Jump to content
hcpookie

EF2000 Plane for the community

Recommended Posts

Agreed but people do seem to like to think it is don't they

 

Can I ask why it wasn't your "cup of tea"?

Indeed they do!  So let's hope no one tries to compare this apple to your orange although I'm sure they will LOL  :)    I had a hard time making missions w/ no loadout selection menu which had the effect of needing to populate an entire air force at the base... it got confusing!

 

Good job on fixing the frosting effect.

The only reason i mentioned rksl typhoon was to manage expectations so we dont get a flood of shitty comments on release complaining about it not being an advance on rocks bird.

It is a different beast as u say pook, handles differently and has a raft of innovative features, esp w.r.t survivability in your sam wracked airspaced

Some people expect addons to match their innermost hopes or else they get real pissy lol.

P.s. As soon as im back and have got the unsung vehicle weapons config done ill get onto the missilebox port.

 

Yeah you know those people will read to the "download here" link and stop reading... then complain and whine about things, so "oh well".  I just wanted to clarify I'm not trying to compete with anyone else's mods.  Good to hear about the weapons as they will certainly be a viable option for people who want better weapon selections in A3. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Indeed they do!  So let's hope no one tries to compare this apple to your orange although I'm sure they will LOL  :)    I had a hard time making missions w/ no loadout selection menu which had the effect of needing to populate an entire air force at the base... it got confusing!

I had a similar experience with Loadout options... well similar in that it caused the game to become completely unbalanced. We found that if we set the loadout in the init box in the editor that we had a much better gameplay experience. You see giving people the option to arma the aircraft with anything in the toolbox; invariably people chose the most effective (ie devastating) load.  More often than not a single pilot wiped out the OPFOR before the infantry even saw them. Thats why we've gone for something different in the v3.100 concept.  Something a tad more flexible but can be limited by the mission designers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I hear you!  Very difficult to balance that equation.  Egg does a "canned" loadout selection in his loadout selection menu for the RangeMaster mod, although it leans heavily toward game play vs. "realism" so to speak.

 

If ONLY we could have weapon weights affect the flight of the birds!  That would of course be realistic and a "flight sim lite" so to speak... then you wouldn't have the "bomb sled" loads that are simply stupid.  That's one thing I really miss from real flight sims like Falcon 4... :(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

P.s. As soon as im back and have got the unsung vehicle weapons config done ill get onto the missilebox port.

my hero <3

 

 

invariably people chose the most effective (ie devastating) load and more often than not a single pilot wiped out the OPFOR before the infantry even saw them.

i feel like the lack of effective threats to aircrafts plays no small part in that...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Server rules are key. We allow no random bombing, air assets must receive a tasking order from ground or observing rotary assets. So specific payloads get delivered for a particular identified threat. Unless we're all drunk and just having at it.

We do add fuel if fuel tanks are present, and the base fuel of 400 means that fuel tanks actually make a difference.

We do need to refine the fuel tank scripts and also the afterburner fuel depletion, that will help make fuel tanks more vital.

In real air tasking of course the plane might only carry 2gbus and fuel plus a couple of aams. But would that be a little onerous, like having to salute a senior officer passing by, or adding in post mission paperwork tasks lol

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In real air tasking of course the plane might only carry 2gbus and fuel plus a couple of aams. But would that be a little onerous, like having to salute a senior officer passing by, or adding in post mission paperwork tasks lol

Disagree - you fail to recognize the "triumph" of landing - intact and empty - at the airbase.  In theory this could be rewarded by a bonus point system that is given to the pilot only on completion of the sortie and landing of the plane.  Otherwise there is no penalty for flying over the AO and bombing until you are destroyed.  Respawn, wash, rinse, repeat... if the pilot's work could be rewarded w/ extra points for landing the plane intact, this would add a dynamic to the mission and make pilots more selective.  And give them even more negative points for crashing a plane.  They are pretty expensive after all...

 

However all of this is academic as it must be placed into the mission, not the addon itself.  Which is why if it is NOT in the mission, I prefer a more realistic, flight-sim-esque configuration and weapon loadout selection.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Disagree - you fail to recognize the "triumph" of landing - intact and empty - at the airbase.  In theory this could be rewarded by a bonus point system that is given to the pilot only on completion of the sortie and landing of the plane.  Otherwise there is no penalty for flying over the AO and bombing until you are destroyed.  Respawn, wash, rinse, repeat... if the pilot's work could be rewarded w/ extra points for landing the plane intact, this would add a dynamic to the mission and make pilots more selective.  And give them even more negative points for crashing a plane.  They are pretty expensive after all...

