World Politics General

[srbknight 925]

So you are telling me that the main mass Russian media is not controlled by the Russian Government?

For instance the ones that dominate the TV audiences are Channel One Russia, Russia 1, Russia 24, TNT, NTV, Zvezda, Russia 2, Russia Today, ProRussia.tv (all of them owned by Russian Gov.) :rolleyes:

Seems that all the Freedom of press index in the World, seem to indicate that in Russia there's no Freedom of press. But hey... maybe the World is russophobe...

https://rsf.org/index2014/data/carte2014_en.png (865 kB)

You answered yourself. Freedom of sexuality means that a person can be homosexual without any discrimination against him/her for that fact: be it in the middle of the street, in the internet, anywhere.

(Human Rights Watch) Russia: Anti-LGBT Law a Tool for Discrimination

Too much anti-Russian arguments !! :(

[mistyronin 1181]

Too much anti-Russian arguments !! :(

Define anti-Russian.

[srbknight 925]

Define anti-Russian.

Human Right's watch are always preoccupied with Russia but seems there is no something about Saudi Arabia and other countries with high level of people discrimination !

Edited June 28, 2015 by R0adki11
Video Link removed

[mistyronin 1181]

Human Right's watch are always preoccupied with Russia but seems there is no something about Saudi Arabia and other countries with high level of people discrimination !

Once more wrong. So no, they are no anti-Russian. :j:

(Humans Right Watch) Report Saudi Arabia 2015

Saudi Arabia continued in 2014 to try, convict, and imprison political dissidents and human rights activists solely on account of their peaceful activities. Systematic discrimination against women and religious minorities continued. Authorities failed to enact systematic measures to protect the rights of 9 million foreign workers. As in past years, authorities subjected hundreds of people to unfair trials and arbitrary detention. New anti-terrorism regulations that took effect in 2014 can be used to criminalize almost any form of peaceful criticism of the authorities as terrorism.

(Humans Right Watch) Saudi Arabia: Mass Expulsions of Migrant Workers

Saudi authorities have conducted a concerted campaign since 2013 to detain and deport hundreds of thousands of undocumented migrant workers, resulting in abuses against many of them, Human Rights Watch said in a report released today.

(Humans Right Watch) Saudi Arabia: 100 Executions Since January 1

[srbknight 925]

Once more wrong. So no, they are no anti-Russian. :j:

(Humans Right Watch) Report Saudi Arabia 2015

(Humans Right Watch) Saudi Arabia: Mass Expulsions of Migrant Workers

(Humans Right Watch) Saudi Arabia: 100 Executions Since January 1

Yes they are anti-Russian i can remember before 2 years there is no such similar video about Russia and now when the WEST-EAST relations are bad the tons of propaganda are occurs from Human Rights Watch !

[mistyronin 1181]

Yes they are anti-Russian

Again: how do you define anti-Russian; and don't tell me that they don't inform about other countries like Saudi Arabia, because you have been proven wrong.

[srbknight 925]

Again: how do you define anti-Russian; and don't tell me that they don't inform about other countries like Saudi Arabia, because you have been proven wrong.

ANTI RUSSIAN

PUTIN IS DICTATOR: Which is so wrong and tell that to 89% of people that support his politics and 64% that would vote for him again

RUSSIA HATE GAYS: Well that is something else that we can't accept because our culture and religion is not accepting Homosexuals and people are strongly against gays

RUSSIA IS THREAT FOR WORLD:Russia is threat because NATO feel like it's too close to Russian borders and expansion of NATO is threat for Russia not for Europe or NATO

CRIMEA INVASION: There is only protecting island from Possible bail navy from Sevastopol cause of Orange revolutions in Ukraine before that Russia has paying Ukraine a nice amount of $$$ for that part :)

[spooky lynx 73]

Strawman argument detected.

Why didn't you say something about fake judicial processes over opposition politics, about Nemtsov's killing, about attacks (backed by police) on election observers? About changes in constitution to back "main party's" interests?

