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New terrain reveal - Tanoa

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If you look at this screenshot here: http://i.imgur.com/kIU1Wam.jpg

I think it's possible the Expansion will be naval focused as this trawler appears to be slowly tracking forward.

This could mean the naval physics issues are being addressed like infantry movement on moving ships.

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If you look at this screenshot here: http://i.imgur.com/kIU1Wam.jpg

I think it's possible the Expansion will be naval focused as this trawler appears to be slowly tracking forward.

This could mean the naval physics issues are being addressed like infantry movement on moving ships.

Certainly looks like the trawler is pushing water.

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Certainly looks like the trawler is pushing water.

Using this script :

_vel = velocity trawler;
_dir = direction trawler;
_speed = 2.5;

hint 'ok';
while {alive trawler} do
{trawler setVelocity [
(_vel select 0) + (sin _dir * _speed), 
(_vel select 2) + (cos _dir * _speed), 
(_vel select 1)
];};

The trawler move doesn't look like the one on the picture : http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2015/24/1434279530-arma3-2015-06-14-12-56-39-69.png (2406 kB)

But it may be caused by the different water (i.e. reflection)

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Heh, i was actually thinking a mini Visby Class Corvette. It looks perfect in terms of Modern, i mean, "2035 Future" look. Probably one of the most attractive designs i've seen in a ship. (yeah, i do like ships) But that's mainly pertaining to some kinds of attack boats. I do however support other things, like say a boat like the MK V SOC, with a flat back that we can actually use to put crates and supplies on and transport them by sea. It's already possible, we just need a boat that can be walked onto, and the ability to move crates as infantry. =D
Depends on what you mean by "mini Visby" -- the Visby's length (similar to the UAE Navy's Baynunah-class) is kind of the usual threshold for where you can pair dedicated missiles with a "flat back" for a helicopter, as opposed to P61 (flat back at the expense of armament within ~55 m overall length) or fast attack craft/missile boats (vice versa) among shorter boats, including the Skjold-class (see the Wiki for why they were classified as corvettes, though they're much more in line with FACs/missile boats).

TL;DR: There's plenty of variety in real-world "stealth looking" designs that could be simulated as a "scaled up Speedboat" (there's that phrase again :rolleyes:)* with missiles in Arma while being short enough to avoid the old ~50-60 meter limit (on geo/roadway LOD cohesion)... and if it doesn't have to look "stealth", then the UAE went with a gunboat/infantry platoon transport, a missile boat, and a mortar boat, all from a common design of approximately Mk V SOC length!

* I harp on the "scaled up Speedboat" phrase because it's the first time we had something a vanilla "bow deck gun turret", even if it's only in 40 mm grenades, as opposed to an unprotected pintle mount with 12.7 mm ball rounds or 40 mm grenades; even VBS2's Boghammar only had the aft DShKM simulated and not the visibly present bow multiple-rocket launcher.

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Using this script :

_vel = velocity trawler;
_dir = direction trawler;
_speed = 2.5;

hint 'ok';
while {alive trawler} do
{trawler setVelocity [
(_vel select 0) + (sin _dir * _speed), 
(_vel select 2) + (cos _dir * _speed), 
(_vel select 1)
];};

The trawler move doesn't look like the one on the picture : http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2015/24/1434279530-arma3-2015-06-14-12-56-39-69.png (2406 kB)

But it may be caused by the different water (i.e. reflection)

I think you've just proved the trawler is moving or is configured to move with new engine features.

1. The buoyancy of the trawler is at a different level relative to the ocean in your picture.

2. The wake or wave is curved up and down along the side of the trawler indicating it's pushing water past and around.

3. The front clearly has splash water running up the front of the bow.

I think #1 is critical as I see no reason to why the internal A3 version would have the trawler sitting in such position compared to public other then naval focus. :)

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For now, the trawler just goes forward and moves verticaly (sin or cos-like), and splash each time it touch water. There is no wave along its side. I really hope to see naval improvment, however the pictues may have been edited.

