Pooter's enhanced ASR AI

[BohemiaBeck 305]

I have had to remove some posts for thread clean up.

Please remember to keep posts on topic to the thread.

[Incontinentia 339]

I was under the impression bCombat no longer functioned?I stopped using it some time ago. With regard to the ai not being able to hit me i have fixed that problem,but I find they still spend so much time running around looking for cover,then changes the cover spot etc..that it is far to easy to jst kill them all while they keep moving around. If they laid covering fire or something while they moved ok,but at the moment it is just too easy using asr.

 

It seems to work for me pretty well on single player, tested it with debug mode on and it was fine. Handles morale pretty well which seems to work well alongside ASR. 

[ineptaphid 6413]

It seems to work for me pretty well on single player, tested it with debug mode on and it was fine. Handles morale pretty well which seems to work well alongside ASR. 

Maybe I will try Bcomabat again then I just cannot use ASR now-it makes things too easy for me. Unfortunately.

[HammerShield 19]

Hi,

 

I already try bCombat, but never ever see any changes ingame.

 

ASR is a way too irrealistic and unbalanced in my opinion.

No AI move to cover, or only when spot hostiles AI or the player, and the hearing shot detection system is not good.

 

For example, AI spot a suppressed shot from really far but don't even spot a shot from an AK (from a mod) at only 20 meters.

And forcing us to use subsonic ammunitions is really a bad idea, there are too unaccurate.

 

VCOM AI seems good for covering, but it forced AI to patroling. Not good at all.

 

So, I just forget about AI mods and hope that BI will do something for this.

Actually, I already solve the problem for the combat position, no more grass eaters when firefights. Wait for some better things from BI or from another mod, or maybe an update of the existing ones.

[domokun 515]

Hi,

 

I already try bCombat, but never ever see any changes ingame.

 

ASR is a way too irrealistic and unbalanced in my opinion.

No AI move to cover, or only when spot hostiles AI or the player, and the hearing shot detection system is not good.

 

For example, AI spot a suppressed shot from really far but don't even spot a shot from an AK (from a mod) at only 20 meters.

And forcing us to use subsonic ammunitions is really a bad idea, there are too unaccurate.

 

VCOM AI seems good for covering, but it forced AI to patroling. Not good at all.

 

So, I just forget about AI mods and hope that BI will do something for this.

Actually, I already solve the problem for the combat position, no more grass eaters when firefights. Wait for some better things from BI or from another mod, or maybe an update of the existing ones.

How did you solve the problem?

[S.Crowe 142]

@HammerShield

 

VCOM is getting an update soon. Should be interesting.

 

Out of all the three AI mods I've tested: ASR, bCombat, and VCOM. VCOM is by far my favorite.

[ineptaphid 6413]

Hi,

 

I already try bCombat, but never ever see any changes ingame.

 

ASR is a way too irrealistic and unbalanced in my opinion.

No AI move to cover, or only when spot hostiles AI or the player, and the hearing shot detection system is not good.

 

For example, AI spot a suppressed shot from really far but don't even spot a shot from an AK (from a mod) at only 20 meters.

And forcing us to use subsonic ammunitions is really a bad idea, there are too unaccurate.

 

VCOM AI seems good for covering, but it forced AI to patroling. Not good at all.

 

So, I just forget about AI mods and hope that BI will do something for this.

Actually, I already solve the problem for the combat position, no more grass eaters when firefights. Wait for some better things from BI or from another mod, or maybe an update of the existing ones.

i have gone back to vanilla AI as well-but I use TPW too-which does some small changes to ai

[Incontinentia 339]

I've found with TPWCAS, ACE3 AI PBO and Pooter's, along with Elite difficulty and precision, AI works extremely well on a dedicated server and is able to get some pretty effective fire down on you, while flanking, using cover and generally being a complete nuisance (in a good way). Not as accurate as vanilla but I use Laxemann's align which makes my accuracy a bit worse too. I find that more realistic as it's not as easy as Arma to hit a target at 300 metres while standing with ironsights. bCombat and Pooter's work pretty well in single player for me, more accurate but less dynamic. I've increased the move to cover range to 100 metres and that seems to help a bit. 

[HammerShield 19]

 

 

How did you solve the problem?

 

By doing a script that force the AI to choose randomly between crouched or standing position instead of prone while in combat behaviour.

 

 

VCOM is getting an update soon. Should be interesting.

 

Out of all the three AI mods I've tested: ASR, bCombat, and VCOM. VCOM is by far my favorite.

 

I like VCOM as well. Going under cover and flanking the shooter's position is really great.

