VBS2/3 Discussion thread - the one and only

[Make Love Not War 10]

Also trenches in Arma can't be done. There is no way to clip terrain surfaces sadly. They BIS claimed they didn't add it to A3 because of AI problems. Frankly that is unacceptable in my opinion and is the one feature I am amazed they have not added.

How long have trenches/dug in fortifications been part of warfare? 1000 years? Yea, they are kind of essential.

No arguments from me. I agree completely. If the inability of AI to make proper and intelligent use of trenches and underground structures was the hang-up, then why do we still have buildings in A3? The only possible way to approximate dug-in fortifications and positions in Arma is to do what you guys did in ACE and fake them by making them above ground. Iron Front did some pretty nice work using the same technique.

[froggyluv 2130]

If so, VBS has my undivided attention; they are this >< close to getting my money. I'm not sure what the limitations of the simulator's personal edition are going to be, but both as a gamer and an aspiring modder it makes a lot more sense for me to invest, say, $250 into a sim and company that is pushing the tech forward and seems to be in-touch with its (potential) users' wants and needs, rather than spending $30 (a fraction of the money) upfront but then wasting countless hours and massive amounts of psychological capital on trying to wrestle with an extremely limiting SDK (calling SQF and its attendant tools that for lack of a better term). Watching especially this last vid makes me weep for Arma.

Yes it no doubt looks sexy but have you played Vbs2 before? It has it's faults as well and you are much more likely to feel like it's just you, your software and no else -isolated with it. Not to say VbS doesn't have definite upsides but I think many in here see some of their features and think it's got everything that Arma needs -remember, they're generally an engine behind...

[progamer 14]

Yes it no doubt looks sexy but have you played Vbs2 before? It has it's faults as well and you are much more likely to feel like it's just you, your software and no else -isolated with it. Not to say VbS doesn't have definite upsides but I think many in here see some of their features and think it's got everything that Arma needs -remember, they're generally an engine behind...

The RV4 engine is not really better than RV3 actually. VBS3 is on the RV3 engine with things ported from the RV4 engine.

I have no doubt if VBS3 PE was marketed towards the sim market, they would completely dominate.

[Make Love Not War 10]

Yes it no doubt looks sexy but have you played Vbs2 before? It has it's faults as well and you are much more likely to feel like it's just you, your software and no else -isolated with it. Not to say VbS doesn't have definite upsides but I think many in here see some of their features and think it's got everything that Arma needs -remember, they're generally an engine behind...

Fair enough. No doubt VBS, like any other piece of software, has its faults. Didn't mean to suggest otherwise. And, yes, of course you're much more isolated with VBS as the non-pro community is tiny compared to even a game like Arma. That's a fair and valid point as well.

Nevertheless, the key difference is that one product appears to be pushing forward and innovating while the other feels stagnant on some very important fronts. Not that BIS hasn't made strides forward with A3, but since the Alpha release the development process from a feature standpoint has been awfully dry. I'm not even talking about seeing new, wonderful and crazy stuff from BIS either; I'm talking about the team simply finding the time to properly finish off introduced features such as grenade throwing or sea-based operations.

Also, don't want to come across like I don't appreciate that BIS and BSim are working from two totally separate pools in terms of financial support from clients. Nevertheless, BIS can't be suffering too badly considering they just threw 500k Euros at the community contest. If they are so hard pressed for resources, then I would have prefered they had spent the money on increasing their programmers' salaries and incentivizing new hires. Think that couse of action would have been much more useful to both players and the modding community in the long run. All this is complete speculation on my part, of course, so please take everything with a healthy dose of salt, but thought it might still be beneficial to share some of my thoughts.

Edited December 13, 2013 by Make Love Not War
style

[dm 9]

Isn't that ArmA 3's fog?

Its the other way around ;) (the fog was developed for VBS, then ported to A3)

[progamer 14]

Fair enough. No doubt VBS, like any other piece of software, has its faults. Didn't mean to suggest otherwise. And, yes, of course you're much more isolated with VBS as the non-pro community is tiny compared to even a game like Arma. That's a fair and valid point as well.

Nevertheless, the key difference is that one product appears to be pushing forward and innovating while the other feels stagnant on some very important fronts. Not that BIS hasn't made strides forward with A3, but since the Alpha release the development process from a feature standpoint has been awfully dry. I'm not even talking about seeing new, wonderful and crazy stuff from BIS either; I'm talking about the team simply finding the time to properly finish off introduced features such as grenade throwing or sea-based operations.

