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pete10

This game is about realism, right? Human movement still the biggest immersion killer.

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Hi,

I know great strides have been made in improving animations of human figures.

But to my mind Arma's animations are still incredible robotic looking compared to other newer games.

Is there a greater immersion killer than seeing a character spin on one spot while kneeling or standing in one spot, like they are attached to a turntable?

Any chance we might see more realistic human movement implemented at some point?

Thanks.

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Depends how much would you have liked to pay for ArmA 3?

If pay double, they could have hired more devs who could have worked on things like this.

These games with realistic human movement, how big are the maps, and can I do the same stuff in them that I can do in A3? If not, they those games are chit, why did they not do what older games like A3 can do? Real immersion killer when i walk for 3 minutes and get to the edge of the world.

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I don't play 3ed person, never got the attraction for looking at my avatar's back-sides.

..., just sayin'..., not that i have anything against that....

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There's a certain game that just entered early access (or so I heard), I believe it'll eventually trump Arma in terms of animation, and it's made by two guys!

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Hi,

I know great strides have been made in improving animations of human figures.

But to my mind Arma's animations are still incredible robotic looking compared to other newer games.

Is there a greater immersion killer than seeing a character spin on one spot while kneeling or standing in one spot, like they are attached to a turntable?

Any chance we might see more realistic human movement implemented at some point?

Thanks.

i agree, especially looking at the quality of animation and movement in mnayother games now. I play 1st person nearly all the time and find the clunkiness of the movements a challenge sometimes. Be a big core improvement to see. along with imporved mid range textures, decoupling simulation from frame rate, deferrered rendering, etc. so many things.

Arma 3 is the game I play the most by far, which i guess is why i'd really like to see it evolve more and more. The devs have the heart as far as i can tell, but real world, logitistcs, business objectives, limited time on earth, etc all impact the perfect potential. Still it would be nice.

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Yep. I know the one you mean. Their animations are cool but any real gameplay seems a long way off.

I was led to believe bis studios owned a motion capture studio?

---------- Post added at 03:04 ---------- Previous post was at 03:03 ----------

I don't play 3ed person, never got the attraction for looking at my avatar's back-sides.

..., just sayin'..., not that i have anything against that....

But you're looking at other people all around you right? Targets etc?

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But you're looking at other people all around you right? Targets etc?

Haven't seen a targets spinning in pvp, but if i do, i'll be sure to shoot him.

A3 movement is a vast improvement over a2: Stance up/down; left/right, and now weapons resting.

I also like the look of combat pace & run/sprint.

I'm not seeing what you're seeing. Why would someone be spinning like a top anyway?

And since you are comparing to other games, what other games?

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Check here:

Notice how the character pivots then gets up and turns when kneeling.

In Arma you turn like a top on the spot.

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arma movements are all motion captured so that is improvement from a2 to current arma.

There are probably games that done animation of character better.Crysis, or upcoming

star citizen fps module comes to mind.

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Well that BF4 video is actually a nice example of how Arma3 is NOT far behind other games. Besides that pivot example, all the other 20 examples are motions that Arma does just as well or better. And the vid even had one jumping animation which looks cool but is terribly unrealistic with all that gear.

Conclusion, yeah, the current pivoting is a remnant of an older generation of games and it would be nice see improved, but on the whole Arma3 has many cool and realistic motion captured animations.

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there's couple glimpses of motion captured shoots

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Depends how much would you have liked to pay for ArmA 3?

If pay double, they could have hired more devs who could have worked on things like this.

These games with realistic human movement, how big are the maps, and can I do the same stuff in them that I can do in A3? If not, they those games are chit, why did they not do what older games like A3 can do? Real immersion killer when i walk for 3 minutes and get to the edge of the world.

Why does every suggestion get countered with this? It's stupid and adds nothing to the discussion. Just because ARMA3 does some things some other games don't doesn't mean there aren't valuable things in other games that could be done in ARMA3.