Excuse me, what fake judical processes are you talking about? Navalny? Like it or not, accusations against him were proved. Attacks on observers? Dude, I've been observer for a number of times at regional elections (from independent candidates), so you will say me about attacks? The most disputable case I've seen is United Russia observers being drinking hard (and they were brought to taxi after the end of the poll with the help of police because they weren't able to move:D after huge amount of cognac and vodka.

Oh. They don't exist in your world, right? Anything that is not pro-Putin does not exist. Anyone who dares to say otherwise is a "western agent". And after all that paranoia you accuse people living in Europe of "Russophobic propaganda"? Nice try, yeah.

Pleas do not mix your black-white world picture of the world witn my thoughts, okay?

So you are telling me that the main mass Russian media is not controlled by the Russian Government?

For instance the ones that dominate the TV audiences are Channel One Russia, Russia 1, Russia 24, TNT, NTV, Zvezda, Russia 2, Russia Today, ProRussia.tv (all of them owned by Russian Gov.) :rolleyes:

Please ask your curators to send you updated manuals for information war. I'd help you: IRL Russia-2 (sports channel), TNT (marginal channel where only trash sitcoms, comedy shows and 'House-2' dumb reality show that is symbol of degradation and marginality), NTV (the channel that became in the center of huge scandal when it hired famous pro-UA Maidan activist as anchorman despite his ideology) do not have serious influence on the audience. On the other side there are other large media outlets such as RBK, Commersant, E1.ru (and affiliated web of city portals counting about 50 large sites owned by Hearst-Shulkov group), Yandex, Mail.ru group, InterMedia Group etc. BTW you forgot to add 5th channel and TV-centr channel.

Please everybody note: Kremlin's payed troll helps European members with information;)

Seems that all the Freedom of press index in the World, seem to indicate that in Russia there's no Freedom of press. But hey... maybe the World is russophobe...

Your second mistake: you mix the data provided by one organisation with the opinion of the whole world.

You answered yourself. Freedom of sexuality means that a person can be homosexual without any discrimination against him/her for that fact: be it in the middle of the street, in the internet, anywhere.

And what if such freedom disturbs other people, offend them and violates their freedom? Note that public sexuality showing, as you say, in the middle of the street, be it either straight or LGBT, aren't supported here. Deal with it.

[mistyronin 1181]

ANTI RUSSIAN

PUTIN IS DICTATOR: Which is so wrong and tell that to 89% of people that support his politics and 64% that would vote for him again

1. How can it be anti-Russian to call Putin a dictator? Putin is not Russia, remember?

2. During the Third Reich, Hitler has 90-100% of the people's support. And he won the elections. Same with a good amount of dictators.

3. Besides the elections in Russia have been considered rigged by international observers a lot of times:

(The Guardian, already in 2008) Russia election not free or fair, say observers

(Forbes) How Bad was the Fraud in Russia's Presidential Election?

(France 24) Election fraud in Russia caught on video: ballot-stuffing, erasable ink and more

RUSSIA HATE GAYS: Well that is something else that we can't accept because our culture and religion is not accepting Homosexuals and people are strongly against gays

1. No one said that Russia hates gays, but that the Russian Gov. promoted laws against homosexuality.

2. You said yourself that you are not Russian.

RUSSIA IS THREAT FOR WORLD:Russia is threat because NATO feel like it's too close to Russian borders and expansion of NATO is threat for Russia not for Europe or NATO

1. Then why Russian bombers fly over neutral countries like Finland?

2. Why the Kazakhstan Gov. considers that Russia could be a treat?

3. Why did Russia invaded Crimea then?

CRIMEA INVASION: There is only protecting island from Possible bail navy from Sevastopol cause of Orange revolutions in Ukraine before that Russia has paying Ukraine a nice amount of $$$ for that part :)

1. Crimea is a Peninsula, not an island.

2. Sevastopol was part of Crimea, which was part of Ukraine. So the Ukrainian Gov. could decide whatever they wanted on the matter.