Just dislike the patrolling AI forced by VCOM. Without that, I'll surely keep it.

 

Wait for update. Hope they'll disable or even add an alternative to disabling the patrol script. Already available, but with th conditions, the AI don't move anymore, so don't move under cover or don't flank.

 

 

 

i have gone back to vanilla AI as well-but I use TPW too-which does some small changes to ai

 

I've nerver tested any TPW AI mod. They always seems to just modify only one aspect of the AI.

I search for a general one.

 

Close to find it with VCOM, but the patroling script is not at my taste.

[domokun 515]

By doing a script that force the AI to choose randomly between crouched or standing position instead of prone while in combat behaviour.

 

 

I like VCOM as well. Going under cover and flanking the shooter's position is really great.

Just dislike the patrolling AI forced by VCOM. Without that, I'll surely keep it.

 

Wait for update. Hope they'll disable or even add an alternative to disabling the patrol script. Already available, but with th conditions, the AI don't move anymore, so don't move under cover or don't flank.

 

 

I've nerver tested any TPW AI mod. They always seems to just modify only one aspect of the AI.

I search for a general one.

 

Close to find it with VCOM, but the patroling script is not at my taste.

Interesting. But why remove the option of prone? Is it releated to slower movement and/or firing options?

[HammerShield 19]

 

 

But why remove the option of prone? Is it releated to slower movement and/or firing options?

 

Why removing the option of prone ?

 

Not really removed. AI is still able to prone. By order, or even by script, and maybe I'll add an option for some of them go prone if distance is above a certain value, or allowing go prone if the unit is a marksman or gunner/heavygunner.

 

Actually, I just let this like that to definitly losing this impression of hunting grass during firefights.

All the AI go prone when a bullet is fired, and for the player, it's like firing on grass. And like the AI can see through grass and not the player, that avoid me to always being hit or killed by a bullet coming from an hostile that I can't see and that, in reality, can't see me neither while I'm laying or crouching somewhere.

 

AI is too often able to hit the player or allied AI by shoothing through the grass even if in a normal way, they can't see through.

 

Now, like the AI is still at the maximum in term of skill (the value in the Editor for each entity) and like I really disable all that can break realism, like the crosshair, this little script let me see hostiles and don't let me defenceless and killed by a bullet fired by an hostile laying in the grass at 300 meters that can't see me in reality.

 

Imagine a FPS that always give you ennemies laying on the floor.

Boring, and not realistic, right ?

It's because of that.

 

And with that, no more hostiles on a roof that must be killed but can't being killed because laying and so, not visible.

And I can see more often interesting ragdolls, like hitting an hostile in a roof, close to the railing, or even in stairs, and see him falling from above in realistic ways.

 

More interesting and more action.

[Incontinentia 339]

Imagine a FPS that always give you ennemies laying on the floor.

Boring, and not realistic, right ?

It's because of that.

 

One of the first things you get taught in basic training is to get prone and crawl to cover as soon as you get contacted while out in the open (almost exactly like Pooter's do). Only crouch / stand if that's the only possible way to see the enemy and return fire, and even then, no more than a few shots before you crawl to a different position. Obviously in CQB / urban environments you alter this to fit the surroundings, but Arma already does this. I don't think you'd ever find a trained soldier standing or kneeling in the open for more than the bare minimum time required to get a few shots off. For untrained forces though, that's probably accurate (keep seeing videos of Syrian rebels taking it in turns to stand in the open firing from the hip - almost all of the videos end with one of them getting shot). I get what you're saying about AI being able to see you in grass though. If there was a way to make them take shots from a kneeling position when in long grass and then return to prone afterwards it might feel a bit more authentic, or even to change the amount the AI knows about opponents lying in long grass. 

[HammerShield 19]

That's not my way to have this.

 

With many friends, in cooperative in ArmA III, we often win by just using the crouched or stand position.

 

Because of three things :

- We see better than laying.

- We move better and faster than laying.

- We easily can use all the weapon resting objects.

 

And we survive and neutralize hostiles more often than always stupidly go prone like all others and never see anybody.

 

And you can be surprized of the number of trained soldiers or even Special Forces that stayed crouched or stand while engaging opposing forces.

Mobility and visibility.

 

And it's the case for me in ArmA now using my script.

 

But I understand those who like to lay in the grass by waiting for one of the opposite forces being half seen or go crouch or stand to shoot him.

For me, I have enought to sleep waiting for something in ArmA, solo or cooperative.

 

Since we use this, it's a damn drastically change. No more soldiers swimming in the grass all the time, even inside structures.

 

Go prone in training, yes, but only if you don't know from where the shots coming or if you are in an open area.