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i don't think though that civilian behavior needs to be complex at all. the problem in arma 2 was that it felt mostly broken, slow reacting and just weird in its outcomes (going exactly where it's dangerous or just going prone in the middle of the road and freezing).

what i'd love to see is a super simple AI only for the purpose of ambient civs. almost like a zombie script. something that can be applied via a module or something to keep the capability of armed civs using normal AI.

like simply running away scared, including hands over head anim and sounds, from gunfire, explosions etc. and hiding behind cover or in a house. have them use random phrases when you get close or even have them stop and put their hands up when you aim at them like in GTA would be great. just simple and effective. not based on the normal AI at all. and based on close proximity. it's just for ambience anyways.

It shouldn't be done half assed though, Arma 2 and OA civs just weren't convincing enough for me even in game standards, the best part was the vehicle variety, seeing vehicles driving around helped in the immersion but in general their behavior was lacking a few routines, It will be great if BI could ever come up with a system to populate their terrains with civilians in a believable and more meaningful way.
*cough* I'd hate to say "VBS has it", but a third-party product does quick-yet-customizable placement as seen at 0:23:

's a close-up of "crowd" placement done in the Real Time Editor (RTE), the
version is its own Editor Object, and if you want to be even more specific for
scenarios...

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...

however the pictues may have been edited.

I don't think it would be a good idea to photoshop things into pictures that say "In-game" :shrug:

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I have removed my post as I think I think the blog post was a mistake... I don't want to spoil it anymore. Shall we remove any links before the media gets hold of it and spoils the E3 show?

There was no point removing it. The genie is out of the bottle and the media got hold of it the same day.

Having said that, the new terrain looks marvelous and looking forward to an increased range of naval assets for moving between the islands and including in missions. How do you refuel a boat?

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*cough* I'd hate to say "VBS has it", but a third-party product does quick-yet-customizable placement as seen at 0:23:

's a close-up of "crowd" placement done in the Real Time Editor (RTE), the
version is its own Editor Object, and if you want to be even more specific for
scenarios...

I sometimes get the feeling Arma is just a downgraded VBS. Then again, these modules come from a professional third party company so it's most likely far beyond of what the average modder can achieve. Still, looking awesome, we so need stuff like this for A3.

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*cough* I'd hate to say "VBS has it", but a third-party product does quick-yet-customizable placement as seen at 0:23:

's a close-up of "crowd" placement done in the Real Time Editor (RTE), the
version is its own Editor Object, and if you want to be even more specific for
scenarios...

Oh look ! another VBS video. ;)

Don't forget, when a civilian picks up a weapon they're no longer civilians, certainly in our game. They become a faction, or part thereof.

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while its not really sad seeing civilian men and women being shot, I woudnt like to see dead kids in the game.

unless they can make children and babies 'un killable'.

I've seen this rationale pop up for not including women and children before and it really doesn't make sense to me.

I understand and respect people being sensitive to certain issues, but it's no reason to exclude it for everyone. If you want to avoid seeing women and children being killed, don't play any user created missions that include having them in harms way. In the editor either don't spawn down women and children or give them the variable "this allowdamage false".

As for me, I'd prefer the game to allow a true full sandbox approach to depicting warfare, and while you could rationalize it in a number of ways, it seems a bit immersion breaking (and creativity limiting) that an entire city is only populated by guys of identical build wearing shorts, sandals and fedoras. Women and children in warfare is a very real thing, not just as civilian bystanders and refugees but also as active participants. The fact that you and many other people have a sensitivity to seeing women and children in danger is one of the very reasons terrorists will use female and child suicide bombers, because they know a soldier might hesitate to shoot a child more than they would to shoot a "military aged" male.

------------------------------------

Bringing it back around to the discussion of the map:

I'm really liking the look of some of the things planned to come with this map. It looks like we'll get a lot of new assets to play with as map and mission makers, ranging from verdant jungle overgrowth to what looks like several brand new urban buildings. My concern though, is whether these assets will be available regardless of DLC status (just like objects from prior DLCs are available to mission makers regardles of DLC). It would be a shame if only people who bought the DLC could play on islands made with models from the DLC.