- - -

Please ask your curators to send you updated manuals for information war. I'd help you: IRL Russia-2 (sports channel), TNT (marginal channel where only trash sitcoms, comedy shows and 'House-2' dumb reality show that is symbol of degradation and marginality), NTV (the channel that became in the center of huge scandal when it hired famous pro-UA Maidan activist as anchorman despite his ideology) do not have serious influence on the audience. On the other side there are other large media outlets such as RBK, Commersant, E1.ru (and affiliated web of city portals counting about 50 large sites owned by Hearst-Shulkov group), Yandex, Mail.ru group, InterMedia Group etc. BTW you forgot to add 5th channel and TV-centr channel.

I don't have any curator. Nor anything else you invent.

BTW what you say it's not what the public ratings show.

Your second mistake: you mix the data provided by one organisation with the opinion of the whole world.

One organization, Reporters Without borders that is supported by all the main journalist associations in the World, in fact it has journalist from almost every country... They are all biased I guess...

Reporters Without Borders Index

BTW there's also:

Freedom House Index

And what if such freedom disturbs other people, offend them and violates their freedom? Note that public sexuality showing, as you say, in the middle of the street, be it either straight or LGBT, aren't supported here. Deal with it.

Ok. So you confirm that there's no Freedom of Sexuality in Russia. Fine. It's what I already thought.

Edited June 28, 2015 by MistyRonin

[John Kozak 14]

Excuse me, what fake judical processes are you talking about? Navalny? Like it or not, accusations against him were proved. Attacks on observers? Dude, I've been observer for a number of times at regional elections (from independent candidates), so you will say me about attacks? The most disputable case I've seen is United Russia observers being drinking hard (and they were brought to taxi after the end of the poll with the help of police because they weren't able to move:D after huge amount of cognac and vodka.

No, it was not - and the appellation was rejected unlawfully.

As for attacks, one case: http://www.svoboda.org/content/article/27083723.html

But sure as hell you would say it's all lies, it was all not like this, etc.

Pleas do not mix your black-white world picture of the world witn my thoughts, okay?

A man accusing whole world of trying to destabilize Russia says I have black/white vision?

A man putting words in others' mouths is angry when he thinks same is done to him?

You just redefined irony.

Edited June 28, 2015 by DarkWanderer

[srbknight 925]

1. No one said that Russia hates gays, but that the Russian Gov. promoted laws against homosexuality.

2. You said yourself that you are not Russian.

Is there any protests after that law 90% of people are strongly against Homosexual rights or Homosexual marriage You can't force your people to love something that they hate SERBS are same as Russians one nation one blood one brotherhood there is no difference between Serbs and Russian!

1. Then why Russian bombers fly over neutral countries like Finland?

2. Why the Kazakhstan Gov. considers that Russia could be a treat?

3. Why did Russia invaded Crimea then?

I think Russia has some border with Finland and that could be the problem lol why they fly ??!!! :D

That's funny Kazakhstan is part of CSTO and 30% of Kazakhstan people are Russians maybe that was spoken by west but idk?!?!

Russia invade Crimea caused by Ukraine changing from Neutral to pro_Western country and it could reject the agreement with Russia about Black Sea Fleet also Crimea was historic part of Russia till 1960's when Khrushchov give it to Ukraine the Crimea for Russians is like Kosovo for Serbians but in Crimea we have 67% of Russians and in Kosovo we have 98% of Albanians ethnic ! Crimea was have legal referendum which passed and Russia annexed it! What could happened Black Sea and Sevastopol could have new navy US or NATO navy and Russia see that as threat and do something what nobody was thinking it would do :D

1. Crimea is a Peninsula, not an island.

2. Sevastopol was part of Crimea, which was part of Ukraine. So the Ukrainian Gov. could decide whatever they wanted on the matter.

Ehh However !!!! :p

Yes but Crimea is historical part of Russia as i said 1964 Nikita Khruschev gave it to Ukraine 2014 during orange revolution in Ukraine Russia feels threat from possible bailing them from the sea and the problems got fixed

Kosovo was historical for Serbs almost whole Serbian history is set in Kosovo 654 Churches only 157 are saved by KFOR Albanians are destroy them during 2004 but it has declared an independence from Serbia which was supported by the WEST and then who ask us ??? Serbs ???

[Tonci87 163]

OMG FPDR You are delusional!

