1.54 Fatigue is too Unrealistic

[oukej 2910]

The creator of the AI, whichs was superb for its time, has left the team yeas ago. Noone dares to touch it since then. AI is unchanged since Armed Assault, the only change in all the time was to take away AI features. (remeber, in A2 they would react to you based on player rank and you could ask them things)

U sure about that? :ph34r:

People allocated to stamina/fatigue weren't the ones that are responsible for the AI. Nevertheless, mentioning that, one of the new stamina benefits is that AI is once again able to maintain formations without loosing members behind (outside of combat). Fyi - an adjustment of AI to the prev. fatigue wouldn't be feasible. I strongly believe the new mechanic provides stronger foundation and causes less issues.

[roberthammer 582]

BIS is backward-compatible

Ha - good one , maybe in A2 but hardly in A3

 

also say that to those broken mods/missions that each update breaks and i am tired of it when i have to fix things after each update

Fyi - an adjustment of AI to the prev. fatigue wouldn't be feasible. I strongly believe the new mechanic provides stronger foundation and causes less issues.

Yea , let's  blame the AI for not being good and dumb the features down because of it ...

 

and yes the A2 AI was superior than the A3 one

 

In the end the Life/RP guys will disable this new system - it was a waste time and effort

[bullet purveyor 85]

I don't understand why people complain about running.
With the new system you can run indefinitely at 14 kilometers per hour carrying up to 45 kilos of gear,
up and down hills with no penalties.(If they are extreme steep are you forced to walk). Thats an insane speed to keep up over longer distances with combat gear.
Sprint only gives you 4 km/h more, increasing your speed to 18.

 

A unit with no gear can sprint about 380 meters before running out of stamina,medium 200 meter, and a heavy only about 20m.

There is no need to rest when you are out of stamina though, just throttle away at 14km/h as long as you like.

 

I suspect average run speed is now greater than before, where you got fatigued by both run/sprint+ weight and had to take a breather every so often.

 

One of the things that make the sway a bit extreme is when you hold to long/release the breath button. If anyone still plays with that bound to right mouse button/zoom they should rebind it to a separate key, or I guess you will have a constant amount of huge vertical sway while zooming in.

 

 

Add a bit of fatigue back in or adjust run speed by weight, and make the sway a bit less extreme and this new system could be good.

[twakkie 57]

I don't understand why people complain about running.

With the new system you can run indefinitely at 14 kilometers per hour carrying up to 45 kilos of gear,

.....

 

People are confusing running with sprinting. But yes i agree, this system has a lot of potential.

[esfumato 75]

Just redo all the Arma 2 animations and systems into arma 3 engine and everything will be fine.

[maquez 141]

Biggest mistake BI did it is not optional via game configuration select able, very simple and all would be happy.

 

I did ask for a optional configuration in Feedback Tracker ... ticket got closed after 10 minutes.

 

This is still a game and should make fun for all

 

someone speaking about realism in a game make me always giggle

little advice to all realism junkies out here, go in your country head army office and sign to serve army then you will have realism.

[St. Jimmy 272]

I don't understand why people complain about running.

With the new system you can run indefinitely at 14 kilometers per hour carrying up to 45 kilos of gear,

up and down hills with no penalties.(If they are extreme steep are you forced to walk). Thats an insane speed to keep up over longer distances with combat gear.

Sprint only gives you 4 km/h more, increasing your speed to 18.

 

I suspect average run speed is now greater than before, where you got fatigued by both run/sprint+ weight and had to take a breather every so often.

I almost posted same kind of wondering before. It's interesting to hear complaining about this new stamina's running/sprinting when the stamina allows to do those things even more than with fatigue :D It's like some of them haven't played the game for all of these years. We're back to Arma 2 pace of movement and suddenly it's too restrict :391: OK I'm not sure how fast Arma 2 sprinting and running was but we're back to the point where it's allowed to do those things again infinite without thinking of slowing down.

[Beagle 684]

I almost posted same kind of wondering before. It's interesting to hear complaining about this new stamina's running/sprinting when the stamina allows to do those things even more than with fatigue :D It's like some of them haven't played the game for all of these years. We're back to Arma 2 pace of movement and suddenly it's too restrict :391: OK I'm not sure how fast Arma 2 sprinting and running was but we're back to the point where it's allowed to do those things again infinite without thinking of slowing down.

