Fire Geometry Issue

[Kydoimos 916]

Hi all!

 

Have a near-functional fire geometry on my model, but there is a small section of it which is not detecting bullets:

 

 

It's odd, because part of the same section (the door) is detecting bullets. Also, when you fire at the door sideways (with the edge of the door facing you) it detects bullets perfectly. It's only from a certain angle.

 

Any suggestions would be welcomed! Thanks chaps!

[sequisha 13]

There isn't a great deal to work with given the image, but I'll take a stab at what your problem is. 
Fire geo, like all p3d Geometry lods...requires closed and simple geometry.  If it's just a door that should only emit one penetration sound, it should be a simple rectangular(closed) piece of geometry.
If the keypad area is supposed to have a different penetration sound then the geometry would look a bit more complicated (5 seperate boxes).

The first example, A, is super simple and recommended for testing initially.
The second example, B, covers if you plan on having more complex fire geo.

*IMPORTANT* You must always "Find Components" for new or heavily altered geometry in your collision LODS.  I recommend removing all (component)named selections and letting object builder create new ones.
Within Object Builder: Structure -> Topology -> Find Components.

Hope this helped, it should solve your issue.


P.s. I noticed the door is ajar in the problematic picture.  Be sure that your fire geometry(and all other geo LODS) have the proper named selections as well and are animating properly.  For instance,, referring to the image above, your hypothetical red/green/blue/orange components may not be sharing the "Door" named selection; or whatever you've called this animating part.

[Kydoimos 916]

Thank you so much, Sequisha - I bet you're right! Validating geometries can be a bit tricky for us newbies - I need to go through it very carefully! :) Thanks so much for the detailed response!

[Kydoimos 916]

I've used the 'Find Components' and even taken out the keypad from the model to see if I can isolate the problem. I reckon it is definitely the geometry validation which is the issue, but the door is just a very simple closed, convexed square object now. I've also got the named selections for Door_1 labelled. I'll keep trying - I'm sure I'll get there eventually :) Here's the addon file - might be helpful for other beginners as a (partially faulty) point of reference: https://www.dropbox.com/s/6a3s9qvw8t3o4yu/Gun_Cabinet.pbo?dl=0

[PuFu 4600]

this is weird. if you kept the geo i did for the cabinet you shouldn't really have this sort of issue

[Kydoimos 916]

@Pufu - hi mate! Yeah, just tried the model you sent me again - and I'm having the same problem as the updated model. Really bizarre - there's a segment of the door that you can shoot through (only when it's opened). On the model you sent, I'm just changing the component in the Memory LOD named 'Axi' to 'Axis'. The door then opens correctly, but with the aforementioned problem. Can't work it out! :P

[PuFu 4600]

the axi thing is surely part of my time to time dyslexia. weird indeed, Try redoing the door geo component (simple box) and let o2 redo the components (find components menu), see if that sorts it out

[Kydoimos 916]

@Pufu - will do! Thanks for the suggestion :D

 

EDIT: Tried re-doing GEO component and letting 02 find the components. Unfortunately, issue persists! Maybe it'd be worth adding another square, inside the cabinet door, to try and stop the bullets?

 

EDIT: Nope - that didn't really work out either!

[warlord554 2065]

closed, convex, and triangulated. each separate piece should be labeled as "components". 1, 2, 3, etc. I have some pretty complex fire geo lods working great. Remember the fire geo will override the regular geo if it's present. Check the wiki for more detailed info on geo lods. The biggest hurdle is making an object convex, while keeping closed geometry.

[Kydoimos 916]

@Warlord554 - thanks mate, I think I'm doing all that correctly - but I'll double check :)

[ProfTournesol 956]

Remember the fire geo will override the regular geo if it's present. Check the wiki for more detailed info on geo lods.

 

Well not exactly, the fire geo doesn't override the geo lod : if both are present, the fire geo lod will be used for fire geometry when the geo lod will be used only for collision. If the geo lod is the only one to be present, then it will be used also as fire geometry.

[Kydoimos 916]

Just started my object from scratch - and the fire geometry works! Whatever the problem was, it was to do with validating the geometry. Going to press on and take it slowly! Thanks everyone, for your patient support. If it wasn't for these forums and help, I would've given up a long, long time ago!

[warlord554 2065]

Well not exactly, the fire geo doesn't override the geo lod : if both are present, the fire geo lod will be used for fire geometry when the geo lod will be used only for collision. If the geo lod is the only one to be present, then it will be used also as fire geometry.

Yes Prof my bad man I should have been more specific haha. Thx :)

[Kydoimos 916]

Right - the problem's occurring again, but now I've isolated the problem - it's basically to do with the animation radius. At -110 radius, bullets are passing through a portion of the door. I can get a workaround by having the door open wider. Any ideas why the radius would be causing this? :)

[PuFu 4600]

i have a slight idea, it is regarding the way animations are handled by RV/OB, but i can't put my finger on it without confirmation, so i won't spit it out here.BTW, when you open the door above 90 degrees, does the 2 pieces of geo/fire lod collide by any chance?