And go prone is not always the solution. It can be the worst choice of your life in many situations.

 

So, no more general prone AI.

Better like this for me.

[Incontinentia 339]

That's not my way to have this.

 

With many friends, in cooperative in ArmA III, we often win by just using the crouched or stand position.

 

Because of three things :

- We see better than laying.

- We move better and faster than laying.

- We easily can use all the weapon resting objects.

 

And we survive and neutralize hostiles more often than always stupidly go prone like all others and never see anybody.

 

And you can be surprized of the number of trained soldiers or even Special Forces that stayed crouched or stand while engaging opposing forces.

Mobility and visibility.

 

And it's the case for me in ArmA now using my script.

 

But I understand those who like to lay in the grass by waiting for one of the opposite forces being half seen or go crouch or stand to shoot him.

For me, I have enought to sleep waiting for something in ArmA, solo or cooperative.

 

Since we use this, it's a damn drastically change. No more soldiers swimming in the grass all the time, even inside structures.

 

Go prone in training, yes, but only if you don't know from where the shots coming or if you are in an open area.

And go prone is not always the solution. It can be the worst choice of your life in many situations.

 

So, no more general prone AI.

Better like this for me.

 

As a trained soldier, I'd probably not be surprised and no, no regular or special forces stand up or kneel in the open unless that is the only way to effectively engage the enemy. Just like every other trained force, they only expose the minimum target they possibly can for the minimum duration they need to, then they get back in cover. You don't ever stand / crouch out in the open the whole time, not in training or real life, because the enemy you can't see will be zeroing his sights on you from the moment you are exposed to the moment you drop back down. You are also able to engage much more accurately when prone, so if you can effectively get rounds on the enemy from prone, you will. Of course, if you have hard cover then you use that, but in the open, in grass, you get as low as you possibly can. Always. 

 

But this is a game, it's your preference to have AI stand / crouch and you find it more fun that way. Plus you have a script for that. For me, it's different. For someone else, it will be different again. This doesn't mean better or worse. If you aren't offering constructive feedback to Pooter though, I suspect there are more apt threads to discuss what you don't like about Arma's AI. 

[HammerShield 19]

I know trained soldiers, and many of them asking me clearly that in the field, they never have the time to just laying down and wait for firing on a target.

Laying and waiting is the better way to be flanked or easily killed.

 

They need to move, and covering each others.

And for moving and covering, they are all crouched or stand, they only lay when they keep their position away or when they are at the top of a hill or in any position surrounding the area and need an accurate position, for marskman or heavygunner work.

 

So, between trained soldiers that already go in the field and I know, and someone that I don't know anything, I prefer to follow the experience of the first ones.

It's so easy for someone that want to have the last word to say "I'm a trained soldier" to try to give more importance to their words than an other. Strange, right ? You're a trained soldier...

 

Anyway, at the beginning, my idea was to give to Pooter a way to add this script in his mod, but like it seems that nobody are interest and they all prefer to see laying slow AI, I just disabled the link.

 

I'm in the correct area, and you asked me for an explanation about that.

So, when you say that I should go away and find a better place to speak about that, it's what we called self-contradiction.

 

I don't find it more "fun", ArmA is not a fun game. Like I find this too much, I asked for many friends that already go in the field, and they all said me that it's never like that when they are on the field.

They move to cover, but those who go prone do it if they are really obligated because they must to move, and moving is the way to say alive, unlike laying and moving slowly or not at all make them easy targets.

Like they said, in the field it's never like in training.

 

For a trained soldier, I was thinking you know this.

 

Anyway, my script is really appreciated by some friends, and even those who played ArmA and are in the Army liked it.

For the same reasons I already explained compared to their experiences on the field.

 

And like you said, if you not offering constructive feedback to this mod, I suspect there are more better threads to discuss about what you have to say.

[Incontinentia 339]

I know trained soldiers, and many of them asking me clearly that in the field, they never have the time to just laying down and wait for firing on a target.

Laying and waiting is the better way to be flanked or easily killed.

 

They need to move, and covering each others.

And for moving and covering, they are all crouched or stand, they only lay when they keep their position away or when they are at the top of a hill or in any position surrounding the area and need an accurate position, for marskman or heavygunner work.

 

So, between trained soldiers that already go in the field and I know, and someone that I don't know anything, I prefer to follow the experience of the first ones.

It's so easy for someone that want to have the last word to say "I'm a trained soldier" to try to give more importance to their words than an other. Strange, right ? You're a trained soldier...

 

Anyway, at the beginning, my idea was to give to Pooter a way to add this script in his mod, but like it seems that nobody are interest and they all prefer to see laying slow AI, I just disabled the link.