The new problem and reaon for dislike is not movement in 1.54 but the strange and unnatural, artificial weapon sway that you get for even the shortest movement

[Tankbuster 1733]

The new problem and reaon for dislike is not movement in 1.54 but the strange and unnatural, artificial weapon sway that you get for even the shortest movement

I agree. The stamina system itself is fine,but the sway is silly.

[Kryptongame 14]

Let's be honest, the new sprint and stamina system is Actually less restrictivr...however, the sway introduced now is entirely unrealistic. I have seen many ex-military say after running sprints with 100lbs gear, they are still accurate up to 500m with steady scope. That is like impossible now, and remember this is a game! Some things can't be simulated realistically, just consider the new sway! Ridiculous

[Beagle 684]

Seems liek the first BECTi servers are disablinf Stamina completyly now... the usage of Fatigue was usual there till today when the hotfix allowed the disabling of stamina... what a fail for BIS when even the few users of vanilla fatigue now turn stamina off.

So basically now the differnce between Arma III and ArmA II CTI (Warfare) is that I can wear a red hat in ArmA III

[Kryptongame 14]

Seems liek the first BECTi servers are disablinf Stamina completyly now... the usage of Fatigue was usual there till today when the hotfix allowed the disabling of stamina... what a fail for BIS when even the few users of vanilla fatigue now turn stamina off.

So basically now the differnce between Arma III and ArmA II CTI (Warfare) is that I can wear a red hat in ArmA III

They messed up royally. Fix sway please!!!

[rübe 127]

U sure about that? :ph34r:

Uhm...

 

Fyi - an adjustment of AI to the prev. fatigue wouldn't be feasible.

Yep. Pretty sure about that. :mellow:

 

Nevertheless, mentioning that, one of the new stamina benefits is that AI is once again able to maintain formations without loosing members behind (outside of combat).

Ohhh. So AI actually was a factor in the decision to butcher fatigue afterall?

Interesting...

You see, what pisses me of the most here is the communication from your side.

Remember that post from royalityinexile?

 

Ultimately, we have to compare the performance of the system against our originally stated design goals. In my view, if our end goal is to create a mechanic that:

• Encourages players to consider their loadout
• Asks players to plan their movement
• Rewards players that make objectively better choices
• Prohibits players from selecting unrealistic loadouts
• Is transparent and comprehensible for players

Then, bluntly put - in its current, fresh-out-the-oven incarnation - it fails to satisfactorily meet a number of those criteria.

 

It didn't make any sense then. And it doesn't make any sense now. And from there on there was barely any worthwile (and visible) interaction to discuss or at least clarify things.

Well, it's your game, so do whatever you want.  :P  

 

...I'd just prefer silence over some bullshit excuses, empty marketing babble and a good ol' smoke screen.

:unsure: 

[Beagle 684]

regarding marketing babble: the current stamina system is neither "realistic" nor is it "authentic". In fact it is just an annoyance and it has begun to drive me away from the game at the second day of it.

[KPABATOK 14]

Weapon sway is straigt up copy from DayZ SA. But not sure which one is worse, since once I found out about it, I stopped playing 1.54 completely. Wait until modders fix that.

[KPABATOK 14]

You little girl stop complaining we just need this to be applied in all MP server.

 

you little kid go back to school.

[Beagle 684]

U sure about that? :ph34r:

People allocated to stamina/fatigue weren't the ones that are responsible for the AI. Nevertheless, mentioning that, one of the new stamina benefits is that AI is once again able to maintain formations without loosing members behind (outside of combat). Fyi - an adjustment of AI to the prev. fatigue wouldn't be feasible. I strongly believe the new mechanic provides stronger foundation and causes less issues.

Yes I'm quite sure about the A.I. developtment. I as a user of the software can only see an degradation in the A.I. autonomous capabilities since Armed Assault.

ArmA III right now for me is mainly about missing features that the predecessor games had but with PhysX and red caps. I stil prefer ArmA II, and espacially right now since that game feels "broken" to me since 1.54 and the excessive sway for heavy weapons even on bipod which does not correlate with the experience I made as a conscript soldier operating such weapons.

 

You "fixed" Fatigue and it's often excessive slowdown o.k. but you introduced another problem that is, at least for me, even more aggravating with the strange sway and default unit loadouts that do not fit the stamina system.

