Operation Trebuchet - Total conversion mod for Arma 3

[Op3r8r 10]

Does have access to front and back, Just need to look on the Inside, Not outside,

Can clearly see Thorne and Majestic Behind Palmer holding her chair

That was more than likely done for cinematic purposes, there is still no door leading to the cargo compartment.

There's supporting evidence, right here.

No way for the copilot/pilot to stand up and move around. No way for anyone to get in either. That was 343 contradicting itself for cinematic purposes.

[theronnett 15]

No way for the copilot/pilot to stand up and move around. No way for anyone to get in either. That was 343 contradicting itself for cinematic purposes.

Look behind the Spartan IVs before they spawn, Clearly a door leading to the Pelican Pilot stations

[Op3r8r 10]

Look behind the Spartan IVs before they spawn, Clearly a door leading to the Pelican Pilot stations

Alright, you got me there. Either way, it's still illogical. Pilot/Co-pilot would have to get out through the cockpit hatches in order to get to the back. It still doesn't make sense compared to the original design.

Edited May 10, 2015 by Op3r8r

[theronnett 15]

Alright, you got me there. Either way, it's still illogical. Pilot/Co-pilot would have to get out through the cockpit doors in order to get to the back. It still doesn't make sense compared to the original design.

It's more in Lue of the the Hind and the Apache, it's purpose is to get Men deeper into enemy Lines then the Regular Pelicans. The fire support of the new pelican is ridiculous compared to the Old ones, you never see it for the one level In the campaign. But if you do glitches to fly on Spartan Ops, You can see the amazing firepower that it holds. The Older ones had been used as Gunships before but if reading the books or playing the games and watching the Animes. The armor just couldn't hold out to the heavy bombardment. So the UNSC designed a Pelican that was Gunship 1st and Transport second over Transport 1st, Gunship second. So the cockpit was designed to give the pilots a better field of view, Plus there is enough space in the cockpit that in Zero Gee environments, they can float back to the rear. Kinda like the Gundum series.

One of the many Pelican gliches for spartan ops where it truly shows off the OP fire power it carries

Edited May 10, 2015 by Theronnett

[Op3r8r 10]

It's more in Lue of the the Hind and the Apache, it's purpose is to get Men deeper into enemy Lines then the Regular Pelicans. The fire support of the new pelican is ridiculous compared to the Old ones, you never see it for the one level In the campaign. But if you do glitches to fly on Spartan Ops, You can see the amazing firepower that it holds. The Older ones had been used as Gunships before but if reading the books or playing the games and watching the Animes. The armor just couldn't hold out to the heavy bombardment. So the UNSC designed a Pelican that was Gunship 1st and Transport second over Transport 1st, Gunship second.

One of the many Pelican gliches for spartan ops

I'm more or less saying that it's not as realistic as the original Pelican.

The Gatling guns would be horribly inaccurate, the turrets at the rear would be extremely worthless, and would stop it from entering/leaving atmosphere. The original design was much, much more believable. This goes for almost every Bungie design vs 343's.

Also, there's no actual Spartan Laser shown on the D79. No exposed barrel, nothing. Makes me question if it was intended to be there and wasn't modeled and then the function wasn't removed due to it not being player controlled.

[theronnett 15]

I'm more or less saying that it's not as realistic as the original Pelican.

The Gatling guns would be horribly inaccurate, the turrets at the rear would be extremely worthless, and would stop it from entering/leaving atmosphere. The original design was much, much more believable. This goes for almost every Bungie design vs 343's.

Also, there's no actual Spartan Laser shown on the D79. No exposed barrel, nothing. Makes me question if it was intended to be there and wasn't modeled and then the function wasn't removed due to it not being player controlled.

It was designed for Spartan IV in mind truthfully, which make zero gee fighting possible with those turrets. but they are flack guns, meant really meant to cover troops as they exfil and infil to the location. Remember, this is when the Spartan program was in the hundreds. You have the 300 Spartan 3's from Gamma company and a few extra hundred Spartans that came from ODSTs, army, Airforce, you name it. And the pelican isn't mainstay, Mainly deployed with the Infinity and spartan teams across UNSC space, many of the rest of the UNSC still uses the regular pelicans, as seen in Halo: Spartan Assault + Strike, and the Halo Escalation comics, where they been using assets of all the Halo games together in the same volumes.

