AI much tougher since update

[smacker909 3]

I can't even spot'em before getting sniped.. usually through grass.. even after turning down AI settings .. embarrisingly low :(

[Gunter Severloh 4062]

You create a mission in the editor, or is it a mission from the game or a downloaded mission your playing?

[smacker909 3]

Playing a mission I normally play , mission I made that is a random mission generator of sorts. It has no AI modifications and also using no mods. Maybe it's just me being very unlucky for the last 5 plays :)

[Gunter Severloh 4062]

Ok, an idea for you something I do with my own missions is change the AI skill.

Create an init.sqf script or add the code below to an existing one:

[] spawn 
{
while {true} do
	{
	sleep 10;

		{
		_x setSkill ["aimingspeed", 0.1];
		_x setSkill ["spotdistance", 0.2];
		_x setSkill ["aimingaccuracy", 0.2];
		_x setSkill ["aimingshake", 0.1];
		_x setSkill ["spottime", 0.1];
		_x setSkill ["spotdistance", 0.5];
		_x setSkill ["commanding", 0.2];
		_x setSkill ["general", 0.5];
		} 
	forEach allUnits;
	}
};

[Tyl3r99 41]

what difficulty settings you got them on? i found expert is fucking hard lol

[smacker909 3]

@tyl3r99I : never play on hard , regular.. lol.

@Gunter : I have used setSkill in the past, but not in this mission.. just use the in game settings with AI percission set to .3. Just noticing I get spotted lots faster than before the update. Maybe time to go back to using setskill :)

[Sterlingarcherz101 15]

@tyl3r99I : never play on hard , regular.. lol.

@Gunter : I have used setSkill in the past, but not in this mission.. just use the in game settings with AI percission set to .3. Just noticing I get spotted lots faster than before the update. Maybe time to go back to using setskill :)

Haha I was playing rc 1.48 on campaign testing out. And was telling myself it was the hangover. Was crawling up a hillside trying my best to stay low.But I had AI spotting and shooting me from all around I got recked everytime.

It's mission at first campaign section after guy walks on mine in forest and brit squad gets in contact.

[smacker909 3]

Okay, just added AI settings to my mission :) I have to dumb those buy down a bit

[oukej 2911]

There shouldn't be any significant change in the AIs abilities to spot you. Could you please give me an example situation where the AI before the update behaved differently than now after the update so we can check it out? Thanks a lot!

[smacker909 3]

Mostly they fire at me through grass and crest of hill, more and more directly than before.. maybe they are suppressing, but before, I think they would fire , more in my general direction in these cases, but now seems to be firing directly at me. Turning down AI accuracy doesn't seem to help as much, if any, as it did. If the AI is behaving correctly, and is better in other areas, and really not seeing me *through* dirt and grass.. then I will just need to adjust my tactics. I have to be much more careful approaching.

[calin_banc 19]

I think at some point it was stated that they see through grass, at least after they know your position.

[smacker909 3]

maybe i'll turn down terrain details in video setting and play in dirt ;)

[Coyle 10]

Agreed, the AI have drastically improved although i use mods, which , make them harder anyway

[calin_banc 19]

maybe i'll turn down terrain details in video setting and play in dirt ;)

There is also a mod on Steam that halves the grass length which helps you spot them easier while laying down in grass, but yeah, if you want to be at the same level as them, play without grass.

[Imperator[TFD] 444]

I think at some point it was stated that they see through grass, at least after they know your position.

That makes perfect logical sense to me. If i see someone and then that someone ducks down into the grass, where do you think I'm going to shoot?

The very first thing you should do after going prone in grass is use the Evade Left/Right key to roll a few times so that the AI slightly loses track of your lateral movement. It most likely won't help much depending on their height difference to you but hey every second counts right?

There is also a mod on Steam that halves the grass length which helps you spot them easier while laying down in grass, but yeah, if you want to be at the same level as them, play without grass.

Do me a favour, go lie down in the middle of a patch of long grass and then try to see far infront of you. Not going to happen very well is it?

The AI are affected to some degree by the grass but at the end of the day grass isn't going to stop bullets and the AI will just shoot where they last saw you.

[fn_Quiksilver 1636]

That makes perfect logical sense to me. If i see someone and then that someone ducks down into the grass, where do you think I'm going to shoot?

