"Apex" Expansion - New Co-op campaign on Tanoa?

[OMAC 254]

Just saw this today:

 

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/arma-3-free-updates-and-editor-announced-as-sales-/1100-6431407/?utm_source=daily_updates_registered&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Arma+3

 

Following these two updates will be Arma III's next paid expansion, Apex. It features a 100km2 South Pacific map called Tanoa. This was initially revealed at E3 2015 during the first-ever PC Gaming Show. In addition, players can expect a new co-op campaign, as well as more vehicles, weapons, and characters. Though Apex is a paid expansion, all players can expect a free quality-of-life update alongside it.

 

 

Apex?  Co-op campaign?  First I have heard of Apex as the name of the Tanoa expansion. Perhaps I've missed some SITREP...

 

Will campaign also be playable in SP?

[Greenfist 1863]

You can read the whole thing here: http://arma3.com/news/arma-3-roadmap-2015-16

Some discussion about it: https://forums.bistudio.com/topic/117308-development-blog-reveals/

 

I assume the campaign is also playable in single.

[R3vo 2652]

They didn't mention Dx12 at all, other than that, I'm really looking forward to those updates. ;)

[cosmic10r 2324]

A coop bis campaign would be a nice addition :)

[roberthammer 582]

They didn't mention Dx12 at all, other than that, I'm really looking forward to those updates. ;)

Maybe there won't be a DX12 for A3 , that wouldn't be a big surprise to me

[IndeedPete 1038]

It's very early to prognose anything regarding the campaign but there are certain pitfalls with Coop campaigns as we've seen in the past. If every mission has to feature the exact same amount of players, I can see many limitations in mission design already. But I'm certain they can get it right this time and stick to the strengths the East Wind had.

[OMAC 254]

It's very early to prognose anything regarding the campaign but there are certain pitfalls with Coop campaigns as we've seen in the past. If every mission has to feature the exact same amount of players, I can see many limitations in mission design already. But I'm certain they can get it right this time and stick to the strengths the East Wind had.

Very good points.  I was wondering/worrying about the same things.  Also, no possibility for missions with player alone...??

[froggyluv 2130]

 Id appreciate if they allowed for more deviation of plot -such as your name is "Pvt Luis" and your budd is "Pvt Jonesy" -now Jonesy gets killed and you can either keep going without him, re load last save OR just allow him to teamswitch to#3!! Personally I dont give a monkey's banana whether the dialog has to have MY NAME in it all the time negating other factors of the game just to cater to that little thrill. Simply call all the men "Men!" and you solve alot of these needing to script every moment and 'keep all major characters alive by shortcut' at any cost. Sometimes generic works good and imo, prefer it.

[OMAC 254]

^ ^ I agree.  I heard they had to spend MASSIVE AMOUNTS of dev time accounting for dialogs, etc. related to such situations.  That time may be better spent on plot/mission development.

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

Maybe there won't be a DX12 for A3 , that wouldn't be a big surprise to me

I don't remember where i saw it, but a Dev already mentioned their working on getting DX12, for sure. My best guess is it's likely to arrive the same time as the Visual Update.

[IndeedPete 1038]

Very good points.  I was wondering/worrying about the same things.  Also, no possibility for missions with player alone...??

 

I see no reason why playable units shouldn't be replaced by AI in SP. Though the "lone warrior" scenarios, like the first mission of Adapt, won't be possible anymore. On the other hand, we might get mission design actually favouring teamwork and specialists. I don't know, there's a lot of potential in a Coop campaign but it also bears risks.

 

 Id appreciate if they allowed for more deviation of plot -such as your name is "Pvt Luis" and your budd is "Pvt Jonesy" -now Jonesy gets killed and you can either keep going without him, re load last save OR just allow him to teamswitch to#3!! Personally I dont give a monkey's banana whether the dialog has to have MY NAME in it all the time negating other factors of the game just to cater to that little thrill. Simply call all the men "Men!" and you solve alot of these needing to script every moment and 'keep all major characters alive by shortcut' at any cost. Sometimes generic works good and imo, prefer it.

 

I see your point though keeping track of (dead) characters is quite challenging from a narrative point of view. And dialogues suited to certain characters feel much more realistic.

 

^ ^ I agree.  I heard they had to spend MASSIVE AMOUNTS of dev time accounting for dialogs, etc. related to such situations.  That time may be better spent on plot/mission development.

 

Yes, but writing the dialogues, doing the voice acting, and designing the mission are three different things. I don't know their organisation of course, but I'd assume they hire professional writers and actors for their dialogues. So the dev maybe provides the writer with a few ideas or a rough version of what needs to be said in a certain situation, and the writers, audio guys, and actors take care of the rest.

[froggyluv 2130]

 Well have a primary branch and a generic secondary branch -hell I don't care if they just use Sidechat for the latter :P

 

 My feelings on the matter are that primary characters that are critical to storyline either have no place on the battlefield or place them in situations so heavily favored they cant possibly die. Jack friendly AI there to max, enemies to min, full body armor to friendlies well, you get the point. If even that doesnt work then the AI is utterly broken and you can never really have a tactical advantage period. Of course, there is always setcaptive true as backup as well.

 

 All the fancy voice acting and what not can still be used but dont give it to the main character, I really dont like it when some squeeky 18yo kid is speaking for me. Thats why GTA 3 was  best, main guy had no voice so he could just be you. Dont wanna be Lil' Vinnie from Long Island!