[Op3r8r 10]

It was designed for Spartans in mind truthfully, which make zero gee fighting possible with those turrets. but they are flack guns, meant really meant to cover troops as they exfil and infil to the location. Remember, this is when the Spartan program was in the hundreds. You have the 300 Spartan 3's from Gamma company and a few extra hundred Spartans that came from ODSTs, army, Airforce, you name it. And the pelican isn't mainstay, Mainly deployed with the Infinity and spartan teams across UNSC space, many of the rest of the UNSC still uses the regular pelicans, as seen in Halo: Spartan Assault + Strike, and the Halo Escalation comics, where they been using assets of all the Halo games together in the same volumes.

I just feel that the original design was 100% more believable.

Yes, the current design would make total sense if it was an in-atmosphere only aircraft.

But since it is capable of leaving atmosphere and traversing space, the original design still makes more sense for what it is.

The rocket pods of the original were legitimate, the turret on the nose made sense, and the gun in the rear was effective. This is true to real military aircraft.

As a veteran you should be able to acknowledge the value of a crew being able to tend to an injured pilot in a transport aircraft, such as the MH-60, or UH-1, or CH47, or Mi-8. Not only that, but communication would be far more efficient, etc, just like in real life. The pilots would also be less exposed in an evacuation situation. 343 has a lot of illogical, unrealistic, more sci-fi like designs.

[theronnett 15]

I just feel that the original design was 100% more believable.

Yes, the current design would make total sense if it was an in-atmosphere only aircraft.

But since it is capable of leaving atmosphere and traversing space, the original design still makes more sense for what it is.

The rocket pods of the original were legitimate, the turret on the nose made sense, and the gun in the rear was effective. This is true to real military aircraft.

As a veteran you should be able to acknowledge the value of a crew being able to tend to an injured pilot in a transport aircraft, such as the MH-60, or UH-1, or CH47, or Mi-8. Not only that, but communication would be far more efficient, etc, just like in real life. The pilots would also be less exposed in an evacuation situation. 343 has a lot of illogical, unrealistic, more sci-fi like designs.

Ah, but you never mentioned the Mi-24 Hind gunship/attack helicopter, which it is designed for, which is used to transport to great effect in Afghanistan when the Russians invaded. Also, trust me, the Pilots will Never leave their cockpits to help out the crew in back, they are to busy flying. The only crew who would ever treat the wounded is the crew chief. Also unlike the Original pelican, you forget that the new design actually allows for a real ejection system. meaning if the pelican gets shot down, pull level, the window pop off and ejection seat launch, something the other pelican NEVER had.

Edited May 10, 2015 by Theronnett

[Op3r8r 10]

Ah, but you never mentioned the Mi-24 Hind gunship/attack helicopter, which it is designed for, which is used to transport to great effect in Afghanistan when the Russians invaded. Also, trust me, the Pilots will Never leave their cockpits to help out the crew in back, they are to busy flying. The only crew who would ever treat the wounded is the crew chief. Also unlike the Original pelican, you forget that the new design actually allows for a real ejection system. meaning if the pelican jets shot down, pull level, ejection the window pop off and ejection seat launch, something the other pelican NEVER had.

Yes, but the Mi-24 is built and operated using a totally different logic from the Pelican.

Soviet doctrine was far different from the UNSC's, and the UNSC obviously takes queues from the US Armed Forces.

The Mi-24's secondary role is transport, it is not used in that role as a primary. Normally, the cargo bay is only used by SF.

The Pelicans primary role, gunship or not, is to transport infantry and vehicles. Hind can't transport vehicles.

Ejection seat is cool, but I meant an injured pilot. If your copilot gets shot in the stomach, you normally don't eject and leave your passengers to fall to their death....

[theronnett 15]

Yes, but the Mi-24 is built and operated using a totally different logic from the Pelican.