The very first thing you should do after going prone in grass is use the Evade Left/Right key to roll a few times so that the AI slightly loses track of your lateral movement. It most likely won't help much depending on their height difference to you but hey every second counts right?

Do me a favour, go lie down in the middle of a patch of long grass and then try to see far infront of you. Not going to happen very well is it?

The AI are affected to some degree by the grass but at the end of the day grass isn't going to stop bullets and the AI will just shoot where they last saw you.

agreed.

have observed a LOT of player vs AI combat.

I can't see through a bush, but if I see you run behind a bush, I'm going to shoot at the bush. When I do this, its logical. When the AI does this, its h4x aimbot.

If people are having issues with AI, reduce their aiming accuracy and spot time.

[calin_banc 19]

That makes perfect logical sense to me. If i see someone and then that someone ducks down into the grass, where do you think I'm going to shoot?

The very first thing you should do after going prone in grass is use the Evade Left/Right key to roll a few times so that the AI slightly loses track of your lateral movement. It most likely won't help much depending on their height difference to you but hey every second counts right?

Do me a favour, go lie down in the middle of a patch of long grass and then try to see far infront of you. Not going to happen very well is it?

The AI are affected to some degree by the grass but at the end of the day grass isn't going to stop bullets and the AI will just shoot where they last saw you.

You got it wrong, they see you through foliage much easier than they should (humanly speaking, not I'll be back speaking). Also while true, they should fire where you went prone, but if they are prone as well, they align the shots without seeing your position far too easily compared to the trouble you're having.

[corona2172 25]

I can confirm that I have also noticed the AI seems to have gone to some advanced marksmanship classes.... It almost makes moving under fire, even at distance, from a man with a standard rifle horribly difficult. I haven't noticed their ability to see me improve, but I definitely have noticed that they are FAR more accurate in far fewer shots now.

[DuckRustler 10]

Yep, unrealistically accurate.

[Imperator[TFD] 444]

I can confirm that I have also noticed the AI seems to have gone to some advanced marksmanship classes.... It almost makes moving under fire, even at distance, from a man with a standard rifle horribly difficult. I haven't noticed their ability to see me improve, but I definitely have noticed that they are FAR more accurate in far fewer shots now.

Moving under fire without suppressing fire is usually going to be fatal. Why would you even do this?

[pd3 25]

I actually came to talk about this, in addition to the AI simply having "replicant" tier reaction and spotting abilities now, they also seem to soak up more bullets or simply don't even react to getting hit at all.

I knew in a few situations I was close enough that there was no way I wasn't missing the AI and they were soaking up bullets like they were in fact something out of blade runner.

And then they'd simply fire on me a few shots and I'd be dead.

I'd like an explanation as to why this is.

I can also confirm that I've seen the AI moving and from what I could see, actually shooting before they could even see me.

I really can't stand that in a game like this, I don't play it for arena shooter twitching ridiculousness. The AI should be roughly as capable on average as a human being, if you want super insanely able AI, there should be an option for that. However the reaction times now are crazy, they can pick up the player by what seems to be very small details that I would imagine most players would miss or hesitated to draw on without knowing exactly what they're seeing.

There was one circumstance where presumably the AI could see as little of me as I could of them, which was literally the top of our heads, and he was just giving 'er with the Zafir as if he had a clear line of sight and not a fragment of a target.

That's not cool for this franchise, I don't want this game to become a haven for the Dark Souls drone mentality where they take obviously broken lacking aspects that toss the game out of balance and claim it's a feature.

By far though the most annoying part seems to be that some AI actually now seem to take a magazine to kill with certain weapons unless you hit them in the head, they are also very unlikely to go into pain/recoil frames after being shot on extremities as well. So they can just lock onto you with laser precision and gun you down while you're mag-dumping them.

Definitely not a fan.

[pd3 25]

You got it wrong, they see you through foliage much easier than they should (humanly speaking, not I'll be back speaking). Also while true, they should fire where you went prone, but if they are prone as well, they align the shots without seeing your position far too easily compared to the trouble you're having.

This has always been the case, I've actually proved it in a video with armed assault some time back.

If there's a perceived tiny gap that the human eye wouldn't identify as anything, the AI knows and will shoot.