The size of the world has nothing to do with whether the animations can be improved.

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Why does every suggestion get countered with this? It's stupid and adds nothing to the discussion. Just because ARMA3 does some things some other games don't doesn't mean there aren't valuable things in other games that could be done in ARMA3.

The size of the world has nothing to do with whether the animations can be improved.

Thats because EVERYTHING can be improved in EVERY game. Suggesting that this game is supposed to be about realism and then implying it fails in this area because of an already improved animation system is pretty bullyshotty, sorry.

It's like me suggesting, this game is supposed to be about realism, why the fuck don't those dogs act more like real fuckin dogs! Kills immersion. And those fish!? A real suggestion would be more akin to , "Much of the other areas of the game are par or better, how about pointing resources in future titles towards more innovative animation systems like Euphoria or Bullet?"

Just because ARMA3 does some things some other games don't doesn't mean there aren't valuable things in other games that could be done in ARMA3.

Are you serious? You haven't read the other 1,000,000,000,000,000 threads with titles like "Why cant we punch?!" and "Have you guys seen this Cry Engine demo?" or "Tank Rivet Unrequieted"?

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arma movements are all motion captured so that is improvement from a2 to current arma.

Mocap has been used since OFP.

What people seem to be talking about are transition animations. An intermediate sequence between states. Instead of coming to a halt the character might slow up first. Then link into the stand state. Or play an animation to indicate actual turning. I'm sure there's already a facility to do that via config.

I doubt it's something BI haven't considered. Perhaps it was too much extra work. Transitions would be needed between every state. Or it could have taken the responsiveness/immediacy out of movement.

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-mistake nvm-

Edited by Slatts

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Depends how much would you have liked to pay for ArmA 3?

If pay double, they could have hired more devs who could have worked on things like this.

These games with realistic human movement, how big are the maps, and can I do the same stuff in them that I can do in A3? If not, they those games are chit, why did they not do what older games like A3 can do? Real immersion killer when i walk for 3 minutes and get to the edge of the world.

err what?

a lot of the described issues are down to simple config problems. there's still several animations you can turn in that you shouldn't. for example when healing. the best part about that example is the weapon on the ground turning with you....drives me nuts to see it still in the game.

there's so many messed up transitions and half baked/broken IK stuff too. are you still forced to reload your rocket launcher, when you pick up a rocket? (haven't played in a while).

adjust stances are missing turn animations same as prone, which stands in the way of realistic turn speeds or turning simply looking less like in a game from 10 years ago.

your theory that it's tied to map/game size is quite ridiculous especially considering that the animation system and its problems have existed since the very first armas/ofp. that's 14 years now.

it's just another case of arma being superficially "updated" on each iteration instead of really fixing old broken systems (much like AI, more efficient rendering and pretty much everything else).

what arma 3 does a lot better then older armas is the animations themselves and less rigid transitions which leads to slidy feet but more smooth responsive controls. the IK stuff that was added is not even worth mentioning. hands turn with the steering wheel FINALLY but door gunners still sit still while the gun magically moves? ugh

Edited by Bad Benson

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Check here:

Notice how the character pivots then gets up and turns when kneeling.

In Arma you turn like a top on the spot.

Sigh screw that publisher for not allowing mod tools. All that potential gone to waste.

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Sometimes in this series, you just have to turn a blind eye. Happens in every game from time to time, fill in the blanks with your imagination. The guy in the video above, got shot after having a large lunch, stuff like that.. ;)

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Only three games I know of that make sure animations make sense in terms of realism. The Division, GTA:V, and Squad. In the division, you can't just whip your character around. Or zig zag like most people so in Arma at a mad rate. In GTA... That's self explanatory. Anyone who played it knows. In Squad, in full sprint, you can't suddenly change direction. If you look one way while sprinting, your body gradually follows, which is more realistic, you can go left to right like a Ping pong ball.