[St. Jimmy 272]

Hopefully we will see a new page in democarcy some day. Democracy needs to come closer to the people and people need to have a chance to voice their opinion without beign afraid that the elected people do completly opposite what they say or are just sitting their ass off in parliament to get paid. I want to voice my opinion through somebody's mouth and he actually fights for the opinions and compromises and not through some parties that are limiting person's opinions. There are great people in almost all of the parties in parliaments but mostly it doesn't matter because they're under a party.

I'm afraid that EU is taking democracy away from the people even more. You know the elected people are even physically sitting far away from most of the EU countries.

[mistyronin 1181]

Is there any protests after that law 90% of people are strongly against Homosexual rights or Homosexual marriage You can't force your people to love something that they hate SERBS are same as Russians one nation one blood one brotherhood there is no difference between Serbs and Russian!

:j: Holy cow, so there's no difference between Serbs and Russian people, they share the same blood and nation? I'm quite puzzled...

I mean it seems to be a lot of love from all the Serbian people I know towards Russia. But why do then all the Russians I know despise and don't trust Serbs? :confused:

I think Russia has some border with Finland and that could be the problem lol why they fly ??!!! :D

So Russia's bombers have the right to fly over all of their neighbors airspace (like Sweden or Finland, which feel that like a deep threat and aggression). I guess that following the same logic, the USAF can fly over Russia airspace.

Russia invade Crimea caused by Ukraine changing from Neutral to pro_Western country and it could reject the agreement with Russia about Black Sea Fleet

So according to you any country can invade their neighbors because they agree to trade with another. Is that?

Crimea was have legal referendum which passed and Russia annexed it! What could happened Black Sea and Sevastopol could have new navy US or NATO navy and Russia see that as threat and do something what nobody was thinking it would do :D

The Russian military invasion occurred before the referendum according to Putin:

(RT) ‘We did what we had to do’: Putin opens up on Crimea reunification plan

The referendum was not legal according to practically all the countries in the World but few Russian allies:

(UN Website) Backing Ukraine’s territorial integrity, UN Assembly declares Crimea referendum invalid

[vilas 473]

Hopefully we will see a new page in democarcy some day. Democracy needs to come closer to the people and people need to have a chance to voice their opinion without beign afraid that the elected people do completly opposite what they say or are just sitting their ass off in parliament to get paid. I want to voice my opinion through somebody's mouth and he actually fights for the opinions and compromises and not through some parties that are limiting person's opinions. There are great people in almost all of the parties in parliaments but mostly it doesn't matter because they're under a party.

I'm afraid that EU is taking democracy away from the people even more. You know the elected people are even physically sitting far away from most of the EU countries.

10000% right

yes, it is problem

problem is breaking before voting promisses and lack of refferendums

Switzerland is for me master of democracy

politician say A before election, after elected he says "we cannot agree to A"

before election politician say "we shall never allow B" , after election first step is to "enforce B",

once they go to Brussels they suddenly "changing their minds"

answer is simple - they will promise ANYTHING to get 23 000 Euro monthly job for 4 years

because 23 000* 12 *4 = 1 100 000 euro !!!!

you put it in bank and you can live from percent whole life (in Eastern Europe for sure)

23 000 Euros every f* month for usual EU member of parliament is the case they promise us "national interest and soverignity" than they vote to raise our taxes to pay for things we do not accept but which are important for some banks

Is there any protests after that law 90% of people are strongly against Homosexual rights or Homosexual marriage You can't force your people to love something that they hate SERBS are same as Russians one nation one blood one brotherhood there is no difference between Serbs and Russian!

here too,

the problem is other

between danying LGTB to adopt kids and beating them on public there is difference

i am also against allowing them to adopt kids and 90% of Poles too,

but i am also against Sharia which tells to kill them

Edited June 28, 2015 by vilas

[Rydygier 1302]

At some point maybe I'll try too.

So:

Define democracy - what's obligatory components of the system making it democratic (to be sure, we know, about what exactly we're talking).

When I'm saying "democracy" I mean the system of government, in which governed (all mature) population may actively and effectively participate. Pretty wide in fact. One particular dilemma is most interesting to me as for core rules:

What's the purpose? I would answer - a prosperous, healthy society of free, happy, dignified people. As much, as possible.