[devilslayersbane 28]

(snip)

 

You "fixed" Fatigue and it's often excessive slowdown o.k. but you introduced another problem that is, at least for me, even more aggravating with the strange sway and default unit loadouts that do not fit the stamina system.

So what you're saying is that the sway is ridiculous. I definitely concede on that. I thought it was stupid excessive with the old system, but weapon resting helped solve it then. I will test to see if it still does. (I.E. i'm grabbing the biggest mg I can).

 

As far as the default loadouts go, yeah, those should be within the weight limits. I'd say that the weight limits be expanded to make sure that default loadouts aren't so heavy that sprinting is unavailable.

[Beagle 684]

Today I tried to fix my game by using the legacy  fatigue mod... guess what... it does not work because the 1.54 sway is still there. Double fail. Im really annoyed at this point.

[seba1976 98]

U sure about that? :ph34r:

People allocated to stamina/fatigue weren't the ones that are responsible for the AI. Nevertheless, mentioning that, one of the new stamina benefits is that AI is once again able to maintain formations without loosing members behind (outside of combat). Fyi - an adjustment of AI to the prev. fatigue wouldn't be feasible. I strongly believe the new mechanic provides stronger foundation and causes less issues.

Only 2 things:

 

1) I knew it! :)  It was indeed changed because the, then new/now old, fatigue system messed up the AI units. To quote myself - now proudly - the day fatigue was first introduced: "I'll believe in fatigue, the day we'll see AI waiting to catch their breath before attacking".

 

And 2) I fail to understand why we have the possibility to carry whatever we want, but only that we don't really. I mean, nobody will ever carry anything past the half of the load bar, in 99% of the cases, so why do we even have the possibility? You give the possibility, and then you need a penalty system to dissallow it... You really don't know what you are doing. And as user, I'm truly sorry about that -_- .

[bad benson 1733]

2) I fail to understand why we have the possibility to carry whatever we want, but only that we don't really. I mean, nobody will ever carry anything past the half of the load bar, in 99% of the cases, so why do we even have the possibility? You give the possibility, and then you need a penalty system to dissallow it... You really don't know what you are doing. And as user, I'm truly sorry about that -_- .

 

so damn spot on!

 

 

please for the love of god BI do these two simple things.

 

1. dynamic animation slow down based on load. carrying more = overall slower, or limit the effect to certain anims....get rid of the damn forced walk. it makes no sense in any case.

 

2. fix the sway. if you make it that extreme you have to make it recover much faster. this is basically the problem of the old system but worse. if i understood it correctly things are decoupled now properly. make use of that. limit extreme sway to after sprint and make it recover fast. put a cap on max sway for not sprinting. so you can have two behaviours for overall exhaustion and exhaustion caused by explosive movement (i just tested that ingame, easy to do with the new commands and works great).

 

if the system gets tweaked we won't have to fix it with mods. not talking about personal preference here. but things that are borderline broken if you apply common sense. the new commands should be for playing around and making interesting different approaches, not for fixing obvious flaws.

 

imho you are very close to something universial that can be considered a great vanilla set up.

[rob1 4]

Today I tried to fix my game by using the legacy  fatigue mod... guess what... it does not work because the 1.54 sway is still there. Double fail. Im really annoyed at this point.

I was pointed in the direction of this mod for SP, I haven't tested it but its supposed to restore 1.52 sway:    http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=26266

[froggyluv 2130]

 

 if you make it that extreme you have to make it recover much faster. this is basically the problem of the old system but worse. if i understood it correctly things are decoupled now properly. make use of that. limit extreme sway to after sprint and make it recover fast. put a cap on max sway for not sprinting. so you can have two behaviours for overall exhaustion and exhaustion caused by explosive movement (i just tested that ingame, easy to do with the new commands and works great).

 

 

 This makes the most sense ^^^

[semiconductor 309]

After a couple of missions I can't really say that I don't like the new stamina system or that the old one is better. It's... fine, I guess? Maybe not great but now it's obvious how the weight you're carrying correlates with your ability to sprint and you still can jog after you become fatigued (yes, I understand that this is not realistic but forced walking pace was so goddamn annoying I can't express it).

So while there is room for improvement, I think that BI made a step in right direction, more or less.

Just my humble opinion. :)

[BL1P 35]

I have only been able to get in a few games because of the "Out of Memory"  problem on servers atm.

But so far I prefer this system to the previous one.

I Actually have a need to use weapon rest now, where I never did before.