority of the community is asking for...because they don't matter because its mods.  WOW bohemia has a new low. GG  Im out GL with this and your future projects

[hololand 27]

It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent that survives. It is the one that is most adaptable to change. - Charles Darwin

Lets also note that Arma 3 has its entire campaign practically based of this motto, Survive / Adapt / Win...

From a business standpoint refusing to adapt to the majority leads to failure... Look at kodak, Look at Blockbuster. All of these failed because they refused to accept change.

Originally Arma 2 was a tactical realism simulator yes! However Dean hall introduced dayz and then Epoch came and then overwatch and life and many more mods... Things change. Arma is no longer just the tactical simulator it used to be. It is more than that. Upsetting 70-90% of the player base so that the 10% can get what they want is absolutely ridiculous. 

I am sure Bohemia would not support such a foolish decision.

Now don't get me wrong. I support this ideal for realism. Just because the game has changed does not mean you cannot have your "realism". There are plenty of realism mods available that are far more realistic than the vanilla game would ever hope to be. ACE mod dor example, or Eggbeast's mod. there are also MANY MANY MORE realistic mods.

If you are a business it is literal suicide to upset your majority stakeholders for the minority stakeholders. I mean its against common sense... I seriously cannot comprehend how you are willing to kill the game for the sake of 7 year old ideal... I am sure that Bohemia would not support such a move in any way shape or form.

In short: Your duty as a dev is to suit the game to the masses... Not go my the following mindset  "Majority of the community are wrong, because majority of the community plays in DayZ and Life mods."

And one more thing... We do not want this to become a casual game. We just want this to remain the same game it has been for the PAST 7 YEARS without unnecessary changes

[theduke77 17]

It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent that survives. It is the one that is most adaptable to change. - Charles Darwin

Lets also note that Arma 3 has its entire campaign practically based of this motto, Survive / Adapt / Win...

From a business standpoint refusing to adapt to the majority leads to failure... Look at kodak, Look at Blockbuster. All of these failed because they refused to accept change.

Originally Arma 2 was a tactical realism simulator yes! However Dean hall introduced dayz and then Epoch came and then overwatch and life and many more mods... Things change. Arma is no longer just the tactical simulator it used to be. It is more than that. Upsetting 70-90% of the player base so that the 10% can get what they want is absolutely ridiculous. 

I am sure Bohemia would not support such a foolish decision.

Now don't get me wrong. I support this ideal for realism. Just because the game has changed does not mean you cannot have your "realism". There are plenty of realism mods available that are far more realistic than the vanilla game would ever hope to be. ACE mod dor example, or Eggbeast's mod. there are also MANY MANY MORE realistic mods.

If you are a business it is literal suicide to upset your majority stakeholders for the minority stakeholders. I mean its against common sense... I seriously cannot comprehend how you are willing to kill the game for the sake of 7 year old ideal... I am sure that Bohemia would not support such a move in any way shape or form.

In short: Your duty as a dev is to suit the game to the masses... Not go my the following mindset  "Majority of the community are wrong, because majority of the community plays in DayZ and Life mods."

And one more thing... We do not want this to become a casual game. We just want this to remain the same game it has been for the PAST 7 YEARS without unnecessary changes

i also wanted to point out the business part of it.  Hes admiting that he does not care for the majority of the bohemia customers. Myself  I cant see bohemia letting this happen.  They must be gone on vacation somewhere.

 

But I completly lost interest in arma/bohemia now.  Its not worth my time to invest in such ridiculousness.

 

Thank you schatten for making me realize there are more important things than wasting my time trying to get you to understand that a majority is what makes a community.  Like holo said..i cannot comprehend your logic. Does not make sense.  As a business owner myself, if i did what you are doing with my customers, i would out of a job fast.

 

In these times, there are sooo many products and games out there, you need to try to pull people towards your product, not push them away.  Your "ways" of dealing with the public/players/customers are pushing people away.