Soviet doctrine was far different from the UNSC's, and the UNSC obviously takes queues from the US Armed Forces.

The Mi-24's secondary role is transport, it is not used in that role as a primary. Normally, the cargo bay is only used by SF.

The Pelicans primary role, gunship or not, is to transport infantry and vehicles. Hind can't transport vehicles.

Ejection seat is cool, but I meant an injured pilot. If your copilot gets shot in the stomach, you normally don't eject and leave your passengers to fall to their death....

True, but as you saw, the co-pilot seat that Palmer was in actually had enough space that she could get pulled out, yeah, I agree the Pilot might be screwed, But the CO-Pilot can easily get swapped out, also, remember Halo 1st strike? The Cockpit was completely destroyed carrying the Spartans, so the Spartans initiated a emergency auto-pilot from the inside the crew bay

[Op3r8r 10]

True, but as you saw, the co-pilot seat that Palmer was in actually had enough space that she could get pulled out, yeah, I agree the Pilot might be screwed, But the CO-Pilot can easily get swapped out, also, remember Halo 1st strike? The Cockpit was completely destroyed carrying the Spartans, so the Spartans initiated a emergency auto-pilot from the inside the crew bay

I just feel like Halo: Reach should be the primary reference for all of the equipment in this game, with books/comics coming in second, Halo Wars too since it's considered canon (ignoring the gameplay elements needed for the game to work, like Spartan shields).

I would love to see the original Marine uniform from Halo: CE being implemented, since the Pillar of Autumn was an outdated vessel, we could actually argue that the equipment employed by the crew was old as well, or of a different variation.

Maybe redesigned a bit, but the original appearance is still very cool.

I still wish to see the Marines/Army eye piece show up as a replacement for the current NVG. Really kills immersion atm.

[SpaceNavy 16]

You know. You say the community is split by 343 lore and bungie lore. But the thing is. WE'RE does the lore change. The Halo 1-Reach pelican exist. The halo 4 Pelican exsist at the same time. The weapons. The BR55 is still around along with the BR85. Insurrection. Still there. EVERYTHING is still there. So what is the problem. You all know the main writers for the original halo games quit Bungie and Joined 343I you think they would have done that is 343 was really ruining halo lore

But concerns possibly. From my perspective. It really seemed like he was demanding more then concerned. If you see it differently, then it's a Obi-Wan matter of different point of views. But it really just read like a post on the halo waypoint forums if you guys are on there often. You see it

My favorite part was the Forward Unto Dawn suddenly changing designs while floating through space.

You know, how it changed from this: http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130912001345/halo/images/d/d5/H3_UNSC_FUD_HigherSide.png

To this: http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20131214203835/halo/images/9/9b/H4-Concept-Charon-Frigate.jpg

With no explanation. 343i is incompetent.

[Op3r8r 10]

My favorite part was the Forward Unto Dawn suddenly changing designs while floating through space.

You know, how it changed from this: http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130912001345/halo/images/d/d5/H3_UNSC_FUD_HigherSide.png

To this: http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20131214203835/halo/images/9/9b/H4-Concept-Charon-Frigate.jpg

With no explanation. 343i is incompetent.

SpaceNavy, you are bae. You still never accepted my friend request on Steam </3.

Yeah, 343 design changes make no sense and conflict with actual canon too much.

[theronnett 15]

I just feel like Halo: Reach should be the primary reference for all of the equipment in this game, with books/comics coming in second, Halo Wars too since it's considered canon (ignoring the gameplay elements needed for the game to work, like Spartan shields).

I would love to see the original Marine uniform from Halo: CE being implemented, since the Pillar of Autumn was an outdated vessel, we could actually argue that the equipment employed by the crew was old as well, or of a different variation.

Maybe redesigned a bit, but the original appearance is still very cool.

I still wish to see the Marines/Army eye piece show up as a replacement for the current NVG. Really kills immersion atm.

Ah, but you didn't realized, I did PM you, the Mod takes place during the Insurrection. Meaning the Time periods of 2450-2525 years. So any equipment that was around during those years are what is going to be in lol. Truthfully the Armor from Halo Wars. (Which was used for halo 2 anniversary too) would match the era more, but the Reach armor is cool.