 

I'm in the correct area, and you asked me for an explanation about that.

So, when you say that I should go away and find a better place to speak about that, it's what we called self-contradiction.

 

I don't find it more "fun", ArmA is not a fun game. Like I find this too much, I asked for many friends that already go in the field, and they all said me that it's never like that when they are on the field.

They move to cover, but those who go prone do it if they are really obligated because they must to move, and moving is the way to say alive, unlike laying and moving slowly or not at all make them easy targets.

Like they said, in the field it's never like in training.

 

For a trained soldier, I was thinking you know this.

 

Anyway, my script is really appreciated by some friends, and even those who played ArmA and are in the Army liked it.

For the same reasons I already explained compared to their experiences on the field.

 

And like you said, if you not offering constructive feedback to this mod, I suspect there are more better threads to discuss about what you have to say.

 

Well laying and waiting to be flanked isn't really what I was describing (as I think you probably know), it was the inability to go prone in combat that I found unrealistic, especially out in the open. Or, as you say, "always stupidly go prone" when you come under fire. I only mention that I'm a trained soldier because when you use phrases like "always stupidly go prone" and "grass eaters" / "I understand those who like to lay in the grass", it comes across like you think anyone who disagrees with you is stupid. My being a trained soldier should indicate that my opinion has as much credibility as yours (just to give you a heads up, do not ever try to tell me or any other military person about the difference between training and "in the field" again, it is incredibly rude, especially coming from a civilian). 

 

If your friends are infantry soldiers, they'll know that you choose the stance that exposes you the least. If you're in a ditch, you stand to take a few shots over the ditch, if you're behind a low wall, you kneel to shoot over the wall, if you're out in the open, you go prone and may use fire and manoeuvre to get to cover if there is some nearby (i.e. sprinting for a short time then prone again to provide cover fire, not the weird crouched stroll Arma AI seems to do) or you may have to hold there to provide support. If the ground is undulating or covered in foliage, maybe you'll kneel when you're shooting and return to prone after a while to shift positions so the enemy doesn't slot you when you pop back up. Quite often you'll find yourself laying down cover fire while another team move up to flank, which you'll do prone if you can get a clear line of sight that way. I'd absolutely love to see this kind of use of stance in Arma and Pooter's is the closest I've seen so far. In some situations, such as when doing vehicle drills or breaking contact, you won't have the time to go prone, so perhaps that's what you're referring to. But the point is, for normal infantry combat you do use prone fairly often as and when the situation dictates. It really irritates me when AI stand or sit out in the open like they have no fear of incoming rounds, makes it far too easy. So to not have AI not be able to choose to go prone isn't as realistic as you suggest in my opinion, but it is a gameplay choice you prefer for a variety of valid reasons. And Arma is a fun game. Why else would anyone play it? 

 

Let me explain my comment about switching thread. When you say "ASR is a way too irrealistic and unbalanced in my opinion", maybe you don't mean it this way, but it looks like you are belittling someone's effort on their own thread, especially if you use that comment to talk about how your way is better. Suggestions are great, but saying "your mod is bad and I won't use it, I use my own script instead, which I won't release because the community doesn't deserve it" comes across as fairly obnoxious when someone else has put a lot of effort into their mod. If you're going to release your script or incorporate it into Pooter's, do it, and I'm sure a lot of people will really appreciate it because hunting grass is irritating even if my experience tells me it's a lot more realistic than you think. If not, it's probably not the best idea to complain about ASR and tell everyone why you think it's bad on raptoer's thread without saying anything particularly constructive, then push your own script that you won't release. Do that in a different thread instead. 

 

Anyway, I doubt I'd get the last word as your comments suggest you seem to be taking this quite personally (you shouldn't, nothing I've said should be insulting to you in any way) so that's not my main effort. My main effort is to give encouragement to a mod I think gives a more realistic cover mechanic than anything else I've seen in Arma rather than let people talk about how unrealistic it is unchallenged. I've got some experience so that does give my opinion some credibility. Not any more than yours, but certainly no less. 

 

Now, to bring this thread on to the topic, is there a way you think your script can be incorporated into ASR and called in certain situations where prone would be silly (like breaking contact / CQB drills / when not caught out in the open) or is that not possible? I don't know much about scripting in Arma so it would be good to know if you think that's doable. 

 

I'd use emoticons to try to lighten this post up if I didn't die a little bit inside at the thought of using them. 

[♠ Deadpool ♠ 46]

Chiiiimi-FREAKIN-changas!!! I just got back from a very long vacation with my neighbor's hot wife, and after reading those previous posts on this thread I think I just smeared some nutella on my white undies.