 

But apparently we are just a bunch (70% according to holo and you agreed schatten) of whining crying babies.  (also from egg)

 

Here is a quote from the rules, if anyone shouldnt break the rules i think mods and devs should be "more respectful" towards the arma community, not just sole arma players

Offensive content, flaming, privacy:

Material that is overly sexual, graphic, obscene, racist, or otherwise overly discriminatory is not permitted on these forums. Any material which constitutes defamation, harassment, abuse or slander, towards developers, staff or users, is strictly prohibited; this includes the Personal Message service, do not post private messages or user pictures. Flamebaiting is not allowed. Please do not post any personal or identifying information such as postal addresses, IPs or UIDs.

You know "users" are there too, and im sure the rules apply to mods and devs as well.  If not then bohemia really has something wrong going on here.

Now, do i need to go quote every single insult in this thread we the majority got coming from you schatten?  I dont think i need to, because i think you know what you said.

[Exodus648 5]

Sounds like if all begin to lie, then it's OK to lie.

Majority of the community are wrong, because majority of the community plays in DayZ and Life mods. These mods aren't military simulators which Arma should remain. So there is no need here to push proposals based on the experience of gaming in DayZ and Life mods - it's wrong.

 

 

hololand, theduke77 and others, diagram posted by hololand shows current distribution of Arma players and I agree with it. But Arma is military simulator (light edition compared with Arma + ACE) and I'm not going to simplify Arma for the sake of casual, survive, RPG and other styled game players. Most of players are wrong, because they came here and started to promote its own rules. I do not want that Arma become a casual game.

 

Dearest SCHATTEN and all other devs occupying his view, 

 

I hope you are aware you can't say things like this and expect people to still take you seriously? To be a developer for a game and insult the very players you wish to help...

 

For me you lost all credibility when things like the gunning angles of the venom were changed and I was told to pretty much shut up because it was changed for realism. Of which, was definitely not true, and had no real life basis to change it upon.

 

I think if you want to continue to preach for realism. In a simulator. That's fine. But then don't change things like this that aren't real? Doesn't make any sense???

 

I love the game feeling more realistic, to be able to know that this is what actually goes on in wars and battlefields across the world. And that is why I still play just as much A2 as the DayZ mods.

 

But how do you think I feel when I see you here saying all this crap about realism when the fire rate for the m134 gun isn't realistic... Nor are many features in the current game.

 

If you want realism, you can't just get a few devs together and maybe change 3 or 4 features and a few guns, you have to overhaul the game to get rid of all the stupid bugs. i don't agree with comparing GTA to A2 but the guy that did it has a point, there are things in that game that are so much more realistic than in A2, simply for example, parachuting....

 

Maybe think about what you're saying before you say it, and also think for a moment how much of a task it would be to overhaul this game, and if you wouldn't be up for it, then don't change small features if you aren't willing to change all those broken things too.

 

You know all of the fixes and things you've changed for the better are all appreciated, but don't expect people to say thank you for something they never asked for if it has made the game worse to play for them. That's like you crashing your car into me and then expecting me to thank you for it.  

[Hork 2]

Sounds like if all begin to lie, then it's OK to lie.

Majority of the community are wrong, because majority of the community plays in DayZ and Life mods. These mods aren't military simulators which Arma should remain. So there is no need here to push proposals based on the experience of gaming in DayZ and Life mods - it's wrong.

 

The majority of the community is wrong, people playing mods are wrong, Arma 2 should remain only a military simulator. No need to push proposals based on what admittedly 90% of the player base plays? This is all nothing but your opinion, never have I heard such immaturity and hostility coming from a developer.

 

I am a fan of milsims and realism but why on earth would a small minority be more important than the vast majority? Especially considering any major changes could be done with mods? Some of the changes are obviously warranted, but others are clearly ideas or opinions not based on facts. I still feel like I entered the twilight zone..