Also here https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/community/blog-posts/canon-fodder-clarity-grace

Q: In games with an anniversary edition (CEA and H2A), should we take new graphics as canon over the older ones, one example being the Gravemind's massive overhaul.

BaconShelf

A: In most instances, the visuals depicted in an “Anniversary†edition should be taken as the definitive representations. The Gravemind as depicted in Halo 2: Anniversary is one such instance.

So the Reach armor for the marines is cannon, Also till said otherwise, the MA5B looking like the C, but they said they will add the Original B and have the C at the same time

Also the Pillar of Autumn was also retrofitted to top of the line for Operation: Red Flag, so well that it created the Autumn class ship. Also it was stocked for a High tech equipment. A new experimental Slipspace drive, and even experimental Gravity generators. The Pillar of Autumn was one of the most advanced starships in the UNSC fleet when the Battle of Reach happened

[theronnett 15]

My favorite part was the Forward Unto Dawn suddenly changing designs while floating through space.

You know, how it changed from this: http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130912001345/halo/images/d/d5/H3_UNSC_FUD_HigherSide.png

To this: http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20131214203835/halo/images/9/9b/H4-Concept-Charon-Frigate.jpg

With no explanation. 343i is incompetent.

Stated here, the H4 Forward Unto Dawn Appearance is not the canon, it is still the H3 verson

https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/community/blog-posts/canon-fodder-have-s-moa

What is the canonical design of the Charon-class Frigate? The one featured in Halo 3, or Halo 4?

- Onyx81

Halo 3 shows the canonical Charon-class, while Halo 4 introduced us to the Strident-class of UNSC frigates.

Also mentioned in a article that they used the strident for the level for the size of the Charon was to small for gameplay and would have been impossible and boring for the amount of back tracking, for they actually tried and it lead to real boring gameplay.

[Op3r8r 10]

Ah, but you didn't realized, I did PM you, the Mod takes place during the Insurrection. Meaning the Time periods of 2450-2525 years. So any equipment that was around during those years are what is going to be in lol. Truthfully the Armor from Halo Wars. (Which was used for halo 2 anniversary too) would match the era more, but the Reach armor is cool.

Also here https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/community/blog-posts/canon-fodder-clarity-grace

Q: In games with an anniversary edition (CEA and H2A), should we take new graphics as canon over the older ones, one example being the Gravemind's massive overhaul.

BaconShelf

A: In most instances, the visuals depicted in an “Anniversary†edition should be taken as the definitive representations. The Gravemind as depicted in Halo 2: Anniversary is one such instance.

So the Reach armor for the marines is cannon, Also till said otherwise, the MA5B looking like the C, but they said they will add the Original B and have the C at the same time

Also the Pillar of Autumn was also retrofitted to top of the line for Operation: Red Flag, so well that it created the Autumn class ship. Also it was stocked for a High tech equipment. A new experimental Slipspace drive, and even experimental Gravity generators. The Pillar of Autumn was one of the most advanced starships in the UNSC fleet when the Battle of Reach happened

I understand that it takes place during the Insurrection periods, after all, Op Trebuchet was the final assault on the Erridanus Insurrection. The final blow.

I think the MA5C should be left out. That was the Covenant war, not the Insurrectionist period.

MA37 was shown being used by both Army and Marines, however I feel like, ignoring 343's Anniversary BS, the events on Reach lead the Marines to outfit their troops with whatever they could find, since it was a planet the MA37 may have been more commonplace than the MA5B, which would explain why the MA5B wasn't present at all, in the theater the main characters were involved in.

[theronnett 15]

I understand that it takes place during the Insurrection periods, after all, Op Trebuchet was the final assault on the Erridanus Insurrection. The final blow.

I think the MA5C should be left out. That was the Covenant war, not the Insurrectionist period.