If so, question is: to what degree society as a whole should directly participate in governing own country itself? Most of the people has no required competence/talents and most of them tends to see only narrow, own (family) interest, so perfect direct democracy IMO would be disastrous paralyze of the contradictory particular co(ntra)-decision makers, beeing in fact bunch of "one-man-states". Rule of the mob could possibly be wise and leading in any good direction? Resultant outcome can be good for them? Only in countries, where majority, the mob itself is wise. Show me such country. Competent (talented/wise enough) representatives are necessary after all perhaps?

But what's the role of such representatives? Should they be just executors of the will of those, who elected them? Same argument, as above seems to prove, it would be no better, as for perfect direct democracy, it will be the same disaster, just executed by other people's hands - non-competent narrow sighted mob (a chaotic hum of contradictory decisions) will manipulate the country by hands of few figureheads.

So is the optimal situation in fact present in most of the democratic countries, where citizens aren't in fact own country sovereign en masse, they only en masse choose sovereigns amongst themselves to rule them, where rule means wise guidance with the good of whole country in mind, seeing and listening the people, explaining own decisions, but not beeing obedient executor of the own voters particular will? And direct involvement of the people should cover via referendums only matters not requiring high comptenece and wide, wise view? Who should decide, which matters are such? Or after all we should tend to maximize direct involvement of the people in the whole governing process (eg online referendums to vote all bills, laws etc.)?

There are traps, whichever path we choose.

Is democracy the best system ever and forever and why?

Don't know anything better. Also don't know, what future will bring.

Is democracy the best system for all countries on the planet and why?

Frankly - don't know. I can imagine society not compatibile completely with such sytem by its culture/mentality. But IMHO it is the past. The key is, democracy to work need society matured enough to actually be democratic - enforced democracy, as absurdal it sounds, will fail otherwise. The first free, democratic act of the society has to be a free choice to be democratic.

Is democracy in uniform shape the best system for all countries (so every country should adapt its culture, mentality and traditions to certain shape of democracy) or should democracy be adapted to the local specifics (culture, mentality, traditions). Which shape it is if so and why?

Certainly, the shape of democracy has to be adapted. And if democracy is freely chosen by matured toward it society, in natural way will be adapted to that society specificity.

Is democracy in modern flavors good enough/optimal or could/should be improved? How and what are the flaws of democracy if so?

Democracy is flawed, as anything involving human factor, because human is flawed. I hope, it may be improved, can't tell, how exactly though. Perhaps first step should be developing reliable simulation tools allowing to experiment safely.

Is there any possible decent alternative for democracy?

If so - I'm not awared about it. In the past monarchy could be nice, now modern democracy is nice - optimal system seem dependent on cultural/civilization level of societies. I wonder, what future brings and I do expect some kind of changes (I don't think modern democracy is final step of perfection. Well, I hope so).

Edited June 28, 2015 by Rydygier

[vilas 473]

Define democracy - what's obligatory components of the system making it democratic (to be sure, we know, about what exactly we're talking).

voting for your future, majority decides about what is line of country towards taxes, law, economy, etc,.

Is democracy the best system ever and forever and why?

democracy is crap cause 2 idiots with IQ 80 without education have 2 votes and 1 profesor of economy has 1 vote when people vote for budget

BUT NOONE INVENTED ANYTHING BETTER

Is democracy the best system for all countries on the planet and why?

probably not, because in very religious medival societies 51% can decide to behead 49%

rights of minority should be kept too

Is democracy in modern flavors good enough/optimal or could/should be improved? How and what are the flaws of democracy if so?

refferendums, refferendums and once again refferendums but with one barrier - religious fanatics cannot vote to kill because of belief,

Is there any possible decent alternative for democracy?

noone invented anything better

Is democracy in modern flavors good enough/optimal or could/should be improved? How and what are the flaws of democracy if so?

how to improve democracy ?

a law that makes politicians OBEY promisses

once promise is broken - politician pays compensation from his own money , looses job, or even faces jail,

politicians are our employees, we are bosses cause we pay taxes

situations where politician wins election "to cut taxes" and next month he raise taxes IS UNACCEPTABLE !!!