Also, don't want to come across like I don't appreciate that BIS and BSim are working from two totally separate pools in terms of financial support from clients. Nevertheless, BIS can't be suffering too badly considering they just threw 500k Euros at the community contest. If they are so hard pressed for resources, then I would have prefered they had spent the money on increasing their programmers' salaries and incentivizing new hires. Think that couse of action would have been much more useful to both players and the modding community in the long run. All this is complete speculation on my part, of course, so please take everything with a healthy dose of salt, but thought it might still be beneficial to share some of my thoughts.

I'd just like if we were given support so that modders could do these things in Arma 3.

If VBS becomes easier to purchase, the community size could increase greatly.

[scarecrow398 43]

If so, VBS has my undivided attention; they are this >< close to getting my money.

You and me both, I was thinking about getting it over the last week and now these videos have popped up, combined with the free upgrade to VBS3 if you buy before dec 31 this is getting really damn tempting, I think if i end up finding a decent sized public VBS group I might just be a little bit poorer this week :(

I'm not sure what the limitations of the simulator's personal edition are going to be

Also something I'm curious about, I've been told some stuff from the US factions has been dumbed down a little at their request but does anyone here know any major differences between the Personal Edition and the Contract/mil editions?

If VBS becomes easier to purchase, the community size could increase greatly.

By easier you mean less than $500 right? Then again, if their online store worked for the PE and accepted paypal/credit cards that would no doubt make it more tempting for people to jump over...

[froggyluv 2130]

You and me both, I was thinking about getting it over the last week and now these videos have popped up, combined with the free upgrade to VBS3 if you buy before dec 31 this is getting really damn tempting, I think if i end up finding a decent sized public VBS group I might just be a little bit poorer this week :(

Also something I'm curious about, I've been told some stuff from the US factions has been dumbed down a little at their request but does anyone here know any major differences between the Personal Edition and the Contract/mil editions?

By easier you mean less than $500 right? Then again, if their online store worked for the PE and accepted paypal/credit cards that would no doubt make it more tempting for people to jump over...

Easy cowboy, they haven't yet confirmed that VBS3 will even be available for PE though they've hinted that they are considering it. Also IIRC, the free upgrade is for the commercial license not PE users. And there is a difference between commercial and PE, many elements are specifically for certain clients such as snow for Swedish military and unknown if available for all. The awesome looking civilian module is also a plug-in, not something you get out of the box. Xaitment console is not accessible unless you pay 10,000 for their license. Again Im not knocking it, but just want you to be aware before you buy :)

[progamer 14]

Easy cowboy, they haven't yet confirmed that VBS3 will even be available for PE though they've hinted that they are considering it. Also IIRC, the free upgrade is for the commercial license not PE users. And there is a difference between commercial and PE, many elements are specifically for certain clients such as snow for Swedish military and unknown if available for all. The awesome looking civilian module is also a plug-in, not something you get out of the box. Xaitment console is not accessible unless you pay 10,000 for their license. Again Im not knocking it, but just want you to be aware before you buy :)

Things can change from VBS2 to VBS3 as well.

Nothing is impossible

:)

http://products.bisimulations.com/press-releases/tuesday-december-3-2013-0837/vbs3-iitsec-first-look

---------- Post added at 05:14 ---------- Previous post was at 03:46 ----------

We are still thinking about VBS3 Personal Edition (PE). Generally we don't see any negatives. It's cool how PE users help out our non-PE users on our forums - the PE users know their stuff! We are also considering alternative pricing models to make it more accessible (no promises) :)

It would be awesome to have VBS3 PE become more accessible with alternative pricing and easier to purchase. A very large community like Arma's could form and then more people would buy it because they could join other players online.

VBS being so similar to Arma allows Arma players to adjust easier and transfer their knowledge from Arma to stuff they do in VBS.

VBS also tends to fix the stuff players complain about in Arma games and adds features people request in Arma games. The wiki is much more informative (Arma's wiki just doesn't seem as detailed). Physx is fully implemented and modders could do much more amazing things ect...

And the "Nothing is impossible" quote is just awesome! :)

Edited December 14, 2013 by ProGamer

[scarecrow398 43]

Again Im not knocking it, but just want you to be aware before you buy :)

Hence why I came here to find out more :p

Buy VBS2 2.0 now and receive a free upgrade to VBS3 (only until December 31, 2013)

Government agencies that buy new VBS2 licenses will be eligible for a free upgrade of their licenses to VBS3 when it becomes available. In this way, users can access the current benefits of VBS2 2.0, as well as the enhanced training capabilities within the VBS3 roadmap.

I guess you're correct, I just assumed there was going to be a PE version. :S

The awesome looking civilian module is also a plug-in, not something you get out of the box. Xaitment console is not accessible unless you pay 10,000 for their license.

Which civilian module is that? the only one I can think of seeing is the crowd generator?