MA37 was shown being used by both Army and Marines, however I feel like, ignoring 343's Anniversary BS, the events on Reach lead the Marines to outfit their troops with whatever they could find, since it was a planet the MA37 may have been more commonplace than the MA5B, which would explain why the MA5B wasn't present at all, in the theater the main characters were involved in.

Well the MA5D was around during 2526, But not standard Issue, it would not be uncommon that the MA5C would be around way before that doing field testing with ODST teams, that, considering the flaws that the MA5B did with Magazine springs and the firing pin, causing the major problems with Range and Accuracy. Remember, the 1st Issue of the M4 Carbine happened towards the end of the Vietnam War to SF units. But it never became common place till the late 80's early 90's and never became standard issue till the Global War on Terror

[theronnett 15]

So i'm all for the MA5C being in, set for ODST teams or Units based from the Core systems and sent to the front, for it was stated that the UNSC kept all the top gear for the Core systems. leaving the horrible gear for the Out colonies incase the defected. So The Unit's station out in the Outer colonies should be equipped with MA5Bs and Even MA37s if they really are down on their luck unless they were army

[Op3r8r 10]

Well the MA5D was around during 2526, But not standard Issue, it would not be uncommon that the MA5C would be around way before that doing field testing with ODST teams, that, considering the flaws that the MA5B did with Magazine springs and the firing pin, causing the major problems with Range and Accuracy. Remember, the 1st Issue of the M4 Carbine happened towards the end of the Vietnam War to SF units. But it never became common place till the late 80's early 90's and never became standard issue till the Global War on Terror

It wasn't an M4 during the Vietnam war. So, that's a fallacy. They had the CAR 15 and XM Series, and the La France M16K. M4 didn't actually exist until early 90's, and CAR 15 were still more common by mid 90's.

MA5C, not MA5D. MA5D is again, dumb 343 logic. MA5B already existed, why did we need the MA5D?

[Op3r8r 10]

So i'm all for the MA5C being in, set for ODST teams or Units based from the Core systems and sent to the front, for it was stated that the UNSC kept all the top gear for the Core systems. leaving the horrible gear for the Out colonies incase the defected. So The Unit's station out in the Outer colonies should be equipped with MA5Bs and Even MA37s if they really are down on their luck unless they were army

MA5B were the standard issue weapons, and therefore it wouldn't make sense, based on that logic, for the outer colonies to have them issued. Last I checked, the MA37 is far older, outdated.

[hkurban 1]

Gentlemen. Halo 4 is set way after this mod takes place, so I'd consider any discussion on H4 era pelicans to be largely irrelevant. I think it's safe to say you won't see it in this mod. Please save the discussion on the practicality of it for somewhere else, as it will add nothing to the mod.

Regarding the rifles, although this contradicts my earlier statements, the B will keep its current design. My intent to change it was in order to address the need to split the MA5 into separate 32 and 60 round versions in order to get the ammo counter working, and since the MA37 isn't in yet, it was my way of solving a problem I had created in the process of solving a bigger problem (lol). There was a small miscommunication within the team about my aspirations there, hence Zero's earlier posts, but we have since amicably deconflicted our creative opinions on how to solve those problems and there's no trouble on the waters for you guys to worry about. The MA5C (and M6 variants I promised) may not make it in to the next update, so I apologize for jumping the gun on that and getting your hopes up. When they do arrive, they will be entirely new models and not modifications of existing meshes like I was doing and as a result should look much better.

Regarding the MA37 in the hands of Marines, I think that was less because Marines took Army rifles and more because Bungie didn't want to have to model and code an entirely separate AR model that would make absolutely no contribution to gameplay and only serve to confuse the more casual players who don't know the AR as anything other than an AR. Realistically, you'd see Marines still wielding MA5s during the Fall of Reach. It's one of Earth's last major strongholds, not some remote colony where weapons and ammo is scarce.

Anyways, continue the healthy debate and speculation, just keep it on topic with the mod's time period and not crazy stuff in the far future of 2558.

[theronnett 15]

It wasn't an M4 during the Vietnam war. So, that's a fallacy. They had the CAR 15 and XM Series, and the La France M16K. M4 didn't actually exist until early 90's, and CAR 15 were still more common by mid 90's.