I actually like that this was brought up, I think there needs to be an Animation overhaul. Some people can jack their settings to stupid amounts of sensitivity and spin faster than a literal spinning bullet. Also, animations don't look as fluent in multiplayer as they do in singleplayer. The transitions for other players are watered down to you. What should be done is a restriction to max sensitivity to prevent crazy snap like change of direction and aiming. Then they should make animations for all characters in multiplayer look better. In other words, animations look as they do when you do them, just not watered down like it is now.

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Mocap has been used since OFP.

What people seem to be talking about are transition animations. An intermediate sequence between states. Instead of coming to a halt the character might slow up first. Then link into the stand state. Or play an animation to indicate actual turning. I'm sure there's already a facility to do that via config.

I doubt it's something BI haven't considered. Perhaps it was too much extra work. Transitions would be needed between every state. Or it could have taken the responsiveness/immediacy out of movement.

Can you be so kind and mention where did you learn that?

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Only three games I know of that make sure animations make sense in terms of realism. The Division, GTA:V, and Squad. In the division, you can't just whip your character around. Or zig zag like most people so in Arma at a mad rate. In GTA... That's self explanatory. Anyone who played it knows. In Squad, in full sprint, you can't suddenly change direction. If you look one way while sprinting, your body gradually follows, which is more realistic, you can go left to right like a Ping pong ball.

I actually like that this was brought up, I think there needs to be an Animation overhaul. Some people can jack their settings to stupid amounts of sensitivity and spin faster than a literal spinning bullet. Also, animations don't look as fluent in multiplayer as they do in singleplayer. The transitions for other players are watered down to you. What should be done is a restriction to max sensitivity to prevent crazy snap like change of direction and aiming. Then they should make animations for all characters in multiplayer look better. In other words, animations look as they do when you do them, just not watered down like it is now.

I'm pretty sure we're not talking about realistic movement (despite the wording of the OP). I think it's a mistake to tie the idea of realistic animations too much to movement mechanics. You can have unrealistic movement that still looks good and believable with good animations.

Limiting mouse sensitivity is a terrible idea. The great advantage of the mouse is that it grants exceptional control over the camera. The other side of that coin is that when you take away that control it feels awful. Even GTA5 has an unlimited turn rate while aiming.

Can you be so kind and mention where did you learn that?

That OFP had motion captured animations? I'm pretty sure it was hyped at the time that OFP was released.

e: This site credits Bohumil Trnka for "Motion Capture Performance." This article talks about the devs building a motion capture studio to record the movements of an ex-army instructor. "...dedicated motion capture and animation studio..." There are a bunch of articles.

Edited by roshnak

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I'm pretty sure we're not talking about realistic movement (despite the wording of the OP). I think it's a mistake to tie the idea of realistic animations too much to movement mechanics. You can have unrealistic movement that still looks good and believable with good animations.

amen! :pray:

that's why the OP was talking about immersion being killed. "realism" can easily be achieved by proper movement speeds and lack of things like bunny hopping. as far as i can tell he was talking about visual glitchiness and mostly turn speeds.

i think the only way to limit turn speed or make turning look more convincing is something similar to what was shown in that bf4 video. arma already has this half implemented with the aiming deadzone.

this could be great and even better than the bf4 thing since it would not just be visual but could limit free turning to the aiming zone and when you hit the edge it slows down and speed gets dictated by a turning animation. and when you stop turing it should sync lower and upper body again. that way you could not turn 360 fast without atleast waiting for you legs to catch up.

when prone however, i think it should be straight limited by using an actual turning animation exactly how it's done in other games. it's not rocket science and it doesn't require a new army of programmers being recruited.

it simply needs the lead allowing the person already assigned to those areas to work on it and then that person actually doing it. new programmers will only need to be briefed about the engine's crazy quirks and general workings.

and even then two people working on the same area does not necessarily mean an improvement. even the opposite sometimes.

Edited by Bad Benson

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