Also haven't heard of the Xaitment console :/

[papanowel 120]

Also something I'm curious about, I've been told some stuff from the US factions has been dumbed down a little at their request but does anyone here know any major differences between the Personal Edition and the Contract/mil editions?

At first, when the VBS 2.00 was released for PE user, we didn't get the new US Socom paratroopers and divers but finally they were include in the 2.15 2.12. We don't have everything in but there is still plenty to do for it.

By easier you mean less than $500 right? Then again, if their online store worked for the PE and accepted paypal/credit cards that would no doubt make it more tempting for people to jump over...

You can also do a money transfer from an account to an other (at least it was that for me).

Edited December 14, 2013 by Papanowel

[Laid3acK 74]

but finally they were include in the 2.15

2.12.106124 (35). :p

I don't know if we'll be updated with this 2.15.:confused:

[jsmuk 13]

2.12.106124 (35). :p

I don't know if we'll be updated with this 2.15.:confused:

I thought PE was updated to 2.15 but not another version. I need to pay more attention I guess.

Climate is the deal breaker? Try the fact that Florida is FLat... so very, very flat. And a swamp. Also, you want seasons but don't mind England? :P

Hey England has seasons, sometimes all of them on the same day.

[scarecrow398 43]

Hey England has seasons, sometimes all of them on the same day.

Someone should have told you rain, snow and overcast don't count as different seasons through the year.

[noubernou 77]

From Seattle, we have winter, sometimes a spring, 4 weeks of summer, and then a Fall, which is sometimes winter and sometimes summer.

[babylonjoke 22]

The graphic they showed actually it's far from what they have ingame. I think these are just "concepts" of what the engines can do. A small scene setted up ingame with the new lighting...

What actually makes me so angry is that also Arma 3, since uses RV4 as well, should be able to handle such graphic/ features . At least would be cool if they could give us modders a way to do that. I mean, real time reflection... argh!

Now we know that these things are possible in RV4 engine. How can we use them in Arma 3?

How can I have rivers in Arma 3? How can I have this awesome real time reflection? How do I change the lighting? How do I make underground systems?

I honestly don't care if they put these stuffs in the vanilla game as soon as they give mod makers the ability to do these stuffs. Stuffs that are actually requested from the community from many years...

I like the idea of the prize they now trowed in, it's very motivating for making good mods and attractive for new skilled modders ... but my motivation has been again totally sucked away watching this new VBS videos...

P.s.

I will laugh a lot when VBS will have realistic 3D scopes

Edited December 16, 2013 by Babylonjoke

[dm 9]

Arma 3, since uses RV4 as well, should be able to handle such graphic/ features...

...Now we know that these things are possible in RV4 engine. How can we use them in Arma 3?

Except that VBS3 is still on RV3 (i.e. Arma2: Operation Arrowhead) and not RV4:

For the record, VBS3 is not directly based on the Arma3 engine. We branched following Arma2... ...requirements continuously take VBS away from the Arma engine.

[babylonjoke 22]

Except that VBS3 is still on RV3 (i.e. Arma2: Operation Arrowhead) and not RV4:

That makes things even worse*.. lol...

Thanks for the info btw, I was pretty sure they did updated the engine as well...

Edited December 16, 2013 by Babylonjoke

[jsmuk 13]

That makes things even worse*.. lol...

Thanks for the info btw, I was pretty sure they did updated the engine as well...

They did, from RV2. The stuff shown as being in VBS2 2.0 was on a modified RV2 engine (as far as I know anyway). It is impressive what they have done, no matter what version of the RV engine it is. I honestly didn't think the RV engine could look like that.

[NZXSHADOWS 0]

Isnt it all about the shaders?

[chortles 263]

Now we know that these things are possible in RV4 engine. How can we use them in Arma 3?

Simple: try to con BI into actually doing a contracted work and back it with <insert national> Navy money. :lol: For example, if I recall, the "support for large-scale 3D models for recreating ships, etc." mentioned at that I/ITSEC First Look page is directly built on specific features/improvements that were contracted for years ago by the Royal Navy and Royal Australian Navy.

By the way; from War Play (2013) by Corey Mead: http://i.imgur.com/YQUq7oH.jpg (583 kB)

[OChristie 0]

VBS3 uses the RV3 engine with enhancements in certain areas. :) Its beautiful!

[PuFu 4591]

Isnt it all about the shaders?

yes, and lighting ;)

[maddogx 13]

yes, and lighting ;)

Which is also all about the shaders. ;)

[Laid3acK 74]

VBS3 uses the RV3 engine with enhancements in certain areas. :) Its beautiful!

When i see the pictures in the VBS3 Manuels, it's seems to be the RV2 enhanced of VBS2 2.x with a new UI.

Could you really confirm that VBS3 uses the RV3 engine, please ?