MA5C, not MA5D. MA5D is again, dumb 343 logic. MA5B already existed, why did we need the MA5D?

Ah, But I use the M4 as a family, not the actual weapon, so it is not fallacy

As you Said,

CAR 15 1966

XM 4 1988

M4 1994

M4A1 2010

Now you have the MA5s

MA5 (MA37) 1st issued in 2437

(Were the A model went, who knows)

MA5B No know issue date, but was in the mid 2440'

MA5C no know 1st issue date

MA5D 1st seen in 2526

Natural evolution of firearms and their family, you seriously going to believe that the UNSC is just going to field 1 model of gun for 100 years, or even 20, with a known flaw of Faulty magazines and firing pins, stated by even bungie when they talked about the MA5C, without Misriah Armory ever trying out new models and designs, that is just silly talk

[Op3r8r 10]

Ah, But I use the M4 as a family, not the actual weapon, so it is not fallacy

As you Said,

CAR 15 1966

XM 4 1988

M4 1994

M4A1 2010

Now you have the MA5s

MA5 (MA37) 1st issued in 2437

(Were the A model went, who knows)

MA5B No know issue date, but was in the mid 2440'

MA5C no know 1st issue date

MA5D 1st seen in 2526

Natural evolution of firearms and their family, you seriously going to believe that the UNSC is just going to field 1 model of gun for 100 years, or even 20, with a known flaw of Faulty magazines and firing pins, stated by even bungie when they talked about the MA5C, without Misriah Armory ever trying out new models and designs, that is just silly talk

I'm simply using the logic you stated gave me to use lol.

[theronnett 15]

Gentlemen. Halo 4 is set way after this mod takes place, so I'd consider any discussion on H4 era pelicans to be largely irrelevant. I think it's safe to say you won't see it in this mod. Please save the discussion on the practicality of it for somewhere else, as it will add nothing to the mod.

Regarding the rifles, although this contradicts my earlier statements, the B will keep its current design. My intent to change it was in order to address the need to split the MA5 into separate 32 and 60 round versions in order to get the ammo counter working, and since the MA37 isn't in yet, it was my way of solving a problem I had created in the process of solving a bigger problem (lol). There was a small miscommunication within the team about my aspirations there, hence Zero's earlier posts, but we have since amicably deconflicted our creative opinions on how to solve those problems and there's no trouble on the waters for you guys to worry about. The MA5C (and M6 variants I promised) may not make it in to the next update, so I apologize for jumping the gun on that and getting your hopes up. When they do arrive, they will be entirely new models and not modifications of existing meshes like I was doing and as a result should look much better.

Regarding the MA37 in the hands of Marines, I think that was less because Marines took Army rifles and more because Bungie didn't want to have to model and code an entirely separate AR model that would make absolutely no contribution to gameplay and only serve to confuse the more casual players who don't know the AR as anything other than an AR. Realistically, you'd see Marines still wielding MA5s during the Fall of Reach. It's one of Earth's last major strongholds, not some remote colony where weapons and ammo is scarce.

Anyways, continue the healthy debate and speculation, just keep it on topic with the mod's time period and not crazy stuff in the far future of 2558.

oh the the pelican debate was just the logic of the design, sucks that the MA5B with be stuck with the MA5C look, that really does blow, I would have loved to see both models in. with marines using the B's and ODSTs using the C's giving the ODSTs a much needed power gain, also with the B's given to the marines, it being to small for a 40mm like the MA37s, it would have put more importance to the M319 Individual Grenade Launcher in fireteams. that is how I saw the logic in having the weapons

MA37's + M319 Army

MA5B's + M319 marines

MA5C's + MA5C/GL ODST, SPECWAR, ONI

kinda like that

Edited May 11, 2015 by Theronnett

[theronnett 15]

I'm simply using the logic you stated gave me to use lol.

sorry, should have said the M4 family, my mom's Husband was former Green beret in Vietnam, did 3 tours, when he say pictures with me with the M4 In Iraq, he was all like, "My little pea shooter became a real firearm" lol