Anyway, Is this still being worked on for the latest update? because I kinda like how the AI behaves on this mod. In fact, the creator of this mod deserves a manly hug, some good lovin and a whole year supply of chimichangas.  Me likey! <3 <3 <3

[michael_ek 12]

I really like how this mod improves the ai's capacity to react sharply during combat. The only issue I've noticed is that the ai sometimes seems to clump behind cover. I've often turned a corned and found a whole opfor team huddled behind the wall, or lying stationary in a depression in the terrain. Other than that, I think you did a great job enhancing the original ASR AI!

[autigergrad 2034]

FWIW, we've been using Pooter's ASR in our Taliban Sangin campaign to great effect. The enemy does a great job of looking for cover and flanking. Very good stuff.

If I had one issue it might be that sometimes the AI seems to go brain dead while hiding in a building...staring at a wall instead of the doorway or entranceway to protect itself. That's probably my only gripe, but it doesn't happen all the time.

It's a great enhancement AI for our coop nights.

[froggyluv 2130]

If I had one issue it might be that sometimes the AI seems to go brain dead while hiding in a building...staring at a wall instead of the doorway or entranceway to protect itself.

 

 

 Thats really something that needs to be addressed at engine level -giving AI the awareness of things like doors and windows. Then you would see AI modders going apeshit on that but until that fateful day...I'll just keep holdin up my doomsday sign...

[raptoer 66]

 Thats really something that needs to be addressed at engine level -giving AI the awareness of things like doors and windows. Then you would see AI modders going apeshit on that but until that fateful day...I'll just keep holdin up my doomsday sign...

It's actually easier than you would think to determine where a window or a door is. I can do object intersections using lineIntersectsSurfaces to find them (as long as the door is open). The problem though is that I have no way to tell that individual AI to turn a particular direction. I can tell his whole group to face one way, or I can force him to instantly snap to that way, but no smooth way.

 

Additionally I have the difficulty of when to do this check/direction setting. I basically have 3 options, do it once on start, do it periodically, or do it on dangerous events. On start will probably just get overridden by some other AI behavior, periodically and on dangerous events both have the problem that I could be telling the AI to face away from something important just because it now realizes there is a door.

 

I really like how this mod improves the ai's capacity to react sharply during combat. The only issue I've noticed is that the ai sometimes seems to clump behind cover. I've often turned a corned and found a whole opfor team huddled behind the wall, or lying stationary in a depression in the terrain. Other than that, I think you did a great job enhancing the original ASR AI!

Yeah, when I was working on this I realized that might happen. The leader of each group effectively assigns cover positions for his group, but there is no inter-group cooperation. I considered addressing it, but deemed it too difficult for the gain. Since each leader acts complete independently of the others I would have to keep a master list of taken positions and then maintain that list. The other option which I might do is have the AI not consider a position valid if there is another unit within a certain distance of it.

 

Chiiiimi-FREAKIN-changas!!! I just got back from a very long vacation with my neighbor's hot wife, and after reading those previous posts on this thread I think I just smeared some nutella on my white undies.

Anyway, Is this still being worked on for the latest update? because I kinda like how the AI behaves on this mod. In fact, the creator of this mod deserves a manly hug, some good lovin and a whole year supply of chimichangas.  Me likey! <3 <3 <3

Calm down there, it's an AI mod not a chair made of plastic explosive.

 

Anyways, I will be merging in the latest ASR_AI version shortly. I have been putting it off for no valid reason except that it's not a particularly interesting thing to do. Also the group I play with decided to not use this mod and uses base ASR_AI instead, so I've kind of lost interest.

[raptoer 66]

Updated to verstion 0.2-0.9.28 (merge in ASR_AI 0.9.28).

[Guest]

New version frontpaged on the Armaholic homepage.

Pooter's enhanced ASR AI v0.2.0-0.9.28

Community Base addons A3

[kecharles28 197]

Updated mod v0.2.1.928 available at withSIX. Download now by clicking:

[♠ Deadpool ♠ 46]

 

Calm down there, it's an AI mod not a chair made of plastic explosive.

 

Anyways, I will be merging in the latest ASR_AI version shortly. I have been putting it off for no valid reason except that it's not a particularly interesting thing to do. Also the group I play with decided to not use this mod and uses base ASR_AI instead, so I've kind of lost interest.

 

Oh you know how I roll bro, I like it intense! Well, blame the uncontrollable raging hormones! Anyway, thanks for updating. You are really awesome, so you still deserve a manly hug. Love you! <3 <3 <3