situation in which politician say about defending soverignity and next day push button to limit it is unacceptable,

all parties from left wing to of course right wings before election to EU or Polish parliament were saying similar things , that they are for this , that , that for Poland, but in EU only right wing keeps voting the way they were chosen and one far-left party too

all mainstream parties from left side act against what they promissed and as result their support fallen from 40% + 13% to circa dozen percent + 3%, people who now are ruling/ruining my country, in all polls have circa dozen percent, some polls even say they have now 9% other polls say they have 20%,

post commies were saying that in EU parliament they gonna vote for keeping us away from paying for banks "crisis" and they will vote for "sustaining national traditions union of countries as EU not mixed tradition" too

Edited June 28, 2015 by vilas

[Tonci87 163]

Yeah, Europe needs more democracy. While for example I don´t agree with everything the current greek government does, their decision to allow their citizens to decide in a referendum is amazing. Worthy of a country that is considered to be the birthplace of democracy.

[Rydygier 1302]

their decision to allow their citizens to decide in a referendum is amazing. Worthy of a country that is considered to be the birthplace of democracy.

Yes, but I'm wondering about their intentions. They said plainly, "no" in such referendum (which they also plainly recommend) would give them stronger position in the negotiations. Meanwhile, as I read, Greeks preffer "yes" so far... :)

Edited June 28, 2015 by Rydygier

[mistyronin 1181]

Yeah, Europe needs more democracy. While for example I don´t agree with everything the current greek government does, their decision to allow their citizens to decide in a referendum is amazing. Worthy of a country that is considered to be the birthplace of democracy.

The most interesting thing about that referendum is:

Why didn't the Greek Gov. proposed it before?

It could have been done well inside the terms... Why was it proposed a week after the agreed terms?

[Rydygier 1302]

democracy is crap cause 2 idiots with IQ 80 without education have 2 votes and 1 profesor of economy has 1 vote when people vote for budget

1. Should the people without competence voting at all in matters requiring it?

2. How about weighting the votes? Doable anyhow?

[srbknight 925]

I mean it seems to be a lot of love from all the Serbian people I know towards Russia. But why do then all the Russians I know despise and don't trust Serbs?

I guess you know the other part of Russians that are for west i guess the people that i am rounded are totally pleased with Serbia

So Russia's bombers have the right to fly over all of their neighbors airspace (like Sweden or Finland, which feel that like a deep threat and aggression). I guess that following the same logic, the USAF can fly over Russia airspace.

lol Dude flying near and flying over airspace is not same thing lol !

So according to you any country can invade their neighbors because they agree to trade with another. Is that?

No because of the way how legal president was moved from the country

The Russian military invasion occurred before the referendum according to Putin

Yes it was and for sure supported by people

he referendum was not legal according to practically all the countries in the World but few Russian allies

like always old good wild-west :D

[mistyronin 1181]

lol Dude flying near and flying over airspace is not same thing lol !

No one talked about flying near the airspace. At all times I used the words "over their airspace". Read better.

1. Then why Russian bombers fly over neutral countries like Finland?

I think Russia has some border with Finland and that could be the problem lol why they fly ??!!! :D

- - -

No because of the way how legal president was moved from the country

Ok, so you are against the Russian invasion of Crimea. Nice.

Yes it was and for sure supported by people

What people? And how do you know that it was supported? If there was no legal vote?

like always old good wild-west :D

So more than 150 countries in the World conform the West? :j:

[vilas 473]

1. Should the people without competence voting at all in matters requiring it?

2. How about weighting the votes? Doable anyhow?

thats why i said - noone invented anything better

we must swallow such pill and live with it, but we can crticize it, but there is no cure for it yet,

maybe in future someone would invent basic tests of basic knowledge -test before voting, maybe,but it is probably not possible yet

Edited June 28, 2015 by vilas

[mistyronin 1181]

thats why i said - noone invented anything better

we must swallow such pill and live with it, but we can crticize it

The best solution to that, is to try to educate the people the best you can. So a lot of votes will be emitted by educated people.

But obviously a lot of people just don't care enough about politics.