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*cough* I'd hate to say "VBS has it", but a third-party product does quick-yet-customizable placement

VBS has to be the Godwin of the Arma series. I'd like to ask anyone who ever did a 'VBS has' post, how many features from VBS have ever been implemented in Arma?

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A walk-able or moving trawler would be a nice step forward for anti-pirate missions. So would be an oil platform.

Tho we will see what they are going to say on Tuesday.

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I've seen this rationale pop up for not including women and children before and it really doesn't make sense to me.

I understand and respect people being sensitive to certain issues, but it's no reason to exclude it for everyone. If you want to avoid seeing women and children being killed, don't play any user created missions that include having them in harms way. In the editor either don't spawn down women and children or give them the variable "this allowdamage false".

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*cough* I'd hate to say "VBS has it", but a third-party product does quick-yet-customizable placement as seen at 0:23:

's a close-up of "crowd" placement done in the Real Time Editor (RTE), the
version is its own Editor Object, and if you want to be even more specific for
scenarios...

AWESOME is ideal to destroy the last FPS in MP;)

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*cough* I'd hate to say "VBS has it", but a third-party product does quick-yet-customizable placement as seen at 0:23:

's a close-up of "crowd" placement done in the Real Time Editor (RTE), the
version is its own Editor Object, and if you want to be even more specific for
scenarios...
I sometimes get the feeling Arma is just a downgraded VBS. Then again, these modules come from a professional third party company so it's most likely far beyond of what the average modder can achieve. Still, looking awesome, we so need stuff like this for A3.

Have you ever tried VBS? Depends on what your looking for but it didn't feel like an upgrade to me. Lets see, one cost me $30 and the other like 20 times that but it actually felt inferior to Arma in terms of actual gameplay. The fighting AI is not as advanced in VBS, it didn't have many of the new Arma upgrades like FFV, PiP, ragdoll, adjustable stances, the new inventory system etc... Now granted this was for VBS 2 as I havent even bothered to upgrade to VBS3 cause I lost my key and it's $150 for the replacement.

Now, if I thought was VBS was actually 10 times better than Arma Id buy that replacement today but the truth is Arma is the better gaming experience. I Was actually lured to buy VBS because at that time it featured Xaitment, a 3rd party 'advanced AI pathfinding' plug-in similar to what we see in these videos. In reality, you didn't have access to this plug-in unless you coughed up at least $10,000 to Xaitment themselves, I know, I contacted their CEO personally. Funny thing was Xaitment was slightly baked in, but was actually WORSE than Arma 3's AI pathfinding -please read that again.

Point is, VBS does have a few awesome things about it but many of the plug ins are only for high paying military customers who want it for their simulators while other plug-ins just arent that good at all.

That said, I totally want that ^^^ for Arma 3 expansion!

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I have removed my post as I think I think the blog post was a mistake... I don't want to spoil it anymore. Shall we remove any links before the media gets hold of it and spoils the E3 show?

Haha spoils it. Has been picked up by a few online media. Making some hype before e3.not a bad thing at all, fallout 4 done it. You spoiled nothing. actually may bring more people over to arma3 that otherwise might not have been aware bis were heading.

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Civilians are undoubtedly an absolutely game-making part of Arma. Arma 3 just didn't cut it. 5 civilian vehicles including only 2 cars that were very luxurious. I'd like to see vans, older vehicles, more pickup variants, more boats, planes, etc. As well as female civilians and civilian interaction. Adding that would make the game worth $20 more for me :)

One can say the exact same thing about the military side too.

1 mortar for each faction using slightly different textures...

1 Static mg for all 3 factions with slightly different textures...

etc

Content in general is lacking severely in Arma 3 and given a choice for vastly more military content or civilian content I would prefer the military vehicles, boats, guns and artillery over a jetski and a prop plane.