 

However all of this is academic as it must be placed into the mission, not the addon itself.  Which is why if it is NOT in the mission, I prefer a more realistic, flight-sim-esque configuration and weapon loadout selection.

Completely agree with the "Triumph of landing" aspect.  I'm not sure i agree with the reward side.  

 

What worked very well for us in DAR-V over the last 7-8 years was resource management.  We had to establish a secure way to get resources into the war zone - secure bases, roads and establish air defence/dominance etc that gives you the reward of automated logistics etc to support these custom loads.  Then options open up I'm not saying a loadout selection is not desirable.  Just that you need to carefully limit it until others get to have some fun too.  Its more an issue of mission design than anything else but as an addon maker you have to make it easy for the mission maker too.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah its all about balance

But also making a plane for ai to use means you do need to add a full rack for them to use

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah its all about balance

But also making a plane for ai to use means you do need to add a full rack for them to use

+1 to that and to Rocks comment.

 

Thanks for the plane, I got to see this plane at Duxford about a year ago.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But also making a plane for ai to use means you do need to add a full rack for them to use

I disagree. If you are using guided weapons 2-4 is more than enough for almost every application. If its unguided and your weapon config is good and you don't want cinematics a large load is just as bad as if a human is flying. I'd rather let them land an reload because its almost as bad as giving players a load of weapons.
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The AI seems to always favor Guided weaponry over Unguided, even when its a complete waste of a lock on weapon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To be honest the loadout / flight model behavior doesn't really matter either way.  Some people w/ more experience w/ flight sims like myself (I helped on the Falcon 4 Realism Pack etc) understand aircraft balance more than others.  Others simply think "oh I saw a picture of a 20x launcher rack on both sides of the airplane at an airshow or technology demonstrator and so it must be in use EVERYWHERE"... which is complete horse shit but you simply can't make non-flight sim people understand this delicate truth.  Case in point... how many bombs/weapons/etc. does a SU25 get loaded with in game?   20?  80?  LOL  OK... here's a current pic (Oct 2015) of Su-25's over SYRIA - where they arguably have air dominance with Air Superiority fighters running around out there, so no need for A-A or "light" loadouts to accommodate their flight envelope if they have to go defensive...

 

http://cdn3.img.sputniknews.com/images/102803/29/1028032964.jpg

 

pasted from here:
http://sputniknews.com/middleeast/20151005/1028027794/russia-warplanes-isil-base-destruction.html

 

Yep, count 'em... 6 - I repeat - SIX bombs.  And they appear to be FAB series "dumb" bombs but I don't have my references handy to validate that statement.  Yippee... six dumb bombs over "dominated" air space.  They certainly aren't triple-six-20-bomb launch rack loadouts from hell!  You can find dozens if not hundreds of references for NATO / US aircraft doing the same thing in their play areas...  A-10... 2x mav's and 14 rockets... Yippee. 

 

I love how "not" accurate their precision weapons are from the video footage you are starting to see, however that is a discussion for another time.

 

So.  Mission makers get the lovely task of making these balanced in-game instead of one-man flying Rambo machines of death.  And as stated previously they tend to lean on the "fun factor" since no weight, drag, or other flight model characteristics are penalized for doing so.  "oh well".  So you get "canned" loadouts that don't explore the full range of weapon selections or you get that "let me load it up with EVERYTHING" death machine as you stated.  BALANCE is a difficult thing to achieve and I think most people don't have their hearts in to it at that level.  Truly you would have to have your "normal" loadout, then do an addweapon/addmagazine each time you spawn an AI plane if you did want them to linger in the AO for longer than normal... OR here's a thought just have the AI spawn on a more random /semi frequent basis.

 

 

And yes it is difficult to compensate for this FPS "Soldier Game" lack of Flight Sim functionality.  I mean, look at the freaking flight envelope for crying out loud... everything I'm wishing for is basically a "flight sim lite" and if mission makers don't accommodate that it really can't be helped.  I am adding extra goodness like the TRD (Towed Radar Decoy), and a better RWR system I'm working on to make it "more interesting".  Also to survive against my SAM's :)  The EF-2000 game published back around 1998 was hands down one of the best games ever concocted.  Load it up too heavy, you can turn and fly as well as a bus!  :)  So it is a shame that here we are 17 years later and this platform can't achieve that level of fidelity in the flight model.  But then again this is a "Soldier Sim" so I can't complain too loudly!  Hopefully TitanIM will improve in this area.