[Kydoimos 916]

Hi Pufu - I think they do collide, yes. Seems to be working okay at -80 degrees on the animation - definitely appears to be the rotation amount that's changing the fire geometry.  

 

PS: Thanks for your advice on the shadow LOD - got some amazing looking shadows now! :D

[Kydoimos 916]

Also, not sure if this is relevant to the problem, but the bullet decals are not appearing. I've made sure my Fire Geometry is close to the resolution LOD, as I read that that might resolve the issue, but to no avail. At the moment, a small portion of the top right hand corner of the model's door is not stopping bullets (which is an improvement on half the door!). It's very odd, because the door is made up of a single, closed square. Can't quite understand why every other part of the door works but that small area? I'll post back if I figure it out! :)

 

I've uploaded an updated model here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/x8aac0kyuhfrhtp/Gun_Cabinet.p3d?dl=0

 

Everything works fine, except the exterior corners of the model's door do not detect bullets from certain angles, there are no bullet decals, and there's a tear down the inside rim of the door when you zoom in close to it in first-person. I've re-done the fire geometry five or six times now, and can't seem to fix it. My fire geometry has sharp edges, is closed, and I've tried it convexed and non-convexed. It is also a very similar size to the resolution mesh. The material I've assigned in the fire geometry is working perfectly too - except of course, in the top outer corners of the door, where no bullets are being detected.

[Kydoimos 916]

Hmm, okay - just discovered that the doors on BIS' cargo containers have a similar problem - looks like it might not be model specific.

[Kydoimos 916]

Started work on a new model and this issue has come back to haunt me. Whatever the problem is, it seems it's the same problem with the cargo container door in the picture below:

 

 

When I zoom in, parts of the model become invisible, and the fire geometry fails at certain angles.

[x3kj 1247]

when you stand too close to something you can get camera clipping

 

To detect firegeo issues easier , copy the fire geometry into the resolution LOD (and store the real resolution LOD in an "edit" LOD).

https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/LOD#Fire_Geometry

 

Avoid extremely thin fire geometry. This penetration system is not designed for stuff below ~ 5 mm and works most reliable above 10mm (ballpark figures). Use thicker firegeometry but with plate material with less simulated thickness

[Kydoimos 916]

 

To detect firegeo issues easier , copy the fire geometry into the resolution LOD (and store the real resolution LOD in an "edit" LOD).

https://community.bi...D#Fire_Geometry

 

Splendid idea! I'll try that, thanks matey! :D

[Kydoimos 916]

The strange thing is, all the fire geometry is working fine until the door opens - which made me think there must be an issue with the door selection (some of the faces aren't included in Door_1). Yet, they're all assigned correctly. Weirder still, the fire geometry only fails from certains angles (the normals are correct too). The part with the visual clipping, oddly enough, only occurs in the area towards the outer edge of the door, where the fire geometry is failing too.

 

The exact same problem can be found in-game, with the Cargo container doors :)

[ExileEichi 1]

Did you succeed with this? I have experienced the exact same problem. The player can run through parts of a model. At these spots, the fire geometry also does not recognize hits. A bullet just goes through.

 

Fire and Geometry LOD are just a box. Really, just one simple, single box :D The only difference here is, that I do not have an animation set.

 

I have noticed one extremely weird thing: The geometry / fire LOD seem to behave different based on object rotation. I cannot run/shoot through it when object rotation is 0°, but as soon as I use a different rotation via setDir, the problem occurs.

 

I have ensured/tested the following, without success:

 

• All components are named Component01, Component02, etc.
• All vertices have a proper mass set in the geometry LOD
• "Find non-closed" selects nothing -> everything is closed
• "Find non-convexities" selects nothing -> convex hull is okay
• There are no de-generated faces
• Normals are correct. No swapped faces.
• Tried sharpened and/or smoothed surface normals in each LOD one after another
• All LODs are triangulated
• Removing all LODs and using "Create Box" in Object Builder did not change anything
• Fire LOD has correct surface materials set

EDIT:

• There are no warnings in the RPT
• No problems in the binarization logs
• No warnings in-game

 

Any help is highly appreciated. I have wasted almost 13 hours on this now, close to giving up.

 

 

EDIT: I have now created the most simple model ever. Just a box created via object builder. Same result. Rage quit incoming :(

 

[Kydoimos 916]

Hi mate, though I haven't resolved my original issue, I could take a look at your p3d file if you like? Post a link on Dropbox or something and I'll give it a quick look :)

 

EDIT: Interestingly, the same problems exists (or at least, did exist) with the game's Cargo Container doors.  

[Housesparrow 8]

Maybe the geometry doesn't really rotate because of either a bug, or some pre existing condition that involves scaling, or some parenting issue in the hierarchy in the game world?

 

Maybe instead of the "real" door rotating, the door geometry simply ends up being scaled in one direction, basically reshaping the door instead of rotating it.

 

Presumably, there would be a way to test this crude idea, by trying to find hidden hit spots, that are outside of the visibly rotated door (front/rear/above/below).

 

The only reason I mentioned this is because I came to think of some weird behavior in my favorite 3D editor, in which an object would get scaled along some axis when trying to move or maybe rotate it (I don't remember the specifics anymore).