 

A non-branching storyline is a tedious one.

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

 Well have a primary branch and a generic secondary branch -hell I don't care if they just use Sidechat for the latter :P

 

I do. I'd at least hope by the time the Expansion drops, there's a better form of vocal communication implemented. Something less dry, and more optimized than the current.

[froggyluv 2130]

Not sure what your talking about, I'm meaning should the primary character die yet you wanted to continue to play as a generic character, you should be able to as they could simply use infinite text rather then costly, limited voice acting.

[R3vo 2652]

I don't remember where i saw it, but a Dev already mentioned their working on getting DX12, for sure. My best guess is it's likely to arrive the same time as the Visual Update.

 

It was officially announced at a games show and Merk Spanel tweeted it awhile ago.

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

Not sure what your talking about, I'm meaning should the primary character die yet you wanted to continue to play as a generic character, you should be able to as they could simply use infinite text rather then costly, limited voice acting.

ahh, i see. Yeah, that makes sense, co-op and story lines don't go well together, unless it's a vague, no name, low detailed hired guns situation or something like that. 

[chortles 263]

Re: how SP is handled for a co-op campaign... simply having AI fill the slots will be tricky, because I recall reviews of Resident Evil 5 (such as IGN's) noting that two player co-op was perfectly good/great but that the partner AI was not nearly as efficient about ammo/healing herb consumption...

[Wiki 1558]

Harvest Red was coop, and when played SP, we had to manage the AI of our teammates.

I hope it won't be like that again :s

[Belbo 461]

Harvest Red was coop, and when played SP, we had to manage the AI of our teammates.

I hope it won't be like that again :s

Srsly, it wasn't all that bad. I quite liked the sp campaign - especially because of the fact that you could play it with friends. I'd rather toss any sp campaign in favor of a coop campaign.

[rübe 127]

I see your point though keeping track of (dead) characters is quite challenging from a narrative point of view. And dialogues suited to certain characters feel much more realistic.

 

I do. I'd at least hope by the time the Expansion drops, there's a better form of vocal communication implemented. Something less dry, and more optimized than the current.

• Implement some state of the art text-to-speech (TTS) solution.
• Screw voice acting, and train a bunch of models instead.
• Profit!

B)

[OMAC 254]

Not being limited by co-op, as in having same number of slots for each mission, provides vastly more mission design possibilities.  But perhaps BI has cool and fancy ideas up their sleeves to make the campaign enjoyable for both SP and co-op.   Never having played a co-op campaign*, I am NOT HAPPY, but equally not surprised, by BI's decision to go co-op for Apex.  They've been dying to shitcan SP for quite a while.  <_<  :(  :angry:

 

As wiki wrote above, I hope I won't be managing AI for every single mission.  Jeesh.  And who the hell has 6 or 8 friends who are all trustworthy/competent and can play at the same time?  Not me, that's for sure.

 

Given the other A3 DLCs, none of which I have bought or want, I guess I will have to wait for months after Apex release to see if the campaign gets good SP reviews before purchasing.

 

*played Harvest Red, and all other BI campaigns, strictly in SP.

[rakowozz 14]

If Arma depended on their latest SP campaign (East Wind) to sell the game, I know I wouldn't buy it. Hated every second of it - it's a strong word, but it's not often I use it do describe a game. Bootcamp update short campaign felt like a major improvement to me, though.

 

I saw a lot of wasted potential in the main campaign, and it's great news it'll be co-op this time. If executed right, they absolutely can integrate a better storyline (where it's not difficult to improve on, considering the last effort).

[inlesco 233]

If Arma depended on their latest SP campaign (East Wind) to sell the game, I know I wouldn't buy it. Hated every second of it - it's a strong word, but it's not often I use it do describe a game. Bootcamp update short campaign felt like a major improvement to me, though.

 

I saw a lot of wasted potential in the main campaign, and it's great news it'll be co-op this time. If executed right, they absolutely can integrate a better storyline (where it's not difficult to improve on, considering the last effort).

I wouldn't mind you elaborating on the 'wasted potential' of the vanilla campaign.

 

Sure, it had its rough edges, but it was pretty decent and has no equals in terms of quality and duration compared to other military game campaigns. Don't make them colors too dramatic.

[silentghoust 132]

No idea why people hated the Arma 3 campaign. If you play it over again and pay attention to all of the little details. You open up a HUGE plot that leaves almost everything open on what happened. A good example would be a major explosion at a certain main base on the first mission. Just look were it happened and think about some other factors that you see.

As for the AI, really they are not bad at all in small groups. If you stick to AI pace when it comes to combat, and cation movement. You will realize they are actually really good at covering both their 6 and yours. 

 

[drebin052 323]

As for the AI, really they are not bad at all in small groups. If you stick to AI pace when it comes to combat, and cation movement. You will realize they are actually really good at covering both their 6 and yours. 

 

I would think that the main complaint about the AI squad members in Harvest Red was strictly due to the fact that you'd fail the mission instantly if any of them died since the First Aid Module didn't save them from explosions or headshots, not to mention them getting stuck while following you or taking an absurd amount of time to get into a vehicle or building due to the pathfinding.

 

This meant that you spent more time keeping them alive than actually doing the objectives themselves; assuming you didn't just leave them hidden away in a safe place anyway, which meant that they became redundant. Hopefully the Apex campaign will follow the OA route and avoid this problem altogether.