 

Regardless, none of this is germane to the discussion since the MLOD's will let anyone who cares to do it "incorrectly" be able to do it for their mods... for better or for worse.  I find it somewhat humorous and perhaps it will help people gain a better understanding of proper aircraft usage in the long run.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The AI seems to always favor Guided weaponry over Unguided, even when its a complete waste of a lock on weapon.

I will guess that is because the weapon costs and vehicle costs are usually out of proportion.  Eggbeast did a lot of changes in his RangeMaster and Unsung work to balance the weapon costs vs. target costs to make the AI better at selecting their weapons.  FOr example we had enemy AI shooting their AK's at helicopters on a regular basis. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't over look that i am also a force for good - i recently reworked your mig25 loadouts where you had made them carry 2x6 racks of kab250s. I swapped that to 1 bomb per pylon,s ive never seen a rack used with kabs, i assume thats to do with the comms link.

I am in favour of less munitions these days.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not pointing fingers here.  Mig25 was an honest mistake based on pics I can't seem to find now of "in service" planes... that's another plane I need to release to the crowd but off topic.

 

LOOKIE HERE:

 

https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/setMass

 

Changes the mass of an object smoothly during the given time (in seconds). A time of zero (or using the alternative syntax) means an immediate change.

 

 

Also these:

 

https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/getMass

 

https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/getCenterOfMass

 

https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/setCenterOfMass

 

I am not entirely certain but it seems that these commands could alter the planes so that the loadouts will actually affect the flight model!  I'm very intrigued now and need to do some testing... They could be added as part of a loadout selection script... say: 

    setmass plane (getmass plane *1.1)

 

... something along those lines per weapon.  Holy cow this could work!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well there ARE different base camo schemes other than the default grey... this one looks like it is meant for service vs. airshow:

https://www.eurofighter.com/multimedia/details/second-winner-best-amateur-photograph-2015-colin-mcleod-1813

 

 

BTW I am getting the RWR working.  Not a bad little thing! :)  Only issue I have is that default pilot view is too far out to really see the detail... need to tweak the size or the pilot zoom settings I guess.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well there ARE different base camo schemes other than the default grey... this one looks like it is meant for service vs. airshow:

https://www.eurofighter.com/multimedia/details/second-winner-best-amateur-photograph-2015-colin-mcleod-1813

 

For UK there is only 2 schemes on the active service Typhoon.  

  1. All over ghost grey.
  2. 2 tone grey - This is legacy.  The underside was a lighter grey.  It was retired about 2007 but some of the older T1 & F2 airframes still have it.

And that pic is for a special celebration.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Got the ejection seat script working. I might add a cargo slot to it so "Behind Enemy Lines" style missions to retrieve the flight data module could be realized.  :)  Currently it de-spawns after 15 minutes but that could be scripted out.

 

seateject.jpg

 

All in all I'll say this bird is very close to being ready for prime time.  RWR seems to work well... script needs more polish however.  Also needs some missile box goodness to fill out all the roles. 

 

For the starter I may put CUP factions together.  Can't wait to hear the bitching about that, even though MLOD's will be available... perhaps I should just release MLOD's - now THAT would be the ticket!  :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I hear you!  Very difficult to balance that equation.  Egg does a "canned" loadout selection in his loadout selection menu for the RangeMaster mod, although it leans heavily toward game play vs. "realism" so to speak.

 

If ONLY we could have weapon weights affect the flight of the birds!  That would of course be realistic and a "flight sim lite" so to speak... then you wouldn't have the "bomb sled" loads that are simply stupid.  That's one thing I really miss from real flight sims like Falcon 4... :(

 

Why not in config file or something of the loadout menu give mission makers the ability to disable certain weapons and also have a number count for them? Kind of simulates that the airbase hasn't had a resupply of certain ordnance or they're running low.

 

For example

 

- If you have 2x GBU 10 2000lb JDAMs available left (In the loadout menu), you need to make the decision do you use them now or do you wait till they're actually needed.... that kinda thing. 

- Also allows the pilot to mix and match a custom loadout however just with restricted ordnance, so the loadout can be more GBU focused or a mix of GBU and AGM... that kinda thing. 

 

Anyway there are some thoughts. If possible of course. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nice! One of the best looking fighters out their-so sleek :) Can't wait for some fun in this!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×