Annoying as shit, it's gotten somewhat better over the years, there are some fools out there who claim it's the AI seeing you move to cover, and my video proved that it in fact was just me starting the mission spawning behind a bush, and them seeing because what is "blocked" for the AI is obviously less obscuring than for players.

Also the circumstances in which the AI has essentially started shooting at me before they can even see me, it was from inside of a building as they were moving toward the entrance. I was lucky enough to catch them "appearing" in the threshold of the doorway already firing, that's when I knew something was up.

Just that and as I said, even if the AI sees a very ambiguous fraction of the player model, literally like the tip of his boot poking around the corner from a considerable distance, they will seem to behave as if they saw the guy strut out into the open. Even at considerable ranges where the average person would likely not catch it.

It's much more pronounced now, I'm being taken by surprise a lot more than I was previously.

EDIT

I can also now confirm that on two separate occasions the AI moved around a corner at < 25m and initiated accurate fire the milisecond their weapon was clear of the obstacle in front of them. These two AI did not previously see me and seemed to be completely unaffected by changing the aimingspeed, or spottime variables. They knew or could determine I was there with uncanny speed, in the second instance, they had already hit and killed me before they had cleared actually moving around the corner of the building they came from behind.

They were not leaning using the building as cover, but actually strafing around it as was the case in both situations, the fire and target acquisition was instantaneous.

I have now also seen the AI shoot in the direction of the player from behind an obstacle after laying down whilst not actually facing the player, and then getting up while already shooting and having a perfect bead already drawn on the player.

That's cheesy as shit, that's like the equivalent of the AI having a 3rd person camera to figure out where the player is when they shouldn't even be able to see them and then just locking on and spamming the fire key as they switch positions.

The new changes have pretty much rendered MOUT, which was one of the most enjoyable aspects of A3, into a grim experience where you expect single AI to have the drop on you at all times. Not really cool with the whole Dark Souls rationalization loop here.

I like clever tactical AI, but having to render them functionally retarded just so they don't have these new bizarre "advantages" is essentially like breaking the game to make it enjoyable.

Is it possible to have clever AI without making them super-able?

 

[corona2172 25]

@Imperator_Pete: Sorry for the late reply, but these forums have not been letting me post anything since the update. I was just going to tell you that I realize moving under fire with or without suppression is hazardous. I want to assure you that this remains a problem whether I have a squad providing overwatch or if I am alone. One enemy rifleman at 400m can effectively snipe me on semi-automatic with a katiba the second I move between rocks. My squad is not as effective as the enemy AI. Also, I have noticed that the in the campaign and the showcase missions I am constantly losing now, not because I get killed, but because the enemy AI is destroying friendly forces... sometimes before I even get to the fight. It definitely feels like something is off. I can tell you that it is easier to move under fire from one enemy combatant at 400m, in real life, than it is in Arma 3 now. The analogy of moving from rock to rock at 400m is something I've actually been killed doing multiple times. Maybe everyone isn't experiencing this problem?

[oukej 2911]

The new changes

The problem here is we still don't know what changes :) In general from the Alpha stage the changes have aimed at decreasing the AI deadliness wherever it made sense.

We need more info how and when the AI has become more deadly. Comparable situations that would have had a clearly different results prior to patch 1.4x (which one, can you tell?)

[fn_Quiksilver 1636]

@Imperator_Pete: Sorry for the late reply, but these forums have not been letting me post anything since the update. I was just going to tell you that I realize moving under fire with or without suppression is hazardous. I want to assure you that this remains a problem whether I have a squad providing overwatch or if I am alone. One enemy rifleman at 400m can effectively snipe me on semi-automatic with a katiba the second I move between rocks. My squad is not as effective as the enemy AI. Also, I have noticed that the in the campaign and the showcase missions I am constantly losing now, not because I get killed, but because the enemy AI is destroying friendly forces... sometimes before I even get to the fight. It definitely feels like something is off. I can tell you that it is easier to move under fire from one enemy combatant at 400m, in real life, than it is in Arma 3 now. The analogy of moving from rock to rock at 400m is something I've actually been killed doing multiple times. Maybe everyone isn't experiencing this problem?

 

Can you please provide more info to review.

 

What scenario, how many players, how many AI, what are the AIs skill numbers?