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Have you ever tried VBS? Depends on what your looking for but it didn't feel like an upgrade to me. Lets see, one cost me $30 and the other like 20 times that but it actually felt inferior to Arma in terms of actual gameplay. The fighting AI is not as advanced in VBS, it didn't have many of the new Arma upgrades like FFV, PiP, ragdoll, adjustable stances, the new inventory system etc... Now granted this was for VBS 2 as I havent even bothered to upgrade to VBS3 cause I lost my key and it's $150 for the replacement.

Now, if I thought was VBS was actually 10 times better than Arma Id buy that replacement today but the truth is Arma is the better gaming experience. I Was actually lured to buy VBS because at that time it featured Xaitment, a 3rd party 'advanced AI pathfinding' plug-in similar to what we see in these videos. In reality, you didn't have access to this plug-in unless you coughed up at least $10,000 to Xaitment themselves, I know, I contacted their CEO personally. Funny thing was Xaitment was slightly baked in, but was actually WORSE than Arma 3's AI pathfinding -please read that again.

Point is, VBS does have a few awesome things about it but many of the plug ins are only for high paying military customers who want it for their simulators while other plug-ins just arent that good at all.

That said, I totally want that ^^^ for Arma 3 expansion!

No, I've never actually tried VBS. Also never really watched videos or did any research about it. I was just judging by these "VBS has it" posts. But as you said yourself, we're talking about military contract work here with only a few well paying customers with highly specialised needs. As a mass product without monetised third party content, Arma 3 obviously focuses on its core elements rather than implementing things like super detailed civie simulations. I don't know if the devs of VBS and the Arma devs interact with each other (since both companies are somewhat related, even if not identical) and share ideas, knowledge or code.

Anyway, I think most people can agree that there is a lack of civilian content in Arma 3 compared to Arma 2. There's little variety and the civilian assets are rarely used, even in official content like the East Wind campaign. What bugs me the most is that most civie uniforms only work on Altis or in a similarly hot area (like the Pacific...). But I'm a bit biased as I'm working on a campaign set in a snowy scenario. It's hard to create a believable civilian population with the little assets available in vanilla content. No complaint, just the wish for a few more universal civie assets (and functionality). I'd welcome civilian agents populating urban areas with smaller performance cost. In most cases I don't need a soldier AI in an ambient civilian. Essential functionality needed is walking/standing/sitting around and running away if shots are fired.

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with this enviroment, i'll wait knifes and machete (or bolo the filipino version)

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i don't think though that civilian behavior needs to be complex at all. the problem in arma 2 was that it felt mostly broken, slow reacting and just weird in its outcomes (going exactly where it's dangerous or just going prone in the middle of the road and freezing).

what i'd love to see is a super simple AI only for the purpose of ambient civs. almost like a zombie script. something that can be applied via a module or something to keep the capability of armed civs using normal AI.

like simply running away scared, including hands over head anim and sounds, from gunfire, explosions etc. and hiding behind cover or in a house. have them use random phrases when you get close or even have them stop and put their hands up when you aim at them like in GTA would be great. just simple and effective. not based on the normal AI at all. and based on close proximity. it's just for ambience anyways.

I'd actually take it a step farther and state this is now critical for the series. Not just Civ's -but all AI. The need for them to simply be able to disengage and run with appropriate animations being a plus. Still playing thru the official campaign and in the last mission, Attention Deficit, the job is too create as much havoc as possivble to reroute enemy forces to the area. Great mission, lots of ways to go about wreaking havoc, that is unless you decide to grab an enemy Hunter (or whatever there called) and simply drive camp to camp and run everyone over. And when I say everyone i mean:

Biggest immersion killer was the AI simply lacking the abililty to realise a threat they cant really counter and just stand there gun raised, changing orientations as i Barrel over them all -one after the next after the next ....Just straight line running would be so much better. Sure, maybe they can't fight so let them run for their lives. Hell one camp was chalk full of AT guys and none of them fired a shot either -was like I was too close for them to compute anything -this has to change.

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