[hololand 27]

The majority of the community is wrong, people playing mods are wrong, Arma 2 should remain only a military simulator. No need to push proposals based on what admittedly 90% of the player base plays? This is all nothing but your opinion, never have I heard such immaturity and hostility coming from a developer.

 

I am a fan of milsims and realism but why on earth would a small minority be more important than the vast majority? Especially considering any major changes could be done with mods? Some of the changes are obviously warranted, but others are clearly ideas or opinions not based on facts. I still feel like I entered the twilight zone..

Precisely... This whole fuss is over nothing... There is a happy solution for all. Mil sim fans go back to ACE 2, And the vanilla game gets reverted to keep the rest happy.... simples.

I don't see a need for this "mod bashing" And general disregard for the player base.

[Donsal 0]

Sounds like if all begin to lie, then it's OK to lie.

Majority of the community are wrong, because majority of the community plays in DayZ and Life mods. These mods aren't military simulators which Arma should remain. So there is no need here to push proposals based on the experience of gaming in DayZ and Life mods - it's wrong.

Just to let you know since the recent patch, the medical box is broken in Dayz Overwatch / Overpoch / Vanilla etc. The box can be accessed, but contains empty loot.

[Schatten 267]

Donsal, https://forums.bistudio.com/topic/186695-a2a2oa-patch-18122015/page-6#entry2953367.

[eggbeast 3673]

As said before, the changes in core patch are harmonising content from a2 to OA functionality.

If you want something rolled back, to suit your own gaming preferences, then go lobby your mod maker.

Its hard to care about forum hogs who post long-winded arguments about how their point of view is more right or important than others.

Get back to bug reports please guys

[PiZZADOX 47]

I don't mind most of the changes, but as stated earlier, most devs have abandoned their A2 projects, and most players are not going to come here and complain, they are just simply going to leave and play a different game. If for some weird reason you think ousting all the DayZ players will make arma 2 milsim better... say goodbye to all support for hosted servers from 3rd parties and any custom launcher support. I bet you the main reason we were supposed to get patches after 1.63 was the large DayZ community on this game...

 

The attitude from Schatten is simply childish. I would love you on an ACE team, but I hope BI throws you off Corepatch. I don't see how they couldn't, given the intense backlash, and simple config errors resulting in unplayable assets.

[eggbeast 3673]

The core patch was necessary because loads of bis content was spamming rpt after the 1.63 patch release, with undefined variable reports.

This reduced fps in game by about 10 unless you played with -nologs, as we all do.

Unfortunately most mods dont have proper variable definition either so they continue to spam rpt, but at least now the bis stuff is fixed.

Like i said ages ago before this thread got hijacked, there are a lot of fixes in the core patch that are invisible! But beneficial.

I am sure epoch server hosts will happily edit their core files to change the values back to what you prefer if you lobby them.

[theduke77 17]

As said before, the changes in core patch are harmonising content from a2 to OA functionality.

If you want something rolled back, to suit your own gaming preferences, then go lobby your mod maker.

Its hard to care about forum hogs who post long-winded arguments about how their point of view is more right or important than others.

Get back to bug reports please guys

you know i agree with bug fixes, but if we wouldnt of been called babies or said that were crying when all we did was started by voicing our opinions.  Started with the venom, but his story quickly changed...so its hard to not be frustrated, when the person that works on the corepatch, to fix updates on such a popular game becomes so immature.  Schatten should be removed from the BI team.  Read the rules i quoted.   and as we all know, who was insulting who.

 

This update was part bug fix and part "i want this (as in 10%) fix" because its more realistic..... so yes if you plan to fix bugs...why would we get mad and of course there is alot we dont see.  But, there is alot of problems this patch caused...and yesss i know we are modders, not important enough to have a word in without getting insutled...what happened to the grown ups???  No way shatten at such young age can say he knows all this much about